Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Podge_irl

skregs wrote: »

Or Earls at 13

I thought that before the 6N, but thought Earls did reasonably well there. Certainly a lot better then I was expecting.

thomond2006

leonard7 wrote: »

is there a wolfhounds game planned anytime soon? or is that essentially the barbarians game...i'd be more interested to see who will make that team than the nz touring team

That team will largely depend on the provinces making the rabo final, if it's a munster vs leinster final then the team playing the barbarians will be very weakened and could be dominated by ulster players.

Tox56

Earls improved tremendously, but he wasn't starting off from a great foundation. I think Cave should at least be given a go. One thing he does add his breakdown work, which isn't exactly BOD-esque, but far better than the other alternatives who are more lightweight. At least try combinations and see what works.

irishbucsfan

Earls was excellent. He earned his spot every time he played.

Podge_irl

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Earls was excellent. He earned his spot every time he played.

Would still like to see Cave get a shot though, he strikes me as a more natural 13 and while Earls did very well he still doesn't really have the distribution you'd like to see at OC. His defence was solid though, which was the main concern. I'd be worried about him playing 13 for Ireland if he shifts back out to wing for Munster though as it seems to take him a while to adjust (which is no sleight on the guy, as its not an easy thing to do).

fitz

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Earls was excellent. He earned his spot every time he played.

I wouldn't have said excellent. He did a lot better than many of us expected, but he's wasted in the centre when we have more natural 13s available, and he's far more dangerous at 11.

its_phil

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

McCarthy will likely miss the tour. He has been cited for gouging in Connacht's last game. I didn't see the game or incident, but the pic that was floating around looked bad.

have you got a link to the image?

phog

skregs wrote: »

Or Earls at 13

Did you miss the 6Ns?

irishbucsfan

fitz wrote: »

I wouldn't have said excellent. He did a lot better than many of us expected, but he's wasted in the centre when we have more natural 13s available, and he's far more dangerous at 11.

I would say excellent. He was given very little opportunity in attack. He still managed to carry well, and he presented well. His distribution was good as well despite it being a weakness of his. His defense was excellent despite everyone saying constantly that it was a weakness of his and saying what a turnstile he would be.

I'd love to see him playing 13 outside a better attacking 12. Even when Reddan came on he was looking better as Sexton has able to take ball at pace and give him better possession. I was thoroughly convinced by Earls. I don't agree at all that he's wasted at 13.

fitz

irishbucsfan wrote: »

fitz wrote: »

I wouldn't have said excellent. He did a lot better than many of us expected, but he's wasted in the centre when we have more natural 13s available, and he's far more dangerous at 11.

I would say excellent. He was given very little opportunity in attack. He still managed to carry well, and he presented well. His distribution was good as well despite it being a weakness of his. His defense was excellent despite everyone saying constantly that it was a weakness of his and saying what a turnstile he would be.

I'd love to see him playing 13 outside a better attacking 12. Even when Reddan came on he was looking better as Sexton has able to take ball at pace and give him better possession. I was thoroughly convinced by Earls. I don't agree at all that he's wasted at 13.

I was surprised and impressed by his defensive work, but I'm still not convinced that he's the best available option at 13 when BOD isn't playing. I'd no longer be concerned about him moving there in a pinch during a game, but think both Cave and O'Malley are better, and that Earls is still at his best at 11. Maybe wasted is too strong, but I don't think 13 is making the best use of him.

Tox56

irishbucsfan wrote: »

fitz wrote: »

I wouldn't have said excellent. He did a lot better than many of us expected, but he's wasted in the centre when we have more natural 13s available, and he's far more dangerous at 11.

I would say excellent. He was given very little opportunity in attack. He still managed to carry well, and he presented well. His distribution was good as well despite it being a weakness of his. His defense was excellent despite everyone saying constantly that it was a weakness of his and saying what a turnstile he would be.

I'd love to see him playing 13 outside a better attacking 12. Even when Reddan came on he was looking better as Sexton has able to take ball at pace and give him better possession. I was thoroughly convinced by Earls. I don't agree at all that he's wasted at 13.

From what I saw he was excluded from many backline passing moves, with Kearney coming in as 3rd reciever, presumably due to his superior passing. He gradually got more involved through the tournament but in the England game the ball rarely went past 12 so it's hard to know what would have happened.

WeeBushy

Tox56 wrote: »

Sorry if this has already been asked (I can't see it),
but does anybody know when do they announce the squad for NZ?

Think it was Thomond who said earlier in the thread that there's no official date set that's been announced. He thought it would be fairly soon.

If the the match against the barbarians is in three weeks from today, you would think it would be announced at least a week in advance. So possibly some time next week...

But I'm predicting the final squad won't be announced until after the HC final for some reason... it's the kind of thing Kidney would do.

Going on whose available now I would go with:

Healy, Best, Ross, Court, Fitzpatrick, Loughney
Best, Cronin, Sherry
Ryan, Touhy, Toner, McLaughlin (as 2nd/backrow cover as Kidney seems to love that and McCarthy may be suspended. Although DOC will definitely go instead of them, especially now that POC is injured we'll need the 'experience')
Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip, POM, Henry
Reddan, Murray, Marshall
Sexton, Madigan (Although ROG will definitely go)
D'Arcy, McFadden
O'Driscoll, Cave
Earls, Trimble, Mcfadden, D. Kearney, Gilroy
R Kearney

totallegend

Think Earls has earned a shot at 13 in NZ, he didn't set the world on fire in the 6N but he was solid and DK obviously fancies him for it. I don't care whether it's Earls or Cave, but if we go down to NZ and BOD plays all three tests, it's a wasted trip. We have to start trying lads out.

irishbucsfan

Tox56 wrote: »

From what I saw he was excluded from many backline passing moves, with Kearney coming in as 3rd reciever, presumably due to his superior passing. He gradually got more involved through the tournament but in the England game the ball rarely went past 12 so it's hard to know what would have happened.

No, Kearney was coming in as 2nd receiver outside 1st. This is something that he does for every team he plays for. Earls was absolutely not excluded from the offense! When Reddan came on and improved the speed of recycling improved Earls was brought into the game. Sexton was unable to bring them into the games when playing with Murray.

WeeBushy

totallegend wrote: »

Think Earls has earned a shot at 13 in NZ, he didn't set the world on fire in the 6N but he was solid and DK obviously fancies him for it. I don't care whether it's Earls or Cave, but if we go down to NZ and BOD plays all three tests, it's a wasted trip. We have to start trying lads out.

Yeah probably should have put him beside O'Driscoll and Cave.

Tox56

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Tox56 wrote: »

From what I saw he was excluded from many backline passing moves, with Kearney coming in as 3rd reciever, presumably due to his superior passing. He gradually got more involved through the tournament but in the England game the ball rarely went past 12 so it's hard to know what would have happened.

No, Kearney was coming in as 2nd receiver outside 1st. This is something that he does for every team he plays for. Earls was absolutely not excluded from the offense! When Reddan came on and improved the speed of recycling improved Earls was brought into the game. Sexton was unable to bring them into the games when playing with Murray.

It's a few months ago now, but I remember noticing it in one game and looked at the game on the iplayer to double check and found it happened fairly often. I looked out for it in the next game and it was similar again.

That said, we have 3 tests in NZ, that is 3 opportunities to test out different combinations, there is no reason both Cave and Earls can't have a fair shot.

Cave v BOD in the HEC Final will also be something I will be keeping an eye on, big stage and a big opportunity.

totallegend

I think Cave is definitely the more solid defender, but I've been very impressed by how Earls' handling has improved, a couple of times this season he's shown very quick hands to move the ball outside.

I still think he's best suited to the wing though...

Former Coach

totallegend wrote: »

I think Cave is definitely the more solid defender, but I've been very impressed by how Earls' handling has improved, a couple of times this season he's shown very quick hands to move the ball outside.

I still think he's best suited to the wing though...

Agreed! Would acknowledge improvement with passing- and defence. But I'd still see him as a wing (and a very good one at that!).

WeeBushy

totallegend wrote: »

I think Cave is definitely the more solid defender, but I've been very impressed by how Earls' handling has improved, a couple of times this season he's shown very quick hands to move the ball outside.

I still think he's best suited to the wing though...

Yeah he's proved me wrong, I thought he would be terrible at 13. He has developed as the seasons progressed and seems more comfortable there now. But I would agree, I think long term his best position is on the wing. And playing in the centre for a bit could aid that, bringing that thinking side of the game onto the wing would make him a much better player imo.

Still really want to see Cave get a start out there. I predict O'Driscoll to start 2, Earls 1 and 1, maybe 2, sub appearances for Cave.

Fireball07

WeeBushy wrote: »

Think it was Thomond who said earlier in the thread that there's no official date set that's been announced. He thought it would be fairly soon.

If the the match against the barbarians is in three weeks from today, you would think it would be announced at least a week in advance. So possibly some time next week...

But I'm predicting the final squad won't be announced until after the HC final for some reason... it's the kind of thing Kidney would do.

Going on whose available now I would go with:

Healy, Best, Ross, Court, Fitzpatrick, Loughney
Best, Cronin, Sherry
Ryan, Touhy, Toner, McLaughlin (as 2nd/backrow cover as Kidney seems to love that and McCarthy may be suspended. Although DOC will definitely go instead of them, especially now that POC is injured we'll need the 'experience')
Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip, POM, Henry
Reddan, Murray, Marshall
Sexton, Madigan (Although ROG will definitely go)
D'Arcy, McFadden
O'Driscoll, Cave
Earls, Trimble, Mcfadden, D. Kearney, Gilroy
R Kearney

Best as a prop?? Do you not mean Wilkinson?

Is Bowe definitely out so? I'd bring Zebo as a back 3 option definitely if he is, because you've included McFadden twice.

WeeBushy wrote: »

Yeah he's proved me wrong, I thought he would be terrible at 13. He has developed as the seasons progressed and seems more comfortable there now. But I would agree, I think long term his best position is on the wing. And playing in the centre for a bit could aid that, bringing that thinking side of the game onto the wing would make him a much better player imo.

Still really want to see Cave get a start out there. I predict O'Driscoll to start 2, Earls 1 and 1, maybe 2, sub appearances for Cave.

I can't see Cave being a sub. He either starts or he doesn't play.

.ak

Honestly, I think he was far better than any of us (naysayers) gave him credit for.

Having said that, I still think he's a shade below international standard at 13. He didn't set the world on fire. He did a solid job for us, but I think we've always hinged alot of our game plan on having an above standard 13 and 12 in the current partnership.

I don't think Earls will ever be a 13 that sets the world on fire, but I think he'll score bagloads of tries on the wing. I'd much rather see a more 'natural' 13 be given a good run in a green shirt, i.e Cave, EOM or even Griffen.

Podge_irl

I certainly think Earls was more in the "solid but unspectacular" category in the 6N. However that is above what I was expecting and if we're willing to give some of the more established players some leeway due to the style of rugby Ireland play and the management, then I guess its only fair to extend that to Earls.

WeeBushy

Fireball07 wrote: »

Best as a prop?? Do you not mean Wilkinson?

Is Bowe definitely out so? I'd bring Zebo as a back 3 option definitely if he is, because you've included McFadden twice.

Oops... my mistake. Wilkinson instead. Really dunno about Zebo. He's one of the best players in Ireland with ball in hand, but large parts of his game just aren't good enough at the moment to go up against NZ. Might just bring a bolter like Dom Ryan maybe.

I can't see Cave being a sub. He either starts or he doesn't play.

With Earls involved then he covers the wing and Sexton covers 12 (:rolleyes:), and then if McFadden is involved in another he can cover injuries across the backine. So I can see him being a sub in Kidney's eyes.

Podge_irl

This is the same Kidney who had ROG and Paddy Wallace as the outside back cover on the bench for a whole 6N. Hard to know what he'll think is sufficient cover.

totallegend

Podge_irl wrote: »

This is the same Kidney who had ROG and Paddy Wallace as the outside back cover on the bench for a whole 6N. Hard to know what he'll think is sufficient cover.

I can see McFadden both benefiting and suffering from his versatility; he'll be in with a good shout of the bench but probably not for a starting spot. Much like his situation at Leinster I suppose, but a guy who can cover 11, 12, 13 and 14 and kick goals if needed, has to be an attractive option for the bench.

Madigan has a good bit of experience at FB, just saying...

Fireball07

Podge_irl wrote: »

This is the same Kidney who had ROG and Paddy Wallace as the outside back cover on the bench for a whole 6N. Hard to know what he'll think is sufficient cover.

Kidney's made a lot of bad decisions but I honestly think this is the worst one he ever made (off the top of my head). You shouldn't remind me of that...:mad:

JustinDee

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

. . . etc etc

I think that is reasonable evidence to show that Coughlan outperformed Heaslip in their head-to-heads last season.

These stats from Disney are not enough to prove your point. Even you yourself admit that they're unreliable.
I can tell you that they do tend to be way out from what the actual picture would portray.

mikedragon32

JustinDee wrote: »

These stats from Disney are not enough to prove your point. Even you yourself admit that they're unreliable.
I can tell you that they do tend to be way out from what the actual picture would portray.

Justin, rather than tell us that Cpt's stats are wrong, why not provide the correct ones?

thomond2006

Seeing that you're online Justin, do you know when the touring squad will be announced?

Cpt_Blackbeard

JustinDee wrote: »

These stats from Disney are not enough to prove your point. Even you yourself admit that they're unreliable.
I can tell you that they do tend to be way out from what the actual picture would portray.

Do you have anything to back up you assertion that Heaslip was better than Coughlan in their two meetings last year? Otherwise just let it die.