Saorview Content Speculation

Mayo Exile

News item on RTE News website today re DTT rollout.
Link: http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0729/dtt.html

Details of digital TV plans announced

Thursday, 29 July 2010 16:15

Communications Minister Eamon Ryan has announced plans for the roll-out of digital television here.

RTÉ will build the replacement service at a cost of €70 million. No commercial provider will be involved in phase 1.

The digital service will reach 98% of the population, while RTE has plans to develop a satellite service for the remaining 2%.

Minister Ryan said that by switching to digital television, space will be freed up on the spectrum, which will now be used for broadband services.

He said he would not rule out commercial providers getting involved at a later stage. He also said he wants to look at RTÉ's future ownership of the transmission network

Capt'n Midnight

Satellite solution for the 2% ?

Is this simply a fancy way of saying "get SKY" ?

or will there be some assistance given by RTE to License holers in fringe areas as part of a public service obligation



Not sure I like that talk about RTE's ownership of the network, if they sell it off then the buyers will need to make a profit for their shareholders, what would be the benefit to us ?

Mr McBoatface

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Satellite solution for the 2% ?

Is this simply a fancy way of saying "get SKY" ?

No it means SaorSat - http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055968485

eh2010

I have a few questions regarding this.

First what is OTV ? Ive seen it mentioned as a channell,

Second, what will happen to the irish channels on sky? will they stay as they are, will the new ones be added or will they come off sky if there's RTE FTA.

Third, when RTE is available FTA on saorsat , could it be picked up on the sky other channells menu ,

And fourth yeah I know RTE is going digital and will be free view ,what about TV3 and 3e ? . They're not RTE channels so RTE has no obligation to carry them. Will we just have to wait and see what happens because its all speculation right now?

Fr0g

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Not sure I like that talk about RTE's ownership of the network, if they sell it off then the buyers will need to make a profit for their shareholders, what would be the benefit to us ?

We haven't an arse left in our trousers, state assets will be sold off left right and centre to pay for our current "difficulties"

selling-off-state-assets-on-the-cheap-is-just-madness

Mr McBoatface

eh2010 wrote: »

I have a few questions regarding this.

First what is OTV ? Ive seen it mentioned as a channell,

Second, what will happen to the irish channels on sky? will they stay as they are, will the new ones be added or will they come off sky if there's RTE FTA.

Third, when RTE is available FTA on saorsat , could it be picked up on the sky other channells menu ,

And fourth yeah I know RTE is going digital and will be free view ,what about TV3 and 3e ? . They're not RTE channels so RTE has no obligation to carry them. Will we just have to wait and see what happens because its all speculation right now?

1ST = Oireachtas TV, Like BBC Parliament
2ND = They will stay the same.
3RD = Launch Q2 2011 has been mentioned, the satellite has not been launched yet so this may change. It will be on a completely different satellite than that used by SKY so you can't via a SKY box.
4th = TV3 will be included in the channel line up, 3E have been invited onto the lineup but there is no obligation to carry 3E. DDT Launches in October so it's not speculation.

The Cush

eh2010 wrote: »

Second, what will happen to the irish channels on sky? will they stay as they are, will the new ones be added or will they come off sky if there's RTE FTA.

Third, when RTE is available FTA on saorsat , could it be picked up on the sky other channells menu ,

And fourth yeah I know RTE is going digital and will be free view ,what about TV3 and 3e ? . They're not RTE channels so RTE has no obligation to carry them. Will we just have to wait and see what happens because its all speculation right now?

I think we can assume there will be no change to the Irish channels on Sky so long as Sky continue to pay the associated costs, but any additional channels such as RTÉ News Now may not be available.

There has been no official announcement regarding which satellite will carry the Saorsat service it is being assumed it will be KA-Sat at 9 deg. East which will transmit at a higher frequency (Ka Band) than Astra (Sky) at 28 deg. East (Ku Band) so a different LNB and receiver will be required. Saorsat is an infill service for areas not within range of a DTT transmitter (approx 2% of the population) at ASO and so not in competition with Sky.

RTÉ is required to carry TV3 on its multiplex if TV3 request it as per the Broadcasting Act but not 3e. The Broadcasting Act allows RTÉ to carry other non-PSB commercial channels on its multiplex if it wishes and so RTÉ have suggested to TV3 that it should apply to the Minister to allow its sister channel, 3e to be carried. The problem for TV3 and 3e are the costs associated with dual-illumination during the transition period (simulcast phase), they will have to pay RTÉNL for analogue, DTT and Saorsat distribution and transmission. The simulcast phase cost issue for TV3 and TG4 was raised by Bob Collins (BAI) towards the end of the recent Joint Committee on Communications discussion (see quote below). If TV3 doesn't sign a transmission and distribution agreement with RTÉNL it won't be there at launch.

Could we see an agreement reached whereby TV3, TG4 and 3e where carried free of charge on DTT until ASO (approx 2 years) with the few million euro costs borne by the Dept which could encourage a quicker take up of DTT as the transmitters come on line, the cost could be recovered from the Digital Dividend process. Initially Saorview/Saorsat needs TV3/3e more than TV3/3e needs DTT.

Mr. Bob Collins:
... Two other issues arise that are important and in which the authority will take an interest. One is the cost of transmission, especially in the simulcast phase between October of this year and the end of 2012 when analogue switch-off will take place, for TV3 and TG4 in particular, because they are in a qualitatively different position from the RTE channels given the nature of their relationship between the transmission network and RTE the broadcaster.

... The issue of cost for TV3 and TG4 was mentioned. There is a qualitative difference between these and the two RTE television channels. Simultaneous transmissions which are, to a certain extent, test transmissions will take place until the switchover, encouraging people to become accustomed to DTT while the information campaign is proceeding. The cost, for no real return in terms of access to additional viewers, is a consideration, to which some attention will be given.

Sam Russell

The Cush wrote: »

Could we see an agreement reached whereby TV3, TG4 and 3e where carried free of charge on DTT until ASO (approx 2 years) with the few million euro costs borne by the Dept which could encourage a quicker take up of DTT as the transmitters come on line, the cost could be recovered from the Digital Dividend process. Initially Saorview/Saorsat needs TV3/3e more than TV3/3e needs DTT.

I think it is unlikely that TV3 and TG4 will be carried free on DTT in the dual illumniation phase, but they could both expect a reduction in carriage cost after ASO. If they fail to pay the increase in dual illumination, they may not get the reduction after ASO. Each analogue channel cost about €4m/year and each mux costs about the same, plus capital costs, say €8m/year. For 8 channels, that is about €1m/year. So TV3 and 3E would cost about the same as TV3 now. TV3 does pay less because it refuses to have all available sites worked. They can't do that with DTT, as the same signal goes everywhere. They will also have to pay for Saorsat, but that will be a lot less, say $250k/year.

If TV3 fails to launch with DTT, they could be in breach of their licence.

warlikedave

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think it is unlikely that TV3 and TG4 will be carried free on DTT in the dual illumniation phase, but they could both expect a reduction in carriage cost after ASO. If they fail to pay the increase in dual illumination, they may not get the reduction after ASO. Each analogue channel cost about €4m/year and each mux costs about the same, plus capital costs, say €8m/year. For 8 channels, that is about €1m/year. So TV3 and 3E would cost about the same as TV3 now. TV3 does pay less because it refuses to have all available sites worked. They can't do that with DTT, as the same signal goes everywhere. They will also have to pay for Saorsat, but that will be a lot less, say $250k/year.

If TV3 fails to launch with DTT, they could be in breach of their licence.

Lets hope TV3 and 3e do come onboard - i like the comedy and sifi that 3e shows - not too bothered about TV3 eith the exceptoon of the sports they show on occasion coupled with europa league live on 3e

Ive no access to UK channels at the moment or for the next while for that matter

gtg60

In the news report tonight they mentioned 8 channels being launched so I'm wondering 2 things, are the full 8 coming on stream from October 31st and if so, what are the extra 3 channels?

Mr McBoatface

gtg60 wrote: »

In the news report tonight they mentioned 8 channels being launched so I'm wondering 2 things, are the full 8 coming on stream from October 31st and if so, what are the extra 3 channels?

The 8 should be on from October 31st. Watty posted details on the channels line-up including a RTE word document on the content - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66989037&postcount=180.

HD content should increase when the 2nd mux is available after ASO, I'd imagine there will be a couple of extra channels too.

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

Each analogue channel cost about €4m/year and each mux costs about the same, plus capital costs, say €8m/year. For 8 channels, that is about €1m/year.

If TV3 fails to launch with DTT, they could be in breach of their licence.

For 2010 the RTÉNL analogue tarriff (transmission and distribution) for TV3 is approx €1.8 million and TG4 €3.1 million.

The proposed tarriff for the PSB Mux (44 sites + 3 Com Muxes) was €4.5 million. That tarriff figure probably no longer applies now that the commercial muxes have been postponed so that figure may go up.

There may not be anything in TV3's licence that would require them to be available in both analogue and digital terrestrial simultaneously only that they be available via terrestrial transmission. In any case things should get clearer over the next three months but then again we said this during the commercial process.

The Cush

gtg60 wrote: »

In the news report tonight they mentioned 8 channels being launched so I'm wondering 2 things, are the full 8 coming on stream from October 31st and if so, what are the extra 3 channels?

Could be RTÉ1, RTÉ2, TV3 (??), TG4, RTÉ News Now plus RTÉ One +1, RTÉ Children’s, Euronews or RTÉ One +1/RTÉ Children’s / Euronews, 3e, Digital Text.

We won't know until they announce the line-up officially, will TV3 be there at launch?

RTÉ Nine News: Sharon Toibin reports that the switchover from analogue to digital television will start from this Autumn

Sam Russell

The Cush wrote: »

RTÉ Nine News: Sharon Toibin reports that the switchover from analogue to digital television will start from this Autumn

If that is the start of RTE's media blitz to publicise the DTT launch it lacks basic information and could have mentioned that some televisions can receive the current transmission tests. Also that digital is a signal that will give perfect reception or none atall. Poor.

scath

http://www.independent.ie/business/media/euro70m-rte-digital-tv-switch-gets-signal-to-go-nationwide-2278195.html

Catches up, but gives hope that Irish Film Channel may get go ahead. My view is that it can timeshare. Obviously he has to make the decision (Minister Ryan) about the 2 PSB's now funding wise. Also (public operational service) launch date has to be determined. Will it be November 2010 or Q3 2011 co-inciding with Saorsat launch?

The Cush

scath wrote: »

Also (public operational service) launch date has to be determined. Will it be November 2010 or Q3 2011 co-inciding with Saorsat launch?

Conor Hayes of RTÉ said at the Joint Committee debate recently that they would recommend the second quarter of 2011 which would coincide with the availability of Saorsat and 97.2% population coverage from 49 sites.

Mr. Conor Hayes: October 2010 is the switch-on from a technical basis. The date for the public national launch must be decided by the Minister but we recommend the second quarter of next year.

10000maniacs

Does anybody believe a thing that comes out of bicycle seller Ryans mouth, especially after he announced that BBC services would be freely available on Irish DTT, and two days later got his techies to change the wording on his website to read BBC will be available -On a paid for basis.

_Kaiser_

I'm not sure that going onto a different satellite than 28E makes much sense if they intend to reach those who can't get it terrestrially.

Yes I've read the thread about focussed transmission and such, but your average joe isn't going to spend maybe €3/400 on a(nother) new dish, box and cabling. They'll just get the basic RTE's from Sky as they do now.

Mr McBoatface

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I'm not sure that going onto a different satellite than 28E makes much sense if they intend to reach those who can't get it terrestrially.

Yes I've read the thread about focussed transmission and such, but your average joe isn't going to spend maybe €3/400 on a(nother) new dish, box and cabling. They'll just get the basic RTE's from Sky as they do now.

The 2% of the county that will require a new dish will more than likely be subsidised , no way they will be paying a 3/400 Euro which is a wild over estimate of the cost.

28E can't be used , there is no room on it for the extra RTE content + a FTV system would have to be used which would be hugely expensive to put in place.

tlaavtech

jobyrne30 wrote: »

The 2% of the county that will require a new dish will more than likely be subsidised .

I cannot believe that this wil be subsidised - not in the current economic climate.

I think it will be a case of "Here is your 2 year notice to analogue switch off - Start saving"

The Cush

tlaavtech wrote: »

I cannot believe that this wil be subsidised - not in the current economic climate.

And don't forget there will also be a help scheme to assist certain groups during the switchover process which is part of the Broadcasting Act.

eh2010

Will the FTA RTE channels on saorsat be available in NI and Britain?

John mac

eh2010 wrote: »

Will the FTA RTE channels on saorsat be available in NI and Britain?

maybe NI http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055968485

Capt'n Midnight

tlaavtech wrote: »

I cannot believe that this wil be subsidised - not in the current economic climate.

License fee is €160 and only 2% would be affected so easily covered

Of course people without a license won't be subsidised.

STB

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I'm not sure that going onto a different satellite than 28E makes much sense if they intend to reach those who can't get it terrestrially.

Yes I've read the thread about focussed transmission and such, but your average joe isn't going to spend maybe €3/400 on a(nother) new dish, box and cabling. They'll just get the basic RTE's from Sky as they do now.

If you have a dish already its for other purposes!

Where did you get the 300 from.

HD Combo boxes start at €150, they do DTT, HD Sat and what other sats.

You will need a DTT box regardless.

Your average joe would love to be told that they can drop their subsciption and get most channels that they actually watch for free. Which most people dont know. Sky wouldnt like you to know this of course. But it will catch on, trust me. Then it will be very easy to justify. What you mean I just buy one of these legal boxes and I get no more bills, what what!!!

Mr McBoatface

Back to the content speculation. Will the proposed channel line as per this document http://www.techtir.ie/sites/default/files/JOCC20100714.doc be available in October when the launch happens ? I've been under the impression that this was the case, am I correct in this assumption ?

Or it a case of assumption + DTT = disappointment :mad:

endakenny

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Yes I've read the thread about focussed transmission and such, but your average joe isn't going to spend maybe €3/400 on a(nother) new dish, box and cabling. They'll just get the basic RTE's from Sky as they do now.

Getting the Saorsat dish will mean not paying a subscription anymore. Therefore, the average Joe will save money in the long term.

Sam Russell

endakenny wrote: »

Getting the Saorsat dish will mean not paying a subscription anymore. Therefore, the average Joe will save money in the long term.

The average Joe will find out that :-

Freesat plus Saorsat = FreeTV.

Sky dish = Freesat Dish

Saorsat Dish or Saorview Aerial = Irish TV for free

Digital TV = Great Picture.

All this is going to make Average Joe very happy as Average Joe will not pay Sky a red cent ever again.

And they all lived happily ever after.

The End.

FREETV

Sam Russell wrote: »

The average Joe will find out that :-

Freesat plus Saorsat = FreeTV.

Sky dish = Freesat Dish

Saorsat Dish or Saorview Aerial = Irish TV for free

Digital TV = Great Picture.

All this is going to make Average Joe very happy as Average Joe will not pay Sky a red cent ever again.

And they all lived happily ever after.

The End.

Well put Sam Russell, it is about time that people stopped paying an English company for poor quality tv at extortionate prices.

warlikedave

Sam Russell wrote: »

The average Joe will find out that :-

Freesat plus Saorsat = FreeTV.

Sky dish = Freesat Dish

Saorsat Dish or Saorview Aerial = Irish TV for free

Digital TV = Great Picture.

All this is going to make Average Joe very happy as Average Joe will not pay Sky a red cent ever again.

And they all lived happily ever after.

The End.

Not the end - certain sports are limited on FreeTV so it might not cause the big exodus that we all hope for - I can see this as being good however if it does cause loads of people to leave sky...it will surely force them to drop the price of sports packages and the over priced tv packages.

Interesting times ahead...