Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Cpt_Blackbeard

JRant wrote: »

3 starters from probably the form team in Europe, muhahahaha.
If it wasn't DK in charge I actually might care.
Roll on June 2013.

What other Ulster players should be involved? Best and Ferris would be definite starters if fit, but they aren't.

Is Tuohy better than Ryan? No.
Is Tuohy in better form than McCarthy(or DOC)? No, but I would pick the younger Tuohy.
Is Henderson better than POM and has he shown himself ready to step up? Too soon to ask, but probably not.
Is Marshall better than Murray/Reddan? No.
Is Jackson better than Sexton? No.
Are Marshall or Wallace better than D'Arcy? No.
Is Cave better than Earls? No.
Is Cave a better bench option than McFadden? No.
Is Gilroy better than Zebo? No.

The only dubious call would be Kilcoyne ahead of Court, but its pretty much the same situation as Henderson ahead of McLoughlin.

People will imagine issues with any team that Kidney picks. Its not really a problem with the team picked, its poster's problems with the man in charge.

irishbucsfan

Fishooks12 wrote: »

tbh if that's the team and bench it's perfect. Who would you change?

Some people would want Cave at 13 with Earls at 15. I think there's an argument for that but I'd still prefer Earls at 13 myself.

And also Tuohy and Court involved I suppose. I think there's a strong argument against both of those players though for this game.

Fishooks12

I think McCarthy and DOC are in better form than Touhy right now so I don't think he deserves the bench spot.

Cave and Court are the only Ulster players who might feel aggrieved. But I think Earl's is a better option at 13 and Kilcoyne a better option off the bench (although Court would be a better player to start given his experience)

Ulster would have 5 starting bar injury remember

JRant

Fishooks12 wrote: »

tbh if that's the team and bench it's perfect. Who would you change?

Plus I'm sure you're aware that Ferris and Best would have started bar injury, bringing Ulster's total up to 5, a third of the team. So saying Ulster are being ignored isn't fair

Sure am fishooks, although Fez's injury is not as bad as first thought, thankfully.
Purely going with the form guide;
I'd have Cave at 13, moving Earls to fullback.
Marshall at 9, although there's a strong case for Reddan to partner Sexton.
Henderson's been the form 6 this season.
Touhy (or McCarthy) over a patiently unfit POC.
Court ahead of Mr Bent.

JRant

Fireball07 wrote: »

Payne- NIQ
Bowe- Playing
Cave- Has a case, I'd start him. Can count himself unlucky
Wallace- Getting on at this stage, never going to start ahead of D'Arcy
Trimble- Playing
Jackson- On the bench, not in the same class as Sexton yet
Marshall- In decent enough form, but not he's about the same level as Murray/Reddan
Williams- NIQ
Henry- Playing
Ferris- Injured
Tuohy- Never going to start ahead of POC, tight with Ryan/DOC/McCarthy. Not that surprising imo
Afoa- NIQ
Best- Injured
Court- Not as good as Healy


Cave is unlucky, I think...Marshall perhaps. Think that team is pretty encouraging tbqh.


EDIT: I realised I somehow included Marshall ahead of Pienaar there...I do think that counts against him a bit, deservedly or not.

Fair comment.
I think Wallace has been playing better than Darcy this season but there's no hope at this stage of him getting near the team.
You left Henderson out as well!!!
Anyhow it doesn't matter a jot what team is picked unless a leopard can really change its spots.

Fireball07

JRant wrote: »

Fair comment.
I think Wallace has been playing better than Darcy this season but there's no hope at this stage of him getting near the team.
You left Henderson out as well!!!
Anyhow it doesn't matter a jot what team is picked unless a leopard can really change its spots.

I don't disagree with the Wallace thing but if we're going to replace D'Arcy, I'd rather it be with Marshall than Wallace tbh.


And I only left out Henderson because I don't think he starts in a strongest Ulster fifteen.

And the team mightn't play a brand of rugby we want to see, but we can't be 100% sure of that yet...the fact is it's a bit unfair to criticise Kidney for this selection when it's very close to what we (collectively) wanted.

Ciaran-Irl

JRant wrote: »

Sure am fishooks, although Fez's injury is not as bad as first thought, thankfully.
Purely going with the form guide;
I'd have Cave at 13, moving Earls to fullback.
Marshall at 9, although there's a strong case for Reddan to partner Sexton.
Henderson's been the form 6 this season.
Touhy (or McCarthy) over a patiently unfit POC.
Court ahead of Mr Bent.

So, to be clear, if Fez/Best/Fitzpatrick were fit, your starting team would have Trimble, Bowe, Cave, Marshall, Ferris, Henderson, Tuohy, Henry & Best, with Court, Fitzpatrick, Gilroy & Jackson on the bench.

Ulster have had a great start to the season, but lets see if they keep it up and win some trophies first before replacing two thirds of the team. Henderson has had all of what, 5 starts now? I'm delighted he is on the bench, but lets not get ahead of ourselves. If Marshall can start the big games consistently and perform, then I'll be all for his starting for Ireland.

JRant

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

What other Ulster players should be involved? Best and Ferris would be definite starters if fit, but they aren't.

Is Tuohy better than Ryan? No.
Is Tuohy in better form than McCarthy(or DOC)? No, but I would pick the younger Tuohy.
Is Henderson better than POM and has he shown himself ready to step up? Too soon to ask, but probably not.
Is Marshall better than Murray/Reddan? No.
Is Jackson better than Sexton? No.
Are Marshall or Wallace better than D'Arcy? No.
Is Cave better than Earls? No.
Is Cave a better bench option than McFadden? No.
Is Gilroy better than Zebo? No.

The only dubious call would be Kilcoyne ahead of Court, but its pretty much the same situation as Henderson ahead of McLoughlin.

People will imagine issues with any team that Kidney picks. Its not really a problem with the team picked, its poster's problems with the man in charge.

That, good sir, is only your opinion.
IMO
Tuohy should be ahead of DOC.
Henderson has been playing better than POM this seaon.
Marshall has been playing better than Murray.
Cave is a better 13 than Earls.
Gilroy is most certainly as good as Zebo in my book.
These are just my opinions though.

Regarding the issues around team selection, I'm fully aware there will always be disagreement amounst us supporters as to their favoured line-up. But you must admit the armchair ride given to some players is a tad annoying and adds fuel to any fire.
And yes I have a serious problem with the man in charge, his policies over selections and gameplan, his attrocious win/loss ratio at a time when Irish rugby has never had it so good, his contempt for Irish rugby fans to not even have the courtesy to answer any valid questions without speaking in riddles and our awful home record under his tenure. Will that do?

JRant

Fireball07 wrote: »

I don't disagree with the Wallace thing but if we're going to replace D'Arcy, I'd rather it be with Marshall than Wallace tbh.


And I only left out Henderson because I don't think he starts in a strongest Ulster fifteen.

And the team mightn't play a brand of rugby we want to see, but we can't be 100% sure of that yet...the fact is it's a bit unfair to criticise Kidney for this selection when it's very close to what we (collectively) wanted.

Yeah, there'd be little point replace Darcy with another 'senior' player at this stage, time to build really.

I think if Henderson keeps playing the way he is, Ulster are going to find it very hard to drop him. Especially considering Ferris has very little rugby left in him if we're being honest.

I'd love to believe that about DK but at this stage I've given up and just want him gone. 3 years of tripe has broken the spirit I'm afraid.

JRant

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

So, to be clear, if Fez/Best/Fitzpatrick were fit, your starting team would have Trimble, Bowe, Cave, Marshall, Ferris, Henderson, Tuohy, Henry & Best, with Court, Fitzpatrick, Gilroy & Jackson on the bench.

Ulster have had a great start to the season, but lets see if they keep it up and win some trophies first before replacing two thirds of the team. Henderson has had all of what, 5 starts now? I'm delighted he is on the bench, but lets not get ahead of ourselves. If Marshall can start the big games consistently and perform, then I'll be all for his starting for Ireland.

Well it would be Ferris or Henderson really. Yes, an arguement could be made for all those players. Why not? it's not like the current bunch are world beaters or anything of the sort. If somethings not working it's downright lunacy to keep replicating it.

CIARAN_BOYLE

JRant wrote: »

Court ahead of Mr Bent.

Court as the TH cover???? I could see an argument for Court ahead of Kilcoyne but imo asking him to cover TH with 23 man squads is joke

JRant

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Court as the TH cover???? I could see an argument for Court ahead of Kilcoyne but imo asking him to cover TH with 23 man squads is joke

Fair enough, I know Court got mullered last time out at TH but how do we know Bent is any good at TH either? It's not like he was pulling up trees during the Super rugby season and we've not seen him play a single game in this country yet.
With Fitzpatrick out surely somebody like Hagan could have been given a try out instead.

Mr.Opti

JRant wrote: »

That, good sir, is only your opinion.
IMO
Tuohy should be ahead of DOC.
Henderson has been playing better than POM this seaon.
Marshall has been playing better than Murray.
Cave is a better 13 than Earls.
Gilroy is most certainly as good as Zebo in my book.
These are just my opinions though.

Very biased opinion though!! And i think most people would agree with the below:-

No way is Cave a better 13 then Earls & Zebo is much better then Gilroy.

Tuohy should be given some time in the AI's.

totallegend

Mr.Opti wrote: »

Very biased opinion though!! And i think most people would agree with the below:-

No way is Cave a better 13 then Earls & Zebo is much better then Gilroy.

Tuohy should be given some time in the AI's.

Gilroy is better than Zebo.

danthefan

Fishooks12 wrote: »

TBH I'd have DOC benching anyway, not that I mind McCarthy in the slightest.

The captain makes a good point about ROG. While we'd all probably have Jackson benching, I really wouldn't like to see him thrown into the fire 5 minutes into the game against the boks if Sexton gets injured! Not the nicest way to start an International career!

No he doesn't. ROG isn't the 2nd cousin of a test flyhalf anymore. Time to bring in Jackson.

JRant

Mr.Opti wrote: »

Very biased opinion though!! And i think most people would agree with the below:-

No way is Cave a better 13 then Earls & Zebo is much better then Gilroy.

Tuohy should be given some time in the AI's.

Not biased at all, just the way I see it.

Cave is an actual 13, unlike Earls who is trying to become one.

There is no way Zebo is much better than Gilroy. I can only assume you don't bother watching him play if you think that.

We're pretty much agreed on Tuohy so.

close enough to the 'right team' from those available.

ROG not featuring I thought would be a step too far...

Just noticed Court's exclusion. Assumed Healy wasn't starting and Court was and that's why I could see Kilcoyne on the bench. Bit odd...

totallegend

thomond2006 wrote: »

15. Zebo
14. Bowe
13. Earls
12. D'Arcy
11. Trimble
10. Sexton (capt)
9. Murray

1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. POC
6. POM
7. Henry
8. Heaslip


16. Cronin
17. Kilcoyne
18. Bent
19. McCarthy
20. Henderson
21. Reddan
22. Jackson
23. McFadden

is the rumoured 23.

Rumoured where?

I would have major concerns re the selection of Zebo at FB but maybe they've been running him there during training; it would be very interesting one way or the other and if nothing else, it's not a conservative call...

And I'm sorry, but in what parallel universe has Kilcoyne done enough to get ahead of Court?

Tox56

Mr.Opti wrote: »

Very biased opinion though!! And i think most people would agree with the below:-

No way is Cave a better 13 then Earls & Zebo is much better then Gilroy.

Tuohy should be given some time in the AI's.

Pot kettle black? I certainly wouldn't agree with those 2 statements

bilston

Mr.Opti wrote: »

Very biased opinion though!! And i think most people would agree with the below:-

No way is Cave a better 13 then Earls & Zebo is much better then Gilroy.

Tuohy should be given some time in the AI's.

I seriously seriously doubt that most people would agree Zebo is much better than Gilroy.

bilston

bilston wrote: »

I seriously seriously doubt that most people would agree Zebo is much better than Gilroy.

I don't think there's that much of a gap either way.

Think Zebo at 15 could be quite interesting alright. Happier to see us take some risks after 4 years of dullness to be honest.

danthefan

Zebo actually starts for his province so it's a no brainier to decide who's ahead.

Having said that in Kidney's mind the fact he plays for Munster goes significantly in his favour.

bamboozle

it would be great to see McCarthy & Jackon in the 23 ahead of DOC and ROG.

Patrick Lambie is only 15 months older than Jackson and he played in this fixure 2 seasons ago and is due to start on Saturday.

I'd be delighted to see an infusion of youth in the squad in Henderson, Kilcoyne, Jackson and changing of the guard with McCarthy ahead of DOC.
I've no problems with Zebo at 15, he can field and has a siege gun boot, i'd certainly start him ahead of a rusty Jones & Hurley, while i think Bowe is more effective as a winger who drifts around the park looking for work.
Murray's bulk starting against SA makes sense, but i disagree that he's had a great season so far. The munster hype about POM sees him ahead of Mclaughin who i consider a far better 6 and far more suited to playing SA.

Hats off to DK if he goes with this squad, next for him to focus on is POC's 'ball carrying' we should have POC, Ryan, Ross, Strauss & Henry smashing rucks and leaving the carrying to Healy, Heaslip and further out POM.

totallegend

danthefan wrote: »

Zebo actually starts for his province so it's a no brainier to decide who's ahead.

Having said that in Kidney's mind the fact he plays for Munster goes significantly in his favour.

I hate that logic.

1) Gilroy is benching behind Andrew Trimble and Tommy Bowe. Who is Zebo ahead of? It's like saying Marshall can't play for Ireland because he's behind Ruan Pienaar, and because Murray is holding off Duncan Williams he's a better scrum-half.
2) Gilroy was starting last season as Ulster stormed to a Heineken Cup final, is that all forgotten now?
3) With a fully fit squad, it's questionable if Zebo would still be starting for Munster.

irishbucsfan

totallegend wrote: »

I hate that logic.

1) Gilroy is benching behind Andrew Trimble and Tommy Bowe. Who is Zebo ahead of? It's like saying Marshall can't play for Ireland because he's behind Ruan Pienaar, and because Murray is holding off Duncan Williams he's a better scrum-half.
2) Gilroy was starting last season as Ulster stormed to a Heineken Cup final, is that all forgotten now?
3) With a fully fit squad, it's questionable if Zebo would still be starting for Munster.

What's the logic then that makes you so confident that Gilroy is definitely a better 15 than Zebo?

Foxtrol

Fishooks12 wrote: »

No I don't agree with benching ROG. I'm just saying I'd be nervy seeing Jackson make his debut early if Sexton was injured!

Hopefully he would rise to the occasion though

I’d be more nervous with ROG coming on due to his inability to tackle and the abject displays he’s been putting in for a considerable period. Jackson is in fine form with a solid defence the reason not to pick him is the reason why many here have been damning Kidney for years – fear of change.

twinytwo

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think there's that much of a gap either way.

Think Zebo at 15 could be quite interesting alright. Happier to see us take some risks after 4 years of dullness to be honest.

Unfortuanately it is once again forced.

Scioch

twinytwo wrote: »

Unfortuanately it is once again forced.

I dont see any other way Zebo would end up at 15 though. Who in their right mind would start Zebo at 15 against the Boks as an unforced change ? Unforced meaning a fully fit squad.

thomond2006

Scioch wrote: »

I dont see any other way Zebo would end up at 15 though. Who in their right mind would start Zebo at 15 against the Boks as an unforced change ??

*insert picture of DK*

Scioch

thomond2006 wrote: »

*insert picture of DK*

He's not real people though.