Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

siltirocker

35 I'd bring:

Props: Healy, Ross, Wilkinson, Loughney, Court

Hookers: Best, Cronin & Sherry

Locks: Tuohy, Ryan, McCarthy & Toner
(DOC will travel though, but tbh Toner has not WOW'd me the way Macca, Tuohy & Ryan have this year)

Back Row: SOB, Heaslip, POM, Henry, Muldoon
(I'd be disappointed with anything else, the latter 3 being their respective province's players of the year)

Scrum Half Backs: Reddan, Marshall, Murray
(Absolutely do not rate Murray ahead of Boss but DK does)

Outside Half Backs: Sexton, Madigan, Keatley
(ROG will travel though, on a side note - imagine if Munster put the faith in Keats that McLaughlin has put in Jackson)

Centres: McFadden, O'Driscoll, Wallace, D'Arcy
(Would live with Cave in there)

Wingers: Trimble, Earls, O'Halloran, Gilroy, Kearney, Zebo

Full Backs: Kearney, Duffy

Based on NO politics but solely on what I've seen this season. No building for the future malark, no 'experience is key' BS. I've simple picked a squad based on this season's performances. NOTHING ELSE.

1st choice:

Healy
Best
Ross (barely)
Tuohy
Ryan
SOB
Henry
Heaslip
Reddan
Sexton
Trimble
Wallace
BOD
Earls
Kearney

Cronin
Loughney
McCarthy
POM
Marshall
Madigan
McFadden

totallegend

siltirocker wrote: »

35 I'd bring:

.....

1st choice:

Ross (barely)

Yeah, I'd agree with your squad, except I don't see any chance of us bringing a squad of 35. We only brought 30 to the World Cup...

Also, I would really dispute your description of Ross being 'barely' first choice at TH, I think he's a country mile ahead of anyone else. I'd like to see Court start one of the tests and Loughney get a bench spot, I think he has potential.

I agree that Duffy should go, but he won't. Likewise, Muldoon will not travel ahead of O'Brien.

mikedragon32

totallegend wrote: »

Yeah, I'd agree with your squad, except I don't see any chance of us bringing a squad of 35. We only brought 30 to the World Cup...

Also, I would really dispute your description of Ross being 'barely' first choice at TH, I think he's a country mile ahead of anyone else. I'd like to see Court start one of the tests and Loughney get a bench spot, I think he has potential.

I agree that Duffy should go, but he won't. Likewise, Muldoon will not travel ahead of O'Brien.

I agree with what you say re Ross, however I think THP is the weak link in our pack right now (Leinster & Ireland). At this stage a player of Ross' experience and standard should have enough tricks up his sleeve to deal with looseheads, but most times I've seen him recently he seems to be put under a lot of pressure early in games.

siltirocker

totallegend wrote: »

Yeah, I'd agree with your squad, except I don't see any chance of us bringing a squad of 35. We only brought 30 to the World Cup...

Also, I would really dispute your description of Ross being 'barely' first choice at TH, I think he's a country mile ahead of anyone else. I'd like to see Court start one of the tests and Loughney get a bench spot, I think he has potential.

I agree that Duffy should go, but he won't. Likewise, Muldoon will not travel ahead of O'Brien.

I wouldn't put Muldoon ahead of O'Brien. I have both there. Outside of the matchday 4, I think Muldoon should be considered first.

My 'barely' comment regarding Ross is down to the fact that. . . well he isn't very good. But yes as you pointed out he is better than the rest. Although it's worth noting that Loughney's has excelled against 'Quins and Toulouse in the Heineken Cup this year at TH, a position he has only been playing for 6-8 months). And had these test been against a lesser nation. . . I probably would put him ahead of Ross.

JustinDee

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Do you have anything to back up you assertion that Heaslip was better than Coughlan in their two meetings last year?

As I've said before, I'm lucky to get a peek whenever I can of analyses of players etc. I just can't throw it out as its not for public domain.

By all means, go by Disney. Doesn't mean you're correct, particularly when you discredit your own sources. I'm just pointing out that you're stating opinion as it is fact and that you would be wrong to do so.

JustinDee

thomond2006 wrote: »

Seeing that you're online Justin, do you know when the touring squad will be announced?

I'd say after the ERC comp is finished.

leftleg

siltirocker wrote: »

My 'barely' comment regarding Ross is down to the fact that. . . well he isn't very good. But yes as you pointed out he is better than the rest. Although it's worth noting that Loughney's has excelled against 'Quins and Toulouse in the Heineken Cup this year at TH, a position he has only been playing for 6-8 months). And had these test been against a lesser nation. . . I probably would put him ahead of Ross.

Firstly Ross is a great TH; you say he struggles early in games; but opnce he gets the hang of his opposing LH he comfortably dominates them; Northampton; Clermont are examples of this; Botha had a torrid time against the same saints front row that was humbled by Ross.

I remember the Toulouse v Connaught game; Loughney had an awgful time at scrum time; the peno try only came at the end when Toulouse were miles away; Throughout the game the Conn scrum was pushed out of the way so i dunno where your getting that from. Loughney is a good prop but he is no where near Ross at TH.

totallegend

siltirocker wrote: »

I wouldn't put Muldoon ahead of O'Brien. I have both there. Outside of the matchday 4, I think Muldoon should be considered first.

You do indeed, my bad.

siltirocker wrote: »

My 'barely' comment regarding Ross is down to the fact that. . . well he isn't very good. But yes as you pointed out he is better than the rest. Although it's worth noting that Loughney's has excelled against 'Quins and Toulouse in the Heineken Cup this year at TH, a position he has only been playing for 6-8 months). And had these test been against a lesser nation. . . I probably would put him ahead of Ross.

We'll agree to disagree on that, I think Ross has been excellent this season. As I said, I'd love to see Loughney get some game time but he's not remotely ready to be a starting TH against New Zealand.

siltirocker

leftleg wrote: »

Firstly Ross is a great TH; you say he struggles early in games;

No I didn't.

leftleg wrote: »

I remember the Toulouse v Connaught game; Loughney had an awgful time at scrum time; the peno try only came at the end when Toulouse were miles away; Throughout the game the Conn scrum was pushed out of the way so i dunno where your getting that from.

Very true, I wouldn't imagine anything less with it being only Loughney's 2nd or 3rd game at TH.

I was referring to the games between Quins and Toulouse in January.

EDIT: Apologises my mistake, I meant Leinster in January. My bad.

leftleg wrote: »

Loughney is a good prop but he is no where near Ross at TH.

I agree. But I believe he can be better.

Tox56

siltirocker wrote: »

35 I'd bring:

Locks: Tuohy, Ryan, McCarthy & Toner
(DOC will travel though, but tbh Toner has not WOW'd me the way Macca, Tuohy & Ryan have this year)

I think Toner has been one of the best players this year at Leinster, certainly one of the most improved. When you have Brad Thorn and Leo Cullen for competition, you won't get much of a chance in the bigger matches. However, his lineout work has been predictably excellent, he has learned how to use 20st when carrying, and his hands are fantastic for a guy his size.

It would be slightly odd to bring a player not starting for his province, but I think he has had a great season.

leftleg

siltirocker wrote: »

No I didn't.

I stand corrected; it was mikedragon who posted that; damn mods trolling

siltirocker

Tox56 wrote: »

I think Toner has been one of the best players this year at Leinster, certainly one of the most improved. When you have Brad Thorn and Leo Cullen for competition, you won't get much of a chance in the bigger matches. However, his lineout work has been predictably excellent, he has learned how to use 20st when carrying, and his hands are fantastic for a guy his size.

It would be slightly odd to bring a player not starting for his province, but I think he has had a great season.

I think he has much improved Tox, but Macca, Big Dan and Ryan have just been better IMO.

JoeyDoh

Arn't you forgetting Ferris,first name on the team sheet based on his form this season for me!

yimrsg

Until Keith Earls is making breaks from the defensive line when facing an overlap that BOD has mastered (and to a lesser extent Cave and EOM do), stopping an opponent's attack in a single hit; Earls won't have the full gambit of defensive attributes for me at 13. His one-one-on tackling has definitely improved this year, but improving his reading of the game at 13 will take longer. Learning from a natural 13 in Laulala and training and playing regularly alongside him will hopefully improve his game further. As things stand with injuries to our wingers for the tour, he's needed on the wings more than he is in the centres.

niallon

siltirocker wrote: »

Back Row: SOB, Heaslip, POM, Henry, Muldoon
(I'd be disappointed with anything else, the latter 3 being their respective province's players of the year)

Does Ferris have an injury I don't know about?

bilston

JoeyDoh wrote: »

Arn't you forgetting Ferris,first name on the team sheet based on his form this season for me!

I think there are a few, myself included, who think he should get the summer off. In saying that we've little chance with him, but with zero chance without him, especially with Paulie likely to be out.

justsomebloke

JustinDee wrote: »

As I've said before, I'm lucky to get a peek whenever I can of analyses of players etc. I just can't throw it out as its not for public domain.

By all means, go by Disney. Doesn't mean you're correct, particularly when you discredit your own sources. I'm just pointing out that you're stating opinion as it is fact and that you would be wrong to do so.

So you want someone else to provide evidence for their assertion but won't do the same when they ask the same of you?

So all I can say is that at least Cpt_blackbeard attempted to back up his assertion so you really have no right to be calling into question his "disney" figures when you aren't going to back up your point with references.

Surely the IRFU stats aren't the only ones to suggest he is the better player, if they are then maybe they are overly biased

Teferi

Ferris has a distinct lack of knees and was hobbling off after the Edinburgh game. No doubt he'll play the final but a rest after the summer would do him good. Would prefer him not to go and get him back fully fit for Ulster and Ireland next year.

totallegend

justsomebloke wrote: »

So you want someone else to provide evidence for their assertion but won't do the same when they ask the same of you?

Mike Ross was the player with the highest amount of yards carried during the Six Nations.

Keith Earls defied critics of his defensive abilities by making more tackles than all the back-row players in the Heineken Cup combined.

Ronan O'Gara runs more possession and kicks less than any out-half who has ever lived.

What, proof? I have it here, can't show you though. You'll take my word though, right?

justsomebloke

justsomebloke wrote: »

..right to be calling into question his "disney" figures when you aren't going to back up your point with references....

/aside
ESPN = Disney

http://espnwwos.disney.go.com/

JustinDee

justsomebloke wrote: »

So you want someone else to provide evidence for their assertion but won't do the same when they ask the same of you?

So all I can say is that at least Cpt_blackbeard attempted to back up his assertion so you really have no right to be calling into question his "disney" figures when you aren't going to back up your point with references.

Surely the IRFU stats aren't the only ones to suggest he is the better player, if they are then maybe they are overly biased

This is an internet forum surely? Not a courthouse. Feel free to take me to task. What I say makes no odds to this 'captain' poster fella. What he says makes no odds to me either. I'm just posting.
As it appears that any old link will do to "back up" a post, I won't waste any more of your time.

If you've a problem as an apparent moderator with what I post then by all means, email me or PM me.

Edit: Disney owns ESPN hence the nickname.

justsomebloke

JustinDee wrote: »

This is an internet forum surely? Not a courthouse.

yes it is, and as with every internet forum people can call bull**** on your position when you don't back up your position with facts, especially when you were the first one to ask for facts.

and I'm saying that as a user not a mod

leftleg

JustinDee wrote: »

This is an internet forum surely? Not a courthouse. Feel free to take me to task. What I say makes no odds to this 'captain' poster fella. What he says makes no odds to me either. I'm just posting.
As it appears that any old link will do to "back up" a post, I won't waste any more of your time.

If you've a problem as an apparent moderator with what I post then by all means, email me or PM me.

Edit: Disney owns ESPN hence the nickname.

Miaaoooowww

fitz

justsomebloke wrote: »

JustinDee wrote: »

This is an internet forum surely? Not a courthouse.

yes it is, and as with every internet forum people can call bull**** on your position when you don't back up your position with facts, especially when you were the first one to ask for facts.

and I'm saying that as a user not a mod

In fairness, the Captain has gotten away without the same standard applying to him earlier in this thread.

totallegend

fitz wrote: »

In fairness, the Captain has gotten away without the same standard applying to him earlier in this thread.

And he got pulled up on it pretty sharpish by all and sundry, which led to four pages of nonsense. Not to be a backseat mod, but let's not re-open that one...

leftleg

fitz wrote: »

In fairness, the Captain has gotten away without the same standard applying to him earlier in this thread.

You wouldn't by any chance be poo pooing captains statistical probability guesstimates based on Gausses structural theorem and a highbrid version of maxwell and poissons limit theories.

mikedragon32

totallegend wrote: »

And he got pulled up on it pretty sharpish by all and sundry, which led to four pages of nonsense. Not to be a backseat mod, but let's not re-open that one...

Indeed

JustinDee

leftleg wrote: »

Miaaoooowww

Saucer about?

JustinDee

justsomebloke wrote: »

yes it is, and as with every internet forum people can call bull**** on your position when you don't back up your position with facts, especially when you were the first one to ask for facts

And I never got anything but an opinion coupled with alleged stats put together by a hobbyist who then submits them to a website.

justsomebloke wrote: »

and I'm saying that as a user not a mod

Thanks. I feel better now

totallegend

JustinDee wrote: »

And I never got anything but an opinion coupled with alleged stats put together by a hobbyist who then submits them to a website.

True enough, but they're out there for people to see and then debate or criticise, as opposed to:

JustinDee wrote: »

As I've said before, I'm lucky to get a peek whenever I can of analyses of players etc. I just can't throw it out as its not for public domain.

In fairness like, how confidential can these stats be if some guy wandering around the IRFU offices can "get a peek"?