Landis admits doping, points finger at LA - Please read Mod Warning post 1

petethedrummer

Undercover Elephant wrote: »

As you say, Richard Virenque is a hero in France.

He's a national joke. I may be mixing up cyclists but isn't there a new catchphrase for non-denial in France because of him?

People say he was still being cheered in races subsequent to the Festina scandal, but he was merely being cheered on as anyone going up an Alp would be.

petethedrummer

Liamo08 wrote: »

Quick question for the guys with a bit of knowledge on these kind of cases.

I'm guessing Armstrong’s defence here is going to rely heavily on producing a bunch of witnesses to contradict everything that Landis etc. are saying. I assume he's going to produce plenty of ex-teammates who will say that they never saw him taking anything or someone who will stand up and say "I was there when xyz alleged events happened and that's not what I witnessed".

George Hincapie would be the ideal candidate for this. But according to CBS he has backed up Landis and Hamilton. Lance is royally snookered now.

It will be interesting to see if he turns on Hincapie.

Leroy42

Without wanting to derail this thread, Virenque was cheered after coming back, the crowds at the tour loved seeing him try to win the big mountains stage. This was a self confessed (belatedly) doper. That's the hypocrisy that I am talking about.

All dopers should be treated the same, regardless of nationality or how 'nice' they seem.

Beasty

Leroy42 wrote: »

All dopers should be treated the same, regardless of nationality or how 'nice' they seem.

I think those who confess (particularly to earlier offences that may have been undetected), do their time and then come back and try to help the sport clean itself up should be treated differently from those who continue to plead their innocence in the face of clear evidence and "convictions" to the contrary.

There needs to be some encouragement/incentive to come clean.

petethedrummer

Whether Lance gets convicted of a doping offence or trafficking or misuse of money I don't know. And he may never be prosecuted for anything.

Hincapie backing up Landis and Hamilton should be enough to confirm to the public what went on. Hincapie has no axe to grind. Never failed a test. Has no reason to want to up set the apple cart in cycling or to see its demise, he has a cycling clothing company. He is hugely respected in the peloton and Lance has referred to him as being like a brother.

I suspect overriding all Hincapies possible motives to keep schtum, he didn't want to lie in front of a Grand Jury. Unless, what CBS report about him testifying is wrong.

Caroline_ie

Leroy42 wrote: »

Without wanting to derail this thread, Virenque was cheered after coming back, the crowds at the tour loved seeing him try to win the big mountains stage. This was a self confessed (belatedly) doper. That's the hypocrisy that I am talking about.

All dopers should be treated the same, regardless of nationality or how 'nice' they seem.

Basso was banned and cheered upon his return, Vino was banned and cheered too. It doesn't mean we approve the fact they doped. And Vino is a cold b*astard.

anoble66

things are going to get very interesting for Lance if they decide they have enough evidence to go after him for fraud against the state.

Caroline_ie

anoble66 wrote: »

things are going to get very interesting for Lance if they decide they have enough evidence to go after him for fraud against the state.

Is that possible? Who is 'they'?

leftism

FISMA wrote: »

Armstrong was tested 500 times and no proof of doping? Are the dopers really that far ahead of the testers?

Absolutely yes! Its a very simple system. The scientists involved in developing tests for these drugs not only have access to the drugs but more importantly, know exactly which drugs they have tests for and which ones they don't... That information is for sale to the highest bidders. Simples!

Sure the infamous Dr. Conconi was being payed by the Italian Olympic Committee to develop doping tests. The information that these scientists possess is very valuable to professional athletes and sadly for the right price anyone can be bought.

The process of developing doping controls for a drug takes a long time, and must be validated and checked to make sure that false positives are kept to a minimum. So while a test is being developed, there is basically a green light for athletes to use it as much as they like! I've personally spoken to athletes with contacts in WADA laboratories that inform them of new tests coming online and of new drugs which are not yet detectable.

The introduction of biological passports has definitely improved things but the Contador case highlights the fact that the dopers have not stopped, they are simply getting smarter with how they go about it. Microdosing and low volume autologous transfusions are the order of the day now! Constant monitoring of haematocrit is becoming standard. Unfortunately there will always be doping, but more development of the biological passport system should keep the cheaters to a minimum. Thankfully the days of 60% haematocrit and riders popping asparin tablets like they were smarties are behind us....

TinyExplosions

FISMA wrote: »

Armstrong was tested 500 times and no proof of doping? Are the dopers really that far ahead of the testers?

See here. It's quite possible for an athlete to be taking banned substances and still never test positive, and even easier if their team is complicit in the doping (which is the thrust of the investigation)

ednwireland

Caroline_ie wrote: »

Is that possible? Who is 'they'?

Hard money trail evidence connecting Ferrari to Lance to US Postal to doping could be what ultimately sends Lance to jail, along with some teammates, managers, and others

http://fraudbytes.blogspot.com/2011/04/lance-armstrong-investigation-ferraris.html
yep jail is the endgame, the whole fda investigation seems to be about proving that gov funds (US postal sponsorship) was used to fund illegal activities (doping program)

Lumen

Unsurprisingly, BikeSnob is warming up the apologist lines-to-take.

http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/2011/05/integrity-vs-adversity-accentuating.html

Paraphrase: poor dopers, pro cycling is so hard it's no wonder they take a little something to ease the suffering.

AstraMonti

Lumen wrote: »

Unsurprisingly, BikeSnob is warming up the apologist lines-to-take.

http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/2011/05/integrity-vs-adversity-accentuating.html

Paraphrase: poor dopers, pro cycling is so hard it's no wonder they take a little something to ease the suffering.

In fairness he did continue after that with this bit:

For example, instead of smoking a bunch of costly "Wednesday Weed" in order to make the Grateful Dead sound good, you can simply save yourself the trouble and stop listening to the Grateful Dead. And if a climb is too hard, instead of cheating your way up it you should probably just stop riding

which you can paraphrase to: If you are not good enough and expecting to make money out of it, then just quit it and get a different job.

petethedrummer

So the fanboys can have one last dance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyUP5oxKezc

xz

just discovered Lance never took drugs at all. . . . he has 'ness'. . . . . . just been watching You,Me and Dupree

ThisRegard

David Walsh was just on Off the Ball and took a swipe at Phil Liggot for not acknowledging there may be dirty riders. I'm now conflicted, I admire Walsh but spent many a summer with Phil, what side of the room do I cross to ?

tippx

Good interwiew with david walsh cheif sports writer of the sunday times about landis and Co on newstalk, just finished (pick it up on the podcast)I came in half way through it Id say it started about 8.40 this evening,This really blows LA s claim about being tested over 500 times and returnig clean results when hincapie was tested well over a 100 times and still ended up clean, when now its out there that he dopped ,then again he,s propably doing it for the money:rolleyes:

penexpers

http://teamjva.com/lance-armstrong-soundboard/

Cjoe

I just hope Lance finally gets caught. Its like a bad smell hanging over cycling and the tour de france. I mean anyone who thinks Lance didnt take drugs has to really have a serious think about it. He won 7 tours in succession, beating some unbelievable cyclists who were also up to their eyeballs on drugs. It is impossible to do that without doping. Absolutley impossible.

ednwireland

Cjoe wrote: »

I just hope Lance finally gets caught. Its like a bad smell hanging over cycling and the tour de france. I mean anyone who thinks Lance didnt take drugs has to really have a serious think about it. He won 7 tours in succession, beating some unbelievable cyclists who were also up to their eyeballs on drugs. It is impossible to do that without doping. Absolutley impossible.

from the man himself
lancearmstrong Lance Armstrong
20+ year career. 500 drug controls worldwide, in and out of competition. Never a failed test. I rest my case.
20 May

Chips Lovell

His super high cadence enabled him to beat all those doperz. Case closed.

gman2k

ednwireland wrote: »

from the man himself
lancearmstrong Lance Armstrong
20+ year career. 500 drug controls worldwide, in and out of competition. Never a failed test. I rest my case.
20 May

His Facebook page is sickening.

petethedrummer

Cjoe wrote: »

I just hope Lance finally gets caught. Its like a bad smell hanging over cycling and the tour de france. I mean anyone who thinks Lance didnt take drugs has to really have a serious think about it. He won 7 tours in succession, beating some unbelievable cyclists who were also up to their eyeballs on drugs. It is impossible to do that without doping. Absolutley impossible.

No, I won't believe it until Lance makes a video of himself going to a Swiss chemist to buy EPO then inject in to his arm roaring; "THIS IS ME DOPING WITH EPO". Anything else is pure speculation. In fact the video could be doctored. I'd need to be there. And might have to be there during the manufacturing of the drug to make sure its actually EPO. Lance will need a DNA test and a recent electricity bill to verify that its actually him and not David Walsh in disguise.

petethedrummer

ednwireland wrote: »

from the man himself
lancearmstrong Lance Armstrong
20+ year career. 500 drug controls worldwide, in and out of competition. Never a failed test. I rest my case.
20 May

Lance answering a question nobody asked.

gman2k

petethedrummer wrote: »

Lance answering a question nobody asked.

Congratulations to Eki Ekimov on his 3rd Olympic Gold Medal!!

Cjoe

el tonto wrote: »

His super high cadence enabled him to beat all those doperz. Case closed.

No doubt he was a great athlete, but it helps to keep your cadence level high with a bucket load of EPO too.

Cjoe

petethedrummer wrote: »

No, I won't believe it until Lance makes a video of himself going to a Swiss chemist to buy EPO then inject in to his arm roaring; "THIS IS ME DOPING WITH EPO". Anything else is pure speculation. In fact the video could be doctored. I'd need to be there. And might have to be there during the manufacturing of the drug to make sure its actually EPO. Lance will need a DNA test and a recent electricity bill to verify that its actually him and not David Walsh in disguise.

Slightly naive

mloc123

What are his plans for this year? Is he racing an Ironman or is all that gone now with these new allegations?

Chips Lovell

Christ

Beasty

mloc123 wrote: »

What are his plans for this year?

el tonto wrote: »

Christ

If he can achieve that we'll all believe he can walk on water ....