Sky: "Protesters Storm Irish Parliament"

FTA69

Chief--- wrote: »

It is not "illegal" for Gardai to remove their district numbers from their shoulders.

Even while they're on active duty, as in during the Reclaim the Streets march a few years ago? I'll defer to your knowledge on that front, even though I do consider it odd a few of them remove their insignia just before they wade in flaking the heads off people with batons.

Iwasfrozen

FTA69 wrote: »

Even while they're on active duty, as in during the Reclaim the Streets march a few years ago? I'll defer to your knowledge on that front, even though I do consider it odd a few of them remove their insignia just before they wade in flaking the heads off people with batons.

I don't know anything about the Reclaim the Streets protest but they probably removed their badges to prevent the media form identifying them. If it's legal to do that then there really isn't a problem.

Turner

Peaceful protest and all that :rolleyes:

thethedev

If I generalise for a minute.

The greeks are the ****ing morons causing trouble isn't going to help their situation.

Now I'll stop generalising because its probably not even the tiniest minority of greeks.

WHat I hate about this whole situation;

It just looks to me like theres a huge amount of people with their own agenda just using this time to use peoples (justified) anger to get themselves some PR and some power.
In greece they have the anarchists, the socialists, the communists etc etc all causing unholy ****e for the country and it doesnt help.

The Gaurds aren't our enemy right now either, if it wasnt for them we'd probably be in a lot more **** right now.

Fianna Fail are the bastards.

And one more point.

I always thought there might be some truth in what indymedia writes. Can see now that its all a load of bull****. Its like the socialist propaganda site.

FTA69

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I don't know anything about the Reclaim the Streets protest.

It was around five years ago and was the subject of a bit of a debate, one guard was seen indiscriminately battering everyone around him with his baton and was nicknamed "Robocop" (probably became a celebrated figure within the cops, knowing them).

but they probably removed their badges to prevent the media form identifying them. If it's legal to do that then there really isn't a problem

So you think there "isn't a problem" if Guards remove their insignia before they use excessive force just in case they get nabbed using excessive force? Again an odd conclusion, the "legal fallacy" in debate springs to mind.

Just to clarify though, are Guards supposed to display their district numbers while on active duty? As I said, I'll defer to someone's superior knowledge.

Mr. SS

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

So nothing to do with him being a right wing nutter with SS in his username?

Well don't you make the fine couple....

Never judge a book by its cover. Last time I checked right wing nutters lived for civil unrest. SS are my initials.

I would like to see it for reasons outlined by dev here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055911944

Scofflaw

FTA69 wrote: »

It was around five years ago and was the subject of a bit of a debate, one guard was seen indiscriminately battering everyone around him with his baton and was nicknamed "Robocop" (probably became a celebrated figure within the cops, knowing them).

Reclaim the Streets was a completely different ball-game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELrPCKf-Ok4

That the Gardai have been out of order on one occasion doesn't mean that they were automatically out of order on another. What eirigi were up to here was a ruck with the Gardai (it's as plain on that video as one could possibly wish for), with the Gardai exercising a good deal of restraint in the face of provocation, and, frankly, if they'd been up against Robocop (the big blue guy there) I doubt there'd be a protest this Tuesday at all.

regards,
Scofflaw

Turner

They are supposed to display their district numbers on their shoulders. Its not "illegal" for them not too.

Reason Gardai showed up at the Reclaim The Streets protests years ago without numbers is that they came from off duty (many on lunch or breaks) and rushed to help their colleagues on Dame street.

God you didnt need to see small district numbers on their shoulders to identify them that day..... there was cameras everywhere.

Alot has been learned since then including the setting up and training of the Public Order Unit.

taytothief

fuppin armchair revolutionaries. just ssshhhhh

Mr. SS

FTA69 wrote: »

It was around five years ago and was the subject of a bit of a debate, one guard was seen indiscriminately battering everyone around him with his baton and was nicknamed "Robocop" (probably became a celebrated figure within the cops, knowing them)

Oh yeah cause the Gardaí are just such a brutally oppresive force. I'd say we have the most out of line Civic Guard in the world... oh no wait a minute...

Denerick

thethedev wrote: »

If I generalise for a minute.

The greeks are the ****ing morons causing trouble isn't going to help their situation.

Now I'll stop generalising because its probably not even the tiniest minority of greeks.

WHat I hate about this whole situation;

It just looks to me like theres a huge amount of people with their own agenda just using this time to use peoples (justified) anger to get themselves some PR and some power.
In greece they have the anarchists, the socialists, the communists etc etc all causing unholy ****e for the country and it doesnt help.

The Gaurds aren't our enemy right now either, if it wasnt for them we'd probably be in a lot more **** right now.

Fianna Fail are the bastards.

And one more point.

I always thought there might be some truth in what indymedia writes. Can see now that its all a load of bull****. Its like the socialist propaganda site.

Exactly. Every unrepresentative anti capitalist and anarchist out there waits for domestic disturbance like a growing tumour. They are exactly the same kind of idiots who go on riot holidays every time a G summit is called.

Merch

given that this state was founded on a violent struggle for independence (one the government seems to applaud by its 1916 commemorations) it seems hypocritical to attack people here for wanting to march on the Dail, when the so called leaders of the current govt and oppositions are so far removed and the people so disenfranchised, why is this not obvious to the people complaining about the rabble? the "rabble" that held the GPO didnt have popular support either, the govt are in bed with the bankers and so many people were happy to go along with it, but that does not mean many were not left behind or fell into the cracks, the gap between the rich and the poor widened, so you can have a new car and an overpriced house but that isnt any kind of longterm wealth.
Need a thousand people storming that gate! wake up people, and an end to politics as a career, we need proper business people in there, 5 year term and get out not career politicians looking after themselves and their mates

Scofflaw

Merch wrote: »

given that this state was founded on a violent struggle for independence (one the government seems to applaud by its 1916 commemorations) it seems hypocritical to attack people here for wanting to march on the Dail, when the so called leaders of the current govt and oppositions are so far removed and the people so disenfranchised, why is this not obvious to the people complaining about the rabble? the "rabble" that held the GPO didnt have popular support either, the govt are in bed with the bankers and so many people were happy to go along with it, but that does not mean many were not left behind or fell into the cracks, the gap between the rich and the poor widened, so you can have a new car and an overpriced house but that isnt any kind of longterm wealth.
Need a thousand people storming that gate! wake up people, and an end to politics as a career, we need proper business people in there, 5 year term and get out not career politicians looking after themselves and their mates

Of course! Because violent revolution gave us our present government, which is such a good...wait...no, alright, I'm confused now.

amused,
Scofflaw

Denerick

Merch wrote: »

given that this state was founded on a violent struggle for independence (one the government seems to applaud by its 1916 commemorations) it seems hypocritical to attack people here for wanting to march on the Dail, when the so called leaders of the current govt and oppositions are so far removed and the people so disenfranchised, why is this not obvious to the people complaining about the rabble? the "rabble" that held the GPO didnt have popular support either, the govt are in bed with the bankers and so many people were happy to go along with it, but that does not mean many were not left behind or fell into the cracks, the gap between the rich and the poor widened, so you can have a new car and an overpriced house but that isnt any kind of longterm wealth.
Need a thousand people storming that gate! wake up people, and an end to politics as a career, we need proper business people in there, 5 year term and get out not career politicians looking after themselves and their mates

Thats such rubbish. The French state was founded on extraordinary violence and a wholescale genocide of the landed classes. And your point is...

Scofflaw

Also, perhaps someone can tell me what the protesters would do if they successfully got into Leinster House? Rearrange the furniture? Go to the bar? Or is it just a case of young lads trying to shove themselves into something, and having little idea what they'd do if they succeeded*?

curiously,
Scofflaw

*sexual innuendo entirely intentional

Denerick

Scofflaw wrote: »

Also, perhaps someone can tell me what the protesters would do if they successfully got into Leinster House? Rearrange the furniture? Go to the bar? Or is it just a case of young lads trying to shove themselves into something, and having little idea what they'd do if they succeeded*?

curiously,
Scofflaw

*sexual innuendo entirely intentional

I'm sure they expected Brian Cowen to say, "Come on in lads! Who wants to throw the first headbut then?"

Merch

Denerick wrote: »

Thats such rubbish. The French state was founded on extraordinary violence and a wholescale genocide of the landed classes. And your point is...

I'm pointing out that its hypocritical to criticise these people for attempting to do what they did if you also support the state,

Would you have had the French peasants eat cake or us even? or have a revolution that reformed an antiquated system where institutions and systems were formed that exists to the current republic? to be honest referring to the French revolution is out of context because in that time, extreme violence was the only option available. I'm saying it's good to see people are getting angry about things and not that violence is the only option, people should vote these twats out but at least someone is doing more than grumbling and muttering under their breath. The thing is, nations have really never had much problem about inflicting violence on their own people.
Its hypocritical and idiotic to say these people deserve to have their heads cracked open as some people seem to suggest and then in the same breath accuse them of only being able to make their point violently.

I don't support a violent option. This Government can only stay detached and ignore people for so long.

FTA69

Chief--- wrote: »

Reason Gardai showed up at the Reclaim The Streets protests years ago without numbers is that they came from off duty (many on lunch or breaks) and rushed to help their colleagues on Dame street.

Oh they were at lunch and that's why they took off their numbers? That's fair enough, I'd probably need a hearty meal in me before I took to the streets, assaulting people looks like hard work.

Merch

that makes it sound like they almost all go at once to lunch, so is that a good time to do stuff lol or do they not have any plan to rotate breaks? I mean if everyone is thinking, I'm on the beat and I'll stop for a sandwich at 1.
probably do given what I seen in some petrol stations.

Denerick

Merch wrote: »

I'm pointing out that its hypocritical to criticise these people for attempting to do what they did if you also support the state,

Would you have had the French peasants eat cake or us even? or have a revolution that reformed an antiquated system where institutions and systems were formed that exists to the current republic? to be honest referring to the French revolution is out of context because in that time, extreme violence was the only option available. I'm saying it's good to see people are getting angry about things and not that violence is the only option, people should vote these twats out but at least someone is doing more than grumbling and muttering under their breath. The thing is, nations have really never had much problem about inflicting violence on their own people.
Its hypocritical and idiotic to say these people deserve to have their heads cracked open as some people seem to suggest and then in the same breath accuse them of only being able to make their point violently.

I don't support a violent option. This Government can only stay detached and ignore people for so long.

What??? Thats not even remotely logical. "Well, I think since one time we killed lots of people for independence then its stupid to complain when people use violence whenever the hell they want". You're making one of the most ludicrous points I've ever seen on the politics forum, and I've seen a lot of them.

MagicSean

Merch wrote: »

I'm pointing out that its hypocritical to criticise these people for attempting to do what they did if you also support the state,

Would you have had the French peasants eat cake or us even? or have a revolution that reformed an antiquated system where institutions and systems were formed that exists to the current republic? to be honest referring to the French revolution is out of context because in that time, extreme violence was the only option available. I'm saying it's good to see people are getting angry about things and not that violence is the only option, people should vote these twats out but at least someone is doing more than grumbling and muttering under their breath. The thing is, nations have really never had much problem about inflicting violence on their own people.
Its hypocritical and idiotic to say these people deserve to have their heads cracked open as some people seem to suggest and then in the same breath accuse them of only being able to make their point violently.

I don't support a violent option. This Government can only stay detached and ignore people for so long.

I think you are slightly exaggerating the situation. I haven't had the Tans around to my door lately. In 1916 people were violently opressed. In France people were starving to death on the streets. Today people have to give up the booze and fags and sky sports. Hardly the same situation is it?

Chief--- wrote: »

Oh they were at lunch and that's why they took off their numbers? That's fair enough, I'd probably need a hearty meal in me before I took to the streets, assaulting people looks like hard work.

Merch wrote: »

that makes it sound like they almost all go at once to lunch, so is that a good time to do stuff lol or do they not have any plan to rotate breaks? I mean if everyone is thinking, I'm on the beat and I'll stop for a sandwich at 1.
probably do given what I seen in some petrol stations.

Gardaí are only issued with one or two set of shoulder numbers for all their equipment so they wear them on the outside clothing, usually the high vis and jacket. When they are on their break they take all this stuff off. And gardaí all work the same shift so their breaks tend to occur over the same two hour period or so. If you watch the videos you will see that the first responders all had their numbers on.

Scofflaw

Would you have had the French peasants eat cake or us even? or have a revolution that reformed an antiquated system where institutions and systems were formed that exists to the current republic? to be honest referring to the French revolution is out of context because in that time, extreme violence was the only option available. I'm saying it's good to see people are getting angry about things and not that violence is the only option, people should vote these twats out but at least someone is doing more than grumbling and muttering under their breath. The thing is, nations have really never had much problem about inflicting violence on their own people.

The current protests are more a case of "let us eat cake!", though.

cordially,
Scofflaw

DeVore

Comparing this "riot" (hahahah) to the Reclaim the Streets debacle or indeed amazingly the 1916 rising is insulting to those events and exposes you to humiliation for stupidity.

DeV.

Lockstep

Scofflaw wrote: »

Also, perhaps someone can tell me what the protesters would do if they successfully got into Leinster House? Rearrange the furniture? Go to the bar? Or is it just a case of young lads trying to shove themselves into something, and having little idea what they'd do if they succeeded*?

curiously,
Scofflaw

From my experience with the above groups, I'd honestly say it is the latter.

DeVore

Perhaps they'd try to hump it's wheel, like a dog that finally caught a car....


DeV.

zenno

and as for the bankers.

banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. the bankers own the earth. take it away from them but leave them the power to create deposits, and with a flick of a pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. however, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear. and they ought to disappear. for this would be a happier and better world to live in. but if you wish to remain the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits.

the government are the puppets of the bankers.

sir josiah stamp.

OhNoYouDidn't

Scofflaw wrote: »

Also, perhaps someone can tell me what the protesters would do if they successfully got into Leinster House? Rearrange the furniture? Go to the bar? Or is it just a case of young lads trying to shove themselves into something, and having little idea what they'd do if they succeeded*?

curiously,
Scofflaw

They would have sat in and occupied it for a bit.

The smug 'how dare people get angry because schools and hospitals are being hit to bail out FF chums' line is tedious. You don't like Trots, fine. But spare us the patronising guff that people aren't allowed to vent their anger.

OhNoYouDidn't

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I don't know anything about the Reclaim the Streets protest but they probably removed their badges to prevent the media form identifying them. If it's legal to do that then there really isn't a problem.

Seriously?

DeVore

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

They would have sat in and occupied it for a bit.

The smug 'how dare people get angry because schools and hospitals are being hit to bail out FF chums' line is tedious. You don't like Trots, fine. But spare us the patronising guff that people aren't allowed to vent their anger.

They would have sat in and occupied it and then.....



.... somehow majically, what?




Or is that the goal in itself, to have a sit in?

DeV

Scofflaw

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

They would have sat in and occupied it for a bit.

The smug 'how dare people get angry because schools and hospitals are being hit to bail out FF chums' line is tedious. You don't like Trots, fine. But spare us the patronising guff that people aren't allowed to vent their anger.

I don't mind if you get angry - but while many people are angry, only a few people with limited imaginations and poor impulse control think that going and hitting things (and people) is some kind of solution. Anger isn't a substitute for thought, or even a good emotional framework to do your thinking in.

Seriously, so far it's been a case of "break in to Leinster House"...and then..."sit in Leinster House"...and then...then what? What's your program for reform? How are you going about gathering mass popular support for your program of reform? How does "occupying" Leinster House advance your program for reform?

The point has been made elsewhere that actions like trying to break into Leinster House can play right into the hands of the international money markets and the finance boys - have you anything useful and achievable to set against the fact that your actions will most probably be manipulated for gain by the very people who profited from the situation you're protesting?

regards,
Scofflaw