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your top 10 games ever!!
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26-05-2010 6:49pm#1
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Join Date:Posts: 51584
I did a top 100 ages ago. My list is subject to change but off the top of my head:
1. Panzer Dragoon Saga
2. Super Metroid
3. Suikoden 2
4. Super Mario World
5. System Shock 2
6. Zelda: Link to the PAst
7. Gunstar Heroes
8. Radiant Silvergun
9. Bubble Bobble
10. Resident Evil 4
As for your list, I've plenty of problems with it:
Goldeneye has aged dreadfully. It was a very influential game but it's terrible now.
Resident Evil 1, I prefer the Gamecube remake and while I love the game, it's not top 10 material for me.
Tomb Raider 2 is a terrible games. TR1 is still the only good game in the old franchise and I feel Tomb Raider Anniversary improved on that greatly.
Mario Kart 64 I feel is by far the worst in the series. I'd take Mario Kart DS, Mario Kart Wii and Double Dash over it anyday.
Fifa 95, meh football games and ISS Deluxe and sensi were always way better
Gears of War 2. Decent game but getting no where near my top 100.
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Master of the UniverseJoin Date:Posts: 35093
This is the hardest question in the world and I just can't answer it.
The best I can do is pick some games from each genre that I love. Trying to pick which one would make me jump out of a window in frustration.
Plus this is just out of my head. If I went in and started looking through games it would be even longer
1.RPG -
1.Chrono Trigger (snes) /Panzer Dragoon Saga (Saturn)/ Fallout 2 (PC) /FF VII(PS1)(**** off retr0!)
2.Platformer-
Sonic the Hedgehog (Megadrive)/Super Mario Bros 3 (Nes)/Tomb Raider (PS1)
3. FPS-
Half Life Deathmatch pre STEAM (PC)/DOOM 2(PC)
4. Shooter -
Metal Slug(NeoGeo)/Gunstar Heroes(MD)/Probotector(MD)/Megaman 2(NES)/MERCS (MD)
5.Action platformers-
Castlevania SOTN (PS1)/Super Metroid (Snes)/The Revenge of Shinobi (MD)
6.Space shooters-
MUSHA (MD) /Blazing Star (NeoGeo)/soukyugurentai(Saturn)/Gradius V(PS2)
7.Side scrolling beat em ups-
Streets of rage 2(MD)/Aliens Versus Predator (cps2)/Rushing Beat(Snes)/Super Double Dragon (Snes)/Sengoku 3 (NeoGeo)
8. Adventure RPG -
Zelda: A link to the Past (Snes)
9. Fighting games -
The Last Blade (NeoGeo)/Mark of the Wolves(NeoGeo)
10.Puzzle-
Tetris (GB)/Puzzle Bobble (NeoGeo)
Yeah, I suck..I know I'll whittle it down one of these days! 0 -
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Master of the UniverseJoin Date:Posts: 35093
marcuspheonix wrote: »hmmm, i dont know how you can say goldeneye is terrible now, considering you have Panzer Dragoon Saga as the best game ever! .
Sense - this sentence makes none
Have you played PDS? I only had the pleasure of playing through it recently. Absolutely brilliant. I've been listening to the soundtrack in work daily ever since.0 -
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Sense - this sentence makes none
Have you played PDS? I only had the pleasure of playing through it recently. Absolutely brilliant. I've been listening to the soundtrack in work daily ever since.
yes i played it years ago, dont get me wrong, im not saying its a bad game, but to say goldeneye is terrible is nonsense0 -
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hmmm..it's a toughie
in no particular order
Choplifter (arcade)
Street Fighter 2 (arcade)
Killer Instinct (arcade)
Resident Evil 2 (PS1)
Deus Ex (PC)
Half Life (PC)
Half Life 2 (PC)
F22 Total Air War (PC)
Far Cry (PC)
Halo (Xbox)
Honourable mention to Gears of War.0 -
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Join Date:Posts: 51584
marcuspheonix wrote: »yes i played it years ago, dont get me wrong, im not saying its a bad game, but to say goldeneye is terrible is nonsense
We are talkn about Panzer Dragoon Saga the extremely rare RPG on the Saturn not Panzer Dragoon which has dated terribly. And yes, Goldeneye is terrible nowadays. The framerate of 5-10 FPS is unbearable, the AI is laughable, and it just doesn't play very well compared to the shooters that are out at the moment. It was good but going back to play it now and it just feels all wrong.
As for FFVII needing to be in a top 10 list, I disagree. I do love the game but it's far from the best RPG ever made. We were all 12 when it came out and it was probably out first RPG. Go back to it now and you will see that the story is a complete mess and the battle system beyond simple. It is a flawed masterpiece but in terms of RPGs there's a hell of a lot that are better than it. Fallout 2, FFVI and FFIX, Chrono Trigger, Panzer Dragoon Saga, System Shock 2, Grandia, Vlakyria Chronicles, FF Tactics just off the top of my head are more deserving of being ranked above it.
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Master of the UniverseJoin Date:Posts: 35093
You're pretty much saying the same thing I am actually
I think the issue with Goldeneye is the elements which have dated seriously effect gameplay (From what I've heard anyway) . Like low FPS. Low FPS in a game makes it very awkward to play and when you're used to playing new games of today, it makes it almost impossible to play.
I haven't played it myself in years and years though, so can't really comment on it.0 -
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Join Date:Posts: 51584
marcuspheonix wrote: »i understand that, but if i recall correctly retrogamer said that goldeneye looks terrible compared to todays shooters. i merely have goldenye in my top 10 because it was revolutionary in the fps genre and set the benchmark at the time. plus it had one of the best multiplayers ever. just because a game looks outdated does not mean it is not a classic. its like saying pele is a terrible soccer player because he has aged
I never said that I didn't rate Goldeneye because it looks crap. I'd never mark a game down because it's visuals are dated. Goldeneye looks like crap but there that's due to the hardware it's on. My problem with the game is that nowadays it plays like crap. Compared to Half-Life and games after it it's really very poor in gameplay terms. It's also got a truly terrible framerate which makes the game play poorly. One of my favourite FPS games ever in Doom 2. It looks terrible now but it plays so well and runs smoothly at a framerate of 60FPS or more. People also say the multiplayer is great in Goldeneye. At the time it was the only FPS on the consoles you could play multiplayer in and would have seemed amazing to someone that never had a PC. 2 years before Goldeneye I was playing lan games of Duke Nukem 3D and Quake as well as playing them online.
Just like O1s1n I'd say that the visuals in Chrono Trigger and Metal Slug are still absolutely amazing and are far better than the pseudo realism of games like Gears of War or Call of Duty. CoD and GoW are going to look terrible in a few years time while games with good art like Metal Slug, Chrono and Okami will always look as amazing as the day they came out. Hell, Robotron 2087 still looks stunning! And yes Chrono Trigger and Metal Slug are far better looking games than CoD, Bad Company 2 and GoW 2 and not just artistically. What's the point of making things more realistic when videogames let you create amazing imaginative worlds with stunning art.
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1 Monkey Island 1-3
2 Full Throttle
3 Super Mario World
4 Street Fighter 2
5 Digger(Dos)
6 Kameo
7 Super Ghouls and Ghosts
8 Balder's Gate 1+2
9 Sam and Max hit the road
10 Abes Oddysee
Im sure im leaving some out, not in any order as well. 0 -
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Join Date:Posts: 51584
Retro - this game is 13 years old. It looks like crap today, but it didnt 13 years ago. Back then it sold over 8 million copies, and probably contributed to what came next in terms of FPS games. Of course nowadays it plays like crap, but is that the fault of a 13 year old game running on an even older system? Or maybe because we have games today which were unimaginable back then?
Again as I said I'm not marking any game down because it looks crap, I never said that! Also when does a game selling a lot of consoles or contributing to how a genre developed ever been the qualification of a good game.Yeah Doom 2 looks crap today also, but when you say your running it @ 60fps, are you running it on a modern pc? Or a 16 year old pc which was around when Doom 2 was released?? I think you will find there is a difference. Run Goldeneye via an emulator with all the super duper direct x plugins that are available today and tell me it doesnt look better than it would running on an N64...
Actually Doom 2 running on a 16 year old machine would have been running on a 486 or a Pentium at the time and would have been running at 60FPS. Doom and Doom 2 were marvels of technology. They were well made within the confines of the technology of the time to run perfectly on the systems available, unlike goldeneye. Goldeneye pushed the N64 too far and resulted in a dreadful framerate that makes the game unplayable today. Sure you can play it on an emulator and get higher resolution and no crappy AA but the framerate in the Rom is capped and it still runs at a terrible framerate. I also would never run N64 games through an emulator because the emulation is far from perfect.By your own admission, it was the first mutiplayer fps on a console. That is what you should be remembering it for, not that its experience was lacking compared to Duke/Quake on a pc. I dont know about anyone else here, but when the N64 was around and Goldeneye in its prime, I could only dream of owning a pc...but I could never afford one back then. So Goldeneye stepped up to the masses, and provided vintage 2 player fun for hour upon hour.
Yes Goldeneye stepped up to the masses and offer console gamers a multiplayer FPS. It doesn't change the fact that there were better multiplayer and single player FPS games on the PC. Why would Goldeneye get in a top 10 list of games ahead of better games? Nostalgia isn't a reason. Innovation isn't a reason. It should be based on how good a game is and frankly nowadays goldeneye isn't any good and totally outclassed by the likes of Bioshock, CoD4 etc.It looks crap today, probably plays crap - but it didnt 13 years ago...thats how it should be judged. Retro gaming isnt always about how you feel playing those games today, for me a lot of it is about how it made you feel when you played those games years & years ago.
Yes retrogaming is about how you felt about the games back then. However a game shouldn't be judged on how you felt 13 years ago. Some games age and some don't. Super Metroid hasn't aged and it's still as amazing as the day it was released. Goldeneye however isn't very a very good game to play at all. It should be celebrated for what it brought to the genre but not held aloft of other games that are clearly better.
I used to think MK2 was better than Street Fighter 2 16 years ago. I'm not going to say that now because it clearly isn't true.
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marcuspheonix wrote: »retrogamer, u seem to be contradicting yourself in most of these posts. you did say goldeneye looks crap.
Then quote where I said it in my earlier post when you first brought it up because I didn't.marcuspheonix wrote: »and you asked "when does a game contributing to how a genre developed ever been the qualification of a good game" well if you dont think a game that is innovative and totally transforms a genre shouldnt be regarded as a good game then i wonder how much you know about games. and i played quake, doom, duke nukem when they were released and loved them, but they do not look any better than goldeneye when played today
Actually I would rank Quake, Doom and Duke Nukem ahead of Goldeney but I wouldn't rank them on looks, I never said I was ranking anything by looks. I'd rank them ahead of goldeneye on gameplay because they are better games to play and run at a reasonable framerate which makes them more fluid to play while goldeneye feels like you are moving through treacle. I don't know where you are getting me saying that I'm ranking these games because the visuals have aged because I never said it! And yes innovation doesn't mean a game is good. There's plenty of examples of innovative games that don't hold up. Renegade is regarded as a dreadful game in the arcades but was the first game to innovate the multiplaned side scrolling beat'em up. Hard Drivin' gave us the first racing game to use polygons but play it now and it's terrible framerate and gameplay make it a bad game (parallels with goldeneye, no?). Innovation doesn't make a good game but it can help. All that matters is if the game is still good to play now as it was back then and when you take off the rose tinted specs some games don't stack up while other games like Robotron 2087 are still amazing despite primative visuals.When a game sells that amount, its usually a good indication that is popular/good no?
No it's not. Rise of the Robots sold extremely well. Metal Gear Solid 4 sold extremely well. Fifa Road to World Cup sold extremely well. I could go on but these are a few examples of terrible games selling really well. Just because the general public deems them popular doesn't mean the games are good. This is the same general public that voted for Hitler and likes Coldplay.A Pentium if you were lucky Retro. On average most pc's knocking around in '94 were less powerful. My point is that running it on a pc today isnt a fair comparison. Doom 2 running on native 94 specs would not look the same as running it on a pc today. It might have ran @ 60fps back then, I wasnt lucky enough to own a pc, but I can be pretty certain its graphics & playability were different to running it on a modern pc. Besides, comparing pc games & console games today even draws arguments. The pc was, and always will be the domain of fps games - so cut the n64 a little slack, yeah it was out of its depth doing it...but in my opinion it gave it a damn good shot.
A load of my friends had 486's with turbo buttons in 94 when the game came out and I played the **** out of it. The graphics and gameplay were the exact same on those PCs as they are on modern ones since back then games weren't as scaleable like they are now. Even if Doom didn't run well back then you can't say it's a bad game since on later hardware you could run it perfectly. This is what happened with Ultima Underworld, a game that demanded too much of the hardware back in 94 but it's still possible to play it on later hardware to it's full effect at a good framerate. Goldeneye on the other hand is locked to really bad framerates so even playing it on an emulator you will still get all the slowdown from explosions and terrible framerate that contribute to the game not playing very well. Goldeneye doesn't hold up because it's been very much surpassed while games like Doom haven't aged at all because they are still really fun to play. There really isn't anything like Doom that came out after it that could turf around as many enemies (serious sam didn't feel right).If someone owes gratitude to Goldeneye on the N64, who is anyone to argue with how they view the game? While there are games named here that I wouldnt like, I DO respect that for some people the games provided more to them than to me. Id argue that innovation IS a reason to remember a game fondly. And when dealing with video games that are over a decade old, nostalgia is the most important thing about retro gaming. Technology evolves, there are an elite group of retro games that hold their own today, but for the most part is nostalgia based...I find it surprising you feel differently...
The thread is best games ever. Not 'what games you remember most fondly'. Sometimes you have to take off the rose tinted specs and just say 'I had a lot of fun with that game but it really doesn't stack up anymore'. I played the **** out of MK2 and loved it at the time. Looking back at it I realise it wasn't very good.In your opinion. A retro game shouldnt be judged on how it made you feel when it was new? Well judging it against far superior games isnt really fair is it? As I said there are an elite group that do hold their own, but are you seriously saying its fair to compare DodgeEm with GRID?
In a best game ever thread a game should be judged on how good it is not how it made you feel. I liked some terrible films as a kid like Hook but I wouldn't try to convince people now that it was a good film, why would I do that with games as well.
And yes comparing DodgeEm to GRID is fair. DodgeEm isn't very good GRID is better. And in a similar setting I'd take F-zero, Micro Machines or Mario Kart of GRID any day of the week despite them being old and not as technologically advanced as GRID
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Join Date:Posts: 51584
I'm kind of the opposite. I feel there was far too much hand holding in the GBA games (especially Fusion) and it never opened up and let you explore until the final act really. I've no problems with the controls in Super Metroid either and love how it's much more open and can be sequence broken if you really want to get into the game. It's not even that I played it when it came out, I only first played it about 5 years ago, in fact I think it was after I had played Fusion.
Actually a good example of nostalgia clouding judgement on games happened to me 6 months ago. I used to think HL was better than HL2 but was playing them both recently and I much prefer Half-Life 2 now.
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Join Date:Posts: 51584
In the Games forum (which you moderate), there is a thread called "Old Console Games You Would Like To See Remade" or something to that effect. I made a suggestion, and you bashed it.
I didn't bash your suggestion of snatcher, just said that making it more action orientated would be a mistake.In this thread, "Your Top 10 Games Ever", your bashing other peoples opinions. I think you have to realise that when you see the word "you/your" in a thread title, it might be aimed at ALL of us, not just yourself. Anyone who posts here should be entitled to name Goldeneye and not be childishly argued with "Its crap, its sucks, x was better" etc etc.
It's a discussion forum, I was discussing peoples Top 10's. The OP asked for opinions on his one, I gave one. Feel free to lay into my top 10 if you want. I'd actually look forward to that.NeoKubrick wrote: »The re-release of Perfect Dark has shown that that style is still relevant.
I was actually surprised that I enjoyed the Perfect Dark remake a lot more and it was down to one thing, the framerate again. I was surprised how fast the game actually is, it zips along, while just like goldeneye on the N64 it's running in slow motion.Page 2.marcuspheonix wrote: »ha, fair play to ya enternow, i knew he said it, hence contadicting himself
Not really contradicting myself. You keep trying to hammer it home that I said goldeneye was a bad game because it looks like crap when I said nothing of the sort. I only responded that it looks like crap after you said that I had said it looked like crap and was a crap game for it. I had said nothiong of the sort and hadn't even said it looked terrible. The only thing close to it was to say that the FPS were terrible which nobody sane can disagree with. And well it kind of does look ****:
That's without the blur and low res of the N64. I'm definitely not a graphics whore, here's a screenshot of what I consider one of the best games ever:
I know the thread is entitled your best games ever, I just think people need to take of the rose tinted glasses and see that some of these games haven't really aged very well at all.
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