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Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

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    #1202
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,852 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    how in gods name is it taking that long to build, came across the below earlier...

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/cheap-european-loans-to-fund-half-of-luas-linkup-costs-29709812.html

    PAUL MELIA – 30 OCTOBER 2013

    HALF the cost of extending the Luas light-rail system in Dublin will be met by way of cheap loans from the European Investment Bank (EIB).

    It has approved loans for three projects in the past week totalling €373m, including Luas, the redevelopment of the Grangegorman campus and a lending package for renewable energy projects to be administered by AIB.

    The money will be made available at cheaper interest rates than currently available, saving millions of euro over the lifetime of the loans.

    Funding has been made available for other projects at 2.3pc. This compares with about 3.5pc if the money was sourced on the international bond markets by the Government.

    The move comes following a visit to Ireland by EIB president Werner Hoyer last April, when he said that a range of capital projects would be considered for investment.

    He said that the bank wanted to be "part of the success story" and was also considering funding a number of transport projects including roads and the expansion of the Port of Cork.

    Details of the loan approvals were posted on the EIB website, just as the State prepares to exit from the bailout in December, and as the Government considers whether it will avail of a €10bn overdraft from the troika to cover spending in the event of an unforeseen crisis.

    The three projects approved by the EIB include the 5.6km Luas cross-city extension, which will mean 13 additional stations and which will allow the existing Red and Green lines to be connected and extended to Broombridge near Cabra.

    The project is expected to cost €326m, and €163m has been made available in financing. The loan was approved last Friday.

    what is the reason for the line splitting, does it not seem a bit mickey mouse?


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    #1203
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,326 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    how in gods name is it taking that long to build, came across the below earlier...

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/cheap-european-loans-to-fund-half-of-luas-linkup-costs-29709812.html




    what is the reason for the line splitting, does it not seem a bit mickey mouse?

    It's a fair time frame considering the complexity of the works and the conditions imposed.

    The reason for splitting is essentially to minimise disruption to Dublin Bus on O'Connell street, the previous administration was more fearful of unionised workers than the current one.

    Also you may ask, why not just have both tracks on Marlborough st then. If you find the answer to that one let me know, I don't think the RPA even know why, they just kinda fancied the idea.


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    #1204
    nowecant
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    cgcsb wrote: »

    Also you may ask, why not just have both tracks on Marlborough st then. If you find the answer to that one let me know, I don't think the RPA even know why, they just kinda fancied the idea.

    Would have been great for that street and the area.


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    #1205
    Banjoxed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    nowecant wrote: »
    Would have been great for that street and the area.

    "Kinda fancied the idea" well not quite. A lot of lobbying by Dublin Bus more like.


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    #1206
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    The reason for splitting is essentially to minimise disruption to Dublin Bus on O'Connell street, the previous administration was more fearful of unionised workers than the current one.

    I don't suppose the administration had any respect for taxpayers on these buses?


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    #1207
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    cgcsb wrote: »
    The reason for splitting is essentially to minimise disruption to Dublin Bus on O'Connell street, the previous administration was more fearful of unionised workers than the current one. .
    :rolleyes:

    That's an argument reduced to beyond the minimum. The project even with the splitting will have a substantial impact on bus operations by many other companies, i.e. Dualway, Matthews Coaches, Collins Coaches and St. Kevin's Bus Service as well as obviously Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann. I suppose An Bord Pleanala were also too unionised to have made what you felt was the correct decision...


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    #1208
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Just for people wondering why the route was chosen. There is an EIS on the Luas Broombridge website (not the "Luas Cross City" site iirc). EIA has to show that alternatives were considered, and the rationale behind the chosen alternative. Fairly straightforward, using a mature assessment process. Unfortunately, there was no SEA done for Luas networks or transport infrastructure afaik, which lets down the side a little.


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    #1209
    grimbergen
    Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭grimbergen


    Some serious digging going on at Stephens Green today - presume it's the start of the utility diversions


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    #1210
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,326 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Finally, I suspect works were delayed slightly to accommodate City Centre business interests over the xmas period.


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    #1211
    carlmango11
    Registered Users Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭carlmango11


    I'm sure it's been answered before but is Broombridge Station going to be renovated in any way as part of these works?


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    #1212
    TheBandicoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭TheBandicoot


    carlmango11 wrote: »
    I'm sure it's been answered before but is Broombridge Station going to be renovated in any way as part of these works?

    It has recently had a clean up, full platform lighting added and renewed fencing and looks a bit better these days.

    The plans also indicate the construction of a footbridge at the east end of the station to help connect the Luas stop.
    http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/Downloads/PlanofProposedWorks/02-STRUCTURES/21_BXD_DP_30_C-01.pdf


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    #1213
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,690 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Anyone know what's happening with a Northbound stop at Dawson St, remember after it was confirmed it wouldn't be included many business decided it might be better to include it. Anyone know if its happening or what stage it's at?


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    #1214
    TheBandicoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭TheBandicoot


    https://www.luascrosscity.ie/whats-the-plan/stops/dawson/
    The original railway order application for Luas Cross City envisaged a northbound and southbound stop in Dawson Street. The Railway Order as made does not allow the northbound platform to be provided. The National Transport Authority has commissioned a study to see if a suitable location for a northbound platform can be found. It is possible that a further application will be made to An Bord Pleanála which would allow a northbound platform to be provided in Dawson Street. The southbound platform will be located on the east side of the street between Nassau Street and Dawson Lane. This stop is well positioned to serve Trinity College as well as the surrounding retail and commercial districts.


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    #1215
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,326 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Quick question. Understandably the project is delayed by utility diversion and maintaining access in the central parts. However I don't see why the main works, track laying, stop building etc. cannot begin immediately on the Broombridge-broadstone section? I suppose the answer is the utilities and main works contracts can't be carried out simultaneously for some reason. Any thoughts?


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    #1216
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,499 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Quick question. Understandably the project is delayed by utility diversion and maintaining access in the central parts. However I don't see why the main works, track laying, stop building etc. cannot begin immediately on the Broombridge-broadstone section? I suppose the answer is the utilities and main works contracts can't be carried out simultaneously for some reason. Any thoughts?

    What'd be the point? Have a section lying fully installed but unused for a while?


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    #1217
    Five Lamps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Five Lamps


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Quick question. Understandably the project is delayed by utility diversion and maintaining access in the central parts. However I don't see why the main works, track laying, stop building etc. cannot begin immediately on the Broombridge-broadstone section? I suppose the answer is the utilities and main works contracts can't be carried out simultaneously for some reason. Any thoughts?

    Possible because the track laying contractor and the steel would only be brought in at a certain point in the project.


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    #1218
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,326 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    MYOB wrote: »
    What'd be the point? Have a section lying fully installed but unused for a while?

    The point being that any snags encountered on that section can be discovered and remedied early, helping to ensure the project is delivered on time.


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    #1219
    nowecant
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    They are getting ready to move the long stone which marks the river Steyn

    http://comeheretome.com/tag/viking-dublin/


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    #1220
    Five Lamps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Five Lamps


    nowecant wrote: »
    They are getting ready to move the long stone which marks the river Steyn

    http://comeheretome.com/tag/viking-dublin/

    Better not leave the space for too long or a private car belonging to a Garda will be parked on the spot.


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    #1221
    Five Lamps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Five Lamps


    cgcsb wrote: »
    The point being that any snags encountered on that section can be discovered and remedied early, helping to ensure the project is delivered on time.

    Would there be snags given the planning that goes in advance?


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    #1222
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,326 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Five Lamps wrote: »
    Would there be snags given the planning that goes in advance?

    there are always snags on large projects.


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    #1223
    serfboard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,680 ✭✭✭serfboard


    cgcsb wrote: »
    there are always snags on large projects.
    FYP ;)


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    #1224
    Geogregor
    Registered Users Posts: 397 ✭✭Geogregor


    MYOB wrote: »
    What'd be the point? Have a section lying fully installed but unused for a while?

    But what is the point of stretching the whole project?

    All around the world when new tram lines are installed the utility works are often done simultaneously with the main track laying and installation works.

    That way you minimize road closures and number of traffic management issues.
    In case if Dublin first for a year or two there will be process of closing streets, digging utilities then repaving those streets ets.
    Than after few months the same streets will be dug again to lay the tram tracks. From the engineering point of view it doesn't make much sense.

    I think that in Dublin splitting the whole LUAS project into "utility phase" and "the main phase" is a pure exercise in deterring money spending.


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    #1225
    Five Lamps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Five Lamps


    Geogregor wrote: »
    But what is the point of stretching the whole project?

    All around the world when new tram lines are installed the utility works are often done simultaneously with the main track laying and installation works.

    That way you minimize road closures and number of traffic management issues.
    In case if Dublin first for a year or two there will be process of closing streets, digging utilities then repaving those streets ets.
    Than after few months the same streets will be dug again to lay the tram tracks. From the engineering point of view it doesn't make much sense.

    I think that in Dublin splitting the whole LUAS project into "utility phase" and "the main phase" is a pure exercise in deterring money spending.

    I recall reading somewhere that in many other countries, they actually don't do this.

    In any case, I don't really see how it actually makes much difference. It's a completely different job to move and relay the utilities than track construction.


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    #1226
    Aemtler
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭Aemtler


    In the Metro Herald this morning

    http://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/launch.aspx?eid=d08c4269-9fed-4afc-89fe-b4d5eb54bee1

    Page 13

    The RPA is having a public consulation on the preferred Northbound stop on Dawson Street.

    European Union House
    18 Dawson Street
    Thursday 27 Feb
    3.30-7.30pm


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    #1227
    TheBandicoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭TheBandicoot


    More detail on event.

    https://www.luascrosscity.ie/news/public-consultation-luas-cross-city-dawson-stop/


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    #1228
    RahenyD5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 96 ✭✭RahenyD5


    Why can't they close Dawson St completely to traffic making it only accessible to trams & pedestrians only also make Kildare St two way? Then there should be room for a northbound stop perhaps?


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    #1229
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    RahenyD5 wrote: »
    Why can't they close Dawson St completely to traffic making it only accessible to trams & pedestrians only also make Kildare St two way? Then there should be room for a northbound stop perhaps?

    There are plans to put in the stop anyway -- to be published soon.

    They can't close it off fully there needs to be a balance to allow for access and bus priority in the area.


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    #1230
    Oasis_Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,467 ✭✭✭Oasis_Dublin


    RahenyD5 wrote: »
    Why can't they close Dawson St completely to traffic making it only accessible to trams & pedestrians only also make Kildare St two way? Then there should be room for a northbound stop perhaps?

    I'm just guessing here, but assumedly it has to do with deliveries for businesses and civic events at the Mansion House.


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    #1231
    nowecant
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    RahenyD5 wrote: »
    Why can't they close Dawson St completely to traffic making it only accessible to trams & pedestrians only also make Kildare St two way? Then there should be room for a northbound stop perhaps?


    They have already and will continue to limit the amount of traffic on the street by routing it in other ways, e.g. the right turn on St Stephens Green East and Kildare st.

    I dont believe that they will ever pedestrainise this street fully, im not sure if they should (and i am a big fan of pedestrainisation). I do however look forward to the change on thsi street on on St Stephens Green North with the addition of the plaza, new paving, wider footpaths, increased planting etc. As an already vibrant area, both during the day and at night I think it will be a huge success.


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