Build up to the 2010 European Championships, Barcelona (Steve Colvert qualifies)

Rineanna

20.90 for Steven Colvert! :eek:

Qualified for Barcelona! Closing date is today, so I hope he's just made it in time!

Big breakthrough!

1 9999 Colvert Steven IRL 20.90
2 1995 Haeck Joris ACW 21.36
3 2153 Verhoeven Wout VAC 21.37
4 1763 Herreman Lars KKS 21.66
5 3010 Moral Miguel BAEX 21.75
6 1960 Thys Ruben DCLA 21.84
7 2447 Verhelst Jens VAC 21.99
8 2690 Akenzua Neil ABES 22.19
1120 Van Belle Wim ACP DNS

TrackFan123

Big pb for Colvert!! This is only his second year in the sport, tremenous talent!

What was the wind reading? Legal??

thirtyfoot

Great from Colvert, 6th alltime behind Hesh, Brizzel, Ryan, McKee and Howard. Great work done his coach in past year to smooth into a top srinter, he will get faster and faster.

Rineanna

TrackFan123 wrote: »

Big pb for Colvert!! This is only his second year in the sport, tremenous talent!

What was the wind reading? Legal??

+0.3

runjb

great stuff, today is the last day for people to get times, the following taken from AAI's European Champs selection policy;

'Final Selection – 18th July 2010
In events where less than three athletes have been preliminary selected, athletes will have until 18th July
to achieve the necessary qualifying standard.
There is no automatic right of selection during final selection. Selectors will prioritise athletes who in
their opinion who will have better opportunities for success.'

Pisco Sour

runjb wrote: »

Selectors will prioritise athletes who in
their opinion who will have better opportunities for success.'

Yet no Fagan

Muppets!

thirtyfoot

04072511 wrote: »

Such a sickner for all the people who care about the sport in this country

I care about the sport and I am not sickened. Others I know in the sport aren't sickened.

I have slowly come around to the thought that we should not send athletes to championships who have regularly under performed at championships. Recently, Fagan falls into this bracket. How can we be sure he is fit and healthy, his most recent run in early May was a 30:24 10k? Will he run again injured and finished in a place thats well below his undoubted talent? Maybe the Euro Cross in Dublin was the straw that broke the camels back. Cragg falls into this bracket too recently but he probably gets more leeway as he is at a higher level and has medalled at a championship so he has some pedigree. Others fall in here also. In this instance if you have not shown form and have a dodgy championship record you should do all you can to meet the selection criteria and leave no doubt. NOt sure if this was expressly outlined to Fagan but based on his recent championship record it has been sketchy. Obviously when you go down the route of not selecting athletes because they don't have form or have a poor track record then you will run into controversy and it will be unfair. So, I'd be for a policy of only selecting form athletes who you believe will succeed or perform to potential. Haven't said that its the Euros so maybe it should be an exercise where you send anyone who has a standard as a development initiative. Then again probably no athlete should be gauranteed a place outside of say the Big 5 of DOR, Hesh, Heffernan, Loughnane and Gillick as they have done it in the big time.

The tightening of the junior standards as metioned in the other thread is more of a sickening thought to me. Anyone who has a youth, junior, U23 standard should go to a champs.

myflipflops

Tingle wrote: »

I care about the sport and I am not sickened. Others I know in the sport aren't sickened.

I have slowly come around to the thought that we should not send athletes to championships who have regularly under performed at championships. Recently, Fagan falls into this bracket. How can we be sure he is fit and healthy, his most recent run in early May was a 30:24 10k? Will he run again injured and finished in a place thats well below his undoubted talent? Maybe the Euro Cross in Dublin was the straw that broke the camels back. Cragg falls into this bracket too recently but he probably gets more leeway as he is at a higher level and has medalled at a championship so he has some pedigree. Others fall in here also. In this instance if you have not shown form and have a dodgy championship record you should do all you can to meet the selection criteria and leave no doubt. NOt sure if this was expressly outlined to Fagan but based on his recent championship record it has been sketchy. Obviously when you go down the route of not selecting athletes because they don't have form or have a poor track record then you will run into controversy and it will be unfair. So, I'd be for a policy of only selecting form athletes who you believe will succeed or perform to potential. Haven't said that its the Euros so maybe it should be an exercise where you send anyone who has a standard as a development initiative. Then again probably no athlete should be gauranteed a place outside of say the Big 5 of DOR, Hesh, Heffernan, Loughnane and Gillick as they have done it in the big time.
.

I would like to know if he was given a chance (outside nationals) to prove form and fitness over the roads. If he was and didn't do so then it's a decision with some basis. If it was a case of run nationals or go f**k youself, then it's a terrible decision.

Using the Euro Cross against him is irrelevant. 10k of cross country over the muck back in December is not something a marathon runner should be judged on. When fit, he has a terrific record competing on the roads against the some of the worlds best. **When fit** is obviously an important part of this arguement. He has top 6 potential in a European marathon. He was 11th in one of his major chmapionship appearance (10k in last Euro's) which was above expectations. The DNF when injured in Beijing probably stands against him in this decision.

I'd rather see him run and finish below his potential than not see him run and always wonder.

I wonder how far from being eligible for American citizenship he is. I believe he losoes all his funding after this year and when he's being ignored for event like Euros, it would probably make financial sense for him to investigate the the possibility of declaing for the US and making his living from road races over there.

Rineanna

Derval O' Rourke 12.96 in Italy.

woodchopper

Tingle wrote: »

I care about the sport and I am not sickened. Others I know in the sport aren't sickened.

I have slowly come around to the thought that we should not send athletes to championships who have regularly under performed at championships. Recently, Fagan falls into this bracket. How can we be sure he is fit and healthy, his most recent run in early May was a 30:24 10k? Will he run again injured and finished in a place thats well below his undoubted talent? Maybe the Euro Cross in Dublin was the straw that broke the camels back. Cragg falls into this bracket too recently but he probably gets more leeway as he is at a higher level and has medalled at a championship so he has some pedigree. Others fall in here also. In this instance if you have not shown form and have a dodgy championship record you should do all you can to meet the selection criteria and leave no doubt. NOt sure if this was expressly outlined to Fagan but based on his recent championship record it has been sketchy. Obviously when you go down the route of not selecting athletes because they don't have form or have a poor track record then you will run into controversy and it will be unfair. So, I'd be for a policy of only selecting form athletes who you believe will succeed or perform to potential. Haven't said that its the Euros so maybe it should be an exercise where you send anyone who has a standard as a development initiative. Then again probably no athlete should be gauranteed a place outside of say the Big 5 of DOR, Hesh, Heffernan, Loughnane and Gillick as they have done it in the big time.

The tightening of the junior standards as metioned in the other thread is more of a sickening thought to me. Anyone who has a youth, junior, U23 standard should go to a champs.

The Fagan situation has two dilemna's. Firstly if Fagan had intended to run 10k at Euros then he should have come home to race 5k/10k at nationals just like Chris Thompson did by running the English 5k championships, Chris is also based in America as is Cragg who ran nationals. If Fagans excuse was that he feared running on the track would effect his achilles then he is in no fit shape to run a 10k in Barca and most likely pulling up or not starting. Situation two however is greatly different. If Fagan had indicated that he was running the marathon which he qualifys for as AAI criteria equals a 28.30 10k, 65 half marathon and a 2.18 marathon. Fagan ran 62 minute half marthon in march so qualifys for the marathon on these criteria. Now if AAI told fagan that he had to run a 10k track race 3 weeks before a marathon then this would count as the worst decision made by a sporting body in the history of this country. Why? Because it makes no sense for Fagan to run a track race when every other athlete competing in the Barcelona marathon is tapering like all proper marathoners do. Running a track 10k could take a full week to recover hardly ideal going into a marathon. Also the training requirements are different for the two events so running a slow! 10k and losing to Gary Thornton does not necessary mean a slow marathon and vise versa. It would be inconceivable to think members in the AAI would follow such guildlines and hense on the grounds of common sense it indicate to myself that Fagan had intended to run the 10k at Europeans and not the Marathon. If so the AAI had outlined criteria for 10k no show no euros. The criteria for the Marathon held no such guildlines only to achieve the relevant standards between January 2010 and end of May which Fagan adherned to. Also I doubt Fagan would be running an 8k road race two weeks before a marathon if so then it would be foolish. Also Fagan has only ran 4 championship races in the past few years 3 euro cross and Olympic marathon. He came seventh in one of the Euros, had a bad fall whilst in third, achilles injury for the other two so to say his championship record is poor I believe is incorrect rather he has been misfortunate also forget to metion that there was a ninth place 4 years ago in European Championships.

myflipflops

woodchopper wrote: »

The Fagan situation has two dilemna's. Firstly if Fagan had intended to run 10k at Euros then he should have come home to race 5k/10k at nationals just like Chris Thompson did by running the English 5k championships, Chris is also based in America as is Cragg who ran nationals. If Fagans excuse was that he feared running on the track would effect his achilles then he is in no fit shape to run a 10k in Barca and most likely pulling up or not starting. .

Agree completely. He had no right to be picked for the 10k, an event he would not finish in the top 8 in pretty much whatever shape he is in. Marathon is just a different beast.

thirtyfoot

myflipflops wrote: »

I would like to know if he was given a chance (outside nationals) to prove form and fitness over the roads. If he was and didn't do so then it's a decision with some basis. If it was a case of run nationals or go f**k youself, then it's a terrible decision.

Thats the thing, there are many unknowns. It is probably worth giving him a punt at Euros as he would be a contender if fit but is he fit as recent history suggests he could struggle to be fit. We just don't know what has gone on.

If they said nothing to him and then said, you are not on the team as you didn't run Nationals, then that was stupid. If he said nothing and didn't say he would prove his fitness by doing such and such and instead just relied on his 3 race record in 2010, then that would be stupid too. As I said there are only 5 Irish athletes who should get away with that and Loughnane is an example as she hasn't been great in 2010 but will likely be in top form in Barcalona as she has proven it. It would be interesting to know what level of communication took place (if any).

thirtyfoot

Rineanna wrote: »

Derval O' Rourke 12.96 in Italy.

The DOR pre-championship run in commences.........

chrissor

4th for Chamney in 1:46:58
5th David McCarthy, 1:46.82 in the same race

Rineanna

chrissor wrote: »

5th David McCarthy, 1:46.82 in the same race

A PB, I think.

Rineanna

Just read on T&FN that Susanna Kallur won't compete in Barcelona. Still a few good hurdlers for DO'R to overcome, but no one in the field that she hasn't walloped before.

drrunner

Brilliant run by David McCarthy. Puts him 10th on the all time list I believe. Hopefully he can convert this into some kind of championship form (which will in all probability entail him having to be able to sit tight and kick in the heats). However, it still leaves the selection question unanswered - what injury prevented him from competing in Nationals last weekend? And if he was not injured, how come he was selected? I only pursue this given other selection controversies which are raging. If there is to be a policy around participation in Nationals, it should be applied universally. There are some serious questions around this policy which remain unanswered and until they are satisfactorily answered, the system can only be assumed to be non-transparent. But good luck to Mr McCarthy in Barcelona....

runjb

Brian Murphy running a 47.24 in the 400m too.

Very impressive run by McCarthy, that's a big PB and show's he's in the form of his life for Barca! I thought Chamney might crack a 1.45 tonight but still a decent enough time for him.

With Kallur gone it certainly opens up things a bit more, Derval should be confident going into these champs now. A decent 12.96 tonight will help her on, something similar to what she ran before berlin last year.

Giants Causeway

Tingle wrote: »

If they said nothing to him and then said, you are not on the team as you didn't run Nationals, then that was stupid. If he said nothing and didn't say he would prove his fitness by doing such and such and instead just relied on his 3 race record in 2010, then that would be stupid too. As I said there are only 5 Irish athletes who should get away with that and Loughnane is an example as she hasn't been great in 2010 but will likely be in top form in Barcalona as she has proven it. It would be interesting to know what level of communication took place (if any).

Olive Loughnane walked 1hr 28mins 36 in La Coruna this year. If you honestly think that is not good form in the lead up to a major championship you know absolutely nothing about the event. It amuses me to see such ignorant opinion of our only current world medalist.

Pisco Sour

runjb wrote: »

Brian Murphy running a 47.24 in the 400m too.

Very impressive run by McCarthy, that's a big PB and show's he's in the form of his life for Barca! I thought Chamney might crack a 1.45 tonight but still a decent enough time for him.

With Kallur gone it certainly opens up things a bit more, Derval should be confident going into these champs now. A decent 12.96 tonight will help her on, something similar to what she ran before berlin last year.

Derval is actually in better form than she was before Berlin. Her SB isnt reflective of her form. She ran a 12.80 with a 2.1 tail wind. If that wind was just the smallest bit lighter she would be right up there in the top 4-5 Europeans this year so far.

Pherekydes

chrissor wrote: »

5th David McCarthy, 1:46.82 in the same race

Which one? Big red, I presume?

Good run by Derval.

Giants Causeway

Tingle wrote: »

I care about the sport and I am not sickened. Others I know in the sport aren't sickened.

I have slowly come around to the thought that we should not send athletes to championships who have regularly under performed at championships. Recently, Fagan falls into this bracket. How can we be sure he is fit and healthy, his most recent run in early May was a 30:24 10k? Will he run again injured and finished in a place thats well below his undoubted talent? Maybe the Euro Cross in Dublin was the straw that broke the camels back. Cragg falls into this bracket too recently but he probably gets more leeway as he is at a higher level and has medalled at a championship so he has some pedigree. Others fall in here also. In this instance if you have not shown form and have a dodgy championship record you should do all you can to meet the selection criteria and leave no doubt. NOt sure if this was expressly outlined to Fagan but based on his recent championship record it has been sketchy. Obviously when you go down the route of not selecting athletes because they don't have form or have a poor track record then you will run into controversy and it will be unfair. So, I'd be for a policy of only selecting form athletes who you believe will succeed or perform to potential. Haven't said that its the Euros so maybe it should be an exercise where you send anyone who has a standard as a development initiative. Then again probably no athlete should be gauranteed a place outside of say the Big 5 of DOR, Hesh, Heffernan, Loughnane and Gillick as they have done it in the big time.

If your viewpoint was applied John Treacy would not have been selected for the marathon in 1984.The loss? A much coveted olympic silver. The marathon is not an event like the 400m that you can race frequently and show form at the drop of a hat.

Your reference to Fagan's time in the BUPA 10K on a tough course while still jet lagged and clearly running within himself is hardly representative. :rolleyes: He has a 62 min half marathon this year.

Your posts on sprinting are relevant but I fear your knowledge of distance events is clearly lacking. The vast majority of fans of distance running in ireland are disgusted at Fagan's omission. You don't care and thats fair enough but your posts on distance running should be taken with several heaped spoonfuls of salt.

How many times did Gillian O'Sullivan finish down the field in majors (Junior and senior) before Paris. We have lots of athletes who will compete in Barcelona that won't advance from heats. I say send them all but lets not keep Fagan at home on such petty grounds.

thirtyfoot

Giants Causeway wrote: »

Olive Loughnane walked 1hr 28mins 36 in La Coruna this year. If you honestly think that is not good form in the lead up to a major championship you know absolutely nothing about the event. It amuses me to see such ignorant opinion of our only current world medalist.

I stand corrected, that performance passed me by. She is in good form.

IrishTrackFan1

Giants Causeway wrote: »

If your viewpoint was applied John Treacy would not have been selected for the marathon in 1984.The loss? A much coveted olympic silver. The marathon is not an event like the 400m that you can race frequently and show form at the drop of a hat.

Your reference to Fagan's time in the BUPA 10K on a tough course while still jet lagged and clearly running within himself is hardly representative. :rolleyes: He has a 62 min half marathon this year.

Your posts on sprinting are relevant but I fear your knowledge of distance events is clearly lacking. The vast majority of fans of distance running in ireland are disgusted at Fagan's omission. You don't care and thats fair enough but your posts on distance running should be taken with several heaped spoonfuls of salt.

How many times did Gillian O'Sullivan finish down the field in majors (Junior and senior) before Paris. We have lots of athletes who will compete in Barcelona that won't advance from heats. I say send them all but lets not keep Fagan at home on such petty grounds.

Well if you want to bring up John Treacy and selection for major events then you are wandering into serious territory. Those of us old enough to have been around when the most disgraceful behaviour in respect of selection matters happened don't like to be reminded of it especially since the people responsible are still at the very top of Irish athletics.

Fagan should be selected pure and simple. If he was injured or not fit enough he would say so - he doesn't need a trip to Barcelona to have a bad marathon. So until we hear otherwise from him, I believe he should be there.

thirtyfoot

Giants Causeway wrote: »

If your viewpoint was applied John Treacy would not have been selected for the marathon in 1984.The loss? A much coveted olympic silver. The marathon is not an event like the 400m that you can race frequently and show form at the drop of a hat.

Your reference to Fagan's time in the BUPA 10K on a tough course while still jet lagged and clearly running within himself is hardly representative. :rolleyes: He has a 62 min half marathon this year.

Your posts on sprinting are relevant but I fear your knowledge of distance events is clearly lacking. The vast majority of fans of distance running in ireland are disgusted at Fagan's omission. You don't care and thats fair enough but your posts on distance running should be taken with several heaped spoonfuls of salt.

How many times did Gillian O'Sullivan finish down the field in majors (Junior and senior) before Paris. We have lots of athletes who will compete in Barcelona that won't advance from heats. I say send them all but lets not keep Fagan at home on such petty grounds.

Fight, fight, fight......I think you still looking for a fight after the callroom discussion? I will thank you for you acceptance of my relevant sprint knowledge, I will bow to your superior knowledge of everything else (including walks, note to self - always check tilastopoja before posting on topics you are half interested in) but not your knowledge of messageboards like boards' subtle ettiquette that when new don't go making fights too soon or at least until you are into triple digit postings or people might get the wrong impression, I will admit that anything over 1500m is of less interest to me than anything under 1500 and I will not engage you as I am under strict orders to not take this forum too seriously and get into fights online.

Its different times now to Treacy back in '84 (some might say due to Treacy being around in '10) but if you want to have a decent discussion on selection policy for major championships and whether athletes who are injured or out of form should be selected to avoid a Beijing situation, then I will engage you.

I appreciate by writing two paragraphs, I have engaged you.

woodchopper

Tingle wrote: »

I care about the sport and I am not sickened. Others I know in the sport aren't sickened.

I have slowly come around to the thought that we should not send athletes to championships who have regularly under performed at championships. Recently, Fagan falls into this bracket. How can we be sure he is fit and healthy, his most recent run in early May was a 30:24 10k?

Fagan injured his achilles in this race and was unable to finish strongly over a difficult hilly course. Secondly as pointed out previously one cannot compare European cross country in the mud of Belgium and Santry to the blue skys and hard road of the Catalan city. In anycase Fagan fell in Belgium as I have previously mentioned, this is hardly the sign of underperforming. Running stride for stride with Martin Lel and Sammy Wanjuri is sufficient evidence in my eyes of a man in good road racing shape. It was somewhat petty to use the Edinburgh example why not the Great Ireland run or the teriffic half marathon he ran in March.

thirtyfoot

woodchopper wrote: »

Tingle wrote: »

I care about the sport and I am not sickened. Others I know in the sport aren't sickened.

I have slowly come around to the thought that we should not send athletes to championships who have regularly under performed at championships. Recently, Fagan falls into this bracket. How can we be sure he is fit and healthy, his most recent run in early May was a 30:24 10k?

Fagan injured his achilles in this race and was unable to finish strongly over a difficult hilly course. Secondly as pointed out previously one cannot compare European cross country in the mud of Belgium and Santry to the blue skys and hard road of the Catalan city. In anycase Fagan fell in Belgium as I have previously mentioned, this is hardly the sign of underperforming. Running stride for stride with Martin Lel and Sammy Wanjuri is sufficient evidence in my eyes of a man in good road racing shape. It was somewhat petty to use the Edinburgh example why not the Great Ireland run or the teriffic half marathon he ran in March.

All good points but I am only trying to put forward some reasons why he may have been left out. The defence for him is strong. I have said he probably should get a shot at Euros but he shouldn't get a free ticket without having to prove fitness etc. It's all guesswork as nobody knows what has gone on, was he given a reasonable ultimatum that he ignored, was he given an unreasonable ultimatum, what event did he chose, his he over his injuries as in your defence you mention Achilles a lot, ie, he is injury prone. No athlete bar the Big 5 should just be able to walk onto a team on their word as there is nothing to back it up. There must be something else to this and until the full details are known then it's all guesswork. I'd prefer to see him there but the original contention that it is sickening is not something I agree with.

woodchopper

Tingle wrote: »

woodchopper wrote: »

No athlete bar the Big 5 should just be able to walk onto a team on their word as there is nothing to back it up.

Who are the big five that are immune to such decisions? I would consider putting Fagan in the 'big' five but thats just my humble opinion. Is it Gillick, O Rourke, Hession, Lougnanne and Cragg/ Fagan/Rob. I dont think you fully understand the competitveness of long distance running, its a lot tougher than race walking a European athlete orinentated event. This is not to demean the event but lets have transparency in this discussion, again slightly off topic. In any case no athlete should be treated any differently whether they are a medal favourite or an athlete who just scraped past the qualifying time. Democracy is a key cornerstone to any successfully run organisation something we can all agree upon.

ecoli

Getting reports that Fagan had a 23.2X run for the 8 k road race he ran at the weekend given he is in Marathon training low 29 10K rough shape off a race he wasnt happy with would seem to indicate that he is in shape so hopefully that will do enough to include him in the final team as he is showing shape like Dave Mac who also didnt run Nats AFAIK.

(cant find results for this race but just on what i have been hearing before people look for a link)

stmochtas

ecoli wrote: »

Getting reports that Fagan had a 23.2X run for the 8 k road race he ran at the weekend given he is in Marathon training low 29 10K rough shape off a race he wasnt happy with would seem to indicate that he is in shape so hopefully that will do enough to include him in the final team as he is showing shape like Dave Mac who also didnt run Nats AFAIK.

(cant find results for this race but just on what i have been hearing before people look for a link)

http://www.rmssports.com/results/10crazy8.txt