Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

Cool Mo D

nowecant wrote: »

They have already and will continue to limit the amount of traffic on the street by routing it in other ways, e.g. the right turn on St Stephens Green East and Kildare st.

I dont believe that they will ever pedestrainise this street fully, im not sure if they should (and i am a big fan of pedestrainisation). I do however look forward to the change on thsi street on on St Stephens Green North with the addition of the plaza, new paving, wider footpaths, increased planting etc. As an already vibrant area, both during the day and at night I think it will be a huge success.

Really, I think they should use the Luas as an opportunity to make Grafton street and the portion of Nassau street as far as Dawson street 2-way bus/luas only, except for access and deliveries (including no taxis), make Dawson street Bus/Luas and Access only, and have a proper southbound bus lane on Kildare street.

This would make one of the biggest pinch points in the city public transport only. It would also mean that buses could use Grafton street heading northbound instead of Suffolk street, which is just not suitable at all.

LXFlyer

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Really, I think they should use the Luas as an opportunity to make Grafton street and the portion of Nassau street as far as Dawson street 2-way bus/luas only, except for access and deliveries (including no taxis), make Dawson street Bus/Luas and Access only, and have a proper southbound bus lane on Kildare street.

This would make one of the biggest pinch points in the city public transport only. It would also mean that buses could use Grafton street heading northbound instead of Suffolk street, which is just not suitable at all.

Unfortunately, the plan is to remove buses altogether from Grafton Street and Nassau Street between Kildare Street and Grafton Street and have them diverted via Georges Street or Westland Row.

The plan is for a contra-flow bus lane on Kildare Street.

nowecant

Do you have a link to these plans?

LXFlyer

There has been a complete dearth of public information on the impact on bus services of the LUAS extension, other than on an ongoing drip-feed, and most of what I know comes from informal sources.

However, the presentation below does indicate that northbound services will certainly be diverted via Kildare Street and Westland Row.
http://www.slideshare.net/PatrickKing1/rpa-presentation-on-luas-broombridge-bxd-line

I believe that the plan is for Rathmines services to divert via Camden Street and Georges Street.

nowecant

I'm not against the idea of moving buses away from the central spine (O'Connell Street - College Green), I'm just not sure where else they can go. I would however first ban private cars.

I will be interesting to see the effect of the new Rosie Hackett bridge on bus routes, which is opening May 20th, perhaps we might see more southbound services sent down Marlborough street.

AngryLips

Why can't they make Capel Street a bus-only two-way street?

nowecant

AngryLips wrote: »

Why can't they make Capel Street a bus-only two-way street?

They can, they just wont.

stevedublin

AngryLips wrote: »

Why can't they make Capel Street a bus-only two-way street?

because it is too narrow maybe.

Oasis_Dublin

Capel Street over to City Hall, then where?

AngryLips

stevedublin wrote: »

because it is too narrow maybe.

Well it wouldn't be if there wasn't so much on-street parking

nowecant

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

Capel Street over to City Hall, then where?

Either right or left. Left to georges street - thus keeping away from college green and right Werburg street, James street or or towards harolds cross. It would take a significant amount of the buses away from the city centre, and the route is only a 5 minute walk from Grafton street to o connell street.

nowecant

AngryLips wrote: »

Well it wouldn't be if there wasn't so much on-street parking

Which is easily reduced and the street traders would probably welcome all the people getting on and off buses to compensate.

TheBandicoot

nowecant wrote: »

Which is easily reduced and the street traders would probably welcome all the people getting on and off buses to compensate.

hahaha no.

Oasis_Dublin

nowecant wrote: »

Either right or left. Left to georges street - thus keeping away from college green and right Werburg street, James street or or towards harolds cross. It would take a significant amount of the buses away from the city centre, and the route is only a 5 minute walk from Grafton street to o connell street.

A bit like Nassau Street then?

The 11, as an example, is set to run around Trinity, rather than it's current route through Suffolk Street, when the Luas works begin. That's much more central than being brought away up towards Christ Church.

I think there's a desire, and I'm not accusing you of this, but of some people to criticise any public transport project in this city. Capel Street doesn't seem like a solution to me.

George's Street, although more closely aligned to our current example route (11), is already a disaster without introducing another fifteen bus routes.

RahenyD5

Maybe make Capel St northbound for the buses and the southbound buses go down Marlborough St with the trams?

Aard

Did anybody make it to the public consultation on the Dawson St Northbound BXD stop today?

https://www.luascrosscity.ie/about/public-consultation/dawson-northbound-stop-proposal/

Pete_Cavan

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

A bit like Nassau Street then?

The 11, as an example, is set to run around Trinity, rather than it's current route through Suffolk Street, when the Luas works begin. That's much more central than being brought away up towards Christ Church.

I think there's a desire, and I'm not accusing you of this, but of some people to criticise any public transport project in this city. Capel Street doesn't seem like a solution to me.

George's Street, although more closely aligned to our current example route (11), is already a disaster without introducing another fifteen bus routes.

Buses like the 11 could go down Gardiner Street and cross the river at the new bridge or at the Custom House. Using a combination of Capel Street and Marlborough Street/Gardiner Street for north side buses is better than shoving all buses and Luas down O'Connell Street and College Green. It would probably make buses faster (and therefore more attractive) by skirting the centre of the city rather than squeezing through it. The situation with Georges Street would actually be improved by moving routes like 16 to Patrick Street (which seems quite under utilised) by crossing river at Capel Street bridge, turning right at City Hall and then left onto Patrick Street.

It would also mean less duplication of routes. For example; post Luas Cross City, does the 40 need to go from Phibsborough then down O'Connell Street and through College Green? It could go via Constitution Hill and interchange with Luas, allowing passenger change to go to O'Connell Street/College Green, before crossing the river at Capel Street and then taking its existing route from Dame Street. No doubt it would be quicker than competing with Luas/other buses at College Green.

Bus routes should also feed the Luas. Dominic Street would probably become bus and Luas only with buses taking Parnell Street west or Bolton Street to get to Capel Street which would also be bus only. I am not saying that this is exactly what should happen, just that there are other, and probably better, options and moving one Luas track to Marlborough Street and moving a few bus stops wont be enough to alleviate the permanent disruption Luas Cross City will cause.

spacetweek

EIB Investment loan contract signed.

Oasis_Dublin

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Buses like the 11 could go down Gardiner Street and cross the river at the new bridge or at the Custom House. Using a combination of Capel Street and Marlborough Street/Gardiner Street for north side buses is better than shoving all buses and Luas down O'Connell Street and College Green. It would probably make buses faster (and therefore more attractive) by skirting the centre of the city rather than squeezing through it. The situation with Georges Street would actually be improved by moving routes like 16 to Patrick Street (which seems quite under utilised) by crossing river at Capel Street bridge, turning right at City Hall and then left onto Patrick Street.

It would also mean less duplication of routes. For example; post Luas Cross City, does the 40 need to go from Phibsborough then down O'Connell Street and through College Green? It could go via Constitution Hill and interchange with Luas, allowing passenger change to go to O'Connell Street/College Green, before crossing the river at Capel Street and then taking its existing route from Dame Street. No doubt it would be quicker than competing with Luas/other buses at College Green.

Bus routes should also feed the Luas. Dominic Street would probably become bus and Luas only with buses taking Parnell Street west or Bolton Street to get to Capel Street which would also be bus only. I am not saying that this is exactly what should happen, just that there are other, and probably better, options and moving one Luas track to Marlborough Street and moving a few bus stops wont be enough to alleviate the permanent disruption Luas Cross City will cause.

The 11 already goes up and down O'Connell Street. So the 11 wouldn't be "shoved" down O'Connell Street. It would retain its position. Putting the 11 on George's Street, as was previously suggested, would be "shoving" it onto an already packed street. Marlborough Street is certainly more handy, in terms of O'Connell Street, than Capel Street is.

Talk of "luas feeder buses" is ill-conceived until the system allows you to pay for one ticket for all modes of transport ala Vancouver. If I lived in Clonskeagh, as an example, and wanted to get to Phibsboro, I'd be walking to Milltown to get the luas. That's instead of getting the far closer 11. In and around €2 saved by walking and taking only one mode of transport.

I just don't see how Nassau Street is so much worse than Parliament Street. In fact, I don't think it's worse at all!

Why didn't they just put the luas underground, and save everyone the bother?!!

LXFlyer

After much hunting, I finally found the plans for the northbound stop on Dawson Steeet that are currently out on public consultation.

https://www.luascrosscity.ie/about/public-consultation/dawson-northbound-stop-proposal/

nowecant

Seems like the best place to me

TheBandicoot

What kind of content is needed in a submission? Can you just say "I think you should build this stop, it would be very useful." and be done with it?

Sam Russell

I was looking at the plans for the Luas extension and noticed the connection to the red line.

Why does the east-bound line (heading to the point) connect backwards to the (south-bound) Marlborough line? Surely, the tram is going the wrong way at one end or the other - I would have thought it would be the west bound line (from the Point) that would connect to the Marlborough line.

Perhaps I am wrong, but it does look odd.

D.L.R.

lxflyer wrote: »

After much hunting, I finally found the plans for the northbound stop on Dawson Steeet that are currently out on public consultation.

https://www.luascrosscity.ie/about/public-consultation/dawson-northbound-stop-proposal/

Hang on let me get this straight... so they've suggested building the Northbound platform opposite the southbound. Which makes perfect sense.

So
1)what was the northbound location they refused?
2)why didn't they have it in this new location to begin with??

well I suppose you can't have a major irish infrastructure project without at least a bit of daftness.

Telchak

D.L.R. wrote: »

So
1)what was the northbound location they refused?
2)why didn't they have it in this new location to begin with??

I presume the original idea of having the North and Southbound stops at different parts of the street was to allow overtaking when a Luas was stopped.

AngryLips

I thought the original northbound stop was going to be an island stop in the middle of the street? Isn't that the reason it was rejected to begin with because it was felt that the usage at this stop would exceed capacity and force people into the street and tram tracks? This new proposal involves the northbound line changing lanes, why don't they just place the northbound stop round the corner on Nassau street instead where it will naturally meet the street curb anyway?

LXFlyer

Sam Russell wrote: »

I was looking at the plans for the Luas extension and noticed the connection to the red line.

Why does the east-bound line (heading to the point) connect backwards to the (south-bound) Marlborough line? Surely, the tram is going the wrong way at one end or the other - I would have thought it would be the west bound line (from the Point) that would connect to the Marlborough line.

Perhaps I am wrong, but it does look odd.

Quite simply, there was insufficient space for a connection from the westbound line to the southbound. So instead it will have to be from the eastbound line - the tram will head east across the southbound line, stop, driver would switch ends and then head onto the southbound line.


The connections are purely for out of service movements for transfer reasons.

monument

AngryLips wrote: »

I thought the original northbound stop was going to be an island stop in the middle of the street? Isn't that the reason it was rejected to begin with because it was felt that the usage at this stop would exceed capacity and force people into the street and tram tracks? This new proposal involves the northbound line changing lanes, why don't they just place the northbound stop round the corner on Nassau street instead where it will naturally meet the street curb anyway?

Footpath too narrow and busy.

nowecant

They have started some of the tree removal on Dawson Street and College Green. I also seen some of the first tracks have been laid on Hawkins Street as a continuation of what was put down on the new Rosie Hackett Bridge. I believe they had already removed the services from here when they were putting in the bridge footings.

Telchak

Scary picture! Hope care is taken reinstating these at the end of construction