Dublin Bus Network Review

LXFlyer

angel01 wrote: »

You say added on routes where necessary What routes would they be? If you are going to add them on some, they should be added on all.

How are they going to let their customers know of this change? when they can't even let their customers know that there is a fare increase. I have been on a fair few buses all week and saw 1 sign advertising a bus fare hike.

The services should be left as they are (imo)

Where necessary is (for example) adding an 0600 and 0630 departure (if they operate such services on weekdays) if the first Saturday service is not until 0700. Many routes already have services on Saturdays before 0700 already albeit at a lower frequency than weekdays.

Do you honestly believe that it is good business practice (given the current economic climate) to be running buses around with 5-6 people on them or less? I've yet to see a bus in the morning peak this week with double figure passenger numbers on it.

Incidentally, there have been advertisements on virtually every bus I've been on in the last week on the first window beside the door listing the new fares.

angel01

lxflyer wrote: »

Where necessary is (for example) adding an 0600 and 0630 departure (if they operate such services on weekdays) if the first Saturday service is not until 0700. Many routes already have services on Saturdays before 0700 already albeit at a lower frequency than weekdays.

Do you honestly believe that it is good business practice (given the current economic climate) to be running buses around with 5-6 people on them or less? I've yet to see a bus in the morning peak this week with double figure passenger numbers on it.

Incidentally, there have been advertisements on virtually every bus I've been on in the last week on the first window beside the door listing the new fares.

What about the business practice of those that depend on the bus to get them into work on time? Not everyone will go the whole route into town, the bus I got on this morning had double numbers but quite a few of those got off before the terminus.

On the routes I use near me, the first bus on a Saturday is 7am (way too late for me to get to work) and on Sunday, it is close to 9am (complete madness)

I must not be getting the same buses as you then :eek::D

LXFlyer

angel01 wrote: »

What about the business practice of those that depend on the bus to get them into work on time? Not everyone will go the whole route into town, the bus I got on this morning had double numbers but quite a few of those got off before the terminus.

On the routes I use near me, the first bus on a Saturday is 7am (way too late for me to get to work) and on Sunday, it is close to 9am (complete madness)

I must not be getting the same buses as you then :eek::D

I've already said - add an extra bus at 0630 (and 0600 if there is one on weekdays) on that route and the others that have a similar problem.

But you do not need the normal Monday to Friday frequency.

ArmaniJeanss

I'd agree that a weekend service (with additional 6.30am, 7am etc buses) is all thats needed this week.

Would there be an issue though that you'd be effectively forcing drivers and other staff to take their annual holidays on Wednesday/Thursday/Friday of this week?

AlekSmart

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I'd agree that a weekend service (with additional 6.30am, 7am etc buses) is all thats needed this week.

Would there be an issue though that you'd be effectively forcing drivers and other staff to take their annual holidays on Wednesday/Thursday/Friday of this week?

If there's an annual leave issue,it tends to be the opposite in most locations.

There are usually quite a lot of applications for Christmas Leave refused due to the exiegencies of service provision.

Also,oddly enough,the last major wage deal incorporasted an agreement to introduce special schedules over the Christmas period,which was to be the subject of intensive negotiations.

AFAIAA the negotiations never began.

Oddly enough,I'm seeing a substantial increase in my seasonal loadings,which is quite surprising.

I still contend that the increased costs of owning,maintaining and operating a "Little Car" are beginning to impact upon people who's disposable income is being savagely reduced.....This,I also contend,is the very time to be EXPANDING Public Bus services rather than shutting up shop and running away !!

thomasj

On a 17a a few hours ago and noticed an nbru sign posted stating that it is advising drivers to avoid beaumont hospital after 18.00 due to health and safety grounds.

Anyone know whats going on? Its worrying that a planned interchange as per network direct and theres health and safety issues.

Aard

Isn't there some winter bug going around the hospitals atm? Could just be something to do with that.

markpb

thomasj wrote: »

On a 17a a few hours ago and noticed an nbru sign posted stating that it is advising drivers to avoid beaumont hospital after 18.00 due to health and safety grounds.

You'd imagine that's the kind of notice that DB would be putting up, not the union. Very odd situation all the same, I wonder what's causing it? Anti-social behaviour in a hospital (that isn't St. James') seems unlikely.

thomasj wrote: »

Anyone know whats going on? Its worrying that a planned interchange as per network direct and theres health and safety issues.

Beaumont is a terrible location for interchange. All the northern approach roads have speed ramps, on-street parking and poor bus stops and the hospital itself has some very narrow roads where buses have to come to a complete stop to pass, very tight bends and little or no parking enforcement on the turning circle / bus stops.

AlekSmart

markpb wrote: »

You'd imagine that's the kind of notice that DB would be putting up, not the union. Very odd situation all the same, I wonder what's causing it? Anti-social behaviour in a hospital (that isn't St. James') seems unlikely.

Beaumont is a terrible location for interchange. All the northern approach roads have speed ramps, on-street parking and poor bus stops and the hospital itself has some very narrow roads where buses have to come to a complete stop to pass, very tight bends and little or no parking enforcement on the turning circle / bus stops.

For a newly designed (20th Century) green-field site Beaumont (and Tallaght) Hospital(s) are embarrasing in terms of public transport access.....what were the design teams thinking....did they envisage all the po sick folks using SUV's and 4x4's to do their hospitalizing..?

Just take a peep at the configuration of the Bus Stop/Bay outside the front gate of the Hospital on Beaumont Road...It appears to have been designed to provide the A+E with a steady stream of RTA victims...pure unadulterated negligent design and implimentation,with no fear of a comeback...Grrrr :mad:

schemingbohemia

markpb wrote: »

You'd imagine that's the kind of notice that DB would be putting up, not the union. Very odd situation all the same, I wonder what's causing it? Anti-social behaviour in a hospital (that isn't St. James') seems unlikely.



Beaumont is a terrible location for interchange. All the northern approach roads have speed ramps, on-street parking and poor bus stops and the hospital itself has some very narrow roads where buses have to come to a complete stop to pass, very tight bends and little or no parking enforcement on the turning circle / bus stops.

It's the winter vomiting bug with associated visitor restrictions. Sign shouldn't be up in the bus and if DB are diverting buses away from their route without notification they would be in breach of their contract. Drivers not working in accordance with their route should be disciplined.

markpb

schemingbohemia wrote: »

It's the winter vomiting bug with associated visitor restrictions.

Only after 6.30pm? That's a very specific bug

Shouldn't be up in the bus and if DB are diverting buses away from their route without notification they would be in breach of their contract. Drivers not working in accordance with their route should be disciplined.

Absolutely. Route changes should not be dictated by the union.

antoinolachtnai

AlekSmart wrote: »

For a newly designed (20th Century) green-field site Beaumont (and Tallaght) Hospital(s) are embarrasing in terms of public transport access.....what were the design teams thinking....did they envisage all the po sick folks using SUV's and 4x4's to do their hospitalizing..?

I have travelled to Beaumont hospital by a number of different modes. They are really all equally unpleasant. There is no road space, no pavements (last time I walked in), and no road signs. In retrospect it does seem to have been unwise to have built a major national hospital on a site with no main road.

Staff transport is a major issue for the hospitals, in particular for Beaumont. In many respects, this is actually much more essential than visitor/patient transport. Anyone who decides not to serve a hospital for the shift change at 8 pm.

If a union really were to have posted a notice as described and these were the circumstances, it would be leaving itself open to the possibility of legal action from the hospital and would be putting its negotiating licence (essential to operate as a trade union) in jeopardy.

AlekSmart

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

I have travelled to Beaumont hospital by a number of different modes. They are really all equally unpleasant. There is no road space, no pavements (last time I walked in), and no road signs. In retrospect it does seem to have been unwise to have built a major national hospital on a site with no main road.

Staff transport is a major issue for the hospitals, in particular for Beaumont. In many respects, this is actually much more essential than visitor/patient transport. Anyone who decides not to serve a hospital for the shift change at 8 pm.

If a union really were to have posted a notice as described and these were the circumstances, it would be leaving itself open to the possibility of legal action from the hospital and would be putting its negotiating licence (essential to operate as a trade union) in jeopardy.

The issue of poor infrastructure design and build implementation is an absolutely HUGE one in Ireland.

Almost every large scale project we embark upon (viz Leapcard) emerges with significant operational deficiencies,often limping along for decades in the "ah sure it'll be ok" mode.

The difference between ourselves and the rest of the developed world appears to be one of comprehension..ie understanding the basic necesseties required for common public usage and efficiency,as opposed to what requirements are specific to individuals...the two can often be totally at varience.

Many other communal entities in Europe tend to open their planning brief for a Hospital of similar structure with a think of..."Now,where will we put the Bus/Tram/Train Stop/Station".

Our usual starting point is where to put the car-park,something which usually conspires to relegate Public Transport to some far-flung remote windswept corner of whatever facility is in question.

Only after agreeing on the most efficient,feasible location do the forren planners then move on to the actual facility itself....IKEA would be another example who attempted and failed to convince the Irish Public Administrative Mafia of the good-sense of free access and egress....as the somewhat convoluted arrangements at it's Ballymun Store bear witness to.

As for the 17A issue,I suspect it's to do with anti-social,semi-criminal behaviour of the type regularly seen and addressed in Finglas,Tallaght,Coolock,Clondalkin,Blanchardstown,Ballybrack...eh,oh forget it...Dublin will do ...

Dublin Bus is regularly engaged in reactionary protective measures all over the City,usually in collaboration with then Gardai,which often involve route curtailments or even suspensions until whatever excitable elements have injected/consumed enough stuff to fall asleep or otherwise render themselves unconscious...it is,sadly a fact of life.:(

thomasj

Aard wrote: »

Isn't there some winter bug going around the hospitals atm? Could just be something to do with that.

I was thinking that myself but the 17a is still serving Connolly?

Dyr

AlekSmart wrote: »

For a newly designed (20th Century) green-field site Beaumont (and Tallaght) Hospital(s) are embarrasing in terms of public transport access.....what were the design teams thinking....did they envisage all the po sick folks using SUV's and 4x4's to do their hospitalizing..?

Just take a peep at the configuration of the Bus Stop/Bay outside the front gate of the Hospital on Beaumont Road...It appears to have been designed to provide the A+E with a steady stream of RTA victims...pure unadulterated negligent design and implimentation,with no fear of a comeback...Grrrr :mad:

When my old man was using dublin bus to visit the mother in beaumont he was left hanging around like a tool at bus stops for long periods, had buses blazing past without bothering to stop etc. Being an old school community type he raised hell with dublin bus about it and it turned out in the end that there was roster fraud going on in the garages. You can moan about our planning process all you like but the reason public transport is low down on the list of priorities for these projects is because irish people avoid public transport like the plague. And the cause for that runs from the drivers all the way up de minnister for de transport.

cozski

Hey, I've just finished penning a letter of complaint to DB which I'm intending to post over the next few days. As a regular (daily) DB passenger it's become apparent to me that that poor customer service from DB drivers is quite common and I'm becoming increasing pissed off with this. Obviously I want to have DB respond to these poor levels of customer service so can anyone give me any advice or information on how to best go about this. More specifically:

Should I write a letter for each individual incident or should I detail them all over a period of time in one letter?
What is the best approach to addressing drivers as an issue occurs or would it be best to say nothing and write directly to DB? Generally if I've ever raised any concerns with a driver I've been blatantly ignored.
Are there any public transport consumer groups that are operating in Dublin and would they provide any opportunities for having some of these concerns addressed?
Do DB ever employ mystery passengers on their services to monitor service delivery?
Is their a publicly available Code of Conduct that DB drivers are required to meet?

Thanks in advance for any advice/help/info.

Coz

dublinman1990

With all the changes with some new route numbers under ND being created, I don't think they would become high as this now would they?

[IMG][/img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/gm_076/6590434987/in/photostream

Aard

@Cozski

Like any matter demanding an element of confrontation, it is best to go to the competent authority. (Term used loosely in this case :P ) Any problems you have with drivers would best be addressed to DB itself. Bringing it up with the driver is futile (depending on the gravity of the situation of course) and likely to get into a "he said she said" loop, especially if it's a case of a difference in opinion of what's socially acceptable behaviour...

dublinman1990

There is another interesting development that comes up now. In an probable attempt of improving the communication between drivers during ND, DB have put up a tender to have the radio mast being replaced at Phibsboro/Broadstone Depot.

I wonder how long that mast had stayed there in the depot. I'd say that was it used to communicate back to HQ in O'Connell Street very regularly.

http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=DEC298115

Given that state of the bus service in Dublin is poor. Will it make any difference in the near future?

AlekSmart

Bambi wrote: »

When my old man was using dublin bus to visit the mother in beaumont he was left hanging around like a tool at bus stops for long periods, had buses blazing past without bothering to stop etc. Being an old school community type he raised hell with dublin bus about it and it turned out in the end that there was roster fraud going on in the garages. You can moan about our planning process all you like but the reason public transport is low down on the list of priorities for these projects is because irish people avoid public transport like the plague. And the cause for that runs from the drivers all the way up de minnister for de transport.

Bambi,this sounds most interesting.

Could you elaborate on the Routes concerned and the nature of "Roster Fraud".

AlekSmart

cozski wrote: »

Hey, I've just finished penning a letter of complaint to DB which I'm intending to post over the next few days. As a regular (daily) DB passenger it's become apparent to me that that poor customer service from DB drivers is quite common and I'm becoming increasing pissed off with this. Obviously I want to have DB respond to these poor levels of customer service so can anyone give me any advice or information on how to best go about this. More specifically:

Should I write a letter for each individual incident or should I detail them all over a period of time in one letter?

Whatever method best suits your mood and the individual incident

What is the best approach to addressing drivers as an issue occurs or would it be best to say nothing and write directly to DB? Generally if I've ever raised any concerns with a driver I've been blatantly ignored.

Generally Busdrivers have a fairly full workload in terms of activity,this often leaves little time for responding to individual issues or concerns,this can often be interpreted as being ignored.

Getting involved in verbal with a busdriver or other passengers will merely raise your BP to no good effect.

Write/E-Mail DB with as much information as you can muster.
If you have a ticket then scan or write down the details from it,otherwise a Fleet Number (Front Nearside corner just below the doorline) will suffice.

Are there any public transport consumer groups that are operating in Dublin and would they provide any opportunities for having some of these concerns addressed?

RailUsersIreland are as far as I can the only Public Transport lobby group of any import,try them ?

Do DB ever employ mystery passengers on their services to monitor service delivery?

Yes.

Is their a publicly available Code of Conduct that DB drivers are required to meet?

Yes,try here...http://www.dublinbus.ie/PageFiles/5910/Customer%20Charter%20-%20English%20version.pdf

Thanks in advance for any advice/help/info.

Coz

angel01

I remember being on a 38 bus recently and the driver was shouting at the passenger and they were having a screaming match on the bus. very uncomfortable situation :(

All because she didn't walk down towards where the bus had opened the doors to let passengers off on Suffolk Street and had waited at the bus stop for the bus to stop and let her on...

AlekSmart

angel01 wrote: »

I remember being on a 38 bus recently and the driver was shouting at the passenger and they were having a screaming match on the bus. very uncomfortable situation :(

All because she didn't walk down towards where the bus had opened the doors to let passengers off on Suffolk Street and had waited at the bus stop for the bus to stop and let her on...

Constant source of grief at this location now.

Lose lose situation for Drivers as folks queuing at BusStop give out yards if runners-doorway moochers get on ahead of them OR give out even more if they walk down and encounter a driver who won't open the doors in deference to pax waitin at the Stop.

Total guerrilla Busfare....:eek:

Incredible amounts of Buses (and passengers) vying for some of the most restricted kerbspace in Dublin.

Add In the City Tour presence,the Aircoach Long Dwell and now,the added presence at the Grafton Street end of legions of crazed,slavering Taxi Drivers busily converting a functioning Junction/Pedestrian Crossing into a Taxi Rank.

The latter ensures that Buses approaching the Suffolk St stop have to enter the street on the wrong (outer) lane and then pull across to the kerb at an overly acute angle,especially dangerous for wheelchair users,but at least we should be happy at facilitating the poor Taxi Man.......and then having cleared the Stop one enters heaven...in the form of Church LANE !

That's by way of operational explanation and in no way excuses a shouting-match as you describe,but again,Ive no idea what under the breath remark may well have sparked the "dispute" in the first place.

But as you say Angel01,it's at least a two :( situation,bad form.

howiya

AlekSmart wrote: »

An excellent decision Howiya,especially bearing in mind that one of the National Transport Authority's stated Objectives is to facilitate "Increased recourse to cycling and walking as means of transport."....and it's using your initiative to overcome a slight annoyance ?

Its not the walking I mind, it's the shambolic nature of the service. Nobody gets on a bus on one side of the city to get to the other side of the city with the intention of sitting at a bus stop for up to 15 minutes. If DB know the journey time will be shorter then they should have the next driver there to meet the bus.

Yesterday morning I was on the same departure of the 27 so I expected such a wait. As luck would have it we met and passed a 151 on the way. So I disembarked the 27 to board the 151. What happened? Same thing. Driver parks at Eden Quay and turns off the engine. No information given to passengers about when the bus would be moving again. One lady approached the driver and with the information he gave her she disembarked. That made my mind up.

Luckily I'll be cycling again from Tuesday

LXFlyer

howiya wrote: »

Its not the walking I mind, it's the shambolic nature of the service. Nobody gets on a bus on one side of the city to get to the other side of the city with the intention of sitting at a bus stop for up to 15 minutes. If DB know the journey time will be shorter then they should have the next driver there to meet the bus.

Yesterday morning I was on the same departure of the 27 so I expected such a wait. As luck would have it we met and passed a 151 on the way. So I disembarked the 27 to board the 151. What happened? Same thing. Driver parks at Eden Quay and turns off the engine. No information given to passengers about when the bus would be moving again. One lady approached the driver and with the information he gave her she disembarked. That made my mind up.

Luckily I'll be cycling again from Tuesday

Howiya, during the Christmas period they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

DB operated a full Monday/Friday schedule this week. That has running times and driver change times based on normal traffic conditions.

This week had nothing like normal traffic conditions, and hence buses were getting into the city 15-20 minutes earlier than they would normally be scheduled to do so - hence the waiting time for the driver change.

The only alternatives are:
1) A special timetable for this period
2) An amended Saturday service.
3) Change the whole format of the city bus timetable so that it becomes a fully timetabled service - i.e. each route would have timetabled points along the entire route that drivers would have to observe. That would mean you would pick your bus by it's scheduled arrival time at your destination rather than the departure time. It would also mean in weeks such as this that buses would be waiting all along the route.

The first option would require an immense amount of work as it would mean two different sets of rosters and timetables - given they are still trying to get the current rosters/timetables sorted out, that is frankly unlikely to happen any time soon.

Designing timetables and rosters is an immensely complex task and cannot be done overnight.

howiya

lxflyer wrote: »

Howiya, during the Christmas period they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

DB operated a full Monday/Friday schedule this week. That has running times and driver change times based on normal traffic conditions.

This week had nothing like normal traffic conditions, and hence buses were getting into the city 15-20 minutes earlier than they would normally be scheduled to do so - hence the waiting time for the driver change.

The only alternatives are:
1) A special timetable for this period
2) An amended Saturday service.
3) Change the whole format of the city bus timetable so that it becomes a fully timetabled service - i.e. each route would have timetabled points along the entire route that drivers would have to observe. That would mean you would pick your bus by it's scheduled arrival time at your destination rather than the departure time. It would also mean in weeks such as this that buses would be waiting all along the route.

The first option would require an immense amount of work as it would mean two different sets of rosters and timetables - given they are still trying to get the current rosters/timetables sorted out, that is frankly unlikely to happen any time soon.

Designing timetables and rosters is an immensely complex task and cannot be done overnight.

You make no reference to the lack of information and the company expecting passengers to wait at bus stops. Do you think this is a good service?

LXFlyer

dublinman1990 wrote: »

With all the changes with some new route numbers under ND being created, I don't think they would become high as this now would they?

[IMG][/img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/gm_076/6590434987/in/photostream

That's the Leopardstown Races service heading to Busaras after the races.

LXFlyer

howiya wrote: »

You make no reference to the lack of information and the company expecting passengers to wait at bus stops. Do you think this is a good service?

Of course drivers should inform passengers of the fact that the bus will be waiting if they arrive early as a matter of course and out of basic courtesy. That is something that DB drivers (in general) just seem incapable of doing. I specifically exclude Alek Smart from this criticism as were he driving your bus you would be in no doubt as to what was happening.

There are intermediate times on the bus stops from Hawkins Street on routes 27 and 151, which are online on the individual timetables as pdf files at the top. These are the times these routes should depart that point at. With the best will in the world in the traffic conditions prevalent last week buses were arriving up to 20 minutes earlier than normal in the early mornings.

LXFlyer

dublinman1990 wrote: »

There is another interesting development that comes up now. In an probable attempt of improving the communication between drivers during ND, DB have put up a tender to have the radio mast being replaced at Phibsboro/Broadstone Depot.

I wonder how long that mast had stayed there in the depot. I'd say that was it used to communicate back to HQ in O'Connell Street very regularly.

http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=DEC298115

Given that state of the bus service in Dublin is poor. Will it make any difference in the near future?

I'm sorry but this post is pure drivel.

Presumably the mast had reached the end of its useful life and is being replaced in the normal course of business.

There is a fully functioning radio system in all garages that allows full communication between central control and all buses.

What would it have to do with communicating between Broadstone and O'Connell Street? I suspect that they would use the telephone?

howiya

lxflyer wrote: »

Of course drivers should inform passengers of the fact that the bus will be waiting if they arrive early as a matter of course and out of basic courtesy. That is something that DB drivers (in general) just seem incapable of doing. I specifically exclude Alek Smart from this criticism as were he driving your bus you would be in no doubt as to what was happening.

There are intermediate times on the bus stops from Hawkins Street on routes 27 and 151, which are online on the individual timetables as pdf files at the top. These are the times these routes should depart that point at. With the best will in the world in the traffic conditions prevalent last week buses were arriving up to 20 minutes earlier than normal in the early mornings.

One driver out of however many providing a decent level of service leaves a lot to be desired.

You fail to see that the attraction of getting the bus this week was the fact that buses were arriving up to 20 minutes earlier than normal. For the passenger this is not neccessarily a bad thing. It was the only reason I opted for the bus to get me to work this week.

The intermediate times you have pointed me towards should in theory solve the problem. The 27 should leave Eden Quay every 10 minutes during peak time. If this was true then arriving exactly 20 minutes early would not cause a problem. You would merely disembark the bus you are on to board the one scheduled to leave.

If you arrived 18 minutes early the most you would wait would be 8 minutes and so on. Yet the only driver who had the courtesy to advise passengers on my bus this week of the wait stated that we would be waiting up to 15 minutes. Indeed when I disembarked the RTPI stated the next 27 was due in 13 minutes.

And can a bus driver not turn up early for his shift? All week my working day has varied in length whether it be at the start or end of the day