Eurovision 2010.

JonathanAnon

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/rte-insists-eurovision-qualifier-was-above-board-2200531.html

RTE insists Eurovision qualifier was above board
Keating said organisers had hearts set on Niamh representing Ireland

RTE has rejected claims made by Boyzone singer Ronan Keating that Eurovision organisers had their hearts and minds firmly set on Niamh Kavanagh representing Ireland weeks before the National Song Contest formally decided the official entrant. In a statement to the Sunday Independent, the national station said: "RTE Television absolutely rejects any suggestion that the selection of Ireland's entrant for the Eurovision Song Contest 2010 was anything less than fair, transparent and above board."

"The full selection process from the public competition call to enter on December 10 2009, through to the Late Late Show Eurosong Special selection process on March 5, 2010, was independently adjudicated by Price WaterHouse Cooper (PWC)," RTE said. The Boyzone singer, who co-hosted the 1997 Eurovision Song Contest, made the comments suggesting that Kavanagh's selection was a foregone conclusion to disappointed would-be contestant Justin Lee Collins.

TV presenter and Eurovision fan Collins spent the end of last year and the first several weeks of this year trying to represent any country that would have him as its entrant to last night's Oslo contest. He offered his services to Estonia and Andorra before setting his sights on becoming Ireland's choice, with a song written by Keating and his writing team of Paul Barry and Mark Taylor. His quest -- which included a direct appeal to the Late Late Show audience -- was part of a television documentary shown on the RTL-owned UK TV station Five and watched in the UK by 437,000 viewers.

The documentary, A Song for Justin, featured Collins' frustration and anger that he did not appear to have been taken seriously by the voice of Eurovision in Ireland, Marty Whelan. In it, Collins is shown expressing disbelief that he did not even make it to the early rounds of song selection, despite having an original, custom-written song from Keating's "hit factory". "I am not bitter, it is not a bitterness; I am upset that I did not make the national final," he tells Keating backstage at Colston Hall in Bristol, where the former Boyzone frontman performed on March 2 -- three days before Ireland's entry was chosen. Collins asks: "Is it politics?"

Keating replies: "It has to be, it's a great song, the press and the angle they could get out of you performing, it is bizarre... [he pauses] I'm at a black-tie event two weeks ago, Keith's, Keith Duffy's black-tie event two weeks ago, in Dublin for autism, and these two guys I know really well, really into Eurovision, they know Eurovision well, they have written songs for Eurovision in the past, said to me the Irish delegation already know who they want and they want Niamh Kavanagh to win it and the song is picked and they want her to be there for Ireland."

The black-tie event to which Keating referred was for Irish Autism Action at the O'Reilly Hall at UCD and was on Saturday, February 13, almost three weeks before the national song contest. In their statement rejecting Keating's claim, RTE said they had received over 300 entries to the public competition. "The five shortlisted entries were selected by a five-member judging panel -- the same as that for Eurosong and ESC 2009. The panel consisted of identifiable independent individuals who have an established reputation in the industry: Eurovision winner Linda Martin (chair); MD Universal Music Ireland Mark Crossingham; showbiz agent/choreographer Julian Benson; RTE broadcaster and Eurovision Commentator Larry Gogan; and Diarmuid Furlong, head of the official Eurovision Fan Club of Ireland.

"Ireland's representative at this year's Eurovision, Niamh Kavanagh, singing It's For You, was chosen by 50 per cent public vote and 50 per cent regional jury vote (replicating the process of the semi-final and final Eurovision voting system) following the Late Late Show Eurosong Special on Friday, March 5, in which the five shortlisted songs were performed live," the statement said.

RTE added that public votes were registered by phone and text and this process was overseen by an independent adjudicator from PWC. "There were six regional juries from Dublin, Cork, Dundalk, Galway, Sligo and Limerick made up of representatives of the music and media industries alongside Eurovision aficionados. They delivered their verdict live on the night based on their viewing of the live transmission," the statement concluded.

I thought Keating would be keeping his head down. I do agree with the perception that Niamh was the "choice" of those who mattered. The show on with Mooney, and the LLS show Eurosong 2010, were both very biased towards Niamh Kavanagh.

comet

We sent a great singer but not a great song, she made it sound a lot better than it was.
Our song selection contest was a disgrace with the panel giving their opinions and annointing this song as their preferred one before people had even started voting.
That said I thought the national contest selection wasn't great and I don't think we'd have fared much better with any of the other songs.
Leanne Moores song was definitely more suited to the contest and may have got a few more votes but it would have struggled too.
As far as I can see Irelands biggest problem is the song selection committee. Its quite possible the best songs aren't even making it through, after all these are the people who put through Dustin.
As everyone has said the German singers accent was appalling. I guess this is what you get when most most countries are singing in English yet the vast majority of people voting and singing are not native English speakers.
There isn't much mystery to Eurovision, keep it simple and catchy, something someone can whistle/hum after one listen. Get composing people.....

censoredboy

sceptre wrote: »

Oh dear... need for questioning people who voted for a country in a song contest in the interests of national security.

When you guys stop doing that I'll happily consider visiting.

Thank God I wont be visiting Ireland anytime soon. Why the double standards.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/mcdowell-wont-reveal-number-of-phone-taps-hes-authorised-49609.html

http://www.aislingmagazine.com/aislingmagazine/articles/TAM21/EU%20Phone.html

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/true-extent-of-states-phone-tapping-could-remain-secret-1820417.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4786293.stm

Ash.J.Williams

dayshah wrote: »

Niamh Kavanagh was only number 20 in the IRISH charts. I mean, if we really want to win the song should be number 1 in Ireland. Why should other countries like a song that we don't?

I sick of all the sore loser talk. Germany were better than us. Niamh Kavanagh is a good singer, but the song was terrible. Other countries send some of their most popular bands and songs written by their best song writers.

If we really want to win we would need to send an act thats actually popular in Ireland. Someone like Snow Patrol or Neil Hannon. (I doubt Snow Patrol would enter, but Neil Hannon would be perfect given the Father Ted thing and I'd say he'd be up for the laugh).

Here lies the answer

Ash.J.Williams

Martin 2 wrote: »

Absolute rubbish!!!

I've lived and worked in several countries on the continent and found most people well disposed to Ireland, in fact most don't know us well enough to dislike us.

If we're so disliked how come we've won the Eurovision 7 times, that's more than any other country. I think the mark we got today was based solely on the song's merit and not on any animosity towards us


Are you sure you're not letting your own prejudices cloud your judgment?

7 times means nothing....the world has changed since then

Fergus

Gotta say Norway put on a very good show - the flash mob idea really worked and it was cool to see technology being leveraged to get real time video back from all the countries. The standard of the entries was generally decent, and the whole thing was pretty watchable for 3 hours, which hasn't always been the case.

I think the results have a lot to do with demographics and relentless commercialisation.. i'm guessing that majority of the voting was under 30s. In the last 20 years, it has changed into more of a pop idol / pop marketing contest rather than a song contest.

It's hard to see it ever going back to its more innocent past.

Resi12

robo wrote: »

Jedward or Crystal Swing!!!

No fcuking way, they're nothing but gimmicks, embarrassing gimmicks that should never be seem outside of here. I'd rather send Dustin again than them because I can say we would do no better than last night.

What we need is a young person with sex appeal singing a catchy pop tune, they aren't that hard to find. RTE must be deaf and blind.

Pittens

DWCommuter wrote: »

I offered opinions and possible reasons in response to other posts about the whole Eurovision thing. Im touched that you were narked about my "need to travel more" comment to such a degree that you opted for a geographical tour of the world. I won't go into the details of where Ive been or who I spoke to because I'm sure you would try to better it.

As for the rest of your post up above, well I know when Im dealing with an internet warrior that values their own opinion to such a degree that arguing with it would only add to your perceived headcount, so we'll agree to differ. You're deluded, while I'm pathetic and talk rubbish. But I'll finish with one simple point and its this. If what I have posted here is the greatest rubbish that you have read on boards, then I suggest you explore it more and do less dick or titty waving about yourself while you're at it. Opinions are okay, but trying to force your viewpoint down someone elses throat is really sad. So if you don't mind I won't just "accept" anything you have said because you were the height of arrogance in your request.

Pot. Kettle. Black. Although that is unfair on the other guy.

You were answering a guy who pointed out that we weren't hated in Europe, and that we were largely unknown. That is my experience too. Instead of answering that question you rant on about the poster's supposed "arrogance" for disagreeing with you.


Look this was a fun thread until you came along. Get out.

Quazzie

It's a simple concept when it comes to voting.

E.G
Ball the former Russian states like Belarus, Ukraine etc have a decent amount of Russians living in their country and they will vote for Russia via text and the juries will vote to music that's close to them because Culturely they are similar so musical tastes will be generally similar. The same goes for UK and Ireland, but we just have less neighbours to do it with. The fact that the song and singer were pretty **** means that we won't buck the trend and break down that system.

For me Belgium was the best song and singer followed by the more mainstream German entrant and that's why Germany won.

Pittens

Onthe subject of fun, I loved Lena. I liked her accent too, pretty common amongst youngsters in germany where they learn English in an American accent ( not just off the TV), and I liked the song which could easily have been a Lilly Allen song.

All good Pop.

it was a great competition - I just re-watched it as I read this thread after a meal out last night.

Honourable mentions to Greece, Turkey, Romania, Moldova and controversially France. I'd buy them all. I even liked the Russian song.

Anyway, the voting largely reflected that. Niamh belted it out but ballads dont really work anymore - do you remember any of the other ballads, there were quite a few - and so we need to get some rock or pop going next year.

EDIT:

And belgium.

Pittens

Ball the former Russian states like Belarus, Ukraine etc have a decent amount of Russians living in their country and they will vote for Russia via text and the juries will vote to music that's close to them because

Yeah, I dont think it is a love of Russia amongst the non-Russian population. So Lithuania is generally hostile to Russia, but the Russian population there ( about 20%?) votes. So it goes. The booing was nasty, as the Russian song was weirdly endearing.

Elmo

Over all the Eurovision is bad, bar the big production.

I am surprised that Niamh only got 25 and yet Spain got 68? I can see why the UK came last with only 10, it wasn't a very good song.

Again I would agree that Niamh is a brilliant singer and really made a bad song good, she deservered more than 25points, however it did not deserve to win.

The televoting situation as outlined in the cartoon above is a tiny bit wrong I always felt that this pack voting from Eastern Europe never provided a winner.

Since 1998

1998 Israel
1999 Sweden
2000 Denmark
2001 Estonia
2002 Latvia
2003 Turkey
2004 Ukraine
2005 Greece
2006 Finland
2007 Serbia
2008 Russia
2009 Norway
2010 Germany

I really don't think that those in bold could be accused of Eastern Bloc Voting, and I don't think you could assume that the ones not in bold could be accused either. (Russia could be made bold???).

They could end the competition put us out of our misery (TV viewing audience). Our they could revamp the competition.

Next year have semi-final one and two voted on by Jury alone, while also showing the votes on the night, the winning country gets to host semi-final 1 and the winning country of SF2 hosts next 2011 SF2.

Then on the night of the final remove all flags and country names and let the public vote.

Cork

Fair play to Germany.

Niamh has a great voice but the song was more suitable for Bunratty.

Why can't RTE get the Frank & Walters or Fred for next yaer.

We need to send a great pop tune.

Elmo

janeybabe wrote: »

Ok, the song isn't amazing, but it's moving in the right direction. Good looking girl who can move. Someone posted the video of Leanne Moore who was also a contender. She can't dance. She can do coordinated stepping from side to side and forwards and backwards but she isn't a natural dancer. We need a singer and someone who can move.

Of course that will never happen as long as we have Johnny Logan, Dana and Linda Martin pushing the ballad. They, along with Niamh, belong to a different era of Eurovision and need to realise that and move on. (Also, they annoy the crap out of me and the less I have to see of them the better.)

There has to be someone in (or out of) this country who can write a decent, upbeat, catchy song. Or is it just that RTÉ use people from the old era of Eurovision to choose the contenders? They're bound to ignore anything that would have a chance of doing well.

Anyway, well done to Niamh. She sang well. And thanks for the thread.

The irony of this is that there have been quite a few ballads winning the contest in the last 10 years.

Martin 2

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

7 times means nothing....the world has changed since then

True, the fact we won it in the past is no indication of future performance; times and tastes have changed as you imply.

However, you missed my point, I merely quoted the 7 times to point out that we weren't disliked as a country then (even if they were jury votes) and it's unlikely that we've become so disliked in the intervening years, at least I haven't seen much evidence.

I also pointed out that I believed our song was judged on its merits not on any voters' prejudices.

Aidric

The best song won it as it had a real cross over appeal. You can point to the old voting patterns still being in place but Germany hasn't traditionally done well and doesn't usually benefit from neighbours voting for them. The song was current and appealed to a Europe wide audience.
Ireland need to stop falling back on the trusty old ballad. That era is gone from Eurovision. When was the last time a ballad won it?
I don't usually tune in to the full show but I was hungover yesterday and didn't feel like flicking around all that much. Glad I did because the Norwegians put together an excellent production.

ballsymchugh

Aidric wrote: »

The best song won it as it had a real cross over appeal. You can point to the old voting patterns still being in place but Germany hasn't traditionally done well and doesn't usually benefit from neighbours voting for them. The song was current and appealed to a Europe wide audience.
Ireland need to stop falling back on the trusty old ballad. That era is gone from Eurovision. When was the last time a ballad won it?
I don't usually tune in to the full show but I was hungover yesterday and didn't feel like flicking around all that much. Glad I did because the Norwegians put together an excellent production.

last year unfortunately! well... according to the radio this morning anyway

Elmo

Aidric wrote: »

When was the last time a ballad won it?

No?

Ash.J.Williams

Martin 2 wrote: »

True, the fact we won it in the past is no indication of future performance; times and tastes have changed as you imply.

However, you missed my point, I merely quoted the 7 times to point out that we weren't disliked as a country then (even if they were jury votes) and it's unlikely that we've become so disliked in the intervening years, at least I haven't seen much evidence.

I also pointed out that I believed our song was judged on its merits not on any voters' prejudices.

Not so much disliked, however we have become irrelevent. We Have a team of dinosaurs trying to decide who to send based on 70's requirements. Before that we had the other extreme which was the whole country going "F*** you dana" and sending a turkey....before that we had bleedin ray darcy....

Some common sense is required

Toto Wolfcastle

Elmo wrote: »

The irony of this is that there have been quite a few ballads winning the contest in the last 10 years.

You're right. I should have said the type of ballad that Ireland seem to be able to produce. They're always from the old Eurovision, unlike the ballads that have won over the last 10 years. The way songs are selected and the people who select them probably have something to do with this. We can't be that bad at writing a decent song.

Martin 2

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Not so much disliked, however we have become irrelevent. We Have a team of dinosaurs trying to decide who to send based on 70's requirements. Before that we had the other extreme which was the whole country going "F*** you dana" and sending a turkey....before that we had bleedin ray darcy....

Some common sense is required

Indeed, essentially the selection process is the problem. Maybe we should form a jury from representatives from other Eurovision countries and let them pick our contestant, that way we might have more broad appeal:)

Aidric

ballsymchugh wrote: »

last year unfortunately! well... according to the radio this morning anyway

Ah no way. The Norwegian winner last year was a very upbeat number. It wouldn't be a ballad imo.

Elmo wrote: »

No?

Ya I suppose. Forgettable enough.

janeybabe wrote: »

I should have said the type of ballad that Ireland seem to be able to produce. They're always from the old Eurovision, unlike the ballads that have won over the last 10 years.

This is what I was getting at.

Fergus

Gotta say when we entered Rock'n'Rolls kids back in the 90s, I thought it was a deliberate attempt by RTE to avoid winning so they wouldn't have to pay for hosting it again.

Elmo

Strangely the song wasn't written by Irish People and Niamh was the only thing going for the song.

The other songs wouldn't have come anywhere in the competition.

Both Brian Kennedy and Mickey Joe Harte did well with ballads. While The McCauls and The Black Daisies entered with so called up beat songs only to come no where in the contest.

Even Dustin the Turkey's Up Beat comic tune failed, and in fairness to Dustin they did get every modern Eurovision sound out of the song.

Gotta say when we entered Rock'n'Rolls kids back in the 90s, I thought it was a deliberate attempt by RTE to avoid winning so they wouldn't have to pay for hosting it again.

One of the better Eurovision songs, while it is a Ballad it certainly isn't a Eurovision ballad, I would even question weather or not Niamh's win was a Ballad???


I don't get the Spainish, if you think we don't take it seriously.

Resi12

RTÉ need to stop being so bloody traditional, out actual contenders for the last decade have been pretty awful looking back, we need something upbeat and catchy sung by someone with a bit of sex appeal. It's not that bloody hard to grasp!

Elmo

Resi12 wrote: »

RTÉ need to stop being so bloody traditional, out actual contenders for the last decade have been pretty awful looking back, we need something upbeat and catchy sung by someone with a bit of sex appeal. It's not that bloody hard to grasp!

Like this one?

Euro_Kraut

Before we all get up on our high horse about 'political' (its geographical really) voting people should take a look at the results of the second Semi-Final: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurovision_Song_Contest_2010#Semi-final_2_2

We finished join 10th and only scrapped into the final. We got 10 points of the UK. That put is through at Sweden expense.

Geographic Voting put us into the final. We were one of the weakest songs in the final and it was reflected in the votes we got. Lena has been number 1 in Germany for weeks. It was a popular song in its own country. Niamh Kavanagh was number 20 in the Irish charts.

Resi12

Elmo wrote: »

Like this one?

Dammit I completely forgot about that one . Ah fook it then we're damned if we do, damned if we don't. That song was good but not a winning one though, was a bit too much imo.

Elmo

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Geographic Voting put us into the final. We were one of the weakest songs in the final and it was reflected in the votes we got. Lena has been number 1 in Germany for weeks. It was a popular song in its own country. Niamh Kavanagh was number 20 in the Irish charts.

There is an issue with the Irish Charts in the sense that many radio stations don't support Irish acts even those going for the Eurovision song contests.

I agree it has nothing to do with geo-voting. But this idea that Niamh was only #20 in the Irish chart does not explain anything since all of the You're A Star winners who represented Ireland went to #1 in the Irish charts.

EKRIUQ

Resi12 wrote: »

Dammit I completely forgot about that one . Ah fook it then we're damned if we do, damned if we don't. That song was good but not a winning one though, was a bit too much imo.

They messed up because they dressed butch, not what eurovision wants.

But this love for Ireland is grating me. Yes, the woman can sing. The song however, was a typical dated ballad that the Ireland continually put forward in hopes of winning. Not gonna happen. Ballads are out, modern music is in. Germany is testament to this. They used a song with a popular formula and won. Songs like Ireland's are nice to listen to, sure, but they are dated.

The contest doesn't need to be reformed. If we actually put forward a good, modern song that appeals to the masses (as Germany did!) then we're completely capable of winning. We came thrid last because we SUCKED, nothing political about it.