Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Podge_irl · 13-03-2012 1:51pm

leftleg wrote: »

wrong he played a few outside conters; afaik against wasps in the RDS in 09; Cheika dropped it quickly though as it didn't work

I thought Conters always went out to inside centre when they played together? Sexton didn't start that game anyway.

irishbucsfan · 13-03-2012 1:52pm

leftleg wrote: »

Podge_irl wrote: »

Not starting Sexton at 12 isn't conservative, it's common sense. He has started ZERO games there in his career.

wrong he played a few outside conters; afaik against wasps in the RDS in 09; Cheika dropped it quickly though as it didn't work

I only remember contepomi at 12 and Sexton at 10. Never Sexton at 12.

Then Nacewa was tried at 10.

I may be remembering things wrong.

leftleg · 13-03-2012 1:57pm

nope i think im wrong on that particular game; Sexton did come on but as a sub

LEINSTER: Girvan Dempsey; Shane Horgan, Brian O'Driscoll, Luke Fitzgerald, Rob Kearney; Felipe Contepomi, Chris Whitaker; Stan Wright, Bernard Jackman, CJ Van Der Linde, Leo Cullen (capt), Malcolm O'Kelly, Rocky Elsom, Shane Jennings, Jamie Heaslip.

Replacements: John Fogarty, Cian Healy, Devin Toner, Stephen Keogh, Chris Keane, Jonathan Sexton, Gary Brown.

Sorry guys; Your right; Kidney is mad as a brush and the only winner here is ROG with the easy caps to "steady the ship"

jm08 · 13-03-2012 2:01pm

leftleg wrote: »

"Assuming Gordon D'Arcy is fit and firing, his presence will be crucial in helping whoever is picked at No 13. The debate centres around Fergus McFadden, Keith Earls and Paddy Wallace"

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/tony-ward-earls-can-become-centre-of-attention-2983593.html

Absolute Lunacy and anyone who thinks that Sexton at 12 is a viable solution to anything other than rog getting extra caps for no reason is as mad as Tony Ward.

Of course Horgan will say that after the Scotland game.

a) he is very very close to Sexton
b) he will never say a bad word about any Leinster player including d'arcy

he must have fallen out with d'arcy and sexton then because he thinks the sexton-ogara axis is working and that puts d'arcy on the bench and sexton out of his fav position

link to what he says in at about 2.42 on rte player.

GerM · 13-03-2012 2:02pm

I'm pretty sure Sexton has never played 12 for Leinster. Contepomi was always at 12, including against Wasps in 2008 if you watch it back. Sexton played 15 once for Ireland A and that was the only time I've seen him not at 10. Playing him 12 is bizarre. He has no future there. I've no issue with ROG coming in when suitable but Sexton at 12 is a waste of time. He has absolutely no future there. There are several internationals who have played 12 and could be 12 in the future that would benefit far more from it. With Sexton being our only international standard 10 in a year more than likely, playing him in another position at the expense of giving another international experience there is pointless.

.ak · 13-03-2012 2:04pm

jm08 wrote: »

he must have fallen out with d'arcy and sexton then because he thinks the sexton-ogara axis is working and that puts d'arcy on the bench and sexton out of his fav position

link to what he says in at about 2.42 on rte player.

You're missing the point completely. Who cares if Shaggy thinks Sexton is a better option than Darce? Darce is off form, I'd rather see Wallace (ugh) have a go there than Darce at the moment.

The point is we have better 12s to play there rather than moving our best OH out of position...

jm08 · 13-03-2012 2:06pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Not starting Sexton at 12 isn't conservative, it's common sense. He has started ZERO games there in his career.

argue it with ward. point is that as claimed here, farrelly isn't the only one who has come up with the idea of sexton-ogara because of darcy lack of form.

im happy with darcy at 12 and sexton at rather than change the centre partnership again - earls and darcy are probably only getting used to each other.

jm08 · 13-03-2012 2:08pm

.ak wrote: »

You're missing the point completely. Who cares if Shaggy thinks Sexton is a better option than Darce? Darce is off form, I'd rather see Wallace (ugh) have a go there than Darce at the moment.

The point is we have better 12s to play there rather than moving our best OH out of position...

point is that as claimed here farrelly isnt the only one who has come up with the notion of sexton-ogara because of darcys lack of form.

13-03-2012 2:09pm

jm08 wrote: »

point is that as claimed here farrelly isnt the only one who has come up with the notion of sexton-ogara because of darcys lack of form.

Great minds think alike, but fools seldom differ

irishbucsfan · 13-03-2012 2:14pm

The truth is Paddy Wallace would clearly be the best option at 12 based on recent form. It's a shame we won't see him there.

jm08 · 13-03-2012 2:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Great minds think alike, but fools seldom differ

so .ak podge and the rest here are all fools :eek:

Dave6858 · 13-03-2012 2:16pm

Sexton at 12 is utter madness...He is a world class 10 and neede to be left to finish out games at that position.The WC was the real cut off point for ROG,let him warm the bench for the remainder of the 6N but only as a replacement if Sexton gets injured.,its time to change the guard and lets start discussing who Sextons understudy should be!

.ak · 13-03-2012 2:18pm

jm08 wrote: »

so .ak podge and the rest here are all fools :eek:

...and everyone else on this forum bar you.

jm08 · 13-03-2012 2:29pm

.ak wrote: »

...and everyone else on this forum bar you.

nope. most here are posters who might have a different opinion .

irishbucsfan · 13-03-2012 2:31pm

jm08 wrote: »

.ak wrote: »

...and everyone else on this forum bar you.

nope. most here are posters who might have a different opinion .

And how many do you think thought Paddy Wallace was an option at 13?

rrpc · 13-03-2012 2:34pm

jm08 wrote: »

nope. most here are posters who might have a different opinion .

To resume the topic of discussion; the idea of having your only two out-halves on the pitch at the same time is utter madness.

And people say Kidney is too conservative? :eek:

Mad as a hatter, I say. Off his trolley and should be locked away

.ak · 13-03-2012 2:41pm

jm08 wrote: »

nope. most here are posters who might have a different opinion .

Okay, well when someone comes on here and posts that they think ROG at 10 and Sexton at 12 is a good idea I'd love to hear their reasons.

And not just 'Well X Pundit said so, so it must be true.'

molloyjh · 13-03-2012 2:43pm

touts wrote: »

Feck all options at Centre is the problem.

Other than McFadden, who plays 12 regularly for Leinster and has for years.

jm08 wrote: »

shane horgan said after the match on sat that he thought it was working very well having sexton at 12 and ogara at 10. thought in the start that it was just a back-up option, but it is very effective.

tony ward reckons that its d'arcy or sexton at 12, but that kidney would be too conservative to go with sexton at 12.

Sexton at 12 should only happen in unavoidable situations. And it's not hard to see why:

1. We only have 1 other OH in the side at the moment and he is not as good as Sexton and is at the tail end of his career.

2. We have a first choice 12 in Darce who is also at the tail end of his career and no clear replacement for him. Given point 1 that replacement will not be Sexton. McFadden is a far more likely and reasonable choice.

Of course instead we move a winger to outside centre (although in fairness Earls is doing well there now), we move our OH to inside centre, our winger (who is now an outside centre) to full back, move another winger to outside centre (who hasn't played there at club level for a while) and finally move a centre to the wing.

EDIT: rrpc - I think the contradiction in all of this is that Kidneys conservatism in terms of selection is that he sticks with who he knows. That he's dicking around with their position on the pitch that much to make room for those replacements he knows proves his conservatism in that sense.

rrpc · 13-03-2012 2:45pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Other than McFadden, who plays 12 regularly for Leinster and has for years.

Sexton at 12 should only happen in unavoidable situations. And it's not hard to see why:

1. We only have 1 other OH in the side at the moment and he is not as good as Sexton and is at the tail end of his career.

2. We have a first choice 12 in Darce who is also at the tail end of his career and no clear replacement for him. Given point 1 that replacement will not be Sexton. McFadden is a far more likely and reasonable choice.

Of course instead we move a winger to outside centre (although in fairness Earls is doing well there now), we move our OH to inside centre, our winger (who is now an outside centre) to full back, move another winger to outside centre (who hasn't played there at club level for a while) and finally move a centre to the wing.

I think the last option would suit Deccie best. He seems to like shuffling backs like a deck of cards and throws in the odd half back as a kind of joker.

.ak · 13-03-2012 2:48pm

rrpc wrote: »

I think the last option would suit Deccie best. He seems to like shuffling backs like a deck of cards and throws in the odd half back as a kind of joker.

Thing is I wouldn't mind if it was effective...

jm08 · 13-03-2012 3:03pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

And how many do you think thought Paddy Wallace was an option at 13?

he gets a mention as one of the few starting centres for the provinces who were available at the time. an option with darcy at 13 and wallace at 12 could have been a runner.

he dismissed it as not a runner immediately.

.ak · 13-03-2012 3:04pm

jm08 wrote: »

he gets a mention as one of the few starting centres for the provinces who were available at the time. an option with darcy at 13 and wallace at 12 could have been a runner.

he dismissed it as not a runner immediately.

But why even mention it? It's just an example of how his mind (doesn't) work imo.

jm08 · 13-03-2012 3:09pm

rrpc wrote: »

To resume the topic of discussion; the idea of having your only two out-halves on the pitch at the same time is utter madness.

And people say Kidney is too conservative? :eek:

Mad as a hatter, I say. Off his trolley and should be locked away

contempomi for every team he plays for either starts at 10 or 12 - he usually plays the 80 mins; Isa & Sexton; Ogara & warwick.

irishbucsfan · 13-03-2012 3:13pm

jm08 wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

And how many do you think thought Paddy Wallace was an option at 13?

he gets a mention as one of the few starting centres for the provinces who were available at the time. an option with darcy at 13 and wallace at 12 could have been a runner.

he dismissed it as not a runner immediately.

You don't need to defend him, Tony Ward regularly gets things spectacularly wrong. He's definitely one of, if not THE weakest out there. His commentary is appallingly misinformed for a man of his background.

Is Tony Buckley backup to Mike Ross as well?

rrpc · 13-03-2012 3:14pm

jm08 wrote: »

contempomi for every team he plays for either starts at 10 or 12 - he usually plays the 80 mins; Isa & Sexton; Ogara & warwick.

Contepomi always played 12 for Argentina. Not so much for Leinster and there were always options on the bench. Same with Isa and Sexton. Warwick and ROG, can't remember who the bench option was, but then nobody liked to bench for ROG; splintersville...

jm08 · 13-03-2012 3:14pm

.ak wrote: »

Okay, well when someone comes on here and posts that they think ROG at 10 and Sexton at 12 is a good idea I'd love to hear their reasons.

And not just 'Well X Pundit said so, so it must be true.'

purely because sexton is very good defensively and can play at 12.

darcy's form isnt great.

2nd playmaker on the pitch.

sexton gets as much gametime as possible at international level when he isn't under so much pressure to perform. think he plays better when ogara is on the pitch.

just for the record, its just some of the reasons why youd do that.

13-03-2012 3:15pm

jm08 wrote: »

think he plays better when ogara is on the pitch.

:eek::eek::eek:

.ak · 13-03-2012 3:16pm

jm08 wrote: »

contempomi for every team he plays for either starts at 10 or 12 - he usually plays the 80 mins; Isa & Sexton; Ogara & warwick.

Isa is a terrible 10 though... He was signed at 10 in fairness, but quickly found his way to his best position. So that point doesn't really stand. O'Gara will be gone by next year, so why have Sexton at 12 when he's going to be used at 10 and never moved for the foreseeable future?

.ak · 13-03-2012 3:18pm

jm08 wrote: »

purely because sexton is very good defensively and can play at 12.

darcy's form isnt great.

2nd playmaker on the pitch.

sexton gets as much gametime as possible at international level when he isn't under so much pressure to perform. think he plays better when ogara is on the pitch.

just for the record, its just some of the reasons why youd do that.

Are you serious? The games where ROG has come on with a decent bit of time at the end has turned our backline even more stagnant. Sexton makes a couple of nice tackles, but that's about. It totally kills his ability to link up with the backline. I see what you and Kidney are getting at, having a 2nd 5/8th and all that... but Sexton doesn't play like that when ROG comes on. Just doesn't happen.

If Darcy's form isn't great, then replace him with a h-cup standard 12, not an international OH...

jm08 · 13-03-2012 3:22pm

rrpc wrote: »

Contepomi always played 12 for Argentina. Not so much for Leinster and there were always options on the bench. Same with Isa and Sexton. Warwick and ROG, can't remember who the bench option was, but then nobody liked to bench for ROG; splintersville...

its in reponse to a poster who claimed you'd never have your outhalf and backup outhalf on the pitch at the same time.

it happens all the time if the options are too good to leave on the bench.

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

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