Saorview Content Speculation

Capt'n Midnight

Do we know what frequencies each of the transmitters will use, so that we can buy the right UHF group for the aerial ?


http://www.techtir.ie/node/1003573

The RTEnl site tells me that DTT from 3Rock and Kippure uses four channels 54, 58, 61 and 64. They call them P1 B1 B2 and B3. P for Public Broadcasting?? B for ???

Now, my receiver tells me that the test channels (RTE1 RTE2 TG4 plus test cards) are all on 738Mhz (i.e. Channel 54)

Is this correct and can I get a Group C/D Green antenna ?

Do we know which frequencies are to be sold off yet ?

Where could I get a good aerial in Dublin ?
http://www.tvtrade.ie/green-group-cd-uhf-aerial.html - I can't tell from the picture what the build quality is like and P&P is nearly as much as the aerial

watty

All the channels are on the 1st Multiplex. Sometime in 2011 the 2nd Multiplex will start
the channels listed for DTT are the Multiplexes. The first two apply for for now.

originally 1 was for PSB and 2, 3 & 4 was for Pay TV. then 5 would be PSB after 2013, 6 for pay TV.

Due to failure of pay TV DTT, PSB is now getting #2 as well as #1
#3 & #4 are not happening.

Frequencies from 796MHz to 864MHz approx almost certain to be sold, possibly much more. If they are convinced pay TV isn't going to happen they will sell off more.

http://www.techtir.ie/tv-radio/Irish-DTT-Sites

http://www.saortv.info/terrestrial-saorview/tuning-saorview/

Souriau

RTE 2 Temp is running now on channel 7 and is in SD
Its the same as RTE2 on channel 2

Elmo

Souriau wrote: »

RTE 2 Temp is running now on channel 7 and is in SD
Its the same as RTE2 on channel 2

It seems just to be warning people that they don't have the right equipment if they are not receiving RTÉ Two on Channel 2.

Elmo

Elmo wrote: »

It seems just to be warning people that they don't have the right equipment if they are not receiving RTÉ Two on Channel 2.

Yes, in the EPG it says something along the lines of it being a temporary service which will cease in early 2011 and those who can't receive RTE Two on channel 2 are using incompatible equipment.

watty

I presume MPEG2 sets can get the EPG?

watty

watty wrote: »

I presume MPEG2 sets can get the EPG?

Not necessarily, if the channel is flagged with 0x16 then presumably the set shouldn't tune it.

STB

watty wrote: »

I presume MPEG2 sets can get the EPG?

Its a low resolution bandwidth stream with 0x16 flag set (rather than 0x19 HD which would stop MPEG4 SD boxes from picking it up in a scan), not to signal MPEG2 sets but rather those with MPEG4 H264 L3 only set top boxes..... MPEG4 L3 IDTVs are not that common.

MPEG2 IDTVS complying with ETSI standards will ignore it in a channel scan.

And its clear as day what the intention is Watty. It is a fairly stong stance to have to adopt, whatever is going on in the background. One can only guess.

watty

I mean if they only get the Radio (which will work on MPEG2 sets unless they switch to AAC+), can they see the EPG of the TV channels?

I'd have to "break" something to have only MPEG2 to test.

( I might have mentioned a few ebay sellers of such set boxes to someone... )

STB

watty wrote: »

I mean if they only get the Radio (which will work on MPEG2 sets unless they switch to AAC+), can they see the EPG of the TV channels?

I'd have to "break" something to have only MPEG2 to test.

( I might have mentioned a few ebay sellers of such set boxes to someone... )

No regardless of what video codec is broadcast in the stream, once the advanced codec service flag is set the station wont load in the scan.

It may load the radio channels. They are not warning mpeg2 TVs if the dummy channel is set with the 0x16 Advanced Codec Standard Definition flag). They are warning people those specifcally with MPEG4 SD boxes about RTE HD not been seen at position 2.

Souriau

watty wrote: »

I presume MPEG2 sets can get the EPG?

No
I have both MPEG2 and MPEG4 sets, the EPG on MPEG2 set is just radio stations only, no video or TV channels

watty

STB wrote: »

No regardless of what video codec is broadcast in the stream, once the advanced codec service flag is set the station wont load in the scan.

It may load the radio channels. They are not warning mpeg2 TVs if the dummy channel is set with the 0x16 Advanced Codec Standard Definition flag). They are warning people those specifcally with MPEG4 SD boxes about RTE HD not been seen at position 2.

Yes I understand that. (About not seening stations with unsuitable flags and the SD MPEG4 boxes)

So the EIT based EPG is per station stream?

Unlike an MHEG5 EPG which would be single stream duplicated on each Multiplex.

The Cush

watty wrote: »

So the EIT based EPG is per station stream?

Unlike an MHEG5 EPG which would be single stream duplicated on each Multiplex.

My understanding, whether right or wrong, is that the EIT epg data is per multiplex with now and next data per channel.

Sam Russell

My Picnic box picks up RTE2 HD but has a blank screen. My Sony Bravia (MPEG2) set scans all the channels, and has no video or sound unless I visit the radio channels first. Then I get sound. I think each manufacturer has their own interpretation of what to do with the flags.

fat-tony

watty wrote: »

Yes I understand that. (About not seening stations with unsuitable flags and the SD MPEG4 boxes)

So the EIT based EPG is per station stream?

Unlike an MHEG5 EPG which would be single stream duplicated on each Multiplex.

I'm not well versed in the structure of MPEG-2 data streams, but Transedit (supplied with DVBviewer Pro ) shows me the various streams and parses the data somewhat. EIT stream data is transmitted with an identifier for each service carried on the multiplex, so there are 17 individual identified sub-streams. For example RTE One has a service ID of 1101 in the SDT and it carries a Service Type of 0x16 (decimal 22 - Advanced Codec) so it is ignored by MPEG-2 sets incapable (or crippled) of handling the associated MPEG-4 video stream. By that logic I would assume the the set's firmware would also ignore the EIT data for that same service ID of 1101, therefore no EPG displayable for RTE1.
The radio stations have service IDs 1226 to 1235, so sets capable of receiving the radio services would scan those in and build a display of all the radio programmes in the multiplex.

Elmo

Old Panasonic DVD Recorder I have picks up the EPGs for all Radio and TV channels but as it is MPEG2 it has no pictures or sound on any of the TV stations.

fat-tony

The data is all there in the streams. I assume it's just down to the software in the device whether it uses it or not. Obviously you're borked by the inability of the device to decompress MPEG-4 video, but it's teasing you as to what's hidden there:)

watty

The Cush wrote: »

My understanding, whether right or wrong, is that the EIT epg data is per multiplex with now and next data per channel.

That would be more logical or else a big waste of bandwidth.

fat-tony

watty - see my post (#826). Now/next data are the first two entries in each identified sub-section(numbered by Service ID) of the EIT data.

Here's an XML dump of the RTE One EIT data for your perusal! I've re-named it to .txt for upload purposes.

Elmo

Any one know if RTÉ is getting a HD playout system for Christmas

Elmo

RTÉ Two Temp doesn't have a great picture, even in comparison to the other SD channels.

fat-tony

It's 480x576 with low bit rate - basically SVCD resolution. See the RTE Two HD thread from post 93 onwards.

Souriau

What is the point in showing a second RTE2 channel in SD?
it will confuse someone at the shop selling the TV showing all the SD channels on that TV and then the consumer will find out later when RTE2 SD is turn off, who is at fault there then?
There should been something else transmitted instead of RTE2 SD on channel 7, this will avoid any hassle later. . .

The Cush

Souriau wrote: »

What is the point in showning a seconc RTE2 channel in SD?
it will confuse someone at the shop selling the TV showing all the SD channels on that TV and then the consumer will find out later when RTE2 SD is turn off, who is at fault there now?
there should been something else transmitted instead of RTE2 SD on channel 7, this will avoid any hassle later. . .

A waste of space until mid April. At that time what will repalce it, RTÉjr/RTÉ Plus or a Saorview promo channel prior to the planned May launch?

Mr McBoatface

Souriau wrote: »

What is the point in showning a seconc RTE2 channel in SD?
it will confuse someone at the shop selling the TV showing all the SD channels on that TV and then the consumer will find out later when RTE2 SD is turn off, who is at fault there now?
there should been something else transmitted instead of RTE2 SD on channel 7, this will avoid any hassle later. . .

I imagine it's a partial amnesty for Christmas and beyond for those who bought incompatibly equipment. The EPG has been updated to include some information/warning see this post - http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69496501&postcount=142 .

Souriau

The Cush wrote: »

A waste of space until mid April. At that time what will repalce it, RTÉjr/RTÉ Plus or a Saorview promo channel prior to the planned May launch?

Then just show a test card until they got something to show but not duplicate another channel.
I see somewhere somone buy a TV that is just SD only and see all the main channels on it. not showing a proper RTE2 HD.
Tha buyer will not be happy next year when RTE2 SD goes offair.
to many people, digital TV is a nighmare if one does not know what to look for, even manufactor can mislead their TV saying it is HD, but it not a true full 1080p HD, but rather a 720p HD or even worse, a 576p HD

fat-tony

I would agree that mr. or mrs. average would have a tough time navigating the crocodile-infested pool that is digital TV in Ireland. The public information campaign that is absolutely needed is a long time in coming. It is positively shameful that the national broadcaster, the network operator and the government quango(e)s that make up our broadcasting infrastructure can't get their collective thumbs out of their arses and produce a clear set of guidelines for the public. In the vacuum that has existed, opportunistic vendors have dumped hardware and duped the public into buying stuff that will either not work at all or will fall short of full performance.

Sam Russell

What is maddening is that it would cost nothing for RTE to use their major programmes to highlight all the issues. A few guests on much watched programmes would at least tell people what to ask the retailer.

We have that Tina Lennard who appears on every programme on RTE and appears to be an expert on every consumer subject under the sun but has not a cheap to say about this. RTE actually employ a lot of experts on the subject who may be able to throw some light on the subject.

They even have a website.

They even have a channel 'RTE News Now' that could be used to show a small info item between reruns of the news that would explain matters DTT.

It could be done for nearly nothing, and it could be done now.

Elmo

Perhaps a scrolling message on RTÉ 2 SD rather than just info in the guide.

Souriau

Dump RTE2 SD now and run something else like a demo program of RTE digital and its SAORview EPG and digital Text, MPEG-5.
RTE2 SD will mislead consumer buyers thinking this set, TV or STB will work when it is on live display in the shop