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British Army

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    I just wanted it made clear that Paddy was a nickname.

    Yes, I think that with a readership made up of 99.9% Irishmen we get your point. Very few people are actually christened 'Paddy'.

    Hey, what do you do for fun? Pour boiling mercury in your eyes?

    tac


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,041 ✭✭✭who the fug


    tac foley wrote: »
    Yes, I think that with a readership made up of 99.9% Irishmen we get your point. Very few people are actually christened 'Paddy'.

    Hey, what do you do for fun? Pour boiling mercury in your eyes?

    tac

    Have you seen the price of mercury?


  • Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭rockagusroll


    siblers wrote: »
    Out of interest to the guys who have gone for fitness tests etc, what was the usual time between applying for the fitness test and then doing it? Also when doing interviews and the various tests, did ye have to behave like ye were actually in the army with using "sir" etc, I wouldn't have a clue how to behave durign fitness tests etc.

    After your first interview/BARB test, you'll be given a medical questionnaire form to get filled out by your doctor. Once that is cleared on both sides (can take anywhere from a week to a couple months for some) and your fitness is up to scratch, you'll be given a date to attend pre adsc. Pass that and its onto the full ADSC. My recruiter told me to call him by his first name and just behave well and be respectable for the interviews and other times you're in the recruitment office. At the pre adsc/adsc you've to behave more ''army'' like and call them by their rank or if you're not sure then ''sir''.
    Have you started your application?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,354 ✭✭✭✭siblers


    After your first interview/BARB test, you'll be given a medical questionnaire form to get filled out by your doctor. Once that is cleared on both sides (can take anywhere from a week to a couple months for some) and your fitness is up to scratch, you'll be given a date to attend pre adsc. Pass that and its onto the full ADSC. My recruiter told me to call him by his first name and just behave well and be respectable for the interviews and other times you're in the recruitment office. At the pre adsc/adsc you've to behave more ''army'' like and call them by their rank or if you're not sure then ''sir''.
    Have you started your application?

    I was gonna sign up but then I unexpectedly got an offer to go to college in UCC, so now I'm not really sure what to do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 38 Kinza


    If you have an offer for college theres no harm in giving it a try siblers. If it doesn't work out you can always try and join up then. Or if you stick out the 3-4 years and get the degree there will always be the chance to head to Sandhurst when you finish or still go down the enlisted route. I'm just basing this on the fact your probably around 18 if your heading to college? I could be wrong.

    This is just my opinion because going to college was one of the best things I ever did and Im glad I got the degree, I wanted to enlist in the Irish army when I finished school but my parents convinced me to get the degree and if I still wanted to give it a try afterwards I was still young enough. I just got unlucky and finished college when the recruitment freeze came in so now my only way in is to get a cadetship seeing as I'm too old for enlistment now. I tried this year but I didn't get to the interview so I'l be trying again next year.

    Its up to yourself but if your still young enough then both options are still there.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,354 ✭✭✭✭siblers


    Kinza wrote: »
    If you have an offer for college theres no harm in giving it a try siblers. If it doesn't work out you can always try and join up then. Or if you stick out the 3-4 years and get the degree there will always be the chance to head to Sandhurst when you finish or still go down the enlisted route. I'm just basing this on the fact your probably around 18 if your heading to college? I could be wrong.

    This is just my opinion because going to college was one of the best things I ever did and Im glad I got the degree, I wanted to enlist in the Irish army when I finished school but my parents convinced me to get the degree and if I still wanted to give it a try afterwards I was still young enough. I just got unlucky and finished college when the recruitment freeze came in so now my only way in is to get a cadetship seeing as I'm too old for enlistment now. I tried this year but I didn't get to the interview so I'l be trying again next year.

    Its up to yourself but if your still young enough then both options are still there.

    Sound advice, I'm currently 24 but a lot fitter and mature now compared to me when I was like 18/19, I guess because the BA recruits up to the age 31 (I think) for infantry then I still have time, it's just I could end up enlisting but wouldn't be shipped to Afghanistan as it would be too late. As daft as that may sound. My course is only 2 years anyways so I can always do one year and then maybe see how things are in May and consider signing up then.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    I did my BARB test and job skills test and now have to get a medical form signed by my doctor.

    I was also told that i'd need to get a letter or certificate from the Gardai stating i've no convictions etc. Is this something i can get from my local Garda station or is it something i'll need to apply for?


  • Registered Users Posts: 34 groundshaker


    Go down your local Garda station, or if you know any Guards personally, get them to fill it in. Shouldn't be an issue

    Sorry, your recruiter should have given you a specific form to be filled in as regards convictions. I think it's the character reference form, but am not sure, memory isn't particulary good


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    He did have me sign a form that allowed for a background check by scotland yard i think, but he said i needed to get one myself from the gards as well.

    If i can get it from my local garda station though that shouldn't be a problem anyway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    Tried google to find info and came across this about a police certificate-

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/law_enforcement/police_certificate.html

    Perhaps its this i need.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 34 groundshaker


    Maybe that could be it. Anyway I never had to get any form like that, what careers office are you applying to anyway?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    Portadown. I was just up there for my BARB and job skills test a couple of days ago.


  • Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭Silent Runner


    How long did your application process take? How long do you think it will take for your clearence to go through?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭SamuelFox


    Don't try and join the British Army - if you are not promotable to major by age thirty, you ain't. And YOU don't go looking for promotion - you ARE promoted. Sure, you can turn it down, but it's not something that you apply for.

    As an officer in the BA, the usual turn of events goes like this -

    ..................................................
    ..................................................
    ..................................................

    Mind you, a chat to one of the real experts in the nearest ACIO might show that all that is total garbage. I did all this a loooong time ago - the hard way, by being a ranker first.

    tac
    At 24 before trying for Sandhurst you would already be too old and at least two years behind the drag curve by comparison with your peers. You seem to have missed entirely that there are things that you have to do and experiences that you have to go through to earn that promotion. It doesn't appear in the morning cornflakes. The only 'time and promotion' is your birthday date - if you haven't been promoted - for whatever reason - you are no longer of any use to us. Remember that you are there to serve, not to be served.

    Please feel free to check - something that I have already advised.

    In any case, the BA takes a decidedly dim view of anybody joining in the fun and games late just to be a Captain for a couple of years and then b*gger off. In their view [and mine, since I was in a position of writing Annual Confidential Reports on officers], you'd be taking up valuable space for somebody who DID want to progress.

    My input into this thread has now ended.

    Just to comment on tac Foleys post if I may – this stuff was probably spot on a few years ago but the Army has changed a lot in the last number of years and some of your info is slightly off now.

    Firstly the age thing – the average age at RMAS is now 23-25. OCdts tend to spend longer in college and also do a gap year so elderly cadets are more common. The AToS that you may have been familiar with have been changed to LToS (based on length of service from commissioning and including any seniority given for service in the ranks or University education). This means that getting a majority by 30 is no longer the norm, although it’s still very common. 31-32 is probably more like it with 38-40 for half colonel. The appointment examples you gave are a bit off – depending on how good you are perceived to be there are a lot more appointments available at Capt rank (specialist platoon and regimental level appointments, or staff posts in brigades) and you can generally expect to hold 3 appointments in that rank.

    Also, most Majors will only get one command appointment, the rest being desk jobs, and not all Lt Cols will get a regimental command as there is again just not enough to go around!

    In terms of junior officer development the practice of sending all young officers to teeth arm units is no longer the practice, except for the Int Corps. (I didn’t actually realise it was the practice in the past either!) All other officers do special to arm training straight after RMAS and then take a troop in their own Corps. Obviously too only Infantry officers do PCD which is now in Brecon. It was probably still in Warminster in your time. If non teeth officers wish to do the course they can volunteer, but AFAIK the All arms course was scrapped. The pace of operations mean now that even though infantry skills are badly needed in CS and CSS units the time isn’t there to let guys away. Similarly with the number of courses done as Lt – in practice once your unit is warned for Ops only the most vital ones are done, you are too busy to do the non – essential ones. However it won’t stop the Adjt or 2 i/c catching you for some pointless activities!

    In terms of length of service a lot of guys are leaving before reaching Major – lots find that the pace of Ops is too heavy to have a life at all. If you have a missus or sprogs they won’t enjoy the lifestyle as it stands. There is no shame in doing 5/6 years and heading off, lots do it. In fairness the system is designed for that – no serious military wants a huge rump of unpromotable majors.

    The best advice is to talk to Col West in Belfast. Good guy, contact details are on the net somewhere. If you want to ask general questions ask them on ARRSE. It’s full of people who are up to date on stuff and if someone makes a mistake there are plenty other posters to set you right. Thankfully free of armchair republicans too!
    the largest infantry regiment of all is the Royal Irish Regiment, with many native-Irish officers.
    Not any more I’m afraid – with the disbandment of the Home Service Battalions and the creation through mergers of the large regiments R IRISH is now the smallest infantry regiment. Still plenty Irish there from both North and South though!


  • Registered Users Posts: 8 eannamor


    Hey guys, tac might be able to help me with this as he was a ranker to begin with but any knowledgeable input is desired... I am 22 will soon be an NCO in the irish reserves. Am I too old to be an enlisted infantryman in the RIR? And to make a career of it? From what tac has said about the commissioned side of the army it seems very cut throat, and understandably so. Are the enlisted ranks similar? I can only hope that some of my military experience will make me more capable and so a safer investment for the BA, hence making up for my age?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    eannamor wrote: »
    Hey guys, tac might be able to help me with this as he was a ranker to begin with but any knowledgeable input is desired... I am 22 will soon be an NCO in the irish reserves. Am I too old to be an enlisted infantryman in the RIR? And to make a career of it? From what tac has said about the commissioned side of the army it seems very cut throat, and understandably so. Are the enlisted ranks similar? I can only hope that some of my military experience will make me more capable and so a safer investment for the BA, hence making up for my age?

    Sir - you are not too old to apply to join the British Army and the RIR is a great choice for any Irishman to make, although there are a good few there who have never been near Ireland before!

    The maximum engagement as an OR - Other Rank - 22 years, but of course you do not need to 'sign on' for that as a recruit. The Army Careers Information Office up the way will tell you all about that, and will happlily send you a pack-up of what is needed as far as YOU are concerned, to be attended to prior to your initial interview.

    Commissioning from the ranks is getting more common these days - after all, it happened to me, and although I was a Warrant Officer 1st Class at the time, I had been promoted from WO2 for only ten days when I was commissioned.

    May I wish you, and any others thinking of taking this giant step, the very best of luck. It will not be easy, that I can promise, and the basic training is pretty hard much of the time, the rest of the time it is plain near impossible. The end-result, however, is as much down to you as it is to those who train you.

    tac


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭RMD


    Tac out of curiosity which life do you prefer? That of an officer or a soldier, hardest choice going through my head right now, would be great to hear from someone who's experienced both.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭OS119


    RMD wrote: »
    Tac out of curiosity which life do you prefer? That of an officer or a soldier, hardest choice going through my head right now, would be great to hear from someone who's experienced both.

    i'm not Tac, and i only got to L/Cpl - but i prefer being an Officer - in my view it's (and i know people have different perspectives on this) more challenging because its more varied - and the challenge/difficulty thing is why i wanted a commission in the first place.

    thats not to suggest that non-commissioned service is easy or boring - but i personally get satisfaction from the variation in my duties, the more bizaarely differing the better, as well as the responsibility of command. its exciting, frightening, exhilerating, daunting and humbling all at the same time - and having to exercise that responsibility through the many different mediums of Army life is what i find so rewarding.

    others, of course, just think i'm a control freak...:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭effluent


    Just to point out I am not in the military but am joining.

    The thing I think about the soldier vs officer career path is the social aspects and career direction. You can't really be "one of the lads", its like being in University without the social life, constantly pushed to do work and hardcore training, being responsible for peoples lives, a lot of people can't handle it. If you go the enlisted route you could work your way up to a Sergeant, of which will probably get a lot more respect than a Lieutenant although they might outrank them. You could also be destined for paper/office work later on in the officer career.

    I could go the officer route but I'm going the enlisted route as I've never been all caught up with being an officer but more a soldier, I know officers do soldiering but the two paths are very different. I'm not in this for the long haul more for a stint in the military, and going for the experience more so than the money/career-progression.

    This is just my opinion on it...

    Edit: Oh forgot to mention the whole pay and living conditions, not to mention the better survival rate with going the officer route


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭RMD


    Ye the points you've made are basically the biggest pros / cons going through my head. Pay and living conditions isn't really in my agenda, as long as I have a bed and food I'm happy to be honest.

    I like the idea of Officer because as OS pointed out it's more challenging, varied and the responsibility of command is there. While on the other hand it doesn't offer the same level of soldiering / "craic with the lads" aspect. I could be wrong here though. What I've seen people mention before as well is the "I could have been an officer" mentality of a soldier who ends up not liking OR life, that's the last thing I'd want to feel after going through all the training.

    OS, what's life like the in the Officers Mess? I know when you described it before it sound kind of formal and over the top, but what's day to day life like in there and how do people generally get on, close and friendly or just see each other as colleagues?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Magnum


    Best of luck to everyone whatever path you choooooooose


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭OS119


    RMD wrote: »

    ...OS, what's life like the in the Officers Mess? I know when you described it before it sound kind of formal and over the top, but what's day to day life like in there and how do people generally get on, close and friendly or just see each other as colleagues?

    its what you make it - if you choose an arm/corps/regiment that has a mess culture (HCav, Infantry etc...) then you will take part in that culture, it will be the foundation of your day-to-day life, and how you make friends and participate in that culture will play a big part in how employable you are within the regiment. other regiments/corps/arms will have a slightly different attitude - and of course it changes with rank: as a Lt you will take part, as a living out Captain or Major you will be a bit more detatched.

    some messes are a marginally more grown up version of a very expensive drinking club at St Andrews university, some are little more than a travel inn.

    as for the opportunity for 'real soldiering' - don't worry about that, i promise you that it won't be a problem...


  • Registered Users Posts: 34 groundshaker


    In response to eannamor. 22 is certainly not to young to join the BA. there are reguarly recruits around 25 and 26, I even know two who are 30 and are in training now. Don't just tie yourself down to joing the RIR, the Irish Guards are a great regiment aswell. Heading to Afgan in 2013 aswell. Plenty of southern micks in it aswell


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭Raging_Ninja


    effluent wrote: »
    Edit: Oh forgot to mention the whole pay and living conditions, not to mention the better survival rate with going the officer route

    Officers suffer a higher casualty rate in battle (at least in the more junior rates, such as platoon leaders and company commanders) since they have to lead, exposing themselves to danger. Check out the casualty rates in high-intensity conflicts like WW2, Korea, Vietnam etc.

    Edit: The following is from a study on US military casualties in Iraq between 2003 and 2006:
    In the Army, enlisted men have 40% higher mortality than officers; in the Marines, the differential is 36%. The excess mortality of enlisted men is diminished by the high mortality of the lowest-ranking officers, Lieutenants, who are typically the leaders of combat patrols. Army Lieutenants have the highest mortality of any rank in the Army, 19% higher mortality than all Army troops combined. Marine Lieutenants have 11% higher mortality than all Marines. But the single highest mortality group in any service consists of Lance Corporals in the Marines, whose death risk is 3.3 times that of all troops in Iraq


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    A quarter of the British army / administration in India about 100 / 120 years ago was Irish. We have a proud history.


  • Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭A.Tomas


    gigino wrote: »
    A quarter of the British army / administration in India about 100 / 120 years ago was Irish. .


    We have a shameful history. Good thing only a few now join up. There will be more prison spaces available, they won't draw the dole and of course they seem to keep it a secret.:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    A.Tomas wrote: »
    We have a shameful history. Good thing only a few now join up. There will be more prison spaces available, they won't draw the dole and of course they seem to keep it a secret.:D

    Ya we'll probably need the prison spaces for your republican buddies instead.


  • Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭A.Tomas


    Ya we'll probably need the prison spaces for your republican buddies instead.


    Ooooh a bit touchy.

    Sure, live in you're deluded world where everyone in Ireland who dislikes the British army is a terrorist, but I'm sure if you proudly display you're one of her majesty's finest most people would have probably preferred if you were in the RIRA. LOL


  • Registered Users Posts: 281 ✭✭delta-boy


    Ignorant comments from the poster above me obviously no nothing of what the British Armed Forces is today and that the armchair republicans and their fellows alike are a dying breed.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    A.Tomas wrote: »
    Ooooh a bit touchy.

    Sure, live in you're deluded world where everyone in Ireland who dislikes the British army is a terrorist, but I'm sure if you proudly display you're one of her majesty's finest most people would have probably preferred if you were in the RIRA. LOL

    I think its deluded you cliam to speak for most people in the above.

    Far to much suffering has been caused in Ireland over the assumption their views are shared by most people.

    I have met many a British Soldier proud of their service. Can you say that about any current RIRA members?


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