Dublin Bus Network Review

end of the road

BenShermin wrote: »

Are Dublin Bus ever going to acknowledge that this cross city corridor simply isn't working??

no, because doing so would be admitting that their most prided routes of network destruct (sorry network direct) are a shambles. network destruct (sorry network direct) was always about and is about cuts, it just happens to be the case that some of the changes have worked for people and made things easier for them, at least those people are happy which is a good thing.

CIE

phasers wrote: »

If anything it should be the opposite of that. Thomas St and James' St have several buses serving them, and Neilstown, Balgaddy and Rowlagh have one

The popularity dictates the routing. If there's a strong demand for service between Thomas Street/James Street and Ballyfermot/points west of there, then that's the way the buses are going to go. The old route 78/A/B went that way for decades, as did their descendants.

Frankly, I don't see why the 26 never became a primary route serving Neilstown, even in the past; it should have operated that way even before it was considered to operate the 51 in that direction (so we wouldn't really have needed a 51B)...nowadays would be a good time to rectify that.

And if the 13 were to be split off from the current southside routing to/from Clondalkin again, the bus numbers should be 51/51A instead of having 51B/51C come back.

thomasj

CIE wrote: »

phasers wrote: »

If anything it should be the opposite of that. Thomas St and James' St have several buses serving them, and Neilstown, Balgaddy and Rowlagh have one

The popularity dictates the routing. If there's a strong demand for service between Thomas Street/James Street and Ballyfermot/points west of there, then that's the way the buses are going to go. The old route 78/A/B went that way for decades, as did their descendants.

Frankly, I don't see why the 26 never became a primary route serving Neilstown, even in the past; it should have operated that way even before it was considered to operate the 51 in that direction (so we wouldn't really have needed a 51B)...nowadays would be a good time to rectify that.

And if the 13 were to be split off from the current southside routing to/from Clondalkin again, the bus numbers should be 51/51A instead of having 51B/51C come back.

Could the 39/a format be followed in this case

Ie in the case of ballyfermot/finglas, 40 running the old 40 route northside and the old 78 route southside with a 40a route covering the current 40 route northside to lets say merrion square with a 78 running the current southside leg to as far as parnell square.

Benefits would be a more direct cross-city route, shortened journey times and as a result if the shortened lengths of existing routes and possibly improved reliability

dublinman1990

I couldn't get on the 16 bus at any point between O'Connell Street and Drumcondra due to the Statio Orbis Mass taking place yesterday in Croker.

Two 16's that I was waiting on were completely full. I thought, there is absolutely no chance of getting a seat.

There were about over a dozen passengers at Stop No. 278 waiting for a bus for about 20 minutes even attempting to get on a 13 or a 16 even. But still no luck.....However at last, the 44 bus from Enniskerry came up within 10 minutes.

The bus was nearly empty and there were plenty of seats on it. The crowd took the seats on the lower deck.

Even when I left Croker yesterday evening. I attempted to get a bus into town. No luck there either, including that was a 16 to Ballinteer that was full right up to the door.

What is DB going to do about the 16 bus at all? There are very serious capacity issues on that route IMHO. I would say that the drivers on it are having a torrid time where they struggle for most of it when doing shift work.

Just to ease the situation; are the management in anyway going to adjust the timetable or even put bigger buses on it?

dfx-

Must've been serious issues with the 16 yesterday. I was on VT2 on Westmoreland St and there was 32 people waiting for the 16 that was due behind with their luggage..at 5pm

On O'Connell St at 5.30pm southbound, 43 people got on board a southbound 16 which was crammed to standing upstairs.

What turned up to service these stops on either occasion? An ex-Airlink AV with their reduced seating capacity and their lack of power. AV124 on the first occasion and AV122 for the latter.

AlekSmart

dfx- wrote: »

Must've been serious issues with the 16 yesterday. I was on VT2 on Westmoreland St and there was 32 people waiting for the 16 that was due behind with their luggage..at 5pm

On O'Connell St at 5.30pm southbound, 43 people got on board a southbound 16 which was crammed to standing upstairs.

What turned up to service these stops on either occasion? An ex-Airlink AV with their reduced seating capacity and their lack of power. AV124 on the first occasion and AV122 for the latter.

Hardly surprising dfx.

When the NEW ! IMPROVED ! (and VERY expensive) Croke Park opened for business,the GAA and it's "affiliates" (Partners in grime) issued a glossy brochure extollling the virtues of Public Transport in accessing the venue.

Most of this flyer consisted of nonsense,led by the declaration that a Traffic Management Plan is in force for major events. (The reality of this plan is centred on Gardai facilitating the smooth operation of the Clonliffe College PAID CAR PARKING accessed through the single gate and laneway onto Drumcondra Road)

The reality for the reat of us is that for many many years now,major events at Croke Park have essentially severed all Public Bus connections between North Dublin/Dublin Airport and the remainder of the City.

THAT is the reality.

It appears however,that in the interests of presenting a "common front" to the public,all of the various bodies corporate involved are prepared to do an Admiral Nelson on it...(Blind Eye).

The Eucharistic Congress is but the latest in a long line of big-ticket events in Croke Park.

Each event,of whatever discipline,will have involved substantial planning and preparation with official and legal notifications given several months in advance.

Yet,Dublin Bus,An Garda Siochana, Dublicn City Council and whatever other agencies can be found continually operate as if Croke Park's owners had just suddenly decided to open their gates on the day.

The entire thing is a cack-handed disgrace and well worth the resignations (dismissals) of several high profile members of the "Usual Suspects" gang.

One thing I can absolutely assure posters is that NO Busdrivers opinions,suggestions or criticisms have ever been or will ever be sought in drawing up any form of REAL "Traffic Management Plan" for the venue.

BE VERY SURE ON ONE INEVITABLE ELEMENT OF THIS LONG RUNNING INCOMPETENCE-A SERIOUS PUBLIC SAFETY INCIDENT IS GOING TO OCCUR IN AND AROUND DRUMCONDRA RAILWAY STATION. :mad:

CIE

AlekSmart wrote: »

When the NEW, IMPROVED (and VERY expensive) Croke Park opened for business,the GAA and it's "affiliates" (Partners in grime) issued a glossy brochure extollling the virtues of Public Transport in accessing the venue.

Most of this flyer consisted of nonsense, led by the declaration that a Traffic Management Plan is in force for major events. (The reality of this plan is centred on Gardai facilitating the smooth operation of the Clonliffe College PAID CAR PARKING accessed through the single gate and laneway onto Drumcondra Road.)

The reality for the rest of us is that for many many years now, major events at Croke Park have essentially severed all Public Bus connections between North Dublin/Dublin Airport and the remainder of the City.

THAT is the reality.

It appears however,that in the interests of presenting a "common front" to the public, all of the various bodies corporate involved are prepared to do an Admiral Nelson on it...(Blind Eye).

The Eucharistic Congress is but the latest in a long line of big-ticket events in Croke Park.

Each event, of whatever discipline, will have involved substantial planning and preparation with official and legal notifications given several months in advance.

Yet Dublin Bus, An Garda Siochana, Dublicn City Council and whatever other agencies can be found continually operate as if Croke Park's owners had just suddenly decided to open their gates on the day.

The entire thing is a cack-handed disgrace and well worth the resignations (dismissals) of several high profile members of the "Usual Suspects" gang.

One thing I can absolutely assure posters is that NO Bus drivers' opinions, suggestions or criticisms have ever been or will ever be sought in drawing up any form of REAL "Traffic Management Plan" for the venue.

BE VERY SURE ON ONE INEVITABLE ELEMENT OF THIS LONG RUNNING INCOMPETENCE—A SERIOUS PUBLIC SAFETY INCIDENT IS GOING TO OCCUR IN AND AROUND DRUMCONDRA RAILWAY STATION. :mad:

Hmm. Used to be that public transport to/from Croke Park was better in the past. Route 23 terminated right at Croke Park, no matter if it were open or not. Now (AFAICS) there isn't even a bus that serves Clonliffe Road, with the withdrawal of route 51A three years ago. There's certainly no railway station right next to to Croke Park (as noted, and as could be made possible) and Drumcondra Station is not only underserved but too far away from the actual venue.

And of course, the prediction that only a "serious public safety incident" will motivate the politicians to act is due to come to pass...with the politicians taking the wrong measures, I strongly suspect. Which is an indication that the politicians have suddenly accrued too much power for themselves, most likely with the aid of their "buddies" in Brussels.

Dub13

CIE wrote: »

There's certainly no railway station right next to to Croke Park (as noted, and as could be made possible) and Drumcondra Station is not only underserved but too far away from the actual venue.

Come on now,Drumcondra Station is less than 5 min walk to Croke Park.

noelfirl

It's also suitable to have a station that serves a stadium a reasonable distance away from the stadium for crowd control reasons. Drumcondra would be perfect if was a busier multi-service interchange (e.g. with Metro North and DART) and a wide-ish footbridge could be worked in to allow crowds to cross the road safely going to/from the stadium

CIE

Dub13 wrote: »

Come on now, Drumcondra Station is less than 5 min walk to Croke Park.

...and Lansdowne Road station is zero minutes walk from Aviva Stadium, just like the bus stop for the former bus route 23 used to be zero minutes walk from Croke Park. Feeding passengers right into an adjacent railway station or bus stop keeps roads open and increases safety. The concept of special-purpose railway stations is not a new one.

noelfirl wrote: »

It's also suitable to have a station that serves a stadium a reasonable distance away from the stadium for crowd control reasons

No, that increases crowd control problems by ejecting the crowds onto the city streets. I can only speak for myself, but I would not be tolerant of crowds that just left a stadium walking by my house and making a racket (or possibly doing something "antisocial")—I suspect that I am not alone in this view, however.

AlekSmart

I came across Edinburgh's ongoing Bus Service change procedure today....

http://lothianbuses.com/news/2-general-news/1101-changes-to-your-buses-from-24-june-2012.html

One VERY interesting differentiation in Corporate Think between Lothian Buses and Dublin Bus is contained in their Route 47 changes.....just read the note :rolleyes:

noelfirl

CIE wrote: »

No, that increases crowd control problems by ejecting the crowds onto the city streets. I can only speak for myself, but I would not be tolerant of crowds that just left a stadium walking by my house and making a racket (or possibly doing something "antisocial")—I suspect that I am not alone in this view, however.

Short of an enormous wide platformed station, the chances for overloading of a station directly adjacent to or in Croke Park are far more likely then the same for ejecting a crowd onto the surrounding streets and allowing them to spread to nearby transport interchanges. You mention Lansdowne, extensive crowd control is required there to spread the load approaching the station after the end of matches. Modern stadium builds more often then not leave a space between the arena and the transport interchange because it is easier for large crowd management.

Dub13

CIE wrote: »

...and Lansdowne Road station is zero minutes walk from Aviva Stadium, just like the bus stop for the former bus route 23 used to be zero minutes walk from Croke Park. Feeding passengers right into an adjacent railway station or bus stop keeps roads open and increases safety. The concept of special-purpose railway stations is not a new one.No, that increases crowd control problems by ejecting the crowds onto the city streets. I can only speak for myself, but I would not be tolerant of crowds that just left a stadium walking by my house and making a racket (or possibly doing something "antisocial")—I suspect that I am not alone in this view, however.

I have been to the new Wembley and I can tell you the tube station is a good bit away from the ground,much further than Drumcondra Station.There is no money in the country so lets stop all this talk of special-purpose railway stations for a venue thats only full a handful of times a year.Its just not going to happen.

cleveland browne

AlekSmart wrote: »

I came across Edinburgh's ongoing Bus Service change procedure today....

http://lothianbuses.com/news/2-general-news/1101-changes-to-your-buses-from-24-june-2012.html

One VERY interesting differentiation in Corporate Think between Lothian Buses and Dublin Bus is contained in their Route 47 changes.....just read the note :rolleyes:

That's not the way Dublin Bus management work, listening to customers what next listening to staff.

CIE

Dub13 wrote: »

I have been to the new Wembley and I can tell you the tube station is a good bit away from the ground, much further than Drumcondra Station.There is no money in the country so lets stop all this talk of special-purpose railway stations for a venue thats only full a handful of times a year.Its just not going to happen.

There's plenty of money in the country. Germany didn't grab it all. And you can't expect the government to fork out every bit of infrastructure funding, after all, even if it means better crowd control.

As for Wembley, that was extremely poor planning. Dublin should look towards the west, at places like Citi Field or Yankee Stadium in NYC.

Conway635

To be fair, no one is asking that we retrofit a station at Croke Park.

What we are asking is why, when we were spending millions on redeveloping the stadium, we didn't include the building of a station in the project. And yes, that would have involved the stadium owners and IE reaching out and talking to each other, but that is what good planning is all about.

Likewise, I can't understand how we managed to build one of the biggest retail developments on this island in Dundrum without a single dedicated coach-parking space, or any real provision for attracting public transport.

C635

Cookie_Monster

^
Why Lansdowne station wasn't moved and a third rail & platform added under the stadium as part of that redevelopment is beyond me too...

however I fear we're moving OT rather a lot

stop

Route 86 showing up at earlsfort terrace outbound on rtpi (online) this evening. Odd.

CIE

stop wrote: »

Route 86 showing up at earlsfort terrace outbound on rtpi (online) this evening. Odd.

Haxxorz? If not, then it might be possible to get a bus ride from the city centre to Upper Kilmacud Road for the first time since the early 2000s. (Too bad it's not all the way to Bray...)

Cookie_Monster

stop wrote: »

Route 86 showing up at earlsfort terrace outbound on rtpi (online) this evening. Odd.

I remember getting that home once as an experiment. Ealsfort right to Churchview Rd, I though couldn't be too bad, a bit slower maybe. Over 2 hours later I finally got home and never set foot on it again...

CIE

Too bad they're cutting so many bus services to Bray, as though the only viable way to get there was on the DART or via the N11 corridor. I would have thought a re-routed 86 going via Sandyford, Stepaside, Kilternan and Rathmichael (Ballycorus Road) to Shankill and Bray would have some potential...

Stl150

Got the below from dublin bus in relation to the changes to 75 and 175.


Many thanks for your e-mail and please accept my apologies for the significant delay in responding to your original e-mail.  Further to your query about the implementation of Route 175, Dublin Bus has postponed the implementation of Route 175 for the foreseeable future. The decision was made due to the delayed upturn in the economy which has significantly altered passenger demand for that particular route alignment combined with a decrease in government subvention.

Dublin Bus does hope to eventually introduce Route 175 in the future, but unfortunately we are unable to confirm an exact date because, due to the above mentioned factors, it will not happen in 2012. Concerning reference to Route 175 on the Dublin Bus website, Dublin Bus is in the process of updating its website to reflect the current situation regarding Route 175. Once an implementation date has been set for Route 175, customers will be notified via newspaper advertisement, Dublin Bus’ website and social media accounts and leaflet drop.

dublinman1990

Well at least they did respond to you probably for once regarding routes 75 and 175.

And the answer is that it won't implemented until next year?

I have to say that is hugely disappointing that these buses won't be changed. Is the current demand for the 75 at a low point or something?

Stl150

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Well at least they did respond to you probably for once regarding routes 75 and 175.

And the answer is that it won't implemented until next year?

I have to say that is hugely disappointing that these buses won't be changed. Is the current demand for the 75 at a low point or something?

Demand is low due to routing. Would pick up with a direct route to dundrum. The 175 would have been a great service but upper knocklyon needs a link with dundrum. Sending the 61 down the old scholarstown road and back up the new scholarstown road could solve it

Will not happen tho

Aard

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Is the current demand for the 75 at a low point or something?

I don't know about the peak, but off-peak it's little used. Only ever about 25 people on it In fact the other day they had a single decker on, and it was just about full by Dundrum (ex Tallaght). It's really all they need on these low/mid-ridership but still-pretty-useful services.

thomasj

thomasj wrote: »

thomasj wrote: »

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

While it is a wee bit off topic, I would have thought that the data displayed on these RTPI signs was dynamically generated on-the-fly from a central database.

If so, any updates should take effect instantly. As an IT person, I know that most devices or applications that glean criteria from databases have fast refresh rates. This is crucial in keeping up to date with even the most minute changes in database criteria.

If not, is this lack of efficiency further evidence of bureaucracy between state-owned organizations?:eek:

Don't get me wrong. Most of the time, the RTPI signs are reliable.:D

I just arrived at my bus stop in clonsilla and checked the official DB app rtpi to find that the next bus due is the "239 to ballyknockan via tallaght village". Where the hell is ballyknockan?

Actually the whole database seems to be screwed up tonight. If you search for stop 794on Suffolk street you get a good laugh!

145 Marlborough street via seabury

39a ballyfermot via clondalkin

46a airport via seabury

70 abbey St via rush

14 city centre via drumcondra

38 ballycullen rd via city centre

15 grange castle via city centre

140 abbey St via Dublin airport

11 cherrywood via blackrock

This issue has occured again tonight.

Suffolk street, has amongst the next departures the following:

15 ballinteer via o'connell st

140 portmarnock

70 dun laoghaire via stillorgan

39 liffey valley via city centre

140 palmerston road

14 ballycullen road via city centre

Edit: actually do you notice that they are showing the destination of the next route down, for example for blanchardstown sc its showing route 37 to damastown (route 38)

BenShermin

79 this evening was going to Mountjoy Square via Donnybrook. The on-street display were showing the correct routing though.

Are Ulster Bank running the RTPI on Saturday nights

A2000

More and more northbound 40's are only operating to parnell sq only. Im waiting in ballyfermot to go to harts corner and the next 2 are to city only so i can wait 30 mins or walk from town. Or get another bus and pay again.

dfx-

Anyone know about the short 68s returning late from Newcastle?

I'd have imagined (and nearly sure I saw since the Network Changes) the 68s go the quick way to C/Rd, straight on from Tyrconnell Rd instead of turning right onto Emmet Rd. As they did before the change.

But the first RTPI on Emmet Rd reads as the 68 to C/Rd stops there. Surely not..? It'd have to go through town to get to the garage, which beats the point surely..

A2000

dfx- wrote: »

Anyone know about the short 68s returning late from Newcastle?

I'd have imagined (and nearly sure I saw since the Network Changes) the 68s go the quick way to C/Rd, straight on from Tyrconnell Rd instead of turning right onto Emmet Rd. As they did before the change.

But the first RTPI on Emmet Rd reads as the 68 to C/Rd stops there. Surely not..? It'd have to go through town to get to the garage, which beats the point surely



would it not go down to south circular rd junction and turn left down island bridge to conynham rd ?