The Avengers (2012) *spoilers from post 1181*

spankmaster2000

Ah no, not necessarily. If it has to be one or the other, I admit that it's a reboot. But I'm more comfortable with calling it a semi-sequel reboot

Replacing the actors doesn't have to equate to reboot; they did that with Rhodes in Iron Man, Rachel Dawes in Batman, etc (this is just on a much larger scale!) and Banner acting as a doctor / working in a bottling plant doesn't mean anything either; he simply changed jobs. After all, he's back to being a doctor again in Avengers.

Or, to put it this way, if a Marvel produced "Hulk" with the same actors/director etc came out after Iron Man; then it would have had the opportunity to include more Marvel universe connections, and would be less easy to dismiss as "non-canon".

Mitch Connor

Where the hell was War Machine? Lazy bugger.

AwayWithFaries

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Where the hell was War Machine? Lazy bugger.

You know what that's a damn good question. I'd never even thought about him. Would have made sense to have him there, you'd expect Tony to give his best bud a call with all the shít that was going down.

Nervous Wreck

spankmaster2000 wrote: »

Ah no, not necessarily. If it has to be one or the other, I admit that it's a reboot. But I'm more comfortable with calling it a semi-sequel reboot

Replacing the actors doesn't have to equate to reboot; they did that with Rhodes in Iron Man, Rachel Dawes in Batman, etc (this is just on a much larger scale!) and Banner acting as a doctor / working in a bottling plant doesn't mean anything either; he simply changed jobs. After all, he's back to being a doctor again in Avengers.

Or, to put it this way, if a Marvel produced "Hulk" with the same actors/director etc came out after Iron Man; then it would have had the opportunity to include more Marvel universe connections, and would be less easy to dismiss as "non-canon".

Replacing all the actors, the tone and the origin equates to a very well defined reboot.

johnny_ultimate

No need for semantics - The Incredible Hulk was simply a desperate attempt to give a character relevance again after the initial film fell flat on its arse. Ang Lee's Hulk was a brave failure, although helped Marvel learn the hard way that audiences and critics will harshly reject any film that doesn't provide the expected thrills or adequate levels of 'Hulk Smash'. That the film wasn't particularly good was certainly a drawback, too, and I think we can all agree the CGI dog-things were ****.

Personally, I think the Hulk as a character is too absurd by half to warrant such a creative risk. TIH was dumb and lacking in subtlety but entertaining on its own limited terms: much like the Hulk as a character itself. One can try and wring all the emotional and melodramatic force possible, but when the main character has a penchant for turning into a giant green CGI smashing machine, artistic integrity is always going to struggle to remain uncompromised. It's frankly easier and more believeable just to have Banner blow up some helicopters or something.

The comical, destructive Hulk of The Avengers - with Banner's simple, relatable motivations - was certainly a far more appropriate interpretation of the character when compared to Lee's.

don ramo

spankmaster2000 wrote: »

For me though, I'm not comparing it to Schindler's List, I'm comparing it with it's own series of films, and how much I enjoyed them.

I'm sure this will be different for everyone, but I'd rate it as follows...

1. Iron Man
2. Thor
3. Avengers
4. Captain America
5. Iron Man 2
6. The Incredible Hulk
7. Hulk

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

This isn't part of the series.

yeah its totally different, TIH quickly covered the accident in the starting credits, thus eliminating banas hulk,

my own now would be
Avengers
Iron Man
Thor
The Incredible Hulk
Captain America
Iron Man 2

i still enjoyed Iron Man 2 though, but id don't think it has great rewatchability, though i think i would still enjoy Captain America if i watched it again,

Mindkiller

Sounds like the same argument that Evil Dead fans have. It's a sequel in spirit, at the very least.

CiDeRmAn

It's been a good 2012 so far, Avengers, The Cabin in the Woods, The Chronicle, now to look forward to Batman...

constitutionus

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

It annoys me how much it annoys people that Thor got back. It is clearly stated at the end of Thor that he is not stuck in Asgard.

Thor: So Earth is lost to us...
Heimdall: No. There is always hope.


It may not have been the ideal way of explaining his return ("How much magic did the AllFather have to conjure..") but tbh, I thought his entrance was awesome. I got a shiver. And I loved how Loki seemed genuinely scared when he realised Thor was coming for him.

he actually says "dark energy" instead of dark magic which is actually really kinda cool as it has the allusions of magic but is actually a real scientific term for somthing thats meant to make up 95% of the universe or so.

im pretty sure its implied that its the powersource for the tesseract too if the facililty its held in at the begining is anything to go by (dark energy research center or something ?)

be a nice nod of the head if in thor 2 we see power shortages or some such in asgard to account for all the stuff used to get thor to earth, but then again i suppose he's got the tesseract back so it should be business as usual.

one of the fun things about thor is just how well magic can be explained as high science and it works ridiculously well.

on the coulson thing

it'd be kinda cheap to bring him back. after all the bloke just about said himself before croaking it that the avengers needed someone to avenge or it wouldnt work.

and he's it which TBH is kinda nice considering his role in these films.

its genuinly surprised me just how fond i got of phil.

Handsome Bob

Re: Coulson

There were rumours on fan forums that Banner and Stark would bring Coulson back to life as Vision. Apparently they made a throw away comment in the film about being MD...something, can't remember the full phrase, it means creating robotic or mechanical life or something. Most likely bollocks though.

Nervous Wreck

constitutionus wrote: »

it'd be kinda cheap to bring him back. after all the bloke just about said himself before croaking it that the avengers needed someone to avenge or it wouldnt work.

and he's it which TBH is kinda nice considering his role in these films.

its genuinly surprised me just how fond i got of phil.

Agreed.

Sad to see him go but having him bring them all together in their separate films and finally 'unite' them with his death was a really great angle.

paddy kerins

sheehy83 wrote: »

I think they will go the civil war route in Avengers 2 with each of their next individual films hinting at it coming. Obviously they wouldn't be able to do a large scale one as they don't have rights to a lot of the characters but I think they will borrow heavily from that story line. Well I hope anyway, I loved that story.

I think Feige said he'd like to do a Civil War stroyline with no. 3. As for the next one

if the mid-credits scene is anything to go by, it'll deal with Thanos and possibly the Infinity Gauntlet

Penn

Handsome Bob wrote: »

Re: Coulson

There were rumours on fan forums that Banner and Stark would bring Coulson back to life as Vision. Apparently they made a throw away comment in the film about being MD...something, can't remember the full phrase, it means creating robotic or mechanical life or something. Most likely bollocks though.

When Coulson calls Stark early in the film, Stark says "You have reached the LMD of Tony Stark". LMD = Life Model Decoy, a robotic decoy some characters have used (usually Nick Fury). I doubt they'd go so far as to create a LMD of him just to get him back in the films, but somehow making him the Vision could be quite interesting....

PerrinV2

Re-coulsen

Audio interview here with kevin feige http://www.comicbookmovie.com/avengers/news/?a=58869
pretty much says ya they killed him off but the words lmd are mentioned in the movie

don ramo

great things about comics is there's

always a way back

:D:D

Otacon

don ramo wrote: »

great things about comics is there's

always a way back

:D:D

However, this is a movie and

it would be cheap to bring him back. It works better this way IMO.

Turtwig

I'm still not convinced he's actually dead. . .

johnny_ultimate

Ah here! Just let the chap rest in peace!

Turtwig

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Ah here! Just let the chap rest in peace!

That's his fault for having such an ambiguous death. So no sympathy there.

Baggly

What ambiguity?!

don ramo

Otacon wrote: »

this is a movie [/SPOILER]

based on comics,

plastic glass

edit

Zero-Cool

You might want to spoiler that man for the 1 or 2 people who haven't seen this yet.

Otacon

don ramo wrote: »

based on comics,

humanji

Coulson will be back in any of the films that are set before The Avengers. I'd say that Thor 2 will most likely be one of them, as I suspect there's loads of backstory to fill in the events between Thor and Avengers Assemble. There's also a Nick Fury origins film that was in the works (don't know the status of it now) and he's rumoured to be in Iron Man 3 (although that may have been before people realised what happened in thss film). Oh, and as he was a big Captain America fan, they may fit him in there too.

His death was necessary in this film and bringing him back would be cheap and ultimately pointless, IMO.

Organic Cavity

humanji wrote: »

Coulson will be back in any of the films that are set before The Avengers. I'd say that Thor 2 will most likely be one of them, as I suspect there's loads of backstory to fill in the events between Thor and Avengers Assemble. There's also a Nick Fury origins film that was in the works (don't know the status of it now) and he's rumoured to be in Iron Man 3 (although that may have been before people realised what happened in thss film). Oh, and as he was a big Captain America fan, they may fit him in there too.

His death was necessary in this film and bringing him back would be cheap and ultimately pointless, IMO.

How would they fit him in a captain america 2 when the cards weren't signed?

Great film, highlight of the year so far.

humanji

Organic Cavity wrote: »

How would they fit him in a captain america 2 when the cards weren't signed?

Great film, highlight of the year so far.

He made mention of watching Cap sleep. So they may not interact together, but he could easily be in it.

Nervous Wreck

humanji wrote: »

He made mention of watching Cap sleep. So they may not interact together, but he could easily be in it.

He was talking about

being there when they thawed Cap.

You're grasping at straws.

don ramo

its said in black and white that phil and cap never met face to face till cap boarded the carrier, so he cant be in Cap 2

that was also Thors first visit to earth since the bi-frost was blown up, so there is also no way he could be in Thor 2,

Iron Man 3 could be a possibility though id assume that would happen after the events in this,

an outside bet could be Hulk if they make it, but he could definitely be in a S.H.E.I.L.D or fury film,

Long Live Super Phil !