The Avengers (2012) *spoilers from post 1181*

Mickeroo

Yea, was that extra scene a prank or what? I stayed until the very end of the credits expecting another scene dammit!

johnny_ultimate

Drumpot wrote: »

1. What exactly did you expect when you went to see the movie ?

I expected a superhero movie, and I expected a Joss Whedon film. I got both, albeit not to the quality I had hoped.

2. Did you not enjoy the movie because it wasnt good or was it because you had decided before watching it that you would use the opportunity to pan a popular movie?

Talk about a loaded question! And, as has been stressed a number of times to some apparently deaf ears, it's not that anyone didn't enjoy it. As far as I know, everyone on this thread did. It's because it, in many people's opinion, fell short on its own terms while still being a pleasantly diverting evening's light entertainment.

Having already seen at least ten to twenty films I'd refer to as 'great' this year - ranging from the happily mainstream to the decidedly arthouse - The Avengers is merely 'good'. It would be nice if such a statement wasn't taken as some anti-populist agenda, but rather a mere statement of opinion.

Nervous Wreck

It annoys me how much it annoys people that Thor got back. It is clearly stated at the end of Thor that he is not stuck in Asgard.

Thor: So Earth is lost to us...
Heimdall: No. There is always hope.


It may not have been the ideal way of explaining his return ("How much magic did the AllFather have to conjure..") but tbh, I thought his entrance was awesome. I got a shiver. And I loved how Loki seemed genuinely scared when he realised Thor was coming for him.

Nervous Wreck

Mickeroo wrote: »

I think there's absolutely no way that

Coulson is alive, in a way its a shame because I felt he was a little under used in this and deserved a slightly bigger role from his involvement in the other movies.Using the trading cards was to spur the others on by showing them how much phil believed in them.

As for going the Civil war route, though you might see elements being borrowed, I think there's absolutely no chance of it happening because basically there's not enough established super-heroes in the universe yet and also, and here's the biggest barrier everyone suggesting this seems to be missing, not ONE of the Avengers has a secret identity, not ONE, which would make the Superhuman registration act storyline completely pointless.

Agreed. On top of this, I'd really hate to see them do a Civil War movie. It was great in the comics, sure, but in the movieverse, the characters (apart from Iron Man, who's going into his 4th film) aren't established enough to now have them suddenly turn against each other. We only just saw them start to work together in the last 40 minutes of The Avengers; I don't wanna see them turned against each other so quickly.



I'm also a little disappointed that nobody's talking about Captain America. I think he really shone in this movie, which is an especially good achievement, considering how poorly his own film turned out, on the whole.

Mickeroo

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

It annoys me how much it annoys people that Thor got back. It is clearly stated at the end of Thor that he is not stuck in Asgard.

Thor: So Earth is lost to us...
Heimdall: No. There is always hope.


It may not have been the ideal way of explaining his return ("How much magic did the AllFather have to conjure..") but tbh, I thought his entrance was awesome. I got a shiver. And I loved how Loki seemed genuinely scared when he realised Thor was coming for him.

Yeah, I understand the misgivings and that, but I think they did enough with Loki mentioning dark magic and also Thor getting Portman's character moved to a safer location. I like that he showed up out of the blue, strutted in and nonchalantly grabbed Loki.

There was no need for exposition, we know Heimdall can see whats happening on earth, so it stands to reason he would notify Odin that Loki is trying to take Midgard for his own which would then facilitate the Allfather sending Thor back to sort him out. Sure Thor could have gone to say Hi to Portman but he's a warrior and had more pressing matters at hand (I myself would have made time though :P).

Mickeroo

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

I'm also a little disappointed that nobody's talking about Captain America. I think he really shone in this movie, which is an especially good achievement, considering how poorly his own film turned out, on the whole.

I really like his own movie, though the second half was a bit too rushed.

I thought they did a good job with him in this too, but I would have liked one or two scenes where he tries to track down peggy/visit her grave. I also think it was a missed opportunity to not mention his relationship with Howard Stark in relation to Tony, that could have given real meat to the verbal jousting between the two.

missingtime

Just to confirm any doubt that was in my head, that was

The Red Baron from The Captain America film in the end credits

Otacon

missingtime wrote: »

Just to confirm any doubt that was in my head, that was

The Red Baron from The Captain America film in the end credits

Nope, Thanos

missingtime

Otacon wrote: »

Nope, Thanos

Ooooooo....exciting

spankmaster2000

Mickeroo wrote: »

I really like his own movie, though the second half was a bit too rushed.

I thought they did a good job with him in this too, but I would have liked one or two scenes where he tries to track down peggy/visit her grave. I also think it was a missed opportunity to not mention his relationship with Howard Stark in relation to Tony, that could have given real meat to the verbal jousting between the two.

I believe that Whedon himself said that Captain America suffered from the most cuts in the editing room. For the supposed leader of the team, I don't think he was developed enough. Particularly considering all Whedon's talk of the Captain being our point of reference for the story.

And I quite liked the Captain America film! (But, much preferred the Avengers!).
Also; his new costume sucked.

Nervous Wreck

Mickeroo wrote: »

Yeah, I understand the misgivings and that, but I think they did enough with Loki mentioning dark magic and also Thor getting Portman's character moved to a safer location. I like that he showed up out of the blue, strutted in and nonchalantly grabbed Loki.

There was no need for exposition, we know Heimdall can see whats happening on earth, so it stands to reason he would notify Odin that Loki is trying to take Midgard for his own which would then facilitate the Allfather sending Thor back to sort him out. Sure Thor could have gone to say Hi to Portman but he's a warrior and had more pressing matters at hand (I myself would have made time though :P).

Exactly!

Mickeroo wrote: »

I really like his own movie, though the second half was a bit too rushed.

I thought they did a good job with him in this too, but I would have liked one or two scenes where he tries to track down peggy/visit her grave. I also think it was a missed opportunity to not mention his relationship with Howard Stark in relation to Tony, that could have given real meat to the verbal jousting between the two.

I actually really liked the Cap movie too (though I agree with the second half being rushed, and it's not the only problem therein). He really did well in The Avengers though. I loved how lost he seemed for so much of the movie and how, even though he was the voice of reason, the other heroes didn't really pay him much heed

like when he was trying to stop Thor and Iron Man fighting

. Then towards the end, when the battle really got heated, he came into his own and

led the team

. I also love how Whedon made a point of showing that Cap is still

just a human. He's seen to be genuinely hurt several times (like when he was flung out the window and landed on a car) and, though you can see that he's in a lot of pain (cuts visible through tears in his uniform, getting shot in the stomach), he sucks it up and gets the job done. Evans played a blinder that, I think, was a little overlooked in favour of the glamour of the other heroes

.

missingtime wrote: »

Just to confirm any doubt that was in my head, that was

The Red Baron from The Captain America film in the end credits

It was

Thanos

.

Drumpot

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I expected a superhero movie, and I expected a Joss Whedon film. I got both, albeit not to the quality I had hoped.



Talk about a loaded question! And, as has been stressed a number of times to some apparently deaf ears, it's not that anyone didn't enjoy it. As far as I know, everyone on this thread did. It's because it, in many people's opinion, fell short on its own terms while still being a pleasantly diverting evening's light entertainment.

Having already seen at least ten to twenty films I'd refer to as 'great' this year - ranging from the happily mainstream to the decidedly arthouse - The Avengers is merely 'good'. It would be nice if such a statement wasn't taken as some anti-populist agenda, but rather a mere statement of opinion.

I have seen alot of movies this and last year and I believe this was easily one of the better movies released for what it promised.

I know movie views are subjective, but moreoften then not, these movies in particular are a huge letdown. I have watched all the comicbook movies over the years and this surpasses most of them.

Perhaps your expectations were higher then mine, but if you expect a classic and you get a good film, in my book thats a 7-8/10.

I wasnt having a go at people who think the movie was good, I wouldnt class a 6/10 or lower as a good movie, these were the people I was focusing on. Particularly with these kind of popcorn movies, I notice people reviewing them in as if they were reviewing schindlers list or the Godfather which is ridiculous.

spankmaster2000

For me though, I'm not comparing it to Schindler's List, I'm comparing it with it's own series of films, and how much I enjoyed them.

I'm sure this will be different for everyone, but I'd rate it as follows...

1. Iron Man
2. Thor
3. Avengers
4. Captain America
5. Iron Man 2
6. The Incredible Hulk
7. Hulk

Nervous Wreck

spankmaster2000 wrote: »

For me though, I'm not comparing it to Schindler's List, I'm comparing it with it's own series of films, and how much I enjoyed them.

I'm sure this will be different for everyone, but I'd rate it as follows...

1. Iron Man
2. Thor
3. Avengers
4. Captain America
5. Iron Man 2
6. The Incredible Hulk
7. Hulk

This isn't part of the series.

Handsome Bob

Drumpot wrote: »

?
2. Did you not enjoy the movie because it wasnt good or was it because you had decided before watching it that you would use the opportunity to pan a popular movie?

Ah this oul chestnut. I've enjoyed everything Marvel Studios has given us so far, I probably even think more of the likes of IM2, Thor and CA:TFA than most do.

So yeah, I went into this film very excited. As someone else said, it was 4 years in the making so I've been looking forward to it for a very long time.

But it just didn't knock me out. I enjoyed X Men: First Class moreso than The Avengers because it's just a better all round made film. The Avengers is heavy on action, and good action to boot, but other than that I found it lightweight bar some interesting exchanges.

I enjoyed it yeah, but it's no better than a 3/5 rating. IMO of course.

spankmaster2000

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

This isn't part of the series.

Aye, but while it's a reboot; The Incredible Hulk is also sequel to it of sorts. I suppose I've just included it because it's another appearance by one of the Avengers from recent years.
And I also enjoyed it.

Nervous Wreck

spankmaster2000 wrote: »

Aye, but while it's a reboot; The Incredible Hulk is also sequel to it of sorts. I suppose I've just included it because it's another appearance by one of the Avengers from recent years.
And I also enjoyed it.

No, it's not. It's a reboot.

Handsome Bob

I would say semi-reboot. TIH skipped the origin and started off where Hulk 2003 left off (kind of).

Penn

They only skipped over the whole "Origin" part of the story and just showed it as part of the main title sequence (with Ed Norton and Liv Tyler) because it's been done to death and any important part of it could be told during the film, but it's definitely a reboot.

Mickeroo

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

No, it's not. It's a reboot.

In fairness, I think they're coming from the point of view that Ang Lee's Hulk finished with Banner hiding in South America and Le Terrier's one picked up with him hiding in South America. In that way it could be seen as a very loose continuation, but over all I would also consider it a reboot as the tone was very very different and they had also brought the Gamma radiation back into it rather than the genetic experiments of Lee's film.

syklops

Handsome Bob wrote: »

I would say semi-reboot. TIH skipped the origin and started off where Hulk 2003 left off (kind of).

I thought TIH completely ignored hulk ever existed? Good thing too imo.

Zubeneschamali

spankmaster2000 wrote: »

The Incredible Hulk is also sequel to it of sorts.

Of sorts? It's a direct sequel! They even do a "Previously on Hulk" during the opening titles! Just casting different actors as Banner, Betty and the General doesn't make it a reboot.

Nervous Wreck

Mickeroo wrote: »

In fairness, I think they're coming from the point of view that Ang Lee's Hulk finished with Banner hiding in South America and Le Terrier's one picked up with him hiding in South America. In that way it could be seen as a very loose continuation, but over all I would also consider it a reboot as the tone was very very different and they had also brought the Gamma radiation back into it rather than the genetic experiments of Lee's film.

Fair point so! But the current universe is definitely a separate one created in Lee's film; defo a reboot. Genetic experiments.... god dammit.

Mickeroo

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Of sorts? It's a direct sequel! They even do a "Previously on Hulk" during the opening titles! Just casting different actors as Banner, Betty and the General doesn't make it a reboot.

I would say changing the mythology and tone makes it a reboot more than a sequel, in Ang Lee's one its a genetic experiment in the Norton one its back to being Gamma radiation again.

I acknowledge it does pick up where the other left off in some ways but in others, not so much.

Mickeroo

Mickeroo wrote: »

I think there's absolutely no way that

Coulson is alive

Because that never happens in comic books We shall wait and see.

Crooked Jack

Does anyone else find the Thor/Loki stuff really off putting. Personally I felt that it just didnt fit in, like it was from a different movie. Kind of ruined Avengers for me. Still, the rest of the film was good.

Handsome Bob

syklops wrote: »

I thought TIH completely ignored hulk ever existed? Good thing too imo.

Oh yeah, it absolutely avoided any blatant links. If a gun was put to my head I would definitely side with it being a reboot.

I recently caught Hulk 2003 and it's just bizarre, that's the best word I can used to describe it.

krudler

Handsome Bob wrote: »

Oh yeah, it absolutely avoided any blatant links. If a gun was put to my head I would definitely side with it being a reboot.

I recently caught Hulk 2003 and it's just bizarre, that's the best word I can used to describe it.

its a mess, it wants to be a deep family drama but has a giant green man in shorts fighting tanks as well.

Otacon

It's a reboot. Not only did they change the actors, the origin was different [an accident where Banner tries to save a colleague to Banner volunteering to undergo gamma radiation with General Ross involved] and it didn't pick up where Hulk left off [Banner was acting as a doctor in Hulk. He was working in a drink bottling plant in TIH].

plastic glass

Saw this yesterday (in 2D the way to go if you ask me). Loved it. Is what a comic book movie should be. I dont think anyone should underestimate how hard this was to get right. You had four of Marvel's biggest heroes and personalities on screen and yet it somehow worked. Ok there were a few problems but overall I think Whedon did a great job. By the way I don't think it was a typically Whedon movie. Its as if he first and foremost wanted to make a Marvel/Avengers movie. Knew there wasnt much room to put his Whedon stamp on it.

Ok it isnt as good as Batman beigin or the dark knight but imo they arent really comic book movies (esp tdk). Dont get me wrong I love those films but I think they are movies that just happen to have a comic book character(s) in them. The Avengers is a proper comic book film. Its as close you can get to a comic on film