Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Foxtrol

I’m worried about this place if this rumour turns out to be totally wrong, we really didn’t need this shred of hope...

geekington

Playing South Africa as a full back you know the ball is coming your way a lot - hence Kerney being MOM in Croke Park a few years ago as he didn't drop one.

Zebo will be expecting this and from all the football I've seen him play over the past number of years his is generally very strong under the high ball. That said, South Africa's kicking chase is one of their strong points so he only needs to drop one or two for us to be in trouble! I'm more than happy to give it a go though...

Given Earl's form at 13 this year, I'd take Zebo at full back over D. Hurely / Jones on current form so its not as strange a pick as you'd expect! Cave is very unlucky and considering Earls hasn't played since returning from injury this is a bit of a risk!

errlloyd

If someone can find me a post from September or earlier suggesting zebo at bullback id be veryimpressed. As far as i can tell he made a few kicks in a munster game a few weeks ago, the commentator said "he has a huge left boot", and everyone in Ireland just thought, "he can kick, run and catch, hes a fullback". Course there is no evidence hell be a capable tackler, decision maker or have good positioning. And we have no idea how hes going to enter the attacking line or what hes gonna do there.

This is ridiculous, the entire reason we have centrally run provinces is so we can experiment with these things in rabo games. International tests are not the time for handing people there third or fourth caps in positions theve never played. Im not even anti munster here, gimme earls, hurley or jones. All three of which Munster would start at 15 ahead of zebo.

/Rant

CatFromHue

I have to say I'm excited to see how Zebo will play at full back.

Himself, Bowe, and Trimble make an exciting back three for me. All look for work and try and get involved as much as possible so I'm looking forward to this if it's true.

I think Earls proved a lot of doubters wrong in the few games he played 13 for Ireland last season. Certainly for me he did little wrong except for an incident in the first test against NZ so I'm happy with him to continue his run at 13. His pace excites me :O

.ak

Fishooks12 wrote: »

TBH I'd have DOC benching anyway, not that I mind McCarthy in the slightest.

The captain makes a good point about ROG. While we'd all probably have Jackson benching, I really wouldn't like to see him thrown into the fire 5 minutes into the game against the boks if Sexton gets injured! Not the nicest way to start an International career!

If you can't start your international career coming off the bench to a tier 1 nation, then when can you?

We only play Italy once a year....

jacothelad

JRant wrote: »

Sure am fishooks, although Fez's injury is not as bad as first thought, thankfully.
Purely going with the form guide;
I'd have Cave at 13, moving Earls to fullback.
Marshall at 9, although there's a strong case for Reddan to partner Sexton.
Henderson's been the form 6 this season.
Touhy (or McCarthy) over a patiently unfit POC.
Court ahead of Mr Bent.

Not Court at 3 ffs. And what has Kilcoyne done exactly apart from be reasonable in his 5 starts for Munster this season? He has been encouraging in his play but he has also had games against crap sides. 2 games against an awful Embra pack who couldn't scrummage against a pack of Brownies, Zebre, Treviso. Neither he nor Henderson should be even considered as starting options. People are getting a bit oversexed about Henderson who has been pretty good but he hasn't been outstanding. Both look certain future players but what about a touch of common sense lads. There is a time to throw caution to the winds of fate. I would suggest that when BOD, Best, Fez et al are missing this isn't the time. The only exception to this would be to give ROG his gold watch and bench Jackson, Keatley or Madigan.

totallegend wrote: »

Rumoured where?

I would have major concerns re the selection of Zebo at FB but maybe they've been running him there during training; it would be very interesting one way or the other and if nothing else, it's not a conservative call...

And I'm sorry, but in what parallel universe has Kilcoyne done enough to get ahead of Court?

In Father Dougal Declan Kidney's.

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think there's that much of a gap either way.

Think Zebo at 15 could be quite interesting alright. Happier to see us take some risks after 4 years of dullness to be honest.

If Zebo turns out to be a great full back, imagine the counter attacking ability of he and Gilroy working together. A very exciting prospect

.ak

CatFromHue wrote: »

I have to say I'm excited to see how Zebo will play at full back.

Himself, Bowe, and Trimble make an exciting back three for me. All look for work and try and get involved as much as possible so I'm looking forward to this if it's true.

I think Earls proved a lot of doubters wrong in the few games he played 13 for Ireland last season. Certainly for me he did little wrong except for an incident in the first test against NZ so I'm happy with him to continue his run at 13. His pace excites me :O

I don't have a problem with Earls at 13, he's more than capable... I just think Cave is capable of a lot more there.

I also think Earls is far more exciting at 15.

I'd be a little worried about Zebo at 15 tbh.. I think Trimble and Bowe will be covering for him all day.

Also, has Zebo played 15 for Munster yet?

danthefan

Court has been left out altogether apparently, I think that's a good call. Been quite impressed by Kilcoyne and Court has never gone beyond ordinary for Ireland.

Fishooks12

errlloyd wrote: »

If someone can find me a post from September or earlier suggesting zebo at bullback id be veryimpressed. As far as i can tell he made a few kicks in a munster game a few weeks ago, the commentator said "he has a huge left boot", and everyone in Ireland just thought, "he can kick, run and catch, hes a fullback". Course there is no evidence hell be a capable tackler, decision maker or have good positioning. And we have no idea how hes going to enter the attacking line or what hes gonna do there.

This is ridiculous, the entire reason we have centrally run provinces is so we can experiment with these things in rabo games. International tests are not the time for handing people there third or fourth caps in positions theve never played. Im not even anti munster here, gimme earls, hurley or jones. All three of which Munster would start at 15 ahead of zebo.

/Rant

Very cynical view of your fellow posters there.

It's obvious Zebo has a very good boot. That's been obvious long before this year. Same with his security under a high ball. Read back through the Munster thread and you'll see people talking about it long before the Edinburgh game

Also, there's plenty of evidence he's a good decision maker. You rarely see Zebo attack when it's not on or kick when he can run. And there's also plenty of evidence that his defense has improved this year. And that's ignoring the fact that a fullback can often afford to be a weaker defender than a winger.

Questioning where he will join the line from is a bit ludicrous considering Zebo plays a game for Munster where he often steps in at first receiver and pops up all over the park. He doesn't just hang out on the wing. I seriously doubt his attacking strategy would be a problem at 15

He's got the entire skillset for 15. My one worry would be his mentality starting a game there against the Bok's. But from what I've seen of Zebo before, he's a hugely confident player

.ak

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

What other Ulster players should be involved? Best and Ferris would be definite starters if fit, but they aren't.

Is Tuohy better than Ryan? No.
Is Tuohy in better form than McCarthy(or DOC)? No, but I would pick the younger Tuohy.
Is Henderson better than POM and has he shown himself ready to step up? Too soon to ask, but probably not.
Is Marshall better than Murray/Reddan? No.
Is Jackson better than Sexton? No.
Are Marshall or Wallace better than D'Arcy? No.
Is Cave better than Earls? No.
Is Cave a better bench option than McFadden? No.
Is Gilroy better than Zebo? No.

The only dubious call would be Kilcoyne ahead of Court, but its pretty much the same situation as Henderson ahead of McLoughlin.

People will imagine issues with any team that Kidney picks. Its not really a problem with the team picked, its poster's problems with the man in charge.

Just on your points... What's your reasoning for saying X player is not better than X? Aren't Ulster the best Irish team at the moment? Surely the players are playing a huge part in that?

irishbucsfan

IF Court is not involved I'd be quite worried about the prospect of Healy getting injured.

Kilcoyne has not proven himself a great scummager yet.

.ak

irishbucsfan wrote: »

IF Court is not involved I'd be quite worried about the prospect of Healy getting injured.

Kilcoyne has not proven himself a great scummager yet.

True, but he's excellent in the loose. The issue is, as you say, Healy is carrying a shoulder injury, and there's a good chance the SA front row will squeeze spinal cords from the very first scrum.

Fishooks12

Kilkoyne is a better option off the bench for impact. But I'll **** bricks if Healy gets injured and Kilcoyne has to face a fresh Bok scrum in his debut

Quint2010

thomond2006 wrote: »

15. Zebo
14. Bowe
13. Earls
12. D'Arcy
11. Trimble
10. Sexton (capt)
9. Murray

1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. POC
6. POM
7. Henry
8. Heaslip


16. Cronin
17. Kilcoyne
18. Bent
19. McCarthy
20. Henderson
21. Reddan
22. Jackson
23. McFadden

Sorry but I just can't see it. Kidney picking players on form? Being innovative? Dropping ROG and DOC? Hope I am wrong but not going to happen

irishbucsfan

.ak wrote: »

True, but he's excellent in the loose. The issue is, as you say, Healy is carrying a shoulder injury, and there's a good chance the SA front row will squeeze spinal cords from the very first scrum.

Court is excellent in the loose as well. I'd just prefer it if Kilcoyne had a bit more of a track record to go on.

danthefan

Quint2010 wrote: »

Sorry but I just can't see it. Kidney picking players on form? Being innovative? Dropping ROG and DOC? Hope I am wrong but not going to happen

There's nothing close to confirmation ROG and DOC have been dropped. I'd expect both to be in the squad.



The guy has also mentioned that BOD's days as Ireland captain might be over.

accidentprone1

Just checked this thread out again since yesterday. Somewhere along the way we seem to have accepted that the rumoured team is the one that will play. There'll be tears come Thursday I fear...

leftleg

Thornley alert

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1106/1224326180528.html

"Or course it would have been preferable if Bent had some game time with Leinster, but quite why Irish rugby has to be purer than the driven snow on this issue is a moot point. Never mind Italy or England, but not even New Zealand are shy about picking Tongans, Samoans or Fijians."

what lazy lazy journalism; if anything nz export there players to other countries more than any other nation. terrible stuff altogether. awful article. well done Gerry.

Fishooks12

leftleg wrote: »

Thornley alert

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1106/1224326180528.html

"Or course it would have been preferable if Bent had some game time with Leinster, but quite why Irish rugby has to be purer than the driven snow on this issue is a moot point. Never mind Italy or England, but not even New Zealand are shy about picking Tongans, Samoans or Fijians."

what lazy lazy journalism; if anything nz export there players to other countries more than any other nation. terrible stuff altogether. awful article. well done Gerry.

They do in their arse

danthefan

Fishooks12 wrote: »

They do in their arse

Wrong.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Born-here-to-play-there-RWC-2011-squads-chocker-with-Kiwis/tabid/1534/articleID/224687/Default.aspx

Fishooks12

danthefan wrote: »

Wrong.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Born-here-to-play-there-RWC-2011-squads-chocker-with-Kiwis/tabid/1534/articleID/224687/Default.aspx

ah, back in my box I go

NZ haven't been shy about picking Islanders in the past though.

Foxtrol

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Court is excellent in the loose as well. I'd just prefer it if Kilcoyne had a bit more of a track record to go on.

He's done well enough in a few games, has potential to be a very good player and plays for Munster - that's all the track record needed for DK to fast track a player into the Irish squad.

Fishooks12

Foxtrol wrote: »

He's done well enough in a few games, has potential to be a very good player and plays for Munster - that's all the track record needed for DK to fast track a player into the Irish squad.

Well enough in a few games is a bit of a disservice. Along with Zebo and DOC I think he's been our best players this year

danthefan

Fishooks12 wrote: »

ah, back in my box I go

NZ haven't been shy about picking Islanders in the past though.

I'm not arsed looking for a link but it was the exact same in 2007 too.

Fishooks12

danthefan wrote: »

I'm not arsed looking for a link but it was the exact same in 2007 too.

Can you not just let a man climb out of his hole gracefully!

JustinDee

Fishooks12 wrote: »

They do in their arse

You'll be hard pressed not to find any Pacific Islands teams over the years, including current, without at least half of their teamsheet being Kiwis.

geekington

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Kilkoyne is a better option off the bench for impact. But I'll **** bricks if Healy gets injured and Kilcoyne has to face a fresh Bok scrum in his debut

I wince at this thought - I don't think I've ever watched a match that Healy hasn't required some treatment - I like you be bricking it if he goes down early!

JRant

jacothelad wrote: »

Not Court at 3 ffs. And what has Kilcoyne done exactly apart from be reasonable in his 5 starts for Munster this season? He has been encouraging in his play but he has also had games against crap sides. 2 games against an awful Embra pack who couldn't scrummage against a pack of Brownies, Zebre, Treviso. Neither he nor Henderson should be even considered as starting options. People are getting a bit oversexed about Henderson who has been pretty good but he hasn't been outstanding. Both look certain future players but what about a touch of common sense lads. There is a time to throw caution to the winds of fate. I would suggest that when BOD, Best, Fez et al are missing this isn't the time. The only exception to this would be to give ROG his gold watch and bench Jackson, Keatley or Madigan.



In Father Dougal Declan Kidney's.



If Zebo turns out to be a great full back, imagine the counter attacking ability of he and Gilroy working together. A very exciting prospect

Well my argument would be that we need to get some player development going asap.
The 6N's the bread and butter for us yet we're always one or two injuries from a crisis during it.
It's to late now to be solely concentrating on ranking points. BOD, POC and a few others don't have to much left in the tank and getting them all fit at the same time is becoming increasingly harder.
Kilcoyne over Court against the Boks is probably a bigger gamble than Zebo at 15. If its a slippy day and we handle the ball the way we have been recently, it could be a long day with him coming on early for a half fit Healy.

thomond2006

Aye, Kahn Fotuali'i was born in NZ is one example I know of, there's plenty more.

Foxtrol

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Well enough in a few games is a bit of a disservice. Along with Zebo and DOC I think he's been our best players this year

Ok let’s put it this way he has not performed better than those who Kidney has in the past ignored despite at the time being much more experienced than Kilcoyne is at present.