Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

irishbucsfan

Willie John should just be in there for the team talk. Greatest lions captain of all time or so they say.

My dad always tells a great story about playing in a 7s competition up in Belfast. It was a competition for businesses. They were waiting on the pitch for their next opposition and out trotted Willie John and his mates from the local bank branch. Can you imagine something like that happening these days!

Anyway back on topic. Kidney grumble grumble

jm08

Deleted User wrote: »

I wasn't aware that all players were able to play at the top for an infinite level of time.

My mistake.

Criticising the selection of John Hayes in 2010 has almost nothing to do with John Hayes of the early 2000s.

If Willie John McBride was selected to replace POC tomorrow, would you stick up for the selection based on how well he played "way back when"?

Podge was criticising Hayes' scrummaging over his career, not his selection in the AIs. I'm pointing out it must not have been that poor to achieve all that he has achieved.

Your comment about Willie John is irrelevant. A much closer comparison would be between Mal okelly and DOC.

edit: there was life left in the auld bull in the magners final though

jm08

GerM wrote: »

Pfft. Doubtful....WJM played for Ulster.

Serious questions need to be asked about Donal Lenihan's continued omission from the side though. Clearly Feek's input is dictating that.

I doubt it, he hasn't objected to 37 year old brad thorn coming to Leinster.

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

there was life left in the auld bull in the magners final though

If your aluding to the penalty try at the end; Stan Wright was at tight head for Leinster and was clearly already in Paris in his head; Strauss was playing flanker and a rookie Hooker in the middel; all that a week after a HCup victory.

jm08

padser wrote: »

Ross was, quite obviously, the only option capable of fulfilling the primary role of TH for Ireland (had Stan Wright been available I'd have been happy for him to be ahead of Ross).

Buckley being ahead of Ross was clearly an awful awful call by Kidney.

37 yr old Hayes ahead of him, both in terms of winning games in AIs and building for a WC 1 yr and circa 10 games away, was absolute insane. I honestly think that for that alone DK should not be in his job. It's among the worst / inexplicable calls I've ever seen a coach make (in any sport)

Hang on a second here ... what a load of bull ...

Healy was making his debut against Australia and Ireland managed a draw with Hayes as the th.

Ireland won the game against SA (mainly because poc with the bull lifting him destroyed the best lineout in the world - and their front row wasn't too shabby either).

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

Podge was criticising Hayes' scrummaging over his career, not his selection in the AIs. I'm pointing out it must not have been that poor to achieve all that he has achieved.

I wasn't actually. I was just talking about the AIs. That said Hayes was never more than an adequate scrummager and he wasn't even that for the last couple seasons of his career.

Tox56

jm08 wrote: »

Hang on a second here ... what a load of bull ...

Healy was making his debut against Australia and Ireland managed a draw with Hayes as the th.

Ireland won the game against SA (mainly because poc with the bull lifting him destroyed the best lineout in the world - and their front row wasn't too shabby either).

What makes you think Hayes did better than the alternatives? This is like the DOC argument, he is "doing a job", but nothing the alternatives couldn't offer, given the chance.

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

Hang on a second here ... what a load of bull ...

Healy was making his debut against Australia and Ireland managed a draw with Hayes as the th.

Ireland won the game against SA (mainly because poc with the bull lifting him destroyed the best lineout in the world - and their front row wasn't too shabby either).

We were destroyed in the scrum against Australia; simple as

In the SA game apparently Small had learned the SA teams calls in SA language and had give n the lads the insider knowledge; hence the next year in the AIs our lineout was found out against them; Hayes wasnt the secret weapon there, Gert Small was

jm08

leftleg wrote: »

If your aluding to the penalty try at the end; Stan Wright was at tight head for Leinster and was clearly already in Paris in his head; Strauss was playing flanker and a rookie Hooker in the middel; all that a week after a HCup victory.

still, for a geriatric like hayes to finish his career winning two penalties after playing for 77 mins of the match takes some doing

jm08

leftleg wrote: »

We were destroyed in the scrum against Australia; simple as

In the SA game apparently Small had learned the SA teams calls in SA language and had give n the lads the insider knowledge; hence the next year in the AIs our lineout was found out against them; Hayes wasnt the secret weapon there, Gert Small was

absolutely, but that might have had something to do with healy, it being his first test start.

Ireland destroyed australia in the lineout though (you know this mythical lifting lark does make a difference).

and you are way off about Small knowing the team calls. :eek: that is something in your imagination ....


this is what happened:

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/BoksOnTour/The-Irish-counted-in-Afrikaans-20091129

molloyjh

jm08 wrote: »

absolutely, but that might have had something to do with healy, it being his first test start.

Ireland destroyed australia in the lineout though (you know this mythical lifting lark does make a difference).

and you are way off about Small knowing the team calls. :eek: that is something in your imagination ....


this is what happened:

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/BoksOnTour/The-Irish-counted-in-Afrikaans-20091129

It says in the very article you referenced that Smal knew their lineout plays and that he taught the Irish lads Afrikaan so that they could read them. You're happy to credit a great display by Hayes by talking about his line-out lifting and when shown this wasn't all Hayes by a long-shot you are happy to revert to bashing Healy for the problems in the scrum. Seriously!?

There's one-eyed and then there's one-eyed... :rolleyes:

padser

jm08 wrote: »

padser wrote: »

Ross was, quite obviously, the only option capable of fulfilling the primary role of TH for Ireland (had Stan Wright been available I'd have been happy for him to be ahead of Ross).

Buckley being ahead of Ross was clearly an awful awful call by Kidney.

37 yr old Hayes ahead of him, both in terms of winning games in AIs and building for a WC 1 yr and circa 10 games away, was absolute insane. I honestly think that for that alone DK should not be in his job. It's among the worst / inexplicable calls I've ever seen a coach make (in any sport)

Hang on a second here ... what a load of bull ...

Healy was making his debut against Australia and Ireland managed a draw with Hayes as the th.

Ireland won the game against SA (mainly because poc with the bull lifting him destroyed the best lineout in the world - and their front row wasn't too shabby either).

I give up.

There is no way I can argue with someone who genuinely believes Hayes instead of Ross was a defensible call to make in 2010.

It's really really like arguing with religious extremists. Logic is absolutely useless and they just continue to spout the same rubbish over and over again.

So you win.

Hayes was clearly the better prop.

leftleg

padser wrote: »

I give up.

There is no way I can argue with someone who genuinely believes Hayes instead of Ross was a defensible call to make in 2010.

It's really really like arguing with religious extremists. Logic is absolutely useless and they just continue to spout the same rubbish over and over again.

So you win.

Hayes was clearly the better prop.

No he wasnt

jm08

molloyjh wrote: »

It says in the very article you referenced that Smal knew their lineout plays and that he taught the Irish lads Afrikaan so that they could read them. You're happy to credit a great display by Hayes by talking about his line-out lifting and when shown this wasn't all Hayes by a long-shot you are happy to revert to bashing Healy for the problems in the scrum. Seriously!?

There's one-eyed and then there's one-eyed... :rolleyes:

a) thats what they thought. But in fact according to doc, smal had nothing to do with it as he explained that he came across POC one evening learning how to count in africaans on utube!

“We’re lucky we have a lunatic like O’Connell who is willing to learn Afrikaans to pick off a few calls and stuff like that,” he trumpets before describing his brush with multiculturalism.


“I called up to his room one time and he had the YouTube on and some woman counting to 10 in Afrikaans. I was like ‘what the f*** is going on here?’ He was getting his ear into hear and to be fair he did pick off an awful lot of their calls. They started calling in a huddle. I remember himself and Victor Matfield chatting about it afterwards. They probably gave us too much credit the year after when they wiped the floor with us in the lineout. It’s good but it’s the way it’s gone, it just shows professional sport, you have to put the work and the hours in off the pitch.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0309/1224291662418.html

edit: i'm not bashing Healy. He was a kid then in his first or2nd start and deserved a bit of space. He is now turning into a world class prop which is amazing considering he is so young.

Tox56

What on earth has this got to do with Hayes being better than Ross..

jm08

Tox56 wrote: »

What on earth has this got to do with Hayes being better than Ross..

what is 'this'

danthefan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGKk38073ng

From 2:23 on, the scrums from the game v Aus, Healy's first cap. In the 2nd half in particular Hayes gets absolutely minced, unfortunately.

CatFromHue

danthefan wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGKk38073ng

From 2:23 on, the scrums from the game v Aus, Healy's first cap. In the 2nd half in particular Hayes gets absolutely minced, unfortunately.

Wow that was almost like a WW2 propaganda film. From looking at it you'd never believe we managed to draw that game.

According to ESPN we won 4 scrums on our own feed but lost 3! Compared to winning all 12 and losing none in the RWC

leftleg

danthefan wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGKk38073ng

From 2:23 on, the scrums from the game v Aus, Healy's first cap. In the 2nd half in particular Hayes gets absolutely minced, unfortunately.

jeez the irish scrums have come on so much since then; watch this in comparison on what is probably against a much stronger scrum

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzRtwC_-k6U

jm08

danthefan wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGKk38073ng

From 2:23 on, the scrums from the game v Aus, Healy's first cap. In the 2nd half in particular Hayes gets absolutely minced, unfortunately.

what a patriot. trall the internet to find an australian generated synopsis of the game that shows the wallabies in a good light and John Hayes in a poor light. take a bow man!

Tox56

jm08 wrote: »

what a patriot. trall the internet to find an australian generated synopsis of the game that shows the wallabies in a good light and John Hayes in a poor light. take a bow man!

The... irony..

jm08

Tox56 wrote: »

The... irony..

well, you have to admit i wasn't having a dig at healy who was shown in a right mess in one of those scrums in that viideo that danthesuperirishfan posted

danthefan

jm08 wrote: »

what a patriot. trall the internet to find an australian generated synopsis of the game that shows the wallabies in a good light and John Hayes in a poor light. take a bow man!

If you could spell or use punctuation I'd be positive you were the reincarnation of an old poster from here.

jm08

danthefan wrote: »

If you could spell or use punctuation I'd be positive you were the reincarnation of an old poster from here.

and what has that got to do with you tralling the internet to find aussie videos of brian o'driscoll amonst others being shown up in a bad light .

danthefan

I have no idea what "tralling" is.

justsomebloke

danthefan wrote: »

I have no idea what "tralling" is.

It's what jm08 is trying to do

On which note

Jm08 please improve the quality of your posting as your borderline trolling hasn't gone unnoticed

molloyjh

jm08 wrote: »

danthefan wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGKk38073ng

From 2:23 on, the scrums from the game v Aus, Healy's first cap. In the 2nd half in particular Hayes gets absolutely minced, unfortunately.

what a patriot. trall the internet to find an australian generated synopsis of the game that shows the wallabies in a good light and John Hayes in a poor light. take a bow man!

Yes because the first priority of the Aussies is the make John Hayes look bad. Just face it, Hayes was a poor scrummager. Ross should have been called up for the 2010 AIs because Hayes couldn't do the basics, legend and all that he is.

justsomebloke

To everyone else don't feed the trolls, it's match weekend and they will be out enforce and things will be a lot easier if you ignore them

jm08

molloyjh wrote: »

Yes because the first priority of the Aussies is the make John Hayes look bad. Just face it, Hayes was a poor scrummager. Ross should have been called up for the 2010 AIs because Hayes couldn't do the basics, legend and all that he is.

ah, no. the first priority of the aussies is to put together the positives for their game. this will probably mean that they won't be showing the lineout or any aspect of the game where ireland was better than them.

only point i want to make about hayes is that he was never a destructive scrummager but he generally held his own. i'm sure you haven't missed the fact that the loosehead, hooker and locks also have a big say in how a scrum has turned out and the big improvement in Ireland's scrummaging is not solely down to mike ross. healy should be applauded for his efforts as well.

probably banned for this post, but it doesn't matter as i usually stay well away from here when ireland are playing.

danthefan

Kaino is out for the summer tour, he's one of the best players in the world so that will hurt NZ. They've some depth though in the backrow.