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Landis admits doping, points finger at LA - Please read Mod Warning post 1

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,833 ✭✭✭niceonetom




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,636 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    ...the UCI is seeking to defend the integrity of the cycling movement...

    Does it have any integrity to defend?

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭Hail 2 Da Thief




  • Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Armstrong's attorney's statement:

    "Tyler Hamilton just duped the CBS Evening News, 60 Minutes and Scott Pelley all in one fell swoop. Hamilton is actively seeking to make money by writing a book, and now he has completely changed the story he has always told before so that he could get himself on 60 Minutes and increase his chances with publishers. But greed and a hunger for publicity cannot change the facts: Lance Armstrong is the most tested athlete in the history of sports: He has passed nearly 500 tests over twenty years of competition."

    The usual. Ad hominem attack on the person making the allegation followed by "most tested athlete blah blah blah". It's getting old.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,277 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    He's in the manure business now.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 11,393 Mod ✭✭✭✭Captain Havoc


    LA just responded on FB
    ‎20+ year career. 500 drug controls worldwide, in and out of competition. Never a failed test. I rest my case.

    EDIT: it's on 10 minutes and it has 2,000 likes.

    https://ormondelanguagetours.com

    Walking Tours of Kilkenny in English, French or German.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 11,393 Mod ✭✭✭✭Captain Havoc


    Fresh in, I'd say the PR machine is in the big ring.

    https://ormondelanguagetours.com

    Walking Tours of Kilkenny in English, French or German.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭FISMA


    The sound bytes are already out on this Sunday's episode of 60 minutes in the States.

    Tyler Hamilton has stated he witnessed Lance not only store EPO, but inject it.

    I am really not sure what to think any more.

    Armstrong was tested 500 times and no proof of doping? Are the dopers really that far ahead of the testers?

    Now Hamilton joins Landis as either having lied before or lying now. In either case, they are confirmed liars. Not to mention cheaters.

    Also, it took Tyler over a decade and the end of his career to come out and tell the truth?

    I have no love for Lance. But less for Tyler and Landis.

    If what they are saying is true, then they were complicit in a crime and accepted hush money.

    I just kind of wish the whole lot would go away.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 170 ✭✭baldshaunieb


    While I wouldn't claim to be the biggest LA fan in the world, a part of me has always hoped he is clean..........due to all the out of competition testing etc. Surely he of all people has the most to lose - how will all the people involved in the livestrong charity etc feel. It would ruin armstrong completely. Who knows now at this stage - mud slinging from all directions. When you weigh up the "evidence" or innuendo or claims by various riders ie landis et al, it does leave you with a sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach. If it turns out to be all true - including the UCI cover up, oh man, i will look forward to hearing what Pat McQuaid has to say then! It reminds me of Ireland and the golden circle of bankers....................


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,917 ✭✭✭✭GT_TDI_150


    I would be a great LA fan, my opinion is that either he is clean or he was taking stuff that they havent started testing for yet.

    there have been a lot of rumblings lately, and the aul' no smoke without fire saying tends to be true alot of the time. But it does seem people that are in trouble themself or require limelight for books are the ones stocking that fire.


    Personally I hope he is/was clean.

    Ps: am I wrong in thinking that LA and Tyler Hamilton fell out? I thought that was in LA's Book


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    That's the sound of the house of cards crashing down


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,913 ✭✭✭JacksonHeightsOwn


    Straight up,

    Who cares if he doped?

    Everyone was doing it then, so if he was doing it, then it was still a level playing field, and he still won 7 tour titles!!!

    I wouldnt be a massive Lance fan, but he's definitely done more good than bad

    And IMO, nothing good can happen if it's proved he was doping.

    People might not want to admit it, bit cycling would be no where near as popular as it is now if it wasn't for Lance Armstrong, he transcended the sport, he was the ultimate comeback and feel good story

    Just go ask some of the many cancer suffereres that he helps that Lance doped, I'm sure they'll have nothing but good to say about him


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 114 ✭✭spokeydokey


    Straight up,

    Who cares if he doped?


    I care


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,283 ✭✭✭kenmc


    if he doped he doped, just man up and admit it. his perch is way too lofty, and I think he's a fairly obnoxious human from what I've seen of his antics through the years. also, his attorneys statement has a void: says he's the most tested, but never tested positive. doesn't say be never doped. there's a difference


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,468 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Threads merged

    Beasty


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,176 ✭✭✭Idleater


    The Primetime Investigates team should go in to get to the bottom or at least get a bit of entertainment value ruffling a few feathers a la nct/dodgy taxis. Who knows what they'd find in the UCI for €50 :)


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,277 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Few thoughts.

    1. When it was just Landis, the "bitter ex-team mate" defence worked better. Now that there's two of them it sounds less plausible and it incentivises others to speak out lest they be seen as part of the problem.

    2. The weight of evidence before this came out already meant things looked bad for Armstrong. The people who should really be worried by this are the UCI. Now two people have come forward to say they helped cover up a positive test.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,235 ✭✭✭iregk


    People might not want to admit it, bit cycling would be no where near as popular as it is now if it wasn't for Lance Armstrong

    Strange then how cycling survived for so long before Armstrong came along and guess what? He will survive long after...

    The sport is so much bigger than any one rider...


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,277 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Hincapie:
    When asked whether he had a reason to disbelieve Hamilton, Hincapie, who rode with him at Postal from 1997 to 2001, said, “I’m sorry. I’m not commenting.”

    Leipheimer:
    When contacted by VeloNews, RadioShack’s Levi Leipheimer said it was the first he had heard of Hamilton’s allegations.

    Asked if Hamilton was a credible source, he replied: “I’d have to think about it. I like to give answers that are well thought out. I’m not going to have a comment tonight.”

    Vaughters:
    And Garmin-Cervélo’s Jonathan Vaughters, a former Armstrong teammate on the U.S. Postal squad, said: “I haven’t seen Tyler in over a year. He’s a good guy. I don’t know enough about the story to say more.”


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    he did bring the sport into the homes of others it would never have previously reached especially the American market.

    I know there was LeMond etc before him but they did not have the same Charisma.

    He raised the profile of cycling and brought big sponsors for all teams with him!


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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,277 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Time for a new defense strategy I think:

    "An older boy made me do it"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,265 ✭✭✭Junior


    el tonto wrote: »
    Few thoughts.

    1. When it was just Landis, the "bitter ex-team mate" defence worked better. Now that there's two of them it sounds less plausible and it incentivises others to speak out lest they be seen as part of the problem.

    2. The weight of evidence before this came out already meant things looked bad for Armstrong. The people who should really be worried by this are the UCI. Now two people have come forward to say they helped cover up a positive test.


    The others have already spoken, but not out, I am lead to believe that a number of former team mates (other than landis and hamilton) have given evidence against lance at the grand jury.

    Verbruggen is in big trouble - one wonders will McQuaid throw him under the bus ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭joker77


    el tonto wrote: »
    Hincapie and Leipheimer both still know which side their bread is buttered on.

    I can't see any active rider saying anything about Armstrong any time soon. Unfortunately


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,277 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Junior wrote: »
    The others have already spoken, but not out, I am lead to believe that a number of former team mates (other than landis and hamilton) have given evidence against lance at the grand jury.

    Verbruggen is in big trouble - one wonders will McQuaid throw him under the bus ?

    You're right. I've heard that a few have given evidence against him. I was more thinking about them going public on what they said. It's more complicated for other guys. Landis and Hamilton had nothing left to lose. The others want to protect their palmares and reputations. But balancing that against the perception that they're part of a cover-up is becoming increasingly difficult. I suspect we might see a few retirements at the end of the season.

    I reckon it might be too late for McQuaid to shift the blame on Verbruggen. I think he made a big mistake by immediately calling Landis a liar. He should have instead gone down the route of saying he was launching an internal investigation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭joker77


    el tonto wrote: »
    I reckon it might be too late for McQuaid to shift the blame on Verbruggen. I think he made a big mistake by immediately calling Landis a liar. He should have instead gone down the route of saying he was launching an internal investigation.
    In for a penny, in for a pound.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    Throughout the years of him being tested has every tester that has tested Armstrong been that incompetent? I think not.

    It easy to be cynical about him but he has never failed a test so the evidence is there for all to see.

    He has been right about the two guys who have came out and spoke about him, they had everything to gain financially and nothing to lose

    There are alot people who dont like him personally but he has been good for the sport and has used his fame to the advantage of others, you dont see many footballers etc doing that


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    kilns wrote: »
    Throughout the years of him being tested has every tester that has tested Armstrong been that incompetent? I think not.
    Marion Jones never failed a test either.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭joker77


    kilns wrote: »
    Throughout the years of him being tested has every tester that has tested Armstrong been that incompetent? I think not.
    Exactly how much do you know about blood doping, hematocrit levels, EPO, when it was legal, when it became banned, etc etc?
    kilns wrote: »
    It easy to be cynical about him but he has never failed a test so the evidence is there for all to see.
    He has failed a couple of tests actually, for one he was given a back dated prescription (corticosteroids)
    kilns wrote: »
    He has been right about the two guys who have came out and spoke about him, they had everything to gain financially and nothing to lose
    Riiiight
    kilns wrote: »
    There are alot people who dont like him personally but he has been good for the sport and has used his fame to the advantage of others, you dont see many footballers etc doing that
    Wonder what Christope Bassons would have to say about that.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,277 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    kilns wrote: »
    Throughout the years of him being tested has every tester that has tested Armstrong been that incompetent? I think not...

    You do know that for much of the time Hamilton was on the same team as Armstrong there wasn't even a test for EPO?

    That Jan Ullrich, Ivan Basso, Marco Pantani, Santiago Botero, Paco Mancebo, Michael Rasmussen etc. never failed a dope test either?

    That most of the high profile drug busts in cycling have come about from judicial investigations rather than positive tests?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 648 ✭✭✭lescol


    Tyler Hamiltons letter



    I hope this finds you all doing well.

    First of all, sorry for sending this out as a group letter. If there was any way I could come visit each of you individually, I would. I hope we are together soon.

    There's no easy way to say this, so let me just say it plain: on Sunday night you'll see me on "60 Minutes" making a confession that's overdue. Long overdue.

    During my cycling career, I knowingly broke the rules. I used performance-enhancing drugs. I lied about it, over and over. Worst of all, I hurt people I care about. And while there are reasons for what I did -- reasons I hope you'll understand better after watching -- it doesn't excuse the fact that I did it all, and there's no way on earth to undo it.

    The question most people ask is, why now? There are two reasons. The first has to do with the federal investigation into cycling. Last summer, I received a subpoena to testify before a grand jury. Until that moment I walked into the courtroom, I hadn't told a soul. My testimony went on for six hours. For me, it was like the Hoover Dam breaking. I opened up; I told the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. And I felt a sense of relief I'd never felt before -- all the secrets, all the weight I'd been carrying around for years suddenly lifted. I saw that, for me personally, this was the way forward.

    The second reason has to do with the sport I love. In order to truly reform, cycling needs to change, and change drastically, starting from the top. Now that I'm working as a coach, I see young people entering the sport with hopes of making it to the top. I believe that no one coming into the sport should have to face the difficult choices I had to make. And before the sport can move forward, it has to face the truth.

    This hasn't been easy, not by a long shot. But I want to let you know that I'm doing well. The coaching business is more fun and fulfilling than I'd ever imagined, and Tanker (editor's note: Hamilton's Golden retriever) and I are loving our Boulder life. I recently turned 40, and my friends threw the best '80s-themed surprise party in the history of the world (hey, most of you were there!). Life is good.

    Again, I just want to say I'm sorry, and that I hope you can forgive me. What matters to me most are my family and friends. I'm deeply grateful for all your support and love through the years, and I'm looking forward to spending time with all of you again, hopefully soon. My mom and dad always told me that the truth would set me free. I never knew how right they were.

    Sincerely,
    TH


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