Enda wins

Deise Tom

Laminations wrote: »

If they are the numbers then that is one vote in the difference. Pascal O'Donahue is the chairman and he was on Brutons side. It's a bit low to suggest they rigged the vote, even FF wouldn't do that

Who said the vote was rigged.

Deise Tom

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

And the word is that most of the Senators and MEPs (god only knows why) voted for Kenny, so a majority of the parliamentary party didn't think Kenny had the capability to be taoiseach material.

They might be looking for jobs for a bit longer if Enda was to get in.

EnoughIsEnough

Deise Tom wrote: »

They might be looking for jobs for a bit longer if Enda was to get in.

As regards the existing T.D.s:

with the majority of the shadow Front Bench in open revolt Enda had the room to promise elevation to the Front Bench for 9+ back benchers and when F.G. are in power at the next election the perks of being Minister or Minister of State - nott hat any F.G. td would be swayed by thoughts of same - no never not them

As regards the Senators :

there are those existing Senators looking to remain in their retirement home
and
those who aspire to follow them

and Enda as the next Taoiseach can nominate his backers via the Taoiseach's nominations.

On reflection we all know that Enda won on pure merit in a clear transparent process. Long live democracy !!!!!!

sceptre

EnoughIsEnough wrote: »

As regards the existing T.D.s:

with the majority of the shadow Front Bench in open revolt Enda had the room to promise elevation to the Front Bench for 9+ back benchers and when F.G. are in power at the next election the perks of being Minister or Minister of State

While deals like that are probably unpalatable to lots of people, it's the way most political party leadership battles work wherever they take place.

Sulmac

EnoughIsEnough wrote: »

As regards the Senators :

there are those existing Senators looking to remain in their retirement home
and
those who aspire to follow them

and Enda as the next Taoiseach can nominate his backers via the Taoiseach's nominations.

Those same Senators are probably quick to forget that one of Enda's main policies if he gets into government is to abolish the Seanad.

EnoughIsEnough

Sulmac wrote: »

Those same Senators are probably quick to forget that one of Enda's main policies if he gets into government is to abolish the Seanad.

Now maybe you haver hit on the reason for a majority of sitting Senators support - what chances Enda will re-assess that decision.

Surely not. Not Enda the Good. Please say it is not true !! lol

goat2

what i love about this, we will have a whole new fg party when he pick his line up for front row seats, we need new blood in every party, need to clean out closets

Amtmann

Gatsbygirl wrote: »

One of the most depressing observations of the day in my opinion is that the behaviour of the pro-Kenny group in the aftermath of the result was a replica of what one would expect from a group of gombeen FFers! The reason that Bruton and his supporters appeal to a no non-traditional FG voter, like myself, is that they come across as measured, professional, articulate and a refreshing change from the traditional 'our boy' wink-wink-nudge-nudge stuff that passes for political representation in this country.

So depressing that such a great opportunity for a new, fresh and policy driven alternative government has been squandered..

Absolutely. The GAA jersey mentality on full display in all its ugliness. Uncouth, unprofessional and uninspiring.

Deise Tom

Sulmac wrote: »

Those same Senators are probably quick to forget that one of Enda's main policies if he gets into government is to abolish the Seanad.

He cant get rid of those now that voted for him if he gets in next time around, or can he.

Aidric

Discodog wrote: »

Enda the great reuniter of the party that he has now split in two. His priorities are:

1. Himself

2. The Party

3. The Country

Pretty much sums it up for me. This result was a two fingers to the Irish electorate. The backslapping of Kenny from politicians you wouldn't see from one election to the next captured the essence of it all.
It's ironic that the man who is credited with bringing the party back from almost ruin will imo lead them full circle back to where he started.

Iwasfrozen

Aidric wrote: »

Pretty much sums it up for me. This result was a two fingers to the Irish electorate. The backslapping of Kenny from politicians you wouldn't see from one election to the next captured the essence of it all.
It's ironic that the man who is credited with bringing the party back from almost ruin will imo lead them full circle back to where he started.

How do you make that one out? The party is intitled to vote for the person they think will best serve the country as taoiseach. They have been given this power by the people who voted for them.

Enda may not be the most charismatic of leaders but he has shown a stubborn ruthlessness that will serve him well if he ever does obtain the highest office in the country.

That's the kind of guy I want to see standing up to the unions.

Discodog

Enda did not put down a rebellion. He failed to listen. He showed a total stubbornness to respect the views of those that he supposedly respected enough to put on his front bench. He showed weakness not strength.

Now FG are continuing to tell us that we are wrong & that we do not realise how good their leader really is. Enda treated the dissenters as the ignorant enemy & now he is treating the electorate in the same way. The refusal to release to figures tells us that the vote was very close. Had it of been a good victory for Enda they would of shouted the numbers from the rooftops.

There is a huge difference between confidence, a quality that is needed in a leader & arrogance. FG believe that the popularity of Enda is not a factor as we will have no choice but to vote for them. This will prove to be a huge mistake.

FG need a leader under 40 years of age. They have not only polarised into the rural party but also the geriatric party. They are disenfranchising themselves from most of the Country.

I can see a situation where FF will get back in. No matter how unpopular a government is people will not vote for someone that they don't believe in, as Cameron & the Tories discovered. They should of won a landslide.

rugbyman

Disco dog

I disagree with most of what you have said but there are some pieces where we agree.


"He showed a total stubbornness to respect the views of those that he supposedly respected enough to put on his front bench. "

there is no evidence of this. They made it known to him that the majority of the front bench had no confidence. There is no onus on a leader to roll over at this stage. He put it up to them, they did not convince the parliamentary party that they were right.


" FG believe that the popularity of Enda is not a factor as we will have no choice but to vote for them. "

I disagree, I think most people in FG would agree that there is a downside to the EK popularity thing. All votes have to be earned.
( as a rider to this FG and more so Labour are hoping to cash in on disaffected FF public sector votes. Thats why Lab is completely mute and EK not as vocal as I would like him to be on future cut backs)


" FG need a leader under 40 years of age"

I dont know about "need". But " could do with" certainly. There is not one available ,and certainly not one to be arrived at in a blood letting coup.
The next leader wil fit in that category.

"I can see a situation where FF will get back in."

I can can think of no less likely a scenario.



Whew thats a lot of pasting etc for me.!

I have come to believe ,and have said so that a lot of the anti EK ppeople on here have/had no intention of voting for him.

My predictions are that

A EK will be taoiseach
b FG will gain a few more seats


I dont know if one can make negative predictions but here is one.



1 E Gilmore could not bring Labour to pass out FG and therefore become Taoiseach. This would involve them getting 30 more seats and FG losing some.



they say a week is a long time in politics.
I imagine that a number of the Club of Nine, which became Eleven are wondering today just how foolish could they have been.
quite a few of them have had their best days in politics already. Some will be taken back and the losers can lick their wounds as they slide towards their (not unsubstantial) pensions. I am looking forward to reading any articles that emerge about who actually were the plotters. I suspect Richard Bruton was not at the centre of it.

Regards, Rugbyman

Sponge Bob

According to the Tribune today ( not yet online) Enda is doing exactly what Sponge Bob told him to do in this post last week .....namely sacking a lot of the old frontbench simply for being useless gob****es rather than for being fractious.

Coveney has shadowed communications and energy for 8 years now and has only proven how thich he is. I only found out that Olivia Mitchell was shadowing transport last week.....a completely invisible presence she is.

As for Billy Timmins and Denis Naughten, I neither know not care what their function was on the old front bench .....and that we are no worse off without them

Discodog

rugbyman wrote: »

They made it known to him that the majority of the front bench had no confidence. There is no onus on a leader to roll over at this stage. He put it up to them, they did not convince the parliamentary party that they were right.

I think most people in FG would agree that there is a downside to the EK popularity thing. All votes have to be earned.

The point is that a good leader doesn't "put it up to them". He listens to them & if he can't listen to his own party then what chance is there of him listening to us. Enda is so sure that he is right & that half of his party plus the electorate are wrong. This isn't about a person gaining a victory it is about putting this country back together again.

Enda's incompetence or those around him showed up with the "New Improved Enda". This is exactly the same person but now he shouts more !. This attempted coup was the climax of many months of doubt about Enda. Yes some people may vote for him because he showed that he was tough but others will be put off by the way that he refuses to listen.

FG cannot accept that we are sick of politicians full stop. We have had enough of arrogant bully boys & being Mr Squeaky Clean isn't enough. This country needs an intelligent, understanding & credible government that represents all of the people & that will never be Enda.

Sponge Bob

http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2010/jun/20/kenny-to-axe-seven/

While some key dissidents will be retained for the sake of party unity and to ensure a strong team, Kenny is anxious to re-energise a front bench that he believes has been "lethargic". He will also send out a signal that he will not tolerate any further undermining of his position.


Brian Hayes, Michael Creed, Denis Naughten, Olivia Mitchell and Billy Timmins are widely expected to lose out. One of the two Laois-Offaly dissenters Olwyn Enright or Charlie Flanagan is also facing the chop, with Flanagan tipped as more likely to survive.

Freiheit

A victory for the proverbial 'Hillbillies':(

Sponge Bob

Freiheit wrote: »

A victory for the proverbial 'Hillbillies':(

No , a defeat for 'rule by media' in fact.

unit 1

I really wonder what all the fuss is about. There were issues with Enda's stewardship, he put it to his party, and they voted to back him.
What part of this do the media not understand, he won fair (unlike FF) and square, unless of course it does not agree with their, no doubt "democratic" agenda of replacing Enda with their darling Dick. Ahem "up Mayo".

ninty9er

Fuhrer wrote: »

Or it shows that he had the majority backing of the party and Bruton was wrong to challenge him...

He had the backing of the majority of the parliamentary party. Completely different to the backing of the party. For example, Mary Hanafin would be Taoiseach and Brian Cowen would be Tánaiste if the grassroots chose in 2008 who Fianna Fáil was to have as it's leader. Furthermore, It's clear that the vast majority if not all of the 32 votes against the motion were TDs, these are the people who are actually elected by the public, the Seanad and MEPs saved him. I mean, come on...Seán Kelly, another one of Fine Gael's celebrity candidates. Don't count on Fianna Fáil losing all three bye-elections after this.

He had an earpiece in delivering a victory speech. If you need an earpiece to do that, what the **** are you going to do when you get asked about something like the death of children in state care, put 200 social workers in a room with a TV camera?

IrishTonyO

ninty9er wrote: »

He had the backing of the majority of the parliamentary party. Completely different to the backing of the party. For example, Mary Hanafin would be Taoiseach and Brian Cowen would be Tánaiste if the grassroots chose in 2008 who Fianna Fáil was to have as it's leader. Furthermore, It's clear that the vast majority if not all of the 32 votes against the motion were TDs, these are the people who are actually elected by the public, the Seanad and MEPs saved him. I mean, come on...Seán Kelly, another one of Fine Gael's celebrity candidates. Don't count on Fianna Fáil losing all three bye-elections after this.

He had an earpiece in delivering a victory speech. If you need an earpiece to do that, what the **** are you going to do when you get asked about something like the death of children in state care, put 200 social workers in a room with a TV camera?

And you know it was 32 votes how?

ninty9er

There's an interview with him just done on The Week in Politics. I feel like puking.

ninty9er

IrishTonyO wrote: »

And you know it was 32 votes how?

I don't, maybe it was 34, nobody knows, but that's the figure in the public arena.

jank

ninty9er wrote: »

He had an earpiece in delivering a victory speech. If you need an earpiece to do that, what the **** are you going to do when you get asked about something like the death of children in state care, put 200 social workers in a room with a TV camera?

Eh I presume that earpeice was given to him by RTE or TV3...
Nice way of deflecting attention...

Anyway my view of this was just get it over and done with. Put Bruton in power and lets go. Unfortunately those in the media and in FG have yet again under estimated Enda. How many times has he been written off? Yet he is still there and a shoe in to be the next leader of the country.

IrishTonyO

ninty9er wrote: »

He had an earpiece in delivering a victory speech. If you need an earpiece to do that, what the **** are you going to do when you get asked about something like the death of children in state care, put 200 social workers in a room with a TV camera?

The earpiece was from RTE news and if you watched and listen you would have heard Brian Dobson asking had he got the earpiece in.

Freiheit

No the media reflected my and many other people's views. Opinions polls show for a long time that people don't want Enda Kenny as Taoiseach and the Gombeens within Fine Gael didn't listen to us.

He is on course to make history as the first ever Fine Gael Tanaiste.

Avns1s

Freiheit wrote: »

No the media reflected my and many other people's views. Opinions polls show for a long time that people don't want Enda Kenny as Taoiseach and the Gombeens within Fine Gael didn't listen to us.

Would this be a view perchance that you formed because of the media??

A bit like a college course, the lecturer gives you material through the year and you give it back at exam time.

Freiheit wrote: »

He is on course to make history as the first ever Fine Gael Tanaiste.

There is no prospect whatever of Kenny being Tanaiste. There is a chance that he wont be Taoiseach but none that he will be Tanaiste. Labour simply do not have the party infrastructure, the candidates or the policies to surpass FG in the next election, nor will they have it in two years time, if the current govt lasts that long. They could of course, have enough seats to form a coalition with FF and possibly others and that kind of a return to power for FF would not surprise me one bit.


As a broader comment, if people feel that upset at whatever is going on in FG, then they should join the party and change the opinions of the Parliamentary party people that spoke democratically in favour of Enda.

The reality is that we are in a democracy and so is FG. I am not a member of FG or any other party for that matter, but I am sure there are written procedures for dealing with issues like leadership challenges and I further assume that these agreed procedures were followed, in the case of FG last week. If they were, there is no come back. If FG pay the price for this in the polls, thats their problem.

What struck me most about the whole affair was that while before the events in FG, I like some others would have felt there was merit in having a younger leader, someone 40ish or below, but I can now see that youth is no substitute for experience. A younger leader would have caved in last week ..... and more importantly, would have caved in if faced with a national crisis and they were Taoiseach.

Freiheit

Enda provided the material, I formed my own opinions. His communication skills are shocking. I want more from a leader of my country.

Shocking too are the 'rebel' Fine Gael td's today rowing back on their position in the hope of future ministerial positions, disappointing but not surprising.

Avns1s

Freiheit wrote: »

Enda provided the material, I formed my own opinions. His communication skills are shocking. I want more from a leader of my country.

Shocking too are the 'rebel' Fine Gael td's today rowing back on their position in the hope of future ministerial positions, disappointing but not surprising.

He couldn't possibly have provided material to let you know what he would be like as leader of the country as he has never held that position. Leader of a political party is quite another matter.

Also, communication skills are important but are only a small part of what it takes to be a good leader. Bertie had those skills in abundance.... would we want him or the likes of him back? I didnt think so!!!

What more do you want therefore from a leader? What should s/he be?? Who would make a viable alternative? Don't hesitate to go across all parties to give an example of who fits the bill.

Freiheit

I could excuse poor communication skills,being inarticulate if he actually showed substance in any language,even communicated through osmosis, communicate somehow, even through sign language but he hasn't.

What does he stand for? I don't know and even worse I get the impression that everything he does say is rehersed, as though he's afraid to be himself ,everything is planned and he is 'wooden'.......

Not someone I want leading my country.

I wouldn't want Bertie Back, nor Eamon Gilmore.

The only politcan off hand that I can say I admire is senator Ivana Bacik.