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British Army

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭RMD


    Anyone here an Officer in the BA?

    After college I think I might do it, always something I've wanted to do and it's a once in a life time experience, suppose a second question is anyone here serving in the Royal Irish? What's it like as a regiment, it's involvement in the 16th air assault brigade really attracts me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    RMD wrote: »
    Anyone here an Officer in the BA? After college I think I might do it, always something I've wanted to do and it's a once in a life time experience, suppose a second question is anyone here serving in the Royal Irish? What's it like as a regiment, it's involvement in the 16th air assault brigade really attracts me.

    Dear Mr RMD - I was an officer in the BA, but I was also every other rank from Private to Warrant Officer 1st Class as well, in a career that spanned just about thirty-three years of full-time service.

    As for what the Royal Irish Regiment is like - please read -

    The Royal Irish Regiment is the last remaining Irish infantry regiment of the line. The 1st Battalion is based in Tern Hill, Shropshire and forms part of 16 Air Assault Brigade. The 2nd Battalion is a Territorial Army battalion and its headquarters is in Portadown, Northern Ireland with company locations across the province. 1 Royal Irish Battlegroup returned in October 2008 from their second tour in Helmand Province, Afghanistan - and are due to re-deploy to Helmand Province in 2010.

    The Royal Irish Regiment has wide ranging career opportunities for those who seek excitement and responsibility. If you are a fit young man and relish a challenge, travel and adventure as a Ranger in the 1st Battalion give the Battalion Recruiting Team a call on 02890 420 306 to start the ball rolling. If your interest is in a career as a commissioned officer in the Regiment e-mail the Regimental Secretary at [email protected].

    And

    The 1st Battalion are the regular Battalion, and the 2nd Bn The Royal Irish Regiment are (what were the Royal Irish Rangers) the reserve Battalion.

    1 R IRISH are within 16 Air Assault Brigade, the UK's vanguard warfighting Brigade, along side The Parachute Regiment. They are part of the Quick Response Force that can be deployed anywhere in the world at short notice. Since 2003, 1 and 2 R IRISH have seen fully fledged warfare in Iraq, and most recently, Helmand Province in Afghanistan.

    2 R IRISH is 1 R IRISH's reserve in their Air Assault role. 2 R IRISH as a reserve Battalion has a wealth of experience within it's ranks, combining the trades and counter terrorism skills learnt from 38 years of civil unrest in Northern Ireland from the ex-R IRISH(HS), and the RANGERS troops who have large experience of worldwide deployments and warfare, including Northern Ireland, Kosovo, Sierra Leone, Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Both Battalions of The Royal Irish Regiment continue to serve with distinction, carrying on the tradition of the Fighting Irish, and showing why Irish soldiers serving with the British Army are regarded some of the toughest and most feared in the world.

    Be aware that if you think that the competition for commissioning into the PDF is pretty fierce, you ain't seen nuthin'. Sandhurst will make or break you.

    Good luck.

    tac

    PS - You might care to begin your military career by correctly capitalising the titles of military units - such as 16 Air Assault Brigade.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭RMD


    Thanks for the info Tac. Quick question, what exactly does it mean by 2 R Irish being 1 R Irish's reserves. Does it mean that the Air Assault jobs are prioritised to 1 R Irish and that 2 are more "ground" based?

    The competition for being in the PDF has made no bearing on my choice of joinging the BA. The Irish army doesn't appeal to me and Sandhurst as you've essentially put is an incredible challenge, and such a challenge attracts me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭OS119


    RMD wrote: »
    Thanks for the info Tac. Quick question, what exactly does it mean by 2 R Irish being 1 R Irish's reserves. Does it mean that the Air Assault jobs are prioritised to 1 R Irish and that 2 are more "ground" based?...

    no, he means that 1RIR are the full time soldiers, and 2RIR are members of the TA.

    1RIR is part of 16AAB, but it is not an Airborne unit - some members of the Bn will have undergone P Coy, and the intention is to increase that number within a formed part of the Bn, but 1RIR isn't about to become 5PARA.

    16AAB needed a 'round out' Bn due to the loss of 1PARA to the SFSG, 1RIR got the job because they are 'spare' within the Army's new arms plot, and because they have a reputation as a good, 'solid' battalion. 2RIR provide both individuals to 1RIR for operational tours, and as formed sub-units (sections, platoons, companies... etc).

    good Bn, but there are lots of other good Bn's, and lots other, non-infantry, careers within the Army.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭RMD


    OS119 wrote: »
    no, he means that 1RIR are the full time soldiers, and 2RIR are members of the TA.

    1RIR is part of 16AAB, but it is not an Airborne unit - some members of the Bn will have undergone P Coy, and the intention is to increase that number within a formed part of the Bn, but 1RIR isn't about to become 5PARA.

    16AAB needed a 'round out' Bn due to the loss of 1PARA to the SFSG, 1RIR got the job because they are 'spare' within the Army's new arms plot, and because they have a reputation as a good, 'solid' battalion. 2RIR provide both individuals to 1RIR for operational tours, and as formed sub-units (sections, platoons, companies... etc).

    good Bn, but there are lots of other good Bn's, and lots other, non-infantry, careers within the Army.

    Thanks for the info. Ye I think I have a reasonable idea of the RIR role in the AAB, I could be completely wrong but is it they basically go out the back of Chinooks instead of out the back of an airplane like the Paras? (Don't mean this in anyway insulting or demeaning, just a "summary")

    I've looked in other areas of the army, other than Infantry the only other area that really appeals to me is Ammunition Technician to be honest (Royal Logistic Corps) or Army Air Corps Officer (Pilot). I probably sound like some ignorant teen who's chosen his wanted careers from CoD, but these are the only areas of the army that appeal to me.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    RMD wrote: »
    Thanks for the info. Ye I think I have a reasonable idea of the RIR role in the AAB, I could be completely wrong but is it they basically go out the back of Chinooks instead of out the back of an airplane like the Paras? (Don't mean this in anyway insulting or demeaning, just a "summary")

    I've looked in other areas of the army, other than Infantry the only other area that really appeals to me is Ammunition Technician to be honest (Royal Logistic Corps) or Army Air Corps Officer (Pilot). I probably sound like some ignorant teen who's chosen his wanted careers from CoD, but these are the only areas of the army that appeal to me.

    Dear Mr RMD - The 'summary' is fine. ;=)

    ATO in the Really Large Corps, like any other technical MOS, usually requires a degree in an associated subject before going to Sandhurst and competing with all the others who would like to do the same thing. Even a first in 'media studies' or 'social history' is unlikely to impress the selection board. A chat to a real live ATO would be a good plan.

    AAC officer/pilot is just about the fiercest-fought over job in military aviation, bearing in mind that both sexes do the job - there are no female ATO's.

    As I noted before - loads of luck there.

    tac


  • Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭00MARTZ00


    hi folks
    i could be wrong here (and i hope for RMD's sake i am) but i thought that a citizen of the republic of ireland couldn't become a pilot in the british armed forces?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    00MARTZ00 wrote: »
    hi folks
    i could be wrong here (and i hope for RMD's sake i am) but i thought that a citizen of the republic of ireland couldn't become a pilot in the british armed forces?

    That is quite true, but we don't know that Mr RMD actually IS a citizen of the RoI - he may well be from the north of the country, and is still, or course, an Irishman.

    tac


  • Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭00MARTZ00


    very gud point tac! i guess its true what they say about assumptions!
    actually a quick question for you tac if you have the time. Is it possible to go the officer route in sandhurst if you have a degree but not a leaving cert?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    00MARTZ00 wrote: »
    very gud point tac! i guess its true what they say about assumptions!
    actually a quick question for you tac if you have the time. Is it possible to go the officer route in sandhurst if you have a degree but not a leaving cert?

    Good question - glad you thought about it. I'm not familiar with Irish leaving certificates, but I'm also not sure how you can have a degree without having qualified for going to uni by having leaving certificates...perhaps someboy can put me straight on that. I left school a loooooong time ago, with nine O levels and six A levels, three of which were languages, and also included maths and physics. From my experience of YO's you are at a decided disadvantage trying for Sandhurst without a degree - best in an area with at least some level of association with your future employment.

    As I noted earlier a real '-ology' beats the living bejabers out of a degree in newt-strangling or botany if you want to be an officer in a technical part of the BA.

    Whatever it is you have, the younger you are when you get to Sandhurst the better it will be.

    If you are not getting the recommendations for promotion to major by the your late '20's you are well on your way to being an ex-member of the BA. We don't keep captains who, for some reason, are unpromotable to the next rank - it really a fact that the best man WILL win, no question about it.

    tac


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  • Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭00MARTZ00


    well i never did my leaving cert because i left school to become an electrician but now i've been accepted for college (becuase of the trade) to do electrical engineering. so while not having a leaving cert i will (hopefully) have a degree.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 96 ✭✭axiom


    are Irish citizens eligable to join REME ?

    eying up Electronics/ Avionics Technician ....

    if you went for it, how likely would it be that you would get it ? I have a cert and Ordinary degree in electronics, which i presume is what they train you to ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    Well I'll be graduating college in two years at 23. I may then go on and do a one year Masters in International Peace Studies or Conflict Resolution and Reconciliation or possibly International Politics. That would mean leaving college at 24 to start training, so no way I'd be looking at promotion to Major before my mid thirties, most likely. So, what happens in that case?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 314 ✭✭JackieRyan


    Cheers for that Jackie, glad to hear he's doing well. I've my adsc next week so hopefully I'll be joining him soon enough!

    Also does he come back to visit much?

    Sorry for the late reply,he has being home about 6 times ,and it is always great to see him


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Well I'll be graduating college in two years at 23. I may then go on and do a one year Masters in International Peace Studies or Conflict Resolution and Reconciliation or possibly International Politics. That would mean leaving college at 24 to start training, so no way I'd be looking at promotion to Major before my mid thirties, most likely. So, what happens in that case?

    Don't try and join the British Army - if you are not promotable to major by age thirty, you ain't. And YOU don't go looking for promotion - you ARE promoted. Sure, you can turn it down, but it's not something that you apply for.

    As an officer in the BA, the usual turn of events goes like this -

    University 18 - 21.

    RMA Sandhurst 21 - 22 or so.

    Pass out as 2nd Lt - then eighteen months/two years detachment as an infanty platoon commander or another teeth arm [whatever else you might be in finally] you WILL in any case do the Junior Officer's All Arms Infantry course to prepare you for it, and then likely go to A'stan. There, you'll get the chance to show EVERYBODY what you are really worth - if you don't, you leave. This is where the competition is fiercest among those who stay in - the others become ex-es, or, in Army parlance, was-beens. Your service can be terminated 'by mutual agreement' which means that you have been fired, or simply by joining in the fun for a short time [three years or so] so that you can have the cachet of saying that you WERE an officer in the BA. Many of the 'hooray-Henry' brigade go this route to impress the gels, or to get a better job as a civvie. Personally I've never seen the point of wanting to become an an officer in the BA unless your heart is fully in it - certainly I've been in the same room as a few total plonkers whom you wouldn't have commissioned to paint a chicken coop, but they are rare these days.

    23-24 - promotion to Lt + lots of courses.

    26-27 - promotion to Captain + Junior Division Staff College + lots of courses. Infantrymen/gunners/armoured corps are 2/ic company/battery/squadron.

    30 - promotion to Major - more courses, of course. Infantymen/gunners/armoured corps are regiment 2i/cs

    35 - 36 - Staff College and promotion to Lt Col. REAL regimental-level command takes place here - a Lt Col might command a Regiment.

    40-ish - promotion to Colonel - usually staff jobs at this level plus brigade deputy commanders.

    Late-40's promotion to Brigadier...and then it begins to get really interesting.....brigade commanders - like 16 AAB.

    So, to reinforce my comment - the good'uns will have been Captains for two years before you have even finished Sandhurst as a Second Lieutenant about to do your first eighteen month i/c platoon commander in the infantry. TBH, the only reason you'd have to go to Sandhurst at age 24+ would be to be to lecture the YO's on their Officer's Course.

    Mind you, a chat to one of the real experts in the nearest ACIO might show that all that is total garbage. I did all this a loooong time ago - the hard way, by being a ranker first.

    tac


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭RMD


    00MARTZ00 wrote: »
    hi folks
    i could be wrong here (and i hope for RMD's sake i am) but i thought that a citizen of the republic of ireland couldn't become a pilot in the british armed forces?

    I remember seeing that years ago somewhere, but when I went looking for it there the other day I couldn't find a confirmation of it so I just mentioned. Ah well, being from the Republic that rules out Pilot as possible path.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,309 ✭✭✭✭siblers


    Yeah a guy I worked with wanted to become a pilot in the RAF but was turned down because he hadn't a British passport.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    tac foley wrote: »
    Don't try and join the British Army - if you are not promotable to major by age thirty, you ain't. And YOU don't go looking for promotion - you ARE promoted. Sure, you can turn it down, but it's not something that you apply for.

    As an officer in the BA, the usual turn of events goes like this -

    University 18 - 21.

    RMA Sandhurst 21 - 22 or so.

    Pass out as 2nd Lt - then eighteen months/two years detachment as an infanty platoon commander or another teeth arm [whatever else you might be in finally] you WILL in any case do the Junior Officer's All Arms Infantry course to prepare you for it, and then likely go to A'stan. There, you'll get the chance to show EVERYBODY what you are really worth - if you don't, you leave. This is where the competition is fiercest among those who stay in - the others become ex-es, or, in Army parlance, was-beens. Your service can be terminated 'by mutual agreement' which means that you have been fired, or simply by joining in the fun for a short time [three years or so] so that you can have the cachet of saying that you WERE an officer in the BA. Many of the 'hooray-Henry' brigade go this route to impress the gels, or to get a better job as a civvie. Personally I've never seen the point of wanting to become an an officer in the BA unless your heart is fully in it - certainly I've been in the same room as a few total plonkers whom you wouldn't have commissioned to paint a chicken coop, but they are rare these days.

    23-24 - promotion to Lt + lots of courses.

    26-27 - promotion to Captain + Junior Division Staff College + lots of courses. Infantrymen/gunners/armoured corps are 2/ic company/battery/squadron.

    30 - promotion to Major - more courses, of course. Infantymen/gunners/armoured corps are regiment 2i/cs

    35 - 36 - Staff College and promotion to Lt Col. REAL regimental-level command takes place here - a Lt Col might command a Regiment.

    40-ish - promotion to Colonel - usually staff jobs at this level plus brigade deputy commanders.

    Late-40's promotion to Brigadier...and then it begins to get really interesting.....brigade commanders - like 16 AAB.

    So, to reinforce my comment - the good'uns will have been Captains for two years before you have even finished Sandhurst as a Second Lieutenant about to do your first eighteen month i/c platoon commander in the infantry. TBH, the only reason you'd have to go to Sandhurst at age 24+ would be to be to lecture the YO's on their Officer's Course.

    Mind you, a chat to one of the real experts in the nearest ACIO might show that all that is total garbage. I did all this a loooong time ago - the hard way, by being a ranker first.

    tac

    Please re-read what I said. I did not mention going looking for promotion. I said looking at promotion. By that I mean the chances of starting training at 23 or 24 and being promoted to Major by 30 were non-existent. Now, Captain would be a possibility, but it's still not a certainty. Bearing in mind that I'd be leaving college the same age as any other typical graduate who does a four year course in Ireland, going by your timescale, you'd wonder how anyone who does such a thing ever gets by at all. Since an extra year, taking me to 24 would leave me with a Master's degree, rather than a Bachelor's, surely it would be a cunning career move, particularly in the above fields, and become exponentially more valuable as I progressed through the career.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭elius


    Please re-read what I said. I did not mention going looking for promotion. I said looking at promotion. By that I mean the chances of starting training at 23 or 24 and being promoted to Major by 30 were non-existent. Now, Captain would be a possibility, but it's still not a certainty. Bearing in mind that I'd be leaving college the same age as any other typical graduate who does a four year course in Ireland, going by your timescale, you'd wonder how anyone who does such a thing ever gets by at all. Since an extra year, taking me to 24 would leave me with a Master's degree, rather than a Bachelor's, surely it would be a cunning career move, particularly in the above fields, and become exponentially more valuable as I progressed through the career.

    A friend of my fathers son in law is a major in the royal marine's and i think he became so at 28. Think one of the youngest ever ill find full fact tomorrow...


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    elius wrote: »
    A friend of my fathers son in law is a major in the royal marine's and i think he became so at 28. Think one of the youngest ever ill find full fact tomorrow...

    Oh, I'm sure it's possible. However, going from civilian at 23 to Major by 30 is something of a leap.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Please re-read what I said. I did not mention going looking for promotion. I said looking at promotion. By that I mean the chances of starting training at 23 or 24 and being promoted to Major by 30 were non-existent. Now, Captain would be a possibility, but it's still not a certainty. Bearing in mind that I'd be leaving college the same age as any other typical graduate who does a four year course in Ireland, going by your timescale, you'd wonder how anyone who does such a thing ever gets by at all. Since an extra year, taking me to 24 would leave me with a Master's degree, rather than a Bachelor's, surely it would be a cunning career move, particularly in the above fields, and become exponentially more valuable as I progressed through the career.

    Sir - you've missed my point, Masters or not.

    At 24 before trying for Sandhurst you would already be too old and at least two years behind the drag curve by comparison with your peers. You seem to have missed entirely that there are things that you have to do and experiences that you have to go through to earn that promotion. It doesn't appear in the morning cornflakes. The only 'time and promotion' is your birthday date - if you haven't been promoted - for whatever reason - you are no longer of any use to us. Remember that you are there to serve, not to be served.

    Please feel free to check - something that I have already advised.

    In any case, the BA takes a decidedly dim view of anybody joining in the fun and games late just to be a Captain for a couple of years and then b*gger off. In their view [and mine, since I was in a position of writing Annual Confidential Reports on officers], you'd be taking up valuable space for somebody who DID want to progress.

    My input into this thread has now ended.

    tac


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    siblers wrote: »
    Yeah a guy I worked with wanted to become a pilot in the RAF but was turned down because he hadn't a British passport.
    thats strange, the red arrows[RAF] have pilots from canada,china, columbia,and new zealand and all are in active service in iraq


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,309 ✭✭✭✭siblers


    getz wrote: »
    thats strange, the red arrows[RAF] have pilots from canada,china, columbia,and new zealand and all are in active service in iraq

    Yeah, maybe it's to do with whether you are currently a pilot or not when trying to join the RAF? He was pretty gutted he wasn't able to join.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    tac foley wrote: »
    Sir - you've missed my point, Masters or not.

    At 24 before trying for Sandhurst you would already be too old and at least two years behind the drag curve by comparison with your peers. You seem to have missed entirely that there are things that you have to do and experiences that you have to go through to earn that promotion. It doesn't appear in the morning cornflakes. The only 'time and promotion' is your birthday date - if you haven't been promoted - for whatever reason - you are no longer of any use to us. Remember that you are there to serve, not to be served.

    Please feel free to check - something that I have already advised.

    In any case, the BA takes a decidedly dim view of anybody joining in the fun and games late just to be a Captain for a couple of years and then b*gger off. In their view [and mine, since I was in a position of writing Annual Confidential Reports on officers], you'd be taking up valuable space for somebody who DID want to progress.

    My input into this thread has now ended.

    tac

    I didn't say I intended to do this for a few years for the laugh. It's to be a proper career.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    siblers wrote: »
    Yeah, maybe it's to do with whether you are currently a pilot or not when trying to join the RAF? He was pretty gutted he wasn't able to join.
    did he think of joining the royal navy ?they have own aircraft on the aircraft carriers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭PatsytheNazi


    getz wrote: »
    did he think of joining the royal navy ?they have own aircraft on the aircraft carriers.
    I suppose if he was in the navy he'd stand a better chance of not having an RAF pilot accidently drop a bomb on him than if he was in the Brit army ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 539 ✭✭✭piby


    tac foley wrote: »
    At 24 before trying for Sandhurst you would already be too old and at least two years behind the drag curve by comparison with your peers.

    I respect that you spent years in the BA so I'm not about to disagree with you as such. But I occasionally peruse http://arrse.co.uk and there's plenty of threads there on the Officers forum from guys are 24/25+ and thinking about, or undegoing the process, to become officers and the general consensus from the members there is that it's not too much of an issue with it. They do have to face up to the reality that if they're joining at that latter stage then they're unlikely to make a long-term career out of it or become a general but I certainly wouldn't be the following opinion:
    tac foley wrote: »
    Don't try and join the British Army
    tac foley wrote: »
    TBH, the only reason you'd have to go to Sandhurst at age 24+ would be to be to lecture the YO's on their Officer's Course.

    I read about a officer who was KIA recently in A'stan (RIP) and he was 29 as an Lt. comissioned at 28 having spent most of his mid-20's in the City so it's not uncommon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    piby wrote: »
    I respect that you spent years in the BA so I'm not about to disagree with you as such. But I occasionally peruse http://arrse.co.uk and there's plenty of threads there on the Officers forum from guys are 24/25+ and thinking about, or undegoing the process, to become officers and the general consensus from the members there is that it's not too much of an issue with it. They do have to face up to the reality that if they're joining at that latter stage then they're unlikely to make a long-term career out of it or become a general but I certainly wouldn't be the following opinion:

    I read about a officer who was KIA recently in A'stan (RIP) and he was 29 as an Lt. comissioned at 28 having spent most of his mid-20's in the City so it's not uncommon.

    Please re-read - My input into this thread has now ended.

    tac


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 539 ✭✭✭piby


    tac foley wrote: »
    Please re-read - My input into this thread has now ended.

    tac

    With all due respect I have and I very much understand what you were saying about promotion to Major and whatnot. I was, however, taking a slight issue with you telling that poster that he would be too old to join up at 24 when that is simply not the case. The age limit is 28 (must have entered Sandhurst before 29th birthday) and I don't think that they would have that number arbitrarily. If they wanted them to be solely limnited to younger candidates then they would set the age limit lower would they not? The PDF's limit is set at 25 for example. Perhaps you meant that he shouldn't join at 24/25 expecting to make a long career out of it, as I ackowledged in my previous post, but I know of plenty of officers who comissioned later than 22/23 and had a decent couple of years in it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭RMD


    I suppose if he was in the navy he'd stand a better chance of not having an RAF pilot accidently drop a bomb on him than if he was in the Brit army ?

    I'm probably going to get in trouble for this, who knows maybe even banned.

    But would you ever just **** off and stay away from any topic about the BA unless you've something helpful to post? Every topic I see even relating to the BA in the slightest way you post in just to make snide remarks about the BA and in every case I've seen, it's been of no help to anyone.

    Yes, we get it, your anti-BA, well done, now please piss off unless you're going to post something helpful.


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