Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Annabella1

danthefan wrote: »

What did you think of Chris Henry this weekend?

Thought Chris Henry was excellent...very much the 'forgotten man' of Irish Rugby.Interesting to see how he goes in the away match next week.

Annabella1

profitius wrote: »

Murray gave Munster a big boost at the end of last season when he burst on the scene. He can pass, is consistent, is a running threat and has a good rugby brain. Not overrated at all. Its not like what happened a few years ago when TOL burst on the scene. Murray has talent.

His performances this season have not been as good mainly because of the time he takes to get the ball from a ruck. The Munster back play has been terrible this season and the coaches don't have much of a clue whats going on. Its not a great enviornment for young players to be involved in. Mafi has been bad, Barnes has also lost confidence and was playing better in the summer and also looks to have lost a bit of confidence since then.

Against Wales ; Phillips/ Priestland at 1/2 backs it has to be Murray/Sexton for me with Reddan/ROG on the bench.The centre pairing will probably be new against the Welsh monsters:eek:.I don't think DK will experiment too much at 1/2 back

shuffol

Yesterday was the first away HEC game Reddans played in over a year(excuding last years final). He's used to playing in games where Leinsters pack are steamrolling the opposition but that didnt happen yesterday and he struggled. As long as he's on the front foot and hasnt time to think he's as effective a scrumhalf around but behind a retreating back he can be shown up. I think there's an argument for saying Murrays that bit more battle hardened than Reddan due to the job he's had to do this season, with the exception of yesterday Reddans had it pretty easy in most games he's played.

ed7890

shuffol wrote: »

Yesterday was the first away HEC game Reddans played in over a year(excuding last years final). He's used to playing in games where Leinsters pack are steamrolling the opposition but that didnt happen yesterday and he struggled. As long as he's on the front foot and hasnt time to think he's as effective a scrumhalf around but behind a retreating back he can be shown up. I think there's an argument for saying Murrays that bit more battle hardened than Reddan due to the job he's had to do this season, with the exception of yesterday Reddans had it pretty easy in most games he's played.

Ya, Munster have been poor at ruck time a lot this season, so Murray has had to work a lot to keep things going. And last Saturday, he got almost no protection around the fringes. When Munster's forwards are rolling forward and are producing quick ball, Murray can be very quick and keep them going.

I think Murray is very important to Munster, because we don't have an outhalf like Sexton and a backline that works as well together. We use Murray a lot to get moves going, create space and have people running onto ball.

danthefan

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Didn't watch the game, will he be challenging SOB for 7?

Not sure how you'd rate him compared to those 8 minutes of greatness Leamy put in at the RWC but he was excellent, again.

danthefan

danthefan wrote: »

Not sure how you'd rate him compared to those 8 minutes of greatness Leamy put in at the RWC but he was excellent, again.

:round of applause:

jacothelad

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Didn't watch the game, will he be challenging SOB for 7?

Not really. Henry is a very dogged and reliable player who makes a huge number of tackles and is o.k. in attack but not in the same way as SOB.

jacothelad

profitius wrote: »

Murray gave Munster a big boost at the end of last season when he burst on the scene. He can pass, is consistent, is a running threat and has a good rugby brain. Not overrated at all. Its not like what happened a few years ago when TOL burst on the scene. Murray has talent.

His performances this season have not been as good mainly because of the time he takes to get the ball from a ruck. The Munster back play has been terrible this season and the coaches don't have much of a clue whats going on. Its not a great enviornment for young players to be involved in. Mafi has been bad, Barnes has also lost confidence and was playing better in the summer and also looks to have lost a bit of confidence since then.

People keep telling us that Murray is a running threat. When was this? He does make a few breaks and you can see sometimes what he is trying to do but at far too many others he seems to think he can beat his way through around the edge of rucks and mauls. Paul Marshall is a real running threat in comparison. He is incredibly quick off the mark but I wouldn't necessarily want him playing for Ireland.

Murray is playing behind one of the best packs in Europe containing players of the calibre of POC, Ryan, DOC, Du Preez, Botha, O'Mahony, Leamy, MOD and Varley. Are they not capable of providing good ball? If not, why not?

If the Munster back play is bad how much culpability should be assigned to the coaches, or to the players themselves or the half backs. Generally when a team has forwards that win decent ball the half backs are free to be creative and bring the outside backs in to play. Is this not happening? If Murray and ROG are as good as is understood by many, is it simply that the outside backs are crap and Munster need new ones. Missing Jones and Howlett is a big hole to fill. Why have Munster not done so? Jones will be back soon but could they not get a really good SH winger post the RWC?

Benny Cake

jacothelad wrote: »

Murray is playing behind one of the best packs in Europe containing players of the calibre of POC, Ryan, DOC, Du Preez, Botha, O'Mahony, Leamy, MOD and Varley. Are they not capable of providing good ball? If not, why not?

Problem is the backrow really Jaco. Of our current starting backrow only O'Mahony is a contender for a spot in the Irish 22. So many times on second and subsequent phases Murray is isolated at the back of rucks, our continuity play is among the worst in the competition. He is guilty of indecisiveness on occasion but I for one would love to see him get a chance to play in the six nations with Ferris, SOB & Heaslip. Murray has the size, pace and kicking game to be a quality 9, he is still learning at this level & I reckon the 6 nations will bring him on a tonne.

CiaranMT

jacothelad wrote: »

If the Munster back play is bad how much culpability should be assigned to the coaches, or to the players themselves or the half backs. Generally when a team has forwards that win decent ball the half backs are free to be creative and bring the outside backs in to play. Is this not happening? If Murray and ROG are as good as is understood by many, is it simply that the outside backs are crap and Munster need new ones. Missing Jones and Howlett is a big hole to fill. Why have Munster not done so? Jones will be back soon but could they not get a really good SH winger post the RWC?

I'd wager a large sum (if I had one ) that change of backs coach would make a huge difference.

On filling the hole left by Howlett and Jones, I reckon Munster's hands will be tied to an extent with the new NIQ rules coming in, on top of the number of NIQs we already have.

profitius

jacothelad wrote: »

People keep telling us that Murray is a running threat. When was this? He does make a few breaks and you can see sometimes what he is trying to do but at far too many others he seems to think he can beat his way through around the edge of rucks and mauls. Paul Marshall is a real running threat in comparison. He is incredibly quick off the mark but I wouldn't necessarily want him playing for Ireland.

Murray is playing behind one of the best packs in Europe containing players of the calibre of POC, Ryan, DOC, Du Preez, Botha, O'Mahony, Leamy, MOD and Varley. Are they not capable of providing good ball? If not, why not?

If the Munster back play is bad how much culpability should be assigned to the coaches, or to the players themselves or the half backs. Generally when a team has forwards that win decent ball the half backs are free to be creative and bring the outside backs in to play. Is this not happening? If Murray and ROG are as good as is understood by many, is it simply that the outside backs are crap and Munster need new ones. Missing Jones and Howlett is a big hole to fill. Why have Munster not done so? Jones will be back soon but could they not get a really good SH winger post the RWC?

ROG isn't a running threat and that puts pressure on other players. Mafi is not a great 12 either I think. Hes not talented enough to be a good playmaker and too light to crash it up the middle.

Murray seems to be very slow this season but sometimes he does get it out quickly when theres a counter attack on. He seems to be very cautious and waits for everyone to get into position before he passes the ball. After months of it you'd think the coaches would have taken him aside and told him to hurry up. He wouldn't be that slow playing for Leinster or Ulster because the coaches would be telling him to be quicker.

When TOL is playing you're hoping he doesn't make any mistakes, when Murray is playing you know he will make few mistakes. Murray has much more to learn in terms of decision making but I don't doubt his ability.

[Jackass]

I think people under estimate the importance of Mafi to Munster.

Not a whole lot of powerfull runners, but he's one of them.

profitius

[Jackass] wrote: »

I think people under estimate the importance of Mafi to Munster.

Not a whole lot of powerfull runners, but he's one of them.

Running isn't the problem. Munster have plenty of fliers in the team. The problem is the basic skill level of players. Mafi is also poor defensively.

To be fair to Mafi, its hard to play in that team at the moment. Dutchy Holland or McGahan has managed to get Munster play worse than the sum of their (poor enough) parts.

leonard7

Brendan97 wrote: »

1.Healy
2.Best
3.Ross
4.Tuohy
5.POC
6.Ferris
7.SOB
8.Heaslip
9.Reddan
10.Sexton
11.Trimble
12.McFadden
13.Cave
14.Bowe
15.Kearney

sadly this is wishful thinking but would be my team as well with a bench of 16. Cronin 17. Court 18. Ryan 19. Henry 20. Boss 21. ROG 22. Fitzgerald

shuffol

profitius wrote: »

Running isn't the problem. Munster have plenty of fliers in the team. The problem is the basic skill level of players. Mafi is also poor defensively.

To be fair to Mafi, its hard to play in that team at the moment. Dutchy Holland or McGahan has managed to get Munster play worse than the sum of their (poor enough) parts.

Barring the odd good performance the collapse in Mafis form since 09 has been spectacular. He's gone from being as effective a 12 in Europe to struggling to make any positive impact for Munster. He should be in his prime at the moment, maybe he was just too predictable and defences copped on.

Also Munsters pack may be stuffed with familiar names but it managed to go 40 phases against Northampton and barely get over the gainline, compared to Leinster their carriers are very pedestrian, even Toner makes more metres than POC nowadays.

.ak

[Jackass] wrote: »

Stringer had an absolute nightmare cameo for Saracencs when he came on. Was blocked down with a simple box kick, almost cost them the game, and looked completely out of his depth. Nothing left to offer at Heineken Cup level. Was brought in as emergency cover as they only had an academy guy left, now he's benching behind the academy guy...

Think that's a little harsh. Apart from the box kick (which was just plain awful, but the gate wasn't guarded either) I think he had a pretty good quarter. He put plenty of pace on the ball, was very good defensively and swept in a clever manner. If that box kick didn't get charged down he would've had a pretty solid game.

Ofcourse he's going to be benching behind the young guy. That was always going to be. With someone of Spence' calibre is showing promise you play him, you don't bench him behind a 30-something year old SH. :P

chippers

shuffol wrote: »

Also Munsters pack may be stuffed with familiar names but it managed to go 40 phases against Northampton and barely get over the gainline, compared to Leinster their carriers are very pedestrian, even Toner makes more metres than POC nowadays.

Bit harsh on O'Connell, he's in excellent form at the moment. Even when Munster were at the best he didn't make a huge amount of yards. The qualities he brings to the pitch are not based around making a huge amount of yards.

SomeFool

[Jackass] wrote: »

I think people under estimate the importance of Mafi to Munster.

Not a whole lot of powerfull runners, but he's one of them.

I actually think he's awful. He has completely stagnated since Tipoki left. I'd have Keatley, Barnes or even Hurley at 12 ahead of him.

thomond2006

I'm sick of this myth that Mafi's form took a nosedive when he didn't play inside Tipoki.

Mafi's best season was in fact 08/09 when he was probably the Heineken Cup's best 12. From October to April he was excellent every week, at his explosive best. That season, he started only one European game with Tipoki, who spent most of the season out injured.

SomeFool

I think what most people mean about Tipoki was his leaving Munster left Mafi without his mentor in a way, not that he was a better player because he was on the pitch. Mafi is not exactly a leader in the team and Tipoki was good support for him.

shuffol

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'm sick of this myth that Mafi's form took a nosedive when he didn't play inside Tipoki.

Mafi's best season was in fact 08/09 when he was probably the Heineken Cup's best 12. From October to April he was excellent every week, at his explosive best. That season, he started only one European game with Tipoki, who spent most of the season out injured.

Yeah himself and Earls were electric in 08/09, his best game probably being in the hammering of Ospreys in the HEC quarter final. Since then his level of performances have fallen off a cliff with the exception of last years Magners League final.

irishbucsfan

No squad today then....

CIARAN_BOYLE

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No squad today then....

supposed to be tomorrow

irishbucsfan

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No squad today then....

supposed to be tomorrow

DONT TELL ME IT'S STILL TUESDAY

Burgo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

DONT TELL ME IT'S STILL TUESDAY

Thanks you've just ruined my friday :mad:

leonard7

Donnacha is also 6'6 so would definitely have the height for it with the 6'6 paul jeremiah o'connell beside him but could do with an extra half stone on him i reckon

ormond lad

Sportsfan1984 wrote: »

Donncha Ryan has the potential to be a world class second row. There has been lots of talk recently on how Ireland should move somebody like Stephen Ferris into the row as the likes of New Zealand played Brad Thorn in the row. I think Ryan would be a better fit than Ferris in the 2nd row, but he still posseses some of the qualities of a 6, which is ideal. Also, you want Ferris in the loose as much as possible. Ryan is hugely physical, very quick and very aggressive - a great mix. He should definitely get the nod alongside O'Connell for 6 Nations in my view. Toner also has his best game for Leinster I thought on Sunday in Glasgow although he he is not quite there yet in terms of international standard.

leonard7 wrote: »

Donnacha is also 6'6 so would definitely have the height for it with the 6'6 paul jeremiah o'connell beside him but could do with an extra half stone on him i reckon

Donnacha Ryan is already the heaviest and tallest 2nd row in munster,
source so he doesnt need to put on half a stone
Ferris aint a 2nd row, he's one of our best back rows so why move him from there

leonard7

i used a different source apologies ormond lad but it said he was just under 17 where i checked but yeh have doublechecked

the munster site says he is just under 17 sst

d-gal

Ryan is going to be so important for Ireland this year. He is so aggressive around the ruck area and is getting more confident with ball in hand.
Putting Ferris in the 2nd row is one of the stupidest comments made by some posters. He is our best backrow and with a hopefully injury free year will be the best in the world.

Neil3030

Toner is an interesting case given his height. The consensus was always that he needed to bulk up, and he has done a good job getting himself to the 19 stone mark. However there is only so much further that he can conceivably go, both in terms of his own physical limitations, and also in terms of being liftable in the line-out. An extra stone or two would certainly help him around the field, but the trade off there is that he is then over 20 stone, and no matter how gangly he may look, 20 stone is 20 stone! Were he to bulk out to this size, I would wonder if they could get him up quickly enough in the line-out, where split seconds count so pivotally.