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Isreal and American forces ready to attack Iran within days

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Forgive if last post a bit of rushed post, i'm actually supposedly at work here - what I'm submitting is that going on the ratio (officially) of the US global arms trade 41% to the Russian 17%, it seems far more likely that the US offered the main support. This is a CT thread after all! ;)

    And if you just refer to the boring actual figures relating to the Iran-Iraq war, the US weighed in far behind the Russians and the French in terms of weapons support. Notwithstanding blinkered CT assumptions.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    And yet Russia only accounts for 17% of the global arms trade, whereas the US tops a whopping 41%.

    You do understand that just because I'm sharing my sweets with all of these cool kids, and I've many more bags than Jimmy over there, Jimmy may well be a bigger source of sweets to the nerdy kids? :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    alastair wrote: »
    And if you just refer to the boring actual figures relating to the Iran-Iraq war, the US weighed in far behind the Russians and the French in terms of weapons support. Notwithstanding blinkered CT assumptions.

    Have you got a source for those figures please. I see a few comments back you posted a wikipedia link to back up your claim which is kinda funny really, have you got anything a bit more "trust-worthy".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    alastair wrote: »
    You do understand that just because I'm sharing my sweets with all of these cool kids, and I've many more bags than Jimmy over there, Jimmy may well be a bigger source of sweets to the nerdy kids? :rolleyes:

    :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    WakeUp wrote: »
    Have you got a source for those figures please. I see a few comments back you posted a wikipedia link to back up your claim which is kinda funny really, have you got anything a bit more "trust-worthy".

    Strangely you don't appear to have the same trust issue with IrelandSpirit's wiki links. Funny how that works.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    alastair wrote: »
    Strangely you don't appear to have the same trust issue with IrelandSpirit's wiki links. Funny how that works.

    No I'll tell you whats funny. Everytime I ask you a question you try avoid it and move the goal posts so to speak and throw some comment back at me like the one above.

    Im not intereted in IrelandSpirits wiki links Im interested in your sources you made the comment so go back it up please with something more substantial than wikipedia, thanks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 831 ✭✭✭IrelandSpirit


    alastair wrote: »
    And if you just refer to the boring actual figures relating to the Iran-Iraq war, the US weighed in far behind the Russians and the French in terms of weapons support. Notwithstanding blinkered CT assumptions.


    SupplierTotal Sales in US Dollars (billions)Percent of total salesSource: Richard F. Grimmett, CRS Report for Congress; Conventional Arms Transfers to Developing Nations, 2001-2008 pdf.gif. September 4, 2009
    Notes: Percentages are rounded; Each country shown as follows:
    • bar-blue.png developing countries
    • bar.png industrialized countries
    If you are viewing this table on another site, please see http://www.globalissues.org/article/74/the-arms-trade-is-big-business for further details and context.
    United Statesbar-blue.pngbar.png154.88241%Russiabar-blue.pngbar.png63.82317%Francebar-blue.pngbar.png31.2478%








    Surprise surprise, US 41%, Russia 17%, France 8%, that's the order they still weigh in at. Why should it be any different before/during the Iran-Iraq war? Were US business interests any different back then, or perhaps they were 'bored' of referring to actual figures ...

    BTW, what 'actual figures' are you talking about?


    Edit: graph didn't post as presented in preview mode. Please refer to link http://www.globalissues.org/article/74/the-arms-trade-is-big-business


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Iraq arms imports in US$ (fixed at 1990 value) - 1980-88

    USSR 17528m
    China 4905m
    France 4356m
    Brazil 556m
    Egypt 295m
    Denmark 226m
    USA 201m


    http://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade/html/export_values.php


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair



    Please refer to sweet supply analogy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 831 ✭✭✭IrelandSpirit


    alastair wrote: »
    Strangely you don't appear to have the same trust issue with IrelandSpirit's wiki links. Funny how that works.

    For the record, I use wiki links with skeppies mainly cos from my experience, that's the primary source they trust. (And they call CTers paranoid :pac:)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    WakeUp wrote: »
    Im not intereted in IrelandSpirits wiki links Im interested in your sources you made the comment so go back it up please with something more substantial than wikipedia, thanks.

    You do know about double standards and tunnel vision, don't you?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    alastair wrote: »
    You do know about double standards and tunnel vision, don't you?

    Are you pretending to be a doctor again? Get to the point please.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    For the record, I use wiki links with skeppies mainly cos from my experience, that's the primary source they trust. (And they call CTers paranoid :pac:)

    No paranoia - just amused by the hypocrisy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    WakeUp wrote: »
    Are you pretending to be a doctor again? Get to the point please.

    The point? - you're a hypocrite.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 56 ✭✭Andypando


    A piece from Vetrans Today by Bob Nichols on the realistic nature of building a nuclear bomb.

    San Francisco) Many people are asking if Iran can build a nuclear weapon. The answer is No, they cannot. Iran does not have the tools or material to do so. Some 40 countries would probably like to build a reactor, though, according to the IAEA, the International Atomic Energy Agency. A reactor is the first step to a nuclear weapon. mushcloud-235x320.jpgAn image always associated with a nuke weapon.

    But, the President of the US, politicians in Israel and other important people say Iran “might” be able to build a weapon in a few years. So what? I might like to jump over the moon too; but, it ain’t gonna happen.
    Same thing with Iran building a nuclear weapon. Iran does not have the tools to do so. Iran cannot get them or even make the tools required. Iran cannot even buy the tools. Try calling up Japan Steel and ordering a few tons of Marange Speciality Steel and see what happens.
    Talk is cheap; building nuclear weapons is not. Building nuke weapons is a very expensive, dirty, nasty business. Lots of people talk glibly about building nuclear weapons and have not a clue what they are talking about; only a few people can actually do it. Freelancers, independents and “terrorists” don’t have a chance of doing so. No, building nuclear weapons is an exclusively state run business.
    Here, in a brief Flash video by nuclear reactor expert ‘Ace’ Hoffman, is how nuclear weapons changed the face of America.
    In fact, building nuclear weapons is the kind of big industrial enterprise that can be detected from satellites in outer space. The US has plenty of spy satellites; at least one is “parked” over Iran right now. And, making “small” nuclear weapons is even harder than building 10,000 lb, (4,545 kilogram) Atomic Bombs!
    That being said, two world wide “nuclear capable corporations” as Ann Garrison, my colleague and a noted writer at the San Francisco Bay View calls them, are Bechtel and Halliburton. There actually is a Mr Bechtel, he lives in San Francisco, just down a bit from his old friend “Nuclear Nancy” Pelosi, Speaker of the US House of Representatives. Hmm, San Francisco is quite a small town, actually.
    Anyway, Bechtel Corp runs the privatized US nuclear weapons program and Halliburton runs the equally privatized British nuclear weapons program at the quaintly named AWE, or Atomic Weapons Establishment at Aldermaston, England. There is certainly a lot of money to be made from nuclear weapons and the hand maiden to nuke weapons – nuke power plants.
    True, the only thing nuke power plants actually produce is 1400 plus very radioactive isotopes and they all leak, all the time. One of those is Plutonium 239 or Pu 239 for short. It is entirely made by humans and did not really exist before its tryout detonation at Alamogordo, New Mexico and its Prime Time Debut detonation at Nagasaki, Japan in 1945. Pu 239 makes a thermonuclear bomb, the big ones with no theoretical upper limit on size. It is the man made metal bomb makers crave.


    A live map (I hope) of who is really the dangerous users of what we are told is the technology we should not allow Iran to have.


    http://geraldcelentechannel.blogspot.com/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    alastair wrote: »
    The point? - you're a hypocrite.

    :D

    Im a hypocrite for asking you to back up your figures is that what your saying to me? What a ridiculous thing to say keep in mind all I did I was ask you to back up what you had posted. Also, that link you supplied brings you to a page that says "error". Can you post the relevant page links where the figures are outlined along with the source-links for those figures. From what I can see the site you quoted is an "independent think tank" I would be interested in seeing where they are getting their information from.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 831 ✭✭✭IrelandSpirit


    alastair wrote: »
    You do understand that just because I'm sharing my sweets with all of these cool kids, and I've many more bags than Jimmy over there, Jimmy may well be a bigger source of sweets to the nerdy kids? :rolleyes:

    Yeah, and only way you'd let Jimmy get away with that, is if your sweets were laced with lsd and you wanted Jimmy to take the fall if you got caught ;)

    I can't see the US letting the French (FFS) get the jump on them in arms sales.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 831 ✭✭✭IrelandSpirit


    alastair wrote: »
    Iraq arms imports in US$ (fixed at 1990 value) - 1980-88

    USSR 17528m
    China 4905m
    France 4356m
    Brazil 556m
    Egypt 295m
    Denmark 226m
    USA 201m


    http://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade/html/export_values.php


    Even Denmark sold more arms than the US? WTF??? Am I reading this right? Where on that site are the figures - your link (eventually) worked but only goes to homepage.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 831 ✭✭✭IrelandSpirit


    alastair wrote: »
    No paranoia - just amused by the hypocrisy.

    No, I'd say healthy suspicion, especially if you're the one giving us the 'sweeties' :eek:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    WakeUp wrote: »
    :D

    Im a hypocrite for asking you to back up your figures is that what your saying to me? What a ridiculous thing to say keep in mind all I did I was ask you to back up what you had posted. Also, that link you supplied brings you to a page that says "error". Can you post the relevant page links where the figures are outlined along with the source-links for those figures. From what I can see the site you quoted is an "independent think tank" I would be interested in seeing where they are getting their information from.

    You're a hypocrite for applying a double standard to wiki links - solely based on who references them - yeah. The arms import figures? - Tell you what - you're going to have to do a bit of work on your own - data is generated based on individual queries, you can't link to the resulting page - why don't you knock yourself out - http://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade/page/values.php

    And SIPRI is as credible a source as you'll find anywhere. Sorry about that.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    I can't see the US letting the French (FFS) get the jump on them in arms sales.

    Who said that France sells more arms than the US? They sold more to Iraq over those years. You're not really getting the analogy are you?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    alastair wrote: »
    You're a hypocrite for applying a double standard to wiki links - solely based on who references them - yeah. The arms import figures? - Tell you what - you're going to have to do a bit of work on your own - data is generated based on individual queries, you can't link to the resulting page - why don't you knock yourself out - http://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade/page/values.php

    And SIPRI is as credible a source as you'll find anywhere. Sorry about that.

    What are you talking about double standards for and resorting to name calling it is pathetic grow up. Regardless of what IrelandSpirit posted I'm interested in what you have posted and Im completely within my rights to query and ask you about it. If you are not prepared to back up or discuss what you post, you should not be posting here I would refer you to the charter you should go read it.

    Also, to tell me to go and do and bit of "work on my own" to try and verify something you are saying is quite frankly, absurd so I tell you what, you go get your facts, figures, links, references and sources together and come back to me when you have them, then we can see whether or not what you are claiming is accurate or not.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    WakeUp wrote: »
    What are you talking about double standards for and resorting to name calling it is pathetic grow up. Regardless of what IrelandSpirit posted I'm interested in what you have posted and Im completely within my rights to query and ask you about it. If you are not prepared to back up or discuss what you post, you should not be posting here I would refer you to the charter you should go read it.

    Also, to tell me to go and do and bit of "work on my own" to try and verify something you are saying is quite frankly, absurd so I tell you what, you go get your facts, figures, links, references and sources together and come back to me when you have them, then we can see whether or not what you are claiming is accurate or not.

    Lets make this very simple - you don't dispute the wiki links that someone else provides, but the ones I provide aren't 'trustworthy enough'? That's plain hypocrisy at play there, and there's no way to shine that kind of ****e.

    And yes - if you are genuinely intererested in checking the figures - you'll need to do it yourself - for the reason I've already made pefectly clear. Sorry about that - nothing to do with me. My suspicion - you've already checked and haven't got the balls to admit it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    alastair wrote: »
    Lets make this very simple - you don't dispute the wiki links that someone else provides, but the ones I provide aren't 'trustworthy enough'? That's plain hypocrisy at play there, and there's no way to shine that kind of ****e.

    And yes - if you are genuinely intererested in checking the figures - you'll need to do it yourself - for the reason I've already made pefectly clear. Sorry about that - nothing to do with me. My suspicion - you've already checked and haven't got the balls to admit it.

    Stop bringing what other people post into what Im asking you about you seem to do that quite often it is weak, it doesn't do anything for your argument whatsoever, I asked you about what you posted and was called a hypocrite for doing so.

    The link you provdied prompts you to download information, as far as I'm concerned it is up to you to get all the information required seen as though you are the one making the claims, and come back to me when you have it, really very simple when you do I'll have a look at it. This inlcudes links sourcing their information, thanks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    Back to the topic at hand.

    Ahmadinejad does not fear an attack by the US because according to him they could not even defeat a small army in Iraq.

    http://gulftoday.ae/portal/5f4023aa-4602-472f-b8ef-2da55c28a3b3.aspx


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭Yitzhak Rabin


    For f*ck sake. The two of ye are going around in circles.

    Alastair made a claim. You asked him to back it up. He did. If you won't input the data to confirm what he says, thats your problem. He posted the results in a quote.

    But regardless. The dogs in the street know that the Russians were the main arms suppliers to the Iraqis. Just do a google image search of "Iraqi Arms/Army/Tanks/Weapons" and you will see T series tanks, BRDM 1's and 2's, BMP-1,2, and 3's, AK-47's AK-74's, Draganov sniper rifles, RPK rocket launchers etc. etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    You've been given the figures and source accreditation - and a nice handy link - after asking for something more 'trust-worthy' than wiki - what you choose to do with that info is entirely up to you. Stick your fingers in your ears for all I care - it's just more evidence of your hypocrisy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    yekahs wrote: »
    For f*ck sake. The two of ye are going around in circles.

    Alastair made a claim. You asked him to back it up. He did. If you won't input the data to confirm what he says, thats your problem. He posted the results in a quote.

    But regardless. The dogs in the street know that the Russians were the main arms suppliers to the Iraqis. Just do a google image search of "Iraqi Arms/Army/Tanks/Weapons" and you will see T series tanks, AK-47's AK-74's, Draganov sniper rifles, RPK rocket launchers etc. etc.

    Hang on secod there Yekahs, the link he provided is prompting me to download a file to my pc Im in work atm cant be doing that. Just because he posted the results in a quote doesnt mean they are accurate I would like to see the links this is why I keep asking him to post them saying it is my problem is well ridiculous, no offence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 831 ✭✭✭IrelandSpirit


    alastair wrote: »
    Who said that France sells more arms than the US? They sold more to Iraq over those years. You're not really getting the analogy are you?

    You're claiming that France (and Denmark going by the figures you posted) supplied more arms to Iraq than the US.

    I'm saying I find your claims unbelievable. I'm saying the likelihood is that the US supplied more arms, and I provided you with global arms sales figures to show why I think this to be the case.



    (I'm not wasting my time on any more of your 'sweet' analogies, BTW).


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭Yitzhak Rabin


    WakeUp wrote: »
    Hang on secod there Yekahs, the link he provided is prompting me to download a file to my pc Im in work atm cant be doing that. Just because he posted the results in a quote doesnt mean they are accurate I would like to see the links this is why I keep asking him to post them saying it is my problem is well ridiculous, no offence.

    I'm not sure why it is asking you to download anything. All you have to do is input the data and it generates the results on screen.

    Anyway. I did it, and here is what I got
    TIV of arms imports to Iraq, 1980-1988
    Generated: 24 August 2010
    Figures are SIPRI Trend Indicator Values (TIVs) expressed in US$ m. at constant (1990) prices.
    Figures may not add up due to the conventions of rounding.
    A '0' indicates that the value of deliveries is less than US$0.5m
    For more information, see http://www.sipri.org/contents/armstrad/output_types_TIV.html
    Source: SIPRI Arms Transfers Database
    1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988 Total
    Austria 14 38 38 38 38 24 190
    Brazil 72 36 36 49 77 101 69 41 76 556
    Canada 3 3 4 21 6 12 12 23 85
    China 442 646 935 830 891 968 194 4905
    Czechoslovakia 80 40 40 160
    Denmark 226 226
    East Germany (GDR) 25 25
    Egypt 12 33 58 58 3 14 59 59 295
    France 274 689 633 722 892 644 141 108 254 4356
    Germany (FRG) 26 14 13 25 79
    Hungary 30 30
    Italy 40 50 90
    Jordan 2 2
    Poland 148 49 197
    Romania 62 62 62 185
    Serbia & Mont. 75 2 77
    South Africa 48 48 48 48 190
    Switzerland 8 17 7 35 13 11 90
    UK 44 7 10 7 67
    USA 27 9 9 30 125 201
    USSR 1646 1443 1661 1519 2513 2306 2680 2641 1118 17528
    Total 2090 2518 3099 3417 4620 4027 3895 3927 1941 29534

    Its in a much nicer format if you just input the data yourself.


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