Pairc Ui Chaoimh re-development

who_me

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The other stand is also being completely rebuilt. This nonsense of using the roof off the old stand and putting it on the other side of the pitch is also not true.


Limerick having 2 stadiums (Gaelic Grounds is a concrete monstrosity) is Limerick's problem.

Thanks. That never sounded right to me - that the roof was being 'moved'. I've seen some videos / timelapses of similar redevelopments, and the deconstruction stage is rarely subtle! It'd be far more complex/expensive to move a roof than tear it down and put up a new one.

So the far (North?) stand is being rebuilt too? In a way, that's a bit disappointing - I'd hoped the current plans were just the 1st phase and that stand would be redeveloped to a similar standard to the new stand on the South side. If the North stand is being redeveloped at the same time, it's probably the 'final' design.

clerk

The_Banker wrote: »

When was the last time Limerick was full? Or PUC for that matter?
It is probably a good thing that they werent as neither of the two are fit for purpose.

Well it was packed for the Boss concert and it was unbelievably dangerous leaving the place partly due to stadium design, but more so due to sheer imcompetence by the persons organising the event. Some good work ( bit of common sense ) by An Gardai ( not for the first time down there ) helped to save the Day.

As for a GAA match I can't remember the last time it was sold out, ever since they put juvenile seats in the entire main stand I don't think it has been sold out once.

clerk

The_Banker wrote: »

I would have no problem with the GAA investing money in sports facilities (centre of excellence etc..) but what is happening here is that the stadium is a vanity project for one man.

We here are looking at PUC from a Cork perspective. All stadiums being developed/built should be looked at from a National Perspective but as long as the government keeps throwing money at the GAA this will never happen.

I'd agree with the sentiment of your post.

clerk

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The other stand is also being completely rebuilt. This nonsense of using the roof off the old stand and putting it on the other side of the pitch is also not true.

Good to hear that.

Can anybody tell me how is this viewing area going to work, is the stadium going to be open every night at training ( or part of it ) so we can go up there to watch the training. :cool:

Will our view be obscured by the nets around the pitch ? Will there be seats in this viewing area or is standing room only ? Don't anybody know anything about the logic behind it ? and does any other stadium in the World have this facility ( and l've been to a few - no sign of viewing areas over training pitches ) because I've never seen or heard of the likes of it.

CHealy

The_Banker wrote: »

No, its a GAA problem and because successive Irish governments have been led by (and looked to) the GAA when it comes to stadium development it then becomes a national and a tax payers problem.

Each county wants to develop its own stadium without giving any thought to the over all state or need for stadiums in this country as a whole so we end up with white elephants like Limerick.

When was the last time Limerick was full? Or PUC for that matter?
It is probably a good thing that they werent as neither of the two are fit for purpose.

The Munster Final last year against our good selves was jammed.

kub

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I was saying if the Pairc had been relocated to Tramore Valley Park as some one else thought would be a good idea. Which of course it won't be.

Sorry I thought you were referring to Musgrave Park, or whatever they are calling it now.

AugustusMinimus

I'd be interested to hear people's opinions on where they'd prefer a 45,000 capacity stadium to be located in Cork.

While the Pairc isn't the most accessible by car, it isn't that car from the city centre (15 or 20 minute walk) and it isn't in a residential area unlike, Turners Cross, Musgrave Park and Pairc Ui Rinn.

The planned bridge would help a lot once eventually built.

The_Banker

CHealy wrote: »

The Munster Final last year against our good selves was jammed.

The Attendance that day was 42,730 and the capacity is 49,866. It was the only game in the Munster Hurling Championship that came anywhere near selling out.

The other games in the Munster Hurling Championship in 2013 were...

Clare V Waterford 12,103 (played in Semple)
Limerick V Tipperary 19,507 (Played in Gaelic Grounds)
Cork V Clare 19,054 (Played in Gaelic Grounds)

I am unsure of the attendance at Fitzgerald Stadium for the 2013 football final but lets say it was capacity at 43,900....

That is only two games in the entire 2013 Munster Championchips (both hurling and football) where the attendance went above 20,000...

So we have 4 stadiums competing for roughly two games per year where attendances might actually fill it (and that doesnt include Ennis Cusack Park where the Clare Co Board want to build a bigger better stadium).

Surely ONE state of the art stadium in Munster should suffice?
But no, instead we have each county going off doing their own thing and then we are left with 4 substandard stadiums.

Utter madness

RoyalCelt

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The other stand is also being completely rebuilt. This nonsense of using the roof off the old stand and putting it on the other side of the pitch is also not true.


Limerick having 2 stadiums (Gaelic Grounds is a concrete monstrosity) is Limerick's problem.

where did that rumor come from?

And are they knocking down and rebuilding the terraces or what?

BUNK1982

The_Banker wrote: »

The Attendance that day was 42,730 and the capacity is 49,866. It was the only game in the Munster Hurling Championship that came anywhere near selling out.

The other games in the Munster Hurling Championship in 2013 were...

Clare V Waterford 12,103 (played in Semple)
Limerick V Tipperary 19,507 (Played in Gaelic Grounds)
Cork V Clare 19,054 (Played in Gaelic Grounds)

I am unsure of the attendance at Fitzgerald Stadium for the 2013 football final but lets say it was capacity at 43,900....

That is only two games in the entire 2013 Munster Championchips (both hurling and football) where the attendance went above 20,000...

So we have 4 stadiums competing for roughly two games per year where attendances might actually fill it (and that doesnt include Ennis Cusack Park where the Clare Co Board want to build a bigger better stadium).

Surely ONE state of the art stadium in Munster should suffice?
But no, instead we have each county going off doing their own thing and then we are left with 4 substandard stadiums.

Utter madness

I'm not doubting the validity of your argument with regard to there being no coherent plan around GAA stadia but from a purely Cork-centric point of view, I think a stadium like the proposed PuC development will benefit everyone.

Unlike all the previous examples - Cork City has greater metro population of around 300k and over 500k within the county.

As previously stayed, there are parts of the plan I can't fathom at all but from a Cork GAA/ County/ City need something done with the current site.

D'Agger

I agree with your point about something needing to be done with the current site but the cost is appalling.

If people were told that €35m was being spent then fine but 70 is a ridiculous amount to pump into this area. I'm delighted to see the surrounding area getting a much needed touch up, and the stadium too - it's in a nice location but it's been neglected and looks fairly shoddy from the outside.

My gripe is that there are certainly more areas, stalled developments, roads, infrastructure etc. that would benefit more from government funding than this project.

I mentioned before - there should be a breakdown released of where the funding is going, and how it's reaching a final cost of €70m - does anybody know whether this information is available or whether it can be requested?

clerk

D'Agger wrote: »

I mentioned before - there should be a breakdown released of where the funding is going, and how it's reaching a final cost of €70m - does anybody know whether this information is available or whether it can be requested?

I accept your point of view.

Is the information available ?
To answer your Q I'm not aware that this information is available.

Can it be requested ?
As far as I can tell you'd need to contact the Cork County Board.

D'Agger

clerk wrote: »

I accept your point of view.

Is the information available ?
To answer your Q I'm not aware that this information is available.

Can it be requested ?
As far as I can tell you'd need to contact the Cork County Board.

I imagined that the government would have to release a breakdown of costs regarding their investments or am I being an idealist for believing that tax payers should be able to see where their money is going?

I doubt the county board will disclose that information so the government seems the only possible way of seeing it I'd imagine.

clerk

D'Agger wrote: »

I imagined that the government would have to release a breakdown of costs regarding their investments or am I being an idealist for believing that tax payers should be able to see where their money is going?

I doubt the county board will disclose that information so the government seems the only possible way of seeing it I'd imagine.

I'd imagine the money would be provided by the Govt to the CCB/GAA in the form of a grant with the actual breakdown of the total development with the CCB. Very much doubt the Govt. will release the information and would not have an iota where you would even start in terms of a freedom of information request to the Govt. May have been signed off on the back of a cigarette packet ? who knows.

So I'd say that leaves you with the CCB. Bit of a catch 22.

CHealy

Aside from wheter you agree with this or not, is anyone else sick to death of this "Save Marina Park" crowd? I followed them on twitter and they are by far the most annoying account, constantly retweeting stupid things, its so repetitive I quickly unfollowed them. Someone should tell them how to run a smear campaign cause they are going about it all wrong.

dunleakelleher

rebel.ranter wrote: »

. Also we have no had any concerts down there that I can remember since Oasis in 1996.

erm Bruce Springsteen last year.

Balmed Out

They could have handled that city sports day better and had at least some police at the various junctions. Skehard road was ruined with the lights etc they put in and today goes to show the traffic system has to be examined before Pairc Ui Chaoimh gets used by more and more people.

clerk

Balmed Out wrote: »

They could have handled that city sports day better and had at least some police at the various junctions. Skehard road was ruined with the lights etc they put in and today goes to show the traffic system has to be examined before Pairc Ui Chaoimh gets used by more and more people.

I ran into that, it was bedlam, was sat in the car for 10 minutes on the Skehard Road and there was no move at all leading towards the link. Thank christ l wasn't heading out all the way to the link.

Just goes to show the whole place is a total bottleneck once the volume goes up.

That's one of the main reasons why the other County's don't fancy going to P Ui C.

Balmed Out

I dont think it was ever as bad as yesterday though. The new road layout cant cope with an increase. Still there should have been guards at junctions etc to stop people blocking them.

AugustusMinimus

How did Laura McGonigle's artificial intelligence traffic lights cope yesterday ? Did Skynet achieve consciousness ?

clerk

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

How did Laura McGonigle's artificial intelligence traffic lights cope yesterday ? Did Skynet achieve consciousness ?

To be honest I don't think it was the new layout at the 'disappeared' roundabout that was the issue.

It was more going towards the link was the issue - I was past the new 'traffic' lights and yet there was total gridlock.

It was just basically a tonne of traffic all going out to join the link at Mahon Point at work finishing time. Somethings got to give and we get total gridlock.

But any Day there's a big match on there is huge gridlock going out to the link. It's the only exit for the likes of Tipp/Waterford etc.

If they know the roads ( which the vast majority don't ) you could go out the Borreenmanna Road and swing around on the magic or go through town and out towards the tunnel roundabout that way but basically they'll all hit the roundabout at the tunnel at some stage. Gridlock.

AugustusMinimus

Appeals have been lodged by Save Marina Park against the stadium development.

IMO, I'd have no problem if the centre of excellence had its planning permission withdrawn. No need for it in that location.

AugustusMinimus

clerk wrote: »

To be honest I don't think it was the new layout at the 'disappeared' roundabout that was the issue.

It was more going towards the link was the issue - I was past the new 'traffic' lights and yet there was total gridlock.

It was just basically a tonne of traffic all going out to join the link at Mahon Point at work finishing time. Somethings got to give and we get total gridlock.

But any Day there's a big match on there is huge gridlock going out to the link. It's the only exit for the likes of Tipp/Waterford etc.

If they know the roads ( which the vast majority don't ) you could go out the Borreenmanna Road and swing around on the magic or go through town and out towards the tunnel roundabout that way but basically they'll all hit the roundabout at the tunnel at some stage. Gridlock.

Have 40,000 exiting a stadium at any one time and you are going to have trouble. Worse still when 20,000 of the crowd have essentially all driven to the match from outside of the City.

Dunkettle Interchange will be upgraded in a few years so that's one problem out of the way. The biggest problem is the cross roads at the Shopping Centre. Cork City Council put forward various solutions (slip lane from Mahon Point directly onto the SRR) but the NRA turned them down.

The_Banker

12,000 at todays Cork V Waterford game in Thurles....

Munster crying out for another 45,000 stadium :rolleyes:

rebs23

The_Banker wrote: »

12,000 at todays Cork V Waterford game in Thurles....

Munster crying out for another 45,000 stadium :rolleyes:

How many do you think would have been at it, had it been held in Cork?
How many do you think would have been at it, if there was a modern stadium in Munster?
If there was a modern stadium in Cork (Munster) that had all the associated facilities of a modern stadium, then Cork would get more championship matches and there would be far more fans at games.
Cork fans like myself are sick of travelling to most games.
The lack of foresight on this issue is amazing and yes Munster and Cork in particular needs a modern stadium with a capacity of 45,000.

AugustusMinimus

The_Banker wrote: »

12,000 at todays Cork V Waterford game in Thurles....

Munster crying out for another 45,000 stadium :rolleyes:

You've truly proved your point with such a large sample of games.

If you are moaning about the low attendance, you could also at least have got the right figure considering 16,025 were at the game yesterday.

BUNK1982

The_Banker wrote: »

12,000 at todays Cork V Waterford game in Thurles....

Munster crying out for another 45,000 stadium :rolleyes:

Munster might not need another GAA stadium but Cork certainly needs one.

who_me

I'm not sure I understand the "low attendance at one game far from any major population centre, so let's not build/renovate any stadia in any major population centre" argument..

SpaceTime

I think people also underestimate just how far Thurles is from parts of West Cork.

It's quite fast to get up the M8 from Cork City or anywhere in reach of the M8, but if you're living in West Cork it could take a couple of hours to get to Cork City never mind Thurles. It's an enormous county, larger than half of Northern Ireland for example.

who_me

SpaceTime wrote: »

I think people also underestimate just how far Thurles is from parts of West Cork.

It's quite fast to get up the M8 from Cork City or anywhere in reach of the M8, but if you're living in West Cork it could take a couple of hours to get to Cork City never mind Thurles. It's an enormous county, larger than half of Northern Ireland for example.

Plus, the roads get progressively worse the further West you go. I remember one West Cork TD commenting when he was half-way to Dublin (timewise), he was still in Cork county.

Unless someone can be confident of bringing a lot of big events (knock-out games, big name artists etc.), you're going to be dependent on a large-ish local population, and Thurles doesn't have that.

I've been a Munster season ticket holder for years, and still sometimes I can't be bothered making the round trip to Limerick for every bread 'n' butter league game. And that's from Cork; from my parents' place in Skibbereen is far worse.

I think if the Thurles attendance shows anything it's that people can get tired of travelling.