Hunting knives

Tackleberrywho

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Work in meat factory

I git a nice collection of victornox and dick knives, but a good steal makes them stay sharp

Feargal as Luimneach

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I git a nice collection of victornox and dick knives, but a good steal makes them stay sharp

I find Victorinox knives much better than F Dick knives. After a good stoning of the knife (hard stone only) and then steel her, the victorinox will have a much better edge and will hold it much longer than F Dick. I had a victorinox that lasted 4 years (had the blade stoned down to 0.5 cm).

Tackleberrywho

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

I find Victorinox knives much better than F Dick knives. After a good stoning of the knife (hard stone only) and then steel her, the victorinox will have a much better edge and will hold it much longer than F Dick. I had a victorinox that lasted 4 years (had the blade stoned down to 0.5 cm).

I have a lot of mates in a meat factory, say no more

dwighet

All my knives get a go over a leather strop with some tcut on it after the steel.....It gives em a nice polished razor edge.
The strop takes off the microscopic barbs on the edge thus gives the edge a longer life span before it needs to be resharpened.

ssl

Got this for skinning and removing the meat from rabbits quickly. Very good steel in it. After a bit of practice it's must.

http://www.surplusandadventure.com/images/product/main/knife_jack_pyke_skinning.jpg

Gonna see how it fairs out cleaning a deer come season.

yog1

can someone please explain the different typs of steel used and the different methods to sharpen each type of steel/ knife for me?, i have always used knifes on the farm and i know that everytime i buy a new knife i'm let down by the way it keeps its edge (or fails to), i have a very small colection of knifes, but any i like, i dont use on the farm cus of fear of lossing them or just not being practical,
the one i'm using at the min came from an uncle of my mother, it must be a right age but its the best knife i've ever had to keep its edge, only markings on it i can see are "ELINOX switzerland 247",

Tackleberrywho

yog1 wrote: »

can someone please explain the different typs of steel used and the different methods to sharpen each type of steel/ knife for me?, i have always used knifes on the farm and i know that everytime i buy a new knife i'm let down by the way it keeps its edge (or fails to), i have a very small colection of knifes, but any i like, i dont use on the farm cus of fear of lossing them or just not being practical,
the one i'm using at the min came from an uncle of my mother, it must be a right age but its the best knife i've ever had to keep its edge, only markings on it i can see are "ELINOX switzerland 247",

Steel carbon content determines the hardness of it. A hammer is hard steel, but if you heat a piece of steel and quench it in water yuo temper it, or take the temper out of it depending.

For hardness, and strength steel is numbered. Cold steel knives are 440 grade.

I have a wet stone that you oil and then rub blade on. It will sharpen a blunt chisel to shave timber.

I also have a butchers steel for putting a quick edge on my butchers knives.

A hunting knife has a tempered edge to remain sharp.
However once this edge is damaged the it is hard, not impossible to get it back as sharp and to keep an edge.

Most good hardware suppliers/tool suppliers have these oil stones. You could go to a "Saw Doctor either" they may have an old one to give you.

I used to buy cheap knives and just sharpen them up to practice. same skill required to sharpen a hatchet or axe.

I find it very therapeutic to sharpen knives and clean guns. I really should get out more

Feargal as Luimneach

yog1 wrote: »

can someone please explain the different typs of steel used and the different methods to sharpen each type of steel/ knife for me?, i have always used knifes on the farm and i know that everytime i buy a new knife i'm let down by the way it keeps its edge (or fails to), i have a very small colection of knifes, but any i like, i dont use on the farm cus of fear of lossing them or just not being practical,
the one i'm using at the min came from an uncle of my mother, it must be a right age but its the best knife i've ever had to keep its edge, only markings on it i can see are "ELINOX switzerland 247",

There are two things you must do to keep a good edge on a knife. I only use victorinox knives in meat factory, so I don't know anything about knives with "teeth".
1. to get major imperfections out of knife you have to rub blade on stone (preferably lubed with oil). Run the blade five times to left and then five times to right continue as long as possible. Steeling you knife is not enough to keep an edge on knife, only the major imperfections can be removed via stoning. In meat factories there are generally two types of stone: hard and soft. I just use the hard stone.
2. you then steel you knife to get out minor imperfection. Make sure your knife and steel are wet and luke warm. Don't steel dry. Don't steel your knife either at too high a temperature (ie don't put it in boiling water before steeling). Make sure you knife is clean when steeling,no blood or worse fat on it. Your steel also gets imperfection after prolonged use. I like to keep her sanded down (use a fine sand paper)
In meat factories there are automatic stoners but I never use them you don't get that natural feel when your stoning. Maybe I just prefer to use hand stoning. There are also "automactic" steelers, these are inferior to the hand steel.
To be honest it's impossible to explain in words the technique how to stone/steel you knife. you really have to see someone doing it. If you are a farmer when you bring stock to the factory, go to the kill floor and get somebody to show you (the boning hall workers are generally the best). Also everybody generally have different methods to stoning/steeling. You kinda have to evolve the technique which suits you. It takes time. It took me around two years to learn how to steel properly

Feargal as Luimneach

sorry Tackleberrywho didn't see your post

yog1

am i right in thinking that there is a dry stone and a wet stone, am i right in thinking that the wet stone is better if so what is the dry stone intended for, when you talk about steeling a blade, i asume that it is not narmal steel, what exactly is it, and how does it help sharpen the blade, would a strop do the same thing, are these made of leather, sorry for so many questions, when i get my teeth into somthing i just dont know when to stop,:o

Tackleberrywho

yog1 wrote: »

am i right in thinking that there is a dry stone and a wet stone, am i right in thinking that the wet stone is better if so what is the dry stone intended for, when you talk about steeling a blade, i asume that it is not narmal steel, what exactly is it, and how does it help sharpen the blade, would a strop do the same thing, are these made of leather, sorry for so many questions, when i get my teeth into somthing i just dont know when to stop,:o

Wet is always better than dry (like shaving :D:D)

A strop would be the last piece to do.

You start of course and work down to fine. Course to get out dints fine to polish the edge.
Oil on a stone (wetstone) does a great job, then you can use your strop, although some blades will not be very easy to use on one due to the blades shape.

dwighet

A cheap and easy strop for those who are interested..

They cost nothing to make....
Just go to ebay or your local craft shop and purchase a patch of leather 12"x12". then cut it into 2"x12" strips..

I then get a piece of 2"X2"X12" OF timber then glue the strip of leather(rough side up) onto it...

I then clamp the timber onto a bench and add a cutting/buffing compound(tcut works fine) to the leather then proceed to draw the blade backwards on the leather on an angle no greater than 30 degrees..Making sure at the start of each stroke your not digging the blade into the leather. do both sides of the blade obviously...

using this method you will be able to hold a piece of A4 paper in one hand and be able to slice it effortlessly with the knife...If you can cut a sheet of paper(not tearing it) your knife is razor sharp...
You can then proceed to shave your legs with it..If your into that craic:eek:

cbrjohnthou

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Wet is always better than dry (like shaving :D:D)

A strop would be the last piece to do.

You start of course and work down to fine. Course to get out dints fine to polish the edge.
Oil on a stone (wetstone) does a great job, then you can use your strop, although some blades will not be very easy to use on one due to the blades shape.

Sorry to stick my oar in here Tac but putting oil on a stone does not make it a wet stone, a WHET stone used for sharpening blades/chisels is a different stone altogether. A Whet stone is a very fine wheel shaped stone mounted on a motor very similar to a bench grinder, at the bottom of the wheel is a trough of water, this water keeps the stone wet. Oil is a lot thicker than water, which is why water is used to allow the chisel,blade make closer contact to the very fine stone.;)

Tackleberrywho

shank1 wrote: »

Sorry to stick my oar in here Tac but putting oil on a stone does not make it a wet stone, a WHET stone used for sharpening blades/chisels is a different stone altogether. A Whet stone is a very fine wheel shaped stone mounted on a motor very similar to a bench grinder, at the bottom of the wheel is a trough of water, this water keeps the stone wet. Oil is a lot thicker than water, which is why water is used to allow the chisel,blade make closer contact to the very fine stone.;)

Depends on the oil, IPA is less viscous than water
The whet stone I am referring to would be4 a stone layed flat, brownish in colour, some ipa or WD40 if you have no IPA sprayed on and the blade massaged the stone

I wish I had never mentioned chisels now

Deise Musashi

There are oil stones and water stones.

Oil must not be used on water stones

Oil is optional on oil stones, unless it's had oil on it already.

There are studies that using oil isn't as good as using the stone dry. Water stones have to have water on them.

Ceramic and diamond plates don't need oil or water.

Steeling more than twice per side fatigues your edge and encourages chipping out of the edge.

A coarse steel is a file, save it for your axe.

A diamond steel is a fancy coarse steel.

A Ceramic steel may be good, I like leather on timber with a compound like autosol or t-cut as a final honing step.

Honing, whetting, sharpening et al.

You are making two edges meet cleanly at an edge, on your coarsest medium used this should be achieved. Further steps are refining the edge, making the ridges in the steel smaller. Once the edges meet you are done sharpening and on to refining. A mirror polished edge is the one you started out with refined to the maximum.

Two 45 degree planes intersecting can be sharp, but you cut yourself on a corner!

Thin edges are sharp too, paper cut!

Soft steels roll, hard steels chip. A roll is just a chip that hasn't come out yet.

Cheap but good knives you use, are better than pricey knives you can't bear to use.

Pricey knives with fancy steel do the same thing as decent cheaper knives, just less sharpening in between.

Sharpening is a manual skill, muscle memory can be learned. Buy cheap knives and a stone and try things out. Use a consistent medium for testing (not your arm hair, I look like I have rabies). Printer paper is good, consistent texture and easy to source. Gives a good benchmark to trial and error from.

Any bother feel free to PM me with questions, tips or winning Lotto numbers!

cbrjohnthou

Deise Musashi wrote: »

There are oil stones and water stones.

Oil must not be used on water stones

Oil is optional on oil stones, unless it's had oil on it already.

There are studies that using oil isn't as good as using the stone dry. Water stones have to have water on them.

Ceramic and diamond plates don't need oil or water.

Steeling more than twice per side fatigues your edge and encourages chipping out of the edge.

A coarse steel is a file, save it for your axe.

A diamond steel is a fancy coarse steel.

A Ceramic steel may be good, I like leather on timber with a compound like autosol or t-cut as a final honing step.

Honing, whetting, sharpening et al.

You are making two edges meet cleanly at an edge, on your coarsest medium used this should be achieved. Further steps are refining the edge, making the ridges in the steel smaller. Once the edges meet you are done sharpening and on to refining. A mirror polished edge is the one you started out with refined to the maximum.

Two 45 degree planes intersecting can be sharp, but you cut yourself on a corner!

Thin edges are sharp too, paper cut!

Soft steels roll, hard steels chip. A roll is just a chip that hasn't come out yet.

Cheap but good knives you use, are better than pricey knives you can't bear to use.

Pricey knives with fancy steel do the same thing as decent cheaper knives, just less sharpening in between.

Sharpening is a manual skill, muscle memory can be learned. Buy cheap knives and a stone and try things out. Use a consistent medium for testing (not your arm hair, I look like I have rabies). Printer paper is good, consistent texture and easy to source. Gives a good benchmark to trial and error from.

Any bother feel free to PM me with questions, tips or winning Lotto numbers!

Well thats told us:D Good man the Deise

Tackleberrywho

Deise Musashi wrote: »

There are oil stones and water stones.

Oil must not be used on water stones

Oil is optional on oil stones, unless it's had oil on it already.

There are studies that using oil isn't as good as using the stone dry. Water stones have to have water on them.

Ceramic and diamond plates don't need oil or water.

Steeling more than twice per side fatigues your edge and encourages chipping out of the edge.

A coarse steel is a file, save it for your axe.

A diamond steel is a fancy coarse steel.

A Ceramic steel may be good, I like leather on timber with a compound like autosol or t-cut as a final honing step.

Honing, whetting, sharpening et al.

You are making two edges meet cleanly at an edge, on your coarsest medium used this should be achieved. Further steps are refining the edge, making the ridges in the steel smaller. Once the edges meet you are done sharpening and on to refining. A mirror polished edge is the one you started out with refined to the maximum.

Two 45 degree planes intersecting can be sharp, but you cut yourself on a corner!

Thin edges are sharp too, paper cut!

Soft steels roll, hard steels chip. A roll is just a chip that hasn't come out yet.

Cheap but good knives you use, are better than pricey knives you can't bear to use.

Pricey knives with fancy steel do the same thing as decent cheaper knives, just less sharpening in between.

Sharpening is a manual skill, muscle memory can be learned. Buy cheap knives and a stone and try things out. Use a consistent medium for testing (not your arm hair, I look like I have rabies). Printer paper is good, consistent texture and easy to source. Gives a good benchmark to trial and error from.

Any bother feel free to PM me with questions, tips or winning Lotto numbers!

Bravo
Well said

I was watching a dude last night make a sushi knife in japan and i thought of you.
They only use one edge not two though.
I had a relative a butcher that did the same and this was 50 years before we had D'internet or Discovery.

Very well written piece Sir!

Sparks

Deise Musashi wrote: »

Steeling more than twice per side fatigues your edge and encourages chipping out of the edge.

If it does, you need to change your steel or get a better knife. The steel should never be removing metal from the knife's edge, ever. It's meant to bring the very tip of the edge back into true. If you looked at it under a big enough microscope, you'd see the very tip of the edge of the knife literally curls over to one side or the other with use; the steel just brings that back upright - it doesn't remove material. Which is why eventually, no matter how diligent you are with the steel, you have to regrind the edge with a stone to remove material and rebuild the cutting edge.

Pricey knives with fancy steel do the same thing as decent cheaper knives, just less sharpening in between.

And with less chance of the blade breaking off while you're using it, which I've had happen with a chef's knife. Since your hands are often right up on top of it exerting force when it breaks and since you'll have kept it razor-sharp, you have to be very lucky to avoid injury when that happens. So unless it's for light applications (vegetables and the like, never to go near bone or anything too tough), I would stay a long way away from cheap knives, not unless I knew enough about the brand to know it was a decent one (telling what's cheap and nasty from what's cheap and cheerful is not a simple task).

Deise Musashi

Originally Posted by Deise Musashi
Steeling more than twice per side fatigues your edge and encourages chipping out of the edge.
If it does, you need to change your steel or get a better knife. The steel should never be removing metal from the knife's edge, ever. It's meant to bring the very tip of the edge back into true.

All steels and indeed all abrasives no matter how fine remove steel from your edge to a greater or lesser degree. If I do steel I use a 12 inch smooth ceramic steel, but I prefer to use a leather strop between sharpenings.

The steeling thing was tested by John D. Verhoeven, Emeritus Professor,
Department of Materials Science and Engineering. His paper is a good read, if a little dry.

The effect of decreasing the number of back-and-forth passes from 15 to 2 is shown by comparing Figs. 15 and 16. Using 15 b&f passes was clearly too severe. In all of the steeled samples the action of the steeling process produced a series of linear scratches running parallel to the edge. With 15 b&f passes these scratch indentations extend back from the edge further than with 5 or 2 b&f passes. Also, with 15 b&f passes it was very common to observe breaking off of ledges of material along the edge as is shown most clearly on the Up face view at the center of Fig. 15. Study on the Edge view at the left of Fig. 15 reveals a region along the edge at the top right where one of these

ledges of material has broken out of the edge. Reducing the number of b&f passes to 2 dramatically reduced both the density of such ledge break-out regions along the edge as well as the size of the ledge regions. In both of the face views presented in Fig. 16 there is no ledge breakout, and the edge straightness is very good, however, no better than in the original control blade, compare to Fig. 12. The Edge view of Fig. 16 shows a region at the lower right where breakout has occurred. In regions where no breakout occurs, such as the upper left of Fig. 16, the edge width runs around 1.5 microns, which is at the high end of that observed on the control blades prior to steeling. The blades examined after 5 b&f passes presented results intermediate to those of the 15 and 2 b&f passes, but closer to those of the 2 b&f passes. In summary, the effect of the number of passes was fairly clear, the lowest number of passes studied, 2 b&f passes, produced the best edges

I bolded the relevant part.

Pricey knives with fancy steel do the same thing as decent cheaper knives, just less sharpening in between. And with less chance of the blade breaking off while you're using it, which I've had happen with a chef's knife.

I have found that my pricier knives tend to be more brittle and possibly more likely to break if abused. That said, I've only ever broken knives using them for jobs I knew they weren't fit for. I've never had a knife fail on me just cutting things. I think I remember a picture of a Sabatier that snapped at the handle, was that your one?

I use a saw to cut bones, or a kitchen shears to spatchcock a chicken. I find vegetables to be some of the toughest cutting in the kitchen. Turnip, Butternut Squash etc. are much harder to cut than flesh. I would generally use a Watanabe Nakiri for these although today I used a Misono MX10 Gyuto to split some squash.

If something needs cutting and it's likely to be that rough on my kitchen knives I'll just get my Busse Bushwacker Mistress at it

Tackleberrywho

Deise Musashi wrote: »

All steels and indeed all abrasives no matter how fine remove steel from your edge to a greater or lesser degree. If I do steel I use a 12 inch smooth ceramic steel, but I prefer to use a leather strop between sharpenings.

The steeling thing was tested by John D. Verhoeven, Emeritus Professor,
Department of Materials Science and Engineering. His paper is a good read, if a little dry.

I bolded the relevant part.


I have found that my pricier knives tend to be more brittle and possibly more likely to break if abused. That said, I've only ever broken knives using them for jobs I knew they weren't fit for. I've never had a knife fail on me just cutting things. I think I remember a picture of a Sabatier that snapped at the handle, was that your one?

I use a saw to cut bones, or a kitchen shears to spatchcock a chicken. I find vegetables to be some of the toughest cutting in the kitchen. Turnip, Butternut Squash etc. are much harder to cut than flesh. I would generally use a Watanabe Nakiri for these although today I used a Misono MX10 Gyuto to split some squash.

If something needs cutting and it's likely to be that rough on my kitchen knives I'll just get my Busse Bushwacker Mistress at it

I have seen pics like that before in work. You must be using good analythitical equipment. Perhaps KLA Tencor or Leica

I do appreciate that steel and sdord making is a profession in it self.

Its an amazing process making a knive that can cut and hold an edge.
I have a video at home from cold steel but I often wonder about promo videos.

Marketing gimic, chopping timber with knives etc.
Not saying it can't be done.

Getting back to HUNTING KNIVES

Has anyone got any more pics of what they use?
We seem to be going a shade off topic.;)

Sparks

Deise Musashi wrote: »

I bolded the relevant part.

Now that is interesting, it runs counter to everything I've been told about sharpening knives.

I think I remember a picture of a Sabatier that snapped at the handle, was that your one?

No, it was a Global that was in apparently good condition before the break. Dropped onto wood from a height of about four feet and snapped clean an inch in front of the handle. I'd have cut to the bone of at least one finger if I'd been using it when the blade gave way. Haven't bought a Global since, and I've disliked cheap or gimmicky knives ever since. I've stuck to Sabatier and Wustorf since, with the exception of bread knives and a present of a Tojiro from the folks.

I use a saw to cut bones, or a kitchen shears to spatchcock a chicken.

Ditto. Right tool for the right job and all that.

I find vegetables to be some of the toughest cutting in the kitchen.

Depends on the vegetable - mirepoix isn't the same as the squash family (for which I'd normally use a serrated knife and very little down pressure).

Thomasofmel

Hibrion wrote: »

How did you manage that? I contacted them recently and they said I couldn't order anything???

There seems to be a restriction in Ebay not send knifes to Ireland, but some in UK do send anyway yuo could try the following shop as well - they have some nice ones :rolleyes: and definitely send to Ireland.

http://www.armynnavy.com/catalog/catalog/default.php/cPath/291

jwshooter

buy a buck 110 or a kershaw wildcat ridge ,as a hunting knife .

use victorinox in the larder you will not go wrong .

Hibrion

Thomasofmel wrote: »

There seems to be a restriction in Ebay not send knifes to Ireland, but some in UK do send anyway yuo could try the following shop as well - they have some nice ones :rolleyes: and definitely send to Ireland.

http://www.armynnavy.com/catalog/catalog/default.php/cPath/291

Thanks. I ordered a few knives from Hennie Haynes in the UK last week. Got a Mora Clipper, a buck 110 and a falkniven DC4 whetstone. If anyone is looking for a good, cheap method of sharpening your knives pick up one of these. They are also for dry use only so you don't need to mess about with oil or water.

bunny shooter

Got my new Buck 110 the other day. A b'day pressie from she who must be obeyed.

Used it last night to gut a few bunnies I had shot.

I AM IMPRESSED !

Tackleberrywho

We have seen a few nice knives on this thread.

Anymore out there?
And not weblinks, but actual knives so we can see what they look like after being used for a time.

Anyone make a knife like some of the ones posted on this thread?

Deise Musashi

Opinel garden knife, rough riders elephants toenail, mini toothpick and a rough rider Trapper.



cheapy Ross Lewis branded kitchen knife and a custom by Magnus Hjelmgren.



some leather strops with green, white and diamond compounds on them. 3 micron to .25 micron avg. grits.







Some larger camping knives



Spyderco Tenacious, CRKT and an Emerson Commander



A Serratta cast steel knife from New Zealand maker Zackerty, very bitey edge due to the way it's made.



Laguiole from France, horn handles.



CRKT Snap Lock, just a funny opening mechanism that's fun to play with.




Have a few other bits, must get pictures of my kitchen knives but that'd be another thread

Thanks for looking and any questions just drop me a PM.

Tackleberrywho

Deise Musashi wrote: »

Opinel garden knife, rough riders elephants toenail, mini toothpick and a rough rider Trapper.



cheapy Ross Lewis branded kitchen knife and a custom by Magnus Hjelmgren.



some leather strops with green, white and diamond compounds on them. 3 micron to .25 micron avg. grits.







Some larger camping knives



Spyderco Tenacious, CRKT and an Emerson Commander



A Serratta cast steel knife from New Zealand maker Zackerty, very bitey edge due to the way it's made.



Laguiole from France, horn handles.



CRKT Snap Lock, just a funny opening mechanism that's fun to play with.




Have a few other bits, must get pictures of my kitchen knives but that'd be another thread

Thanks for looking and any questions just drop me a PM.

Now that's more like it.

Feckin bread is making me hungry, 40 mins before lunch break.

I have to say that is a fine collection.;)

I love a good quality finish to a blade.

I would not be able to pick my favourite one as I like most of them.:D

Do I see Cold Steel in your collection?

Deise Musashi

Two of the camp knives are Cold Steel yep. Have some more like a Kobun, but you asked for hunting knives.

I must take pictures of my other knives, some factory and some semi-custom.

I have a bunch of them and as they get used I put them on my Edge Pro and polish up the edges. I'll try to get clear pic.s of the edge I put on a Buck Nighthawk and a Ka-Bar. Makes them actually usable as knives after a lot of grinding!

Must head to bed, shift work is fun! I'll try to get some more up tomorrow lad.

Thomasofmel

Attached a photo (hope it is attached) of knives I have had for ages. The two upper ones are typical puukko type ones from Finland - all around bigger knives. The small one is a cheapish Jake Pyke, which is very handy in the field.