Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Fishooks12

shuffol wrote: »

Yes but at international level he's done very little to suggest he's good enough to be starting test matches.

This I'm not arguing, I'm referring to his general form and improvement this season

JRant

Fishooks12 wrote: »

tbf his bad days have been few and far between this season.

I don't think he's a bad player at all but I still don't think he's
a) ready for test rugby just yet
or
b) what we need to get the best out of our backline or backrow.

Swan Curry

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Anyway, here's what I'd go with at the weekend

15 Zebo
14 Bowe
13 Earls
12 Darcy
11 McFadden
10 Sexton
9 Reddan
8 Heaslip
7 Henry
6 POM
5 Ryan
4 DOC
3 Ross
2 Strauss
1 Healy

16 Cronin
17 Court (if he's injured, which I think he is, then Kilkoyne)
18 Bent
19 Tuohy
20 Locky
21 Murray
22 Jackson
23 Trimble

What's your reasoning behind leaving Cave out?

irishbucsfan

Has Murray played well against a good team this season?

Fishooks12

Swan Curry wrote: »

What's your reasoning behind leaving Cave out?

I think Earls is a better 13. Not by much mind.

Fireball07

I think Murray has the most potential of our current scrum-halves, I'm a fan of his, I must admit. However, I do understand people's views on him, he was jumped into the Ireland team a bit too early and has had a few poor games for Ireland. Last season his form wasn't always great but the arrival of Penney seems to have got him back into the form that made him start for Munster into the first place, when he sticks to what he's good at, he's excellent.

My team would be:

15. Earls (I think Zebo could be an excellent 15 but his first game against SA? Not fair on him or the team imo)
14. Bowe
13. Cave
12. D'Arcy
11. Zebo
10. Sexton
9. Marshall/Reddan/Murray (Like I say, I don't really mind)
8. Heaslip
7. Henry
6. POM
5. Ryan/Tuohy (assuming POC is out)
4. DOC
3. Ross
2. Strauss
1. Court (that's assuming Healy is out)

16. Cronin
17. Kilcoyne
18. Bent (pity Fitzpatrick isn't fit)
19. Ryan/Tuohy
20. McLaughlin
21. Marshall/Reddan/Murray
22. Jackson (But I guess it'll be ROG)
23. McFadden (Versatility just gets him ahead of Trimble)

Swan Curry

I wonder whether Cronin will ever really make it past being an extremely useful impact sub.I don't wish to be too critical of him,but his qualities seem to make him exactly who you want to come on with 20 minutes to go.Hopefully he'll develop into more than that,but he doesn't seem to be progressing that much.

Fishooks12

Swan Curry wrote: »

I wonder whether Cronin will ever really make it past being an extremely useful impact sub.I don't wish to be too critical of him,but his qualities seem to make him exactly who you want to come on with 20 minutes to go.Hopefully he'll develop into more than that,but he doesn't seem to be progressing that much.

He's disappointing me with his lack of progression tbh. If Sherry keeps improving he'll leap above him for Ireland too and he might start being omitted from squads

Swan Curry

Fishooks12 wrote: »

He's disappointing me with his lack of progression tbh. If Sherry keeps improving he'll leap above him for Ireland too and he might start being omitted from squads

How are Sherry and Varley playing this year?I've only seen 4 Munster matches since the season began so I can't say much about them.

JRant

Swan Curry wrote: »

I wonder whether Cronin will ever really make it past being an extremely useful impact sub.I don't wish to be too critical of him,but his qualities seem to make him exactly who you want to come on with 20 minutes to go.Hopefully he'll develop into more than that,but he doesn't seem to be progressing that much.

I think Cronin is developing into a very good player. However he is very much a horses for courses type player. He has really improved his workrate without the ball, mind you his darts still need a bit of work. So I'd say if your looking to play 10 man, territorial rugby there's better options. If you want to play running rugby he's not a bad option to give the ball to.

Fishooks12

Swan Curry wrote: »

How are Sherry and Varley playing this year?I've only seen 4 Munster matches since the season began so I can't say much about them.

Sherry isn't consistent enough yet but he's improving. Having a decent season but I don't see him troubling Cronin for that third places until he nails down the Munster shirt over Varley who's playing well enough too

clsmooth

Swan Curry wrote: »

I wonder whether Cronin will ever really make it past being an extremely useful impact sub.I don't wish to be too critical of him,but his qualities seem to make him exactly who you want to come on with 20 minutes to go.Hopefully he'll develop into more than that,but he doesn't seem to be progressing that much.

Healy has the same impact qualities too but is too good a player to leave out
from the start for Ireland and Leinster. Cronin isn't quite there in my opinion. Best and Strauss are two more solid players who bring a lot more grunt to the game.

Foxtrol

Swan Curry wrote: »

POM will be fine as long as he keeps his head screwed on.I'd much rather see 6:POM 7:Henry 8:Heaslip than 6:McLaughlin 7:POM 8:Heaslip.People who say POM isn't dynamic must not have seen much of him,his running game isn't as nonexistent as some seem to think.

I think you’re missing the best option for the backrow which is 6. Locky, 7. Henry and 8. Heaslip, which POM providing adequate cover for each position from the bench. I agree POM is dynamic as an openfield runner but he hasn’t shown yet that he has the grunt to face the likes of SA (not that I’d be trying to out grunt SA but we cant risk being blown away either). Locky outshone him in that aspect (and his general performance) down in NZ. I just cant see DK starting Henry though so Locky will be 6 and POM shoehorned into 7.

irishbucsfan

POM has played very well in tight forward-oriented games before, even been Man of the Match. I think a back row of POM, Henry, Heaslip would have great balance. Henry adds the extra power and size at 7 that we'd be looking for from McLaughlin.

I think POMs pace and workrate will be absolutely vital. Attempting to outmuscle them would be dangerous (although I wouldn't be surprised if it happens given how we've played in recent years).

bilston

You know I've been thinking about the pack and if Healy and O'Connell are out we're probably looking at...

Court, Strauss, Ross, O'Callaghan, Ryan, O'Mahony, Henry, Heaslip

I'm just wondering who the real powerful ball carriers are, I mean there are carriers there obviously but who there can do what Healy, Ferris and O'Brien can do and what Wallace did in the past? I worry our forwards are going to struggle any go forward ball. The more I look at it the more I think I'd consider throwing Henderson in there. Not saying I'd definitely pick him but despite his inexperience I can see an increasingly strong argument for taking the risk.

totallegend

Foxtrol wrote: »

I just cant see DK starting Henry though so Locky will be 6 and POM shoehorned into 7.

Yep, this.

Two key points here:
1) Kidney has shown very little interest in Chris Henry over a long period.
2) POM will start this game one way or another.

It's frustrating; Henry has been so good for so long and POM has not played any significant games at 7.

TBH I don't think there's a huge amount between McLaughlin and POM at 6 but I will be very annoyed if POM gets the nod at 7.

bilston

totallegend wrote: »

Yep, this.

Two key points here:
1) Kidney has shown very little interest in Chris Henry over a long period.
2) POM will start this game one way or another.

It's frustrating; Henry has been so good for so long and POM has not played any significant games at 7. It's the

TBH I don't think there's a huge amount between McLaughlin and POM at 6 but I will be very annoyed if POM gets the nod at 7.

Locky is a good carrier though isn't he?

That's my point above about even considering Henderson, in hindsight McLaughlin is a more realistic option though. We could well see McLaughlin at 6 and O'Mahony at 7.

totallegend

bilston wrote: »

Locky is a good carrier though isn't he?

That's my point above about even considering Henderson, in hindsight McLaughlin is a more realistic option though. We could well see McLaughlin at 6 and O'Mahony at 7.

McLaughlin takes the ball well into contact, usually gains a couple of metres and presents it back but he's never going to break the line and gain ground in a Ferris/O'Brien way.

bamboozle

Locky is an excellent ball carrier close in, he is probably the best we have at coming onto the ball at pace tight in and getting over the gainline. SOB/Ferris/Heaslip are better utilised carrying the ball further out. Cant see Locky starting on sat though but i hope i'm wrong as his skillset is perfect for tight forward dominated games like we can expect from SA.

totallegend

BTW, not sure if it's been stated already but team announcement is Thursday, presumably to give O'Connell as much time as possible to prove his fitness.

Although if it has to be left so late, you'd have to question if he's really 100% and therefore should he be risked, given we have quality replacements?

.ak

LeftBase, any more provincial BS and you can spend a week in the sin bin.

d-gal

totallegend wrote: »

BTW, not sure if it's been stated already but team announcement is Thursday, presumably to give O'Connell as much time as possible to prove his fitness.

Although if it has to be left so late, you'd have to question if he's really 100% and therefore should he be risked, given we have quality replacements?

I say its more about the leadership prospects. Ireland usually have 3 in BOD, POC and Best. Given 2 are def out I would say that's the reason. I know we have DOC and Heaslip who have captained there provincial teams but I'd choose POC a million times over.
I'd give anything for McCarthy to be selected, he is the standout lock on form but playing for Connacht knocks him out of a starting or even a bench spot. Buckley can feel hard done by as well, I'd take him over Kilcoyne anyday and unfortunately if they switched provinces Buckley would be in the 23.

CIARAN_BOYLE

bilston wrote: »

Locky is a good carrier though isn't he?

That's my point above about even considering Henderson, in hindsight McLaughlin is a more realistic option though. We could well see McLaughlin at 6 and O'Mahony at 7.

He does the carrying POC tries to except he does it properly and makes a meter or two a go

If POM and Henry are the flankers Heaslip will have to go back to carrying and Strauss can be a pretty good carrier too, might need Tuohy at lock to provide another good ball carrying option.

Fireball07

Heaslip is a good carrier, I know he hasn't been doing it as much for Ireland/Leinster in recent years but without Ferris/SOB he has to step up again. Henry is fairly decent too but not in the same mould and POM is a good player to take the ball on.

One of Tuohy or Ryan may be used for similar, although again, neither would be as good.

crisco10

Whats the story with healy? Is he injured? I thought he was fine, just taken off as a precaution for Leinster.

CIARAN_BOYLE

crisco10 wrote: »

Whats the story with healy? Is he injured? I thought he was fine, just taken off as a precaution for Leinster.

rumours say he is out for SA (should be good for Argentina though) not sure what is wrong with him

Hagz

crisco10 wrote: »

Whats the story with healy? Is he injured? I thought he was fine, just taken off as a precaution for Leinster.

Don't think there's been any sort of announcement or info released but a small rumour emerged that he was going to be out, but nothing's confirmed. He definitely did not take part in training on 29th of October, 30th of October and 1st of November as pics prove that. There's been no pics yet of training sessions after the 1st of November so I can't see whether he's sat those out as well.

JRant

Fireball07 wrote: »

Heaslip is a good carrier, I know he hasn't been doing it as much for Ireland/Leinster in recent years but without Ferris/SOB he has to step up again. Henry is fairly decent too but not in the same mould and POM is a good player to take the ball on.

One of Tuohy or Ryan may be used for similar, although again, neither would be as good.

Heaslip carries well for Leinster and is being utilized more in that role with SOB out.
The main problem we have is that POC hogs far to much of the ball for far to few yards gained. I remember reading an article a while back (think it was demented mole!) and it highlighted how our backrow are much more effective with ball in hand when POC doesn't play.
Now I'm not suggesting for one second we should be dropping POC, rather a change in mindset i.e. new coach please.

Fireball07

JRant wrote: »

Heaslip carries well for Leinster and is being utilized more in that role with SOB out.
The main problem we have is that POC hogs far to much of the ball for far to few yards gained. I remember reading an article a while back (think it was demented mole!) and it highlighted how our backrow are much more effective with ball in hand when POC doesn't play.
Now I'm not suggesting for one second we should be dropping POC, rather a change in mindset i.e. new coach please.

Sure POC probably won't be playing anyway. He didn't carry much for Munster in his first few games this season...just the odd close-in carry iirc.

Hagz

Hagz wrote: »

Don't think there's been any sort of announcement or info released but a small rumour emerged that he was going to be out, but nothing's confirmed. He definitely did not take part in training on 29th of October, 30th of October and 1st of November as pics prove that. There's been no pics yet of training sessions after the 1st of November so I can't see whether he's sat those out as well.

Healy trained today