Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

petronius

well we do eventually pay -
but to have the line in the ground on amiens st ready for the point extension would have been as easy as not doing so and a minimally extra cost. Rather than the costs of destroying the one you installed, and dug up, to install a new one and the ensuing traffic jams, closing down that part of the line for 3 months and extra costs in labour etc..
The plan was there for extension - the tenders were out

cabrasnake

Absolutely correct. Just think, how on earth would we manage without hindsight?
It's not as if things can change, and new plans become necessary.

Luckily we didn't make that mistake with tenders out metro north and went ahead and bought swathes of property at bubble prices.
Oh.....wait..........

bk

To be honest, I think the construction of this line is taking a lot longer then it could purely for financial reasons.

The government simply doesn't have the finances to pay upfront for quick building of the line. So instead they are stringing it out over a number of years so that all the charges don't come at the same time.

BowWow

petronius wrote: »

well we do eventually pay -
but to have the line in the ground on amiens st ready for the point extension would have been as easy as not doing so and a minimally extra cost. Rather than the costs of destroying the one you installed, and dug up, to install a new one and the ensuing traffic jams, closing down that part of the line for 3 months and extra costs in labour etc..
The plan was there for extension - the tenders were out

Given that Finglas is the obvious terminus for the Green Line I hope that the Broombridge stop is designed with a future extension to Finglas in mind.

cabrasnake

I heard the terminus will be pointing at Cabra.

BowWow

cabrasnake wrote: »

I heard the terminus will be pointing at Cabra.

Don't think it matters where the "shed" points as long as there is room in future for the line to continue across Liffey Valley and towards Finglas Village. Kinda done like Sandyford.

nowecant

BowWow wrote: »

Don't think it matters where the "shed" points as long as there is room in future for the line to continue across Liffey Valley and towards Finglas Village. Kinda done like Sandyford.

I believe this is the case. However from looking at the detailed plans of the station and end of the line at Broombridge it looks like a very steep raise and a tight angle to get over the canal and railway. It dose not help that on the far side in the Dublin Industrial Estate the ground falls away.

I wounder have they actually thought about how they might achieve this if it is indeed in their plans?

Hootanany

nowecant wrote: »

I believe this is the case. However from looking at the detailed plans of the station and end of the line at Broombridge it looks like a very steep raise and a tight angle to get over the canal and railway. It dose not help that on the far side in the Dublin Industrial Estate the ground falls away.

I wonder have they actually thought about how they might achieve this if it is indeed in their plans?

I'd like to see them detailed plans, where would one look for them?

nowecant

Hootanany wrote: »

I'd like to see them detailed plans, where would one look for them?

http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/

Ill try find the exact ones

nowecant

A top down of the tracks
http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/Downloads/PlanofProposedWorks/01-ALIGNMENT_PROPERTY/27_BXD_P_30_D-0.pdf

North and West elevation of the depot
http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/Downloads/PlanofProposedWorks/02-STRUCTURES/25_BXD_DP_30_C-05.pdf

If you look at google maps at the same time as these and some of the other plans you can see how tight the corner and the rise will be

nowecant

Or these are the best

http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/Downloads/PlanofProposedWorks/02-STRUCTURES/21_BXD_DP_30_C-01.pdf

Hootanany

Cheers for that Brilliant, I saw on the Royal Canal to Broombridge section some Dog Kennels on the line, what will happen to these?
Rear of St Attracta Road.

Oasis_Dublin

Sure we all know the reason they want to stretch out the construction. There are "experts" (in the same way as many Ministers are experts in their respective ministry, and not just former teachers) being employed by the government who want a cushy number for four years, rather than eighteen months. Jobs for the boys can't be limited in any way.

LeinsterDub

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

Sure we all know the reason they want to stretch out the construction. There are "experts" (in the same way as many Ministers are experts in their respective ministry, and not just former teachers) being employed by the government who want a cushy number for four years, rather than eighteen months. Jobs for the boys can't be limited in any way.

Proof?

nowecant

While obviously I would prefer if this was completed sooner im just happy its finally going ahead. At this stage I wish they were actively planning what they could easily do with the 3 lines to make them more useful to the population without spending much money. extension to Finglas i believe would be perfect as it would significantly increase the amount of people with access to the line

petronius

I agree it is vital to make as much use for the BXD line
An extension to a high population area like finglas would be ideal, some imagination and investment needed
But at broombridge the plan should facilitate an extension which would go across the tolka valley (dont limit it by just having the BXD terminus on one side of the western line without having a contigency to bridge/cross the railline)

I actually though there may be an better idea in going through the Dublin Industrial estate and up the centre of the finglas road (you could even continue this to the Airport?

annfield1978

Tender came out for the Design and Build of the LUAS BXD Line

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/rwlproposal_s.asp?PID=69020

Pixel Eater

petronius wrote: »

I agree it is vital to make as much use for the BXD line
An extension to a high population area like finglas would be ideal, some imagination and investment needed
But at broombridge the plan should facilitate an extension which would go across the tolka valley (dont limit it by just having the BXD terminus on one side of the western line without having a contigency to bridge/cross the railline)

I actually though there may be an better idea in going through the Dublin Industrial estate and up the centre of the finglas road (you could even continue this to the Airport?

Is there any point having a light rial system linking the airport though? Would the metro not be a more preferable option?

AngryLips

Porto have a light rail linking the airport

Amirani

AngryLips wrote: »

Porto have a light rail linking the airport

That Porto model I believe is the benchmark that was being used for Metro North. It is pretty much entirely segregated and does go underground at times.

Heroditas

AngryLips wrote: »

Porto have a light rail linking the airport

As does Portland, Oregon. The MAX there is very similar to the LUAS.

FreudianSlippers

Heroditas wrote: »

As does Portland, Oregon. The MAX there is very similar to the LUAS.

I disagree - the MAX is more like an above-ground metro, segregated for the most part (and almost entirely useless for going to the airport). Luas is much more akin to the Portland Streetcar.

HeidiHeidi

Apologies if this is a daft question.....

What's the difference between a Metro and a (say) Luas? Is it capacity? Overground versus underground? Total segregation? Frequency of service? Something else entirely?

I'm always confused by the seemingly linguistic arguments over metro/dart extension/luas etc options that spring up when this is discussed.

cabrasnake

LUAS is a local term. The Dublin LUAS is technically called light rail or tram. A metro is a segregated urban rail system. The planned Dublin metro is technically called light metro as the trains are smaller than 'heavy' rail, but different from LUAS/trams in being totally segregated and capable of higher frequency and longer train sets.
Monument thinks we should be happy to bring back the horse and cart system. This is technically an Equus ferus caballus pulling a 4 wheel wagon. Faster than the green line but smaller carriages.
btw it is a daft question, so you came to the correct forum.

Heroditas

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I disagree - the MAX is more like an above-ground metro, segregated for the most part (and almost entirely useless for going to the airport). Luas is much more akin to the Portland Streetcar.

I have to admit that I wouldn't be too familiar with a lot of the discussions so far on the thread but to an uninitiated eye such as mine, I would have thought the two were quite similar. Certainly the lines meet at several points such as Pioneer Square but it does lack a certain amount of interconnection.
Regarding segregation from traffic, true enough the two modes only intersect at a few points.
Think it's about 25-30mins to Pioneer Square from the airport so while it may be useless (not sure what you mean by this) for other areas in the city, it's still a mode of public transport that goes there.

Doesn't the Streetcar use some of the same lines as the Max? It's been a few years since I was there last!
I actually think I may have been getting them mixed up!

Aard

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

I'm always confused by the seemingly linguistic arguments over metro/dart extension/luas etc options that spring up when this is discussed.

Often the distinction is only linguistic. Even the heavy rail VS light rail VS tram distinction does not cover everything. I like to think of it as a continuum.

cabrasnake

Dyslexic thinking.

cgcsb

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Apologies if this is a daft question.....

What's the difference between a Metro and a (say) Luas? Is it capacity? Overground versus underground? Total segregation? Frequency of service? Something else entirely?

I'm always confused by the seemingly linguistic arguments over metro/dart extension/luas etc options that spring up when this is discussed.

The difference, in Dublin's context is that Metro trams will be wider and longer than luas trams and the metro lines would be Entirely separated from other traffic, where as luas lines interact with other traffic at grade junctions and in the case of the red line, even sharing track with road traffic.

Aard

cabrasnake wrote: »

Dyslexic thinking.

Is that directed at me?

FreudianSlippers

Heroditas wrote: »

I have to admit that I wouldn't be too familiar with a lot of the discussions so far on the thread but to an uninitiated eye such as mine, I would have thought the two were quite similar. Certainly the lines meet at several points such as Pioneer Square but it does lack a certain amount of interconnection.
Regarding segregation from traffic, true enough the two modes only intersect at a few points.
Think it's about 25-30mins to Pioneer Square from the airport so while it may be useless (not sure what you mean by this) for other areas in the city, it's still a mode of public transport that goes there.

Doesn't the Streetcar use some of the same lines as the Max? It's been a few years since I was there last!
I actually think I may have been getting them mixed up!

The streetcar is in the Pearl and around NW/Old Town.

In fairness, the Luas is somewhere between the Streetcar and the MAX. But the max travels much faster than the Luas and is a much bigger train.