Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

rrpc wrote: »

Contepomi always played 12 for Argentina. Not so much for Leinster and there were always options on the bench. Same with Isa and Sexton. Warwick and ROG, can't remember who the bench option was, but then nobody liked to bench for ROG; splintersville...

its in reponse to a poster who claimed you'd never have your outhalf and backup outhalf on the pitch at the same time.

it happens all the time if the options are too good to leave on the bench.

Nacewa isn't Leinsters 2nd choice 10 though, to be fair.

CIARAN_BOYLE

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Nacewa isn't Leinsters 2nd choice 10 though, to be fair.

But he was for a good period last year, Berne/McKinley were injured and Madigan wasn't trusted yet

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Nacewa isn't Leinsters 2nd choice 10 though, to be fair.

Has isa ever started a game for leinster when he wasn't 10 (conters or sexton) and there was no other 10 available - in other words was he the backup 10 and he played 80 mins at fullback or on the wing.

chancer12

.ak wrote: »

Really? We have no one else that could do a better job at 12 than Sexton, in the country?

McFadden, Fitzgerald, Whitten, Spence, hell I'd even put young JJ down as a better 12 than Sexton. The only thing Sexton is good at 12 is defense and the ability to pop a pass in the tackle. Which is much more suited to having a center looping around him when he does it... Playing him out of position is just Kidney being paranoid about defense.

it's also about getting ROG on the pitch, which seems to be an obsession of kidneys

irishbucsfan

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Nacewa isn't Leinsters 2nd choice 10 though, to be fair.

But he was for a good period last year, Berne/McKinley were injured and Madigan wasn't trusted yet

Madigan was playing heineken cup rugby last year...

Anyway, I don't mind about any of that. It's just the missed opportunity to give someone a chance at 12. I think it really comes down to Kidney not wanting McFadden to be up against D'Arcy because McFadden probably isn't ready. Not something I'm hugely annoyed about. I just question why we make that change so early.

jm08

.ak wrote: »

Isa is a terrible 10 though... He was signed at 10 in fairness, but quickly found his way to his best position. So that point doesn't really stand. O'Gara will be gone by next year, so why have Sexton at 12 when he's going to be used at 10 and never moved for the foreseeable future?

how is a possible replacement of rog's going to get gametime then? you planning on dropping sexton to the bench or might you move sexton to 12 to get him up to speed ?

CIARAN_BOYLE

jm08 wrote: »

Has isa ever started a game for leinster when he wasn't 10 (conters or sexton) and there was no other 10 available - in other words was he the backup 10 and he played 80 mins at fullback or on the wing.

Saracens away last year, various other rabo games

Tox56

This argument seems to be going round in circles and ultimately off topic.

All I will say is, McFadden has a future at 12 for both Leinster and (hopefully) Ireland. Why on earth would you put an international OH to 12 just to accomodate an OH who has no future with Ireland, while at the same time changing half the backline?

If you have to put ROG on, take off Sexton. If you want a new 12, put on McFadden.

jm08

molloyjh wrote: »

Other than McFadden, who plays 12 regularly for Leinster and has for years.

Sexton at 12 should only happen in unavoidable situations. And it's not hard to see why:

1. We only have 1 other OH in the side at the moment and he is not as good as Sexton and is at the tail end of his career.

2. We have a first choice 12 in Darce who is also at the tail end of his career and no clear replacement for him. Given point 1 that replacement will not be Sexton. McFadden is a far more likely and reasonable choice.

Of course instead we move a winger to outside centre (although in fairness Earls is doing well there now), we move our OH to inside centre, our winger (who is now an outside centre) to full back, move another winger to outside centre (who hasn't played there at club level for a while) and finally move a centre to the wing.

EDIT: rrpc - I think the contradiction in all of this is that Kidneys conservatism in terms of selection is that he sticks with who he knows. That he's dicking around with their position on the pitch that much to make room for those replacements he knows proves his conservatism in that sense.

1. most would not agree with your first two points in that ogara is playing very good rugby at the moment and secondly, mcfadden is the natural successor to darcy - he isn't (i think well see earls and bod in the centre for the next couple of years) - so, having sexton playing 12 at the moment could be regarded as a fairly unavoidable situation.

All those changes come about nowadays because players are expected to be able to play more than one position. With all the resources the lions had with them, Tommy Bowe ended up starting a test match at 13 for the first time. Contepomi had no problem switching from 10 to 12 to fullback as well - probably because he was talented enough to do it.

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

1. most would not agree with your first two points in that ogara is playing very good rugby at the moment and secondly, mcfadden is the natural successor to darcy - he isn't (i think well see earls and bod in the centre for the next couple of years) - so, having sexton playing 12 at the moment could be regarded as a fairly unavoidable situation.

yet more players that aren't inside centres?

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

1. most would not agree with your first two points in that ogara is playing very good rugby at the moment and secondly, mcfadden is the natural successor to darcy - he isn't (i think well see earls and bod in the centre for the next couple of years) - so, having sexton playing 12 at the moment could be regarded as a fairly unavoidable situation.

All those changes come about nowadays because players are expected to be able to play more than one position. With all the resources the lions had with them, Tommy Bowe ended up starting a test match at 13 for the first time. Contepomi had no problem switching from 10 to 12 to fullback as well - probably because he was talented enough to do it.

So he isnt a winger or an outside centre, hes now an inside centre :eek:

irishbucsfan

I'd be happy with a BOD, Earls partnership.

I'm not convinced by McFadden tbh. I think BOD/Earls could work for a year and hopefully by then we could phase Luke Marshall or someone in.

leftleg

And when did Conters play fullback??

jm08

Tox56 wrote: »

This argument seems to be going round in circles and ultimately off topic.

All I will say is, McFadden has a future at 12 for both Leinster and (hopefully) Ireland. Why on earth would you put an international OH to 12 just to accomodate an OH who has no future with Ireland, while at the same time changing half the backline?

If you have to put ROG on, take off Sexton. If you want a new 12, put on McFadden.

don't think he is doing it to accommodate an oh that has no future for ireland . madigan and keatley have a fair bit to go yet before anyone would be remotely confident of them playing international rugby against a top 10 country.

irishbucsfan

Keith Earls has actually played 12 for Ireland A

I would be happy to see BOD/Earls as I feel they're the best partnership available until someone else appears.

There's about to be a massive transition at center though. Who knows what we'll see at 2015. Marshall/Macken, Farrell/Cave, Hanrahan/Earls, McFadden/Griffin. Who knows.

tolosenc

jm08 wrote: »

don't think he is doing it to accommodate an oh that has no future for ireland . madigan and keatley have a fair bit to go yet before anyone would be remotely confident of them playing international rugby against a top 10 country.

ROG will be done with Ireland, possibly this weekend. I'd be very surprised if he was hanging around at the next 6N.

jm08

leftleg wrote: »

So he isnt a winger or an outside centre, hes now an inside centre :eek:

he played there for Ireland a in churchill cup. You can see him scoring a try against the maori if you do a search on utube for "earls scores against the Maori'. sexton was 10 and cave was 13.

Tox56

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Keith Earls has actually played 12 for Ireland A

I would be happy to see BOD/Earls as I feel they're the best partnership available until someone else appears.

There's about to be a massive transition at center though. Who knows what we'll see at 2015. Marshall/Macken, Farrell/Cave, Hanrahan/Earls, McFadden/Griffin. Who knows.

BOD at 12? Or Earls at 12?

jm08

leftleg wrote: »

And when did Conters play fullback??

For argentina a few times - probs because of injuries.

thomond2006

Conters appeared at fullback for Toulon (by necessity) in a top 14 playoff and was class.

jm08

Tox56 wrote: »

BOD at 12? Or Earls at 12?

bod at 12, but he might have 13 on his back. earls has pace which is what we could do with.

irishbucsfan

Tox56 wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Keith Earls has actually played 12 for Ireland A

I would be happy to see BOD/Earls as I feel they're the best partnership available until someone else appears.

There's about to be a massive transition at center though. Who knows what we'll see at 2015. Marshall/Macken, Farrell/Cave, Hanrahan/Earls, McFadden/Griffin. Who knows.

BOD at 12? Or Earls at 12?

BOD at 12.

BOD has lost the threat of an outside break over the years. His threat is his creativity, general genius, skill AMD of course that defense.

I don't think its the most likely scenario at all but I could see BOD inside Earls in attack and the two switching in defense.

Podge_irl

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The truth is Paddy Wallace would clearly be the best option at 12 based on recent form. It's a shame we won't see him there.

It's a real shame, but the writing was on the wall for Wallace when last year D'Arcy had a couple very poor outings and Wallace (who was inexplicably on the bench) still wasn't brought on. I'd be happier with either himself or McFadden at 12.

Podge_irl

thomond2006 wrote: »

Conters appeared at fullback for Toulon (by necessity) in a top 14 playoff and was class.

Conters is just a class player though. Never thought 10 was his best position - he worked best at 12 and I can definitely see how he could be brilliant at 15. That bit of extra time and more freedom to do something a bit crazy while your team can still have control at 10.

Tox56

irishbucsfan wrote: »

BOD at 12.

BOD has lost the threat of an outside break over the years. His threat is his creativity, general genius, skill AMD of course that defense.

I don't think its the most likely scenario at all but I could see BOD inside Earls in attack and the two switching in defense.

I would rather someone learns to play 12 inside of BOD, rather than playing two '13s', or a 13 and a wing/centre/fullback or whatever Earls is. That's a very temporary solution that wouldn't necessarily help Earls' developement if he is kept at 13.

Most of all I would like to see several different combinations tried if possible.

irishbucsfan

Tox56 wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

BOD at 12.

BOD has lost the threat of an outside break over the years. His threat is his creativity, general genius, skill AMD of course that defense.

I don't think its the most likely scenario at all but I could see BOD inside Earls in attack and the two switching in defense.

I would rather someone learns to play 12 inside of BOD, rather than playing two '13s', or a 13 and a wing/centre/fullback or whatever Earls is. That's a very temporary solution that wouldn't necessarily help Earls' developement if he is kept at 13.

Most of all I would like to see several different combinations tried if possible.

Sure if we have a 12 with a long term future putting his hand up then absolutely pair him with BOD.

At the moment we don't have that though. There is one 12 in the country putting his hand up and that's Paddy Wallace. Next season I'm quite sure we'll see D'Arcy, Downey and Wallace as the starting 12s again. Hopefully beyond that we'll see real options emerge... Spence, Hanrahan, Reid, Farrell...

McFadden is being suggested by default really. Is he really the future at 12? I haven't seen much to suggest that yet.

WeeBushy

thomond2006 wrote: »

Conters appeared at fullback for Toulon (by necessity) in a top 14 playoff and was class.

He played there a few times in his first season with Leinster when they botched up his HC registration as well. I remember not being very impressed with him as a player at the time. How very wrong I was.

CatFromHue

I'm not sure on McFadden at 12 for Ireland and to a lesser extent Leinster. I am sure he is a better alternative than Sexton though.

Tox56

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Sure if we have a 12 with a long term future putting his hand up then absolutely pair him with BOD.

At the moment we don't have that though. There is one 12 in the country putting his hand up and that's Paddy Wallace. Next season I'm quite sure we'll see D'Arcy, Downey and Wallace as the starting 12s again. Hopefully beyond that we'll see real options emerge... Spence, Hanrahan, Reid, Farrell...

McFadden is being suggested by default really. Is he really the future at 12? I haven't seen much to suggest that yet.

I've seen McFadden as a D'Arcy 2.0 type player. I would go as far to say he is close to a direct replacement. Very soon, if not next year, I can see D'Arcy getting less and less gametime at the expense of McFadden.

His versatility does hurt him though for Ireland, this isn't as much of an issue for Leinster with the amount of versatile players there.

CatFromHue

If you compare D'arcy in his pomp to McFadden at the moment there is a bit of a difference. Remember we're talking about a two times Lions tourist and World Player of the Year nominee.