Dublin Bus Network Review

LXFlyer

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I basically never get the 38 so can't comment.

When going into town I try to only use the 38B where possible . It's very reliable though it has suffered with some road works going on in Mulhuddart village which has sent the bulk of traffic through Castlecurragh/Warrenstown causing a jam here, so it probably seems very hit and miss for the likes of Jaysoose in Warrenstown.

Coming home the odd one 38A seems to go missing completely, but no more than one a month. I'd consider it very reliable and the 'new' Blanch section doesn't add on too much at my time anyway (7PM ish).

The 38A from Damastown. Its probably reliable as such, it seems to turn up on time when I use it. It is not a good service though, as I've explained in this thread and others it can as little as 5 or 6 minutes or as much as 20+ minutes to do the 'new' Blanch section as the traffic flow, lights and road configuration is against it making speedy progress.

Personally when my only choice is a 38A on a weekday (i.e., after 8.36AM) I've got into the habit of getting a taxi from Warrenstown to the first busstop after Auburn Avenue. Around €7, then get the first 39A, 70 etc which comes along. The 38A is that bad that I can justify €7 to avoid it.

Dublin Bus have done a lot right on this route, they are close to having it perfect. Just need to scrap the one mistake.

Thank you for that very comprehensive answer.

dfx-

markpb wrote: »

......Just like using middle doors (works elsewhere but it wouldn't work in Dublin apparently)....

Some day I'll find out why it is that all these things are possible all round the world but are impossible for Dublin Bus.

Being on a fair few RVs in the past week on the 56A (long live the lowfloor 15 giving the other routes some nice RVs :cool: ) and the double doors have been used.

dublinman1990

meanmachine3 wrote: »

well said alek. the unions have fought for years to get the stages back on the stops but to no avail. for posters reading this i've been marked in on my route for a long time and and i only know about 3/4 of the stages. the rest i haven't got a clue about. if i'm in any doubt i'd rather under charge a passenger a stage or two than over change and get in to a confrontation. and if the case arises which it has once or twice where i've realised my mistake by under charging with the passenger still on board i will point it out to them when they're getting of so they'll know next time.
the amazing thing about the A.V.L. is it tell you where you are and when in the city centre where your next stop is but it doesn't tell us where the next stage is.
in this day and age there should be a system where it takes the onus off the driver e.g. a strip on the staged bus stop and when a bus passes it recognizes the bus and route and automatically updates the stages. problem solved.:D

The A.V.L. shows the driver the word ''driving'' when the bus is in motion. Most of the time when I see bus drivers going on their route, they usually look at it when they stop at a bus stop or when they stop the bus in traffic.

I do need to say that drivers need good hand-eye co-ordination while looking at the A.V.L.

LXFlyer

dublinman1990 wrote: »

The A.V.L. shows the driver the word ''driving'' when the bus is in motion. Most of the time when I see bus drivers going on their route, they usually look at it when they stop at a bus stop or when they stop the bus in traffic.

I do need to say that drivers need good hand-eye co-ordination while looking at the A.V.L.

No they don't. The only time it displays data is when the bus is stopped.

How does that require any more co-ordination than normal?

markpb

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Most of the time when I see bus drivers going on their route, they usually look at it when they stop at a bus stop or when they stop the bus in traffic.

Apart from setting the route number and destination, there's no reason (that I can think of) for a driver to look at or interact with the AVL unit. I'm not even sure why it displays any information at all except maybe to assist lost drivers?

LXFlyer

markpb wrote: »

Apart from setting the route number and destination, there's no reason (that I can think of) for a driver to look at or interact with the AVL unit. I'm not even sure why it displays any information at all except maybe to assist lost drivers?

It displays whether they are ahead/behind schedule, but ONLY when the bus is stopped. It's a different display to the one for setting the route/destination (which is in fact now done through the ticket machine).

markpb

lxflyer wrote: »

It displays whether they are ahead/behind schedule, but ONLY when the bus is stopped.

I didn't know that, thanks Seems useful but eh.... what are they meant to do if it shows that they're behind schedule?

Luckycharm

AlekSmart wrote: »

Oh come come now Luckycharm....surely you're aware that this and the equally impressive 161 terminus have ben FULLY inspected and approved by the relevant authorities,and in addition recieved final approval from the Gardai..?.....Yes ?....or perhaps it's a cunning plan to make car driving a slower and more fraught process...just as through Ranelagh Village...You just can't keep up with developments these days.....:eek:

The strange bit is that that is pulling in section on the stops further up the same road so when they pull in the buses are easy to get by but where the terminus is there isn't any even though there is room to put in a pulling in Section.

LXFlyer

markpb wrote: »

I didn't know that, thanks Seems useful but eh.... what are they meant to do if it shows that they're behind schedule?

Good question!

It is (as I understand it) for information only!

meanmachine3

dublinman1990 wrote: »

The A.V.L. shows the driver the word ''driving'' when the bus is in motion. Most of the time when I see bus drivers going on their route, they usually look at it when they stop at a bus stop or when they stop the bus in traffic.

yes but the A.V.L. gives our exact location when were stopped except the stages. if this was input in the system it'll make our job alot easier in that there wont be any disputes like paying different fares to and from the same destinations.
as for the wayfarer heres where alot of problems lie. take the main corridors stillorgan ,lucan, navan road, swords road, malahide road and howth roads. in most cases when we're on these roads and update our stages the wayfarer only gives the above roads. it doesn't say where abouts where we are. now to further complicate this. when someone gets on and asks for a fare to a certain place in between stages it gets complicated. i'm going to use the 33 route as an example out of town.

stage 75 Lwr. Abbey St. to stage 78 Drumcondra Rail Station €1.20 (1-3 stages)
stage 75 Lwr. Abbey St. to stage 82 Swords Rd. (Shanowen Rd.) €1.65 (1-7 stages)
stage 75 Lwr. Abbey St. to stage 88 Corner Collinstown Rd €1.85 (1-13 stages)
stage 75 Lwr. Abbey St. to stage 99 Hearse Rd. €2.20 (1-14+ stages)
this is what shows up on our wayfarer except in brackets .
now if someone gets on says their going to Swords Rd. (Turnapin Lane) stage 86 taken from the website. first of all i've to try and figure out where abouts this is then try and get the stage right in my head to work out how much the fare is for this passenger.
now look at this, from stage 80 Swords Rd. (Griffith Ave.)-86 Swords Rd. (Turnapin Lane). every stage in between here would only have "swords road" on our wayfarer when updating the system manually. not forgetting that (A) theres no stages numbers on the stops and (B) alot of these stops and stages could be out in the middle of nowhere right beside each other.
B.T.W i dont work this route and wouldn't have a clue where most of these places are.

starviewadams

dfx- wrote: »

Being on a fair few RVs in the past week on the 56A (long live the lowfloor 15 giving the other routes some nice RVs :cool: ) and the double doors have been used.

I miss the auld RV's,so much legroom compared to the EV's,my knees take an awful pounding from the seat in front of me whenever one turns up on the 13 or 69.Not designed for tall people!

LXFlyer

I don't miss the condensation and consequent pools of water upstairs on wet days though!

Posy

What's an R.V?

Waiting 17 minutes this eveing on the 27 while the drivers changed over. Crazy. :mad:

Posy

Posy wrote: »

What's an R.V?

The old Volvo Olympians from 1997-1999. There were also many others from 1990-1996 with a different engine and other minor differences.

The_Wrecker

markpb wrote: »

Apart from setting the route number and destination, there's no reason (that I can think of) for a driver to look at or interact with the AVL unit. I'm not even sure why it displays any information at all except maybe to assist lost drivers?

You can check running times/trip lists for other duties and routes. Recieve text messages from central control, mostly route curtailments due to fictional running time. I can inform them, by text when the bus is full as well.

wench

lxflyer wrote: »

I'm afraid you're wrong.

Fare stages on the 68:

68 Bulfin Rd.
69 Dolphin's Barn
70 South Circular Rd. (Donore Ave.)
71 South Circular Rd. (Leonard's Corner)
72 Kelly's Corner (Camden St.)

Fare Stages on the 122:

68 Herberton Rd.
69 Dolphin's Barn
70 South Circular Rd. (Donore Ave.)
71 South Circular Rd. (Leonard's Corner)
72 Kelly's Corner (Camden St.)

Therefore if you board either route on the South Circular Road in Rialto you are deemed to board at stage 68 (the nearest previous stage). 3 stages from that is Leonard's Corner.

Camden Street is 4 stages on either route unless you board after Dolphin's Barn Crossroads.

Its not that he is wrong, its that DB seem to have changed the stages on the 122 to match the 68.

I've had a look at the last couple of tickets I got on it - boarding on Herberton road, just after the canal -
on 23 Nov, ticket says I got on at stage 69, Keeper Road (SCR) to Stage 72, Kellys Corner
on 9 Dec, ticket says stage 68, Mourne Rd to stage 71, Leonards Corner.

AlekSmart

wench wrote: »

Its not that he is wrong, its that DB seem to have changed the stages on the 122 to match the 68.

I've had a look at the last couple of tickets I got on it - boarding on Herberton road, just after the canal -
on 23 Nov, ticket says I got on at stage 69, Keeper Road (SCR) to Stage 72, Kellys Corner
on 9 Dec, ticket says stage 68, Mourne Rd to stage 71, Leonards Corner.

To put it mildly wench,nobody knows,particularly the Drivers...

As an exercise I would suggest you contact the Custromer Query folks and enquire of them as to what Bus STOP Numbers corellate to the STAGES mentioned.....That should crease a few brows I can tell ya !!

If the company can now proudly boast of a numeric identifier on every Bus Stop,then they can damn well Re-identify the far more important STAGES too !!

dfx-

starviewadams wrote: »

I miss the auld RV's,so much legroom compared to the EV's,my knees take an awful pounding from the seat in front of me whenever one turns up on the 13 or 69.Not designed for tall people!

A couple of RV strays already have operated on the 13 from Harristown (RV631 certainly has), would love to get one on that route, great buses.

KD345

wench wrote: »

Its not that he is wrong, its that DB seem to have changed the stages on the 122 to match the 68.

I've had a look at the last couple of tickets I got on it - boarding on Herberton road, just after the canal -
on 23 Nov, ticket says I got on at stage 69, Keeper Road (SCR) to Stage 72, Kellys Corner
on 9 Dec, ticket says stage 68, Mourne Rd to stage 71, Leonards Corner.

Keeper Road has never been a stage point. On the old 122 route, stage 69 was Crumlin Road (Loretto Convent), but when the route was revised the stage moved to Herberton Road. Also, Keeper Road is nowhere near SCR, so why is that in brackets on your ticket?

The fare from Herberton Road to Camden Street is €1.65 (new fare €1.90).

Jaysoose

lxflyer wrote: »

How reliable is the 38/a/b now?

Given you (rightly) complained about it before the timetable has changed you have never posted about it since. Can we take it buses are showing up when they should?

Went to the train and only use the bus very sparingly as its not reliable.

LXFlyer

Jaysoose wrote: »

Went to the train and only use the bus very sparingly as its not reliable.

Does that not contrast with armanijeans post above?

I understand your issue with the 38a routing, but armanijeans seems to be suggesting that the bus is now actually appearing when it should be.

Jaysoose

lxflyer wrote: »

Does that not contrast with armanijeans post above?

I dont get your point, thats his experince as somebody that obviously uses the bus quite regulalrly. I used to get the bus every morning but when the changes were forced through i couldnt rely on the frequency of the reduced number of buses and the fluctuating arrival times to get me to the office at a regular time every morning from the snugborough road. This left me with the option of walking to the village to get the 39 or seeking alternative transport.

I made the concious decision to get the train to pearse and walk the 10-15 minutes the other side which would get me into the office at roughly the same time everyday.

Prior to these changes there was both the 38a and 38c which operated with greater frequency and were much more reliable for somebody commuting to the city centre for work.

So in short i choose to walk to castleknock train station to get a train then walk 15 minutes instead of getting a bus that would nearly drop me to the office door. So the bus service in blanch was altered to suit the needs of the few passengers that go from the village at the expense of the people travelling from the snugborough side. If you look at the 38b that do arrive around 8 they are often so full people are standing all the way into town as the schoolkids will get these buses. You get the 39 from the village and its half empty and the 38 will pick up very few then head off to castleknock. Try and tell me that as per the network direct blurb below how this is an improvement.



Changes which are designed to provide you and your community with more reliable, faster, and more direct services that better reflect customers needs for bus travel.

LXFlyer

Sorry I should have made myself clearer - I understand you rightly had a major issue before with the service in terms of reliability with buses not showing up/being curtailed to College Street.

And that forced you to change to the train.

What I was asking is since the latest timetable change which was on 17th April when the 38b was introduced, has the service become more reliable - i.e. are the buses showing up on time and are they operating the full journey, or in other words do they have the right running time. That was the fundamental problem with the original timetable - it was impossible to operate.

That point was answered by armanijeans above.

I appreciate that there is now another issue which is the revised routing of the 38a through the village which is lengthening the journey time and making it less attractive to use for anyone beyond Blanchardstown Village.

Jaysoose

The few buses i have got are now going to baggot street, as for reliability i cant really answer that question as the few buses i have got have been later in the morning when its been less of an issue for me to get in for 9 and i have a bit more fliexibility.

I couldnt really say if the buses that get the most commuter traffic are turning up on time or not but then im in a position were i cant take the risk and am obvioulsy using an alternative.

AlekSmart

Jaysoose wrote: »

I used to get the bus every morning but when the changes were forced through i couldnt rely on the frequency of the reduced number of buses and the fluctuating arrival times to get me to the office at a regular time every morning from the snugborough road. This left me with the option of walking to the village to get the 39 or seeking alternative transport.

I made the concious decision to get the train to pearse and walk the 10-15 minutes the other side which would get me into the office at roughly the same time everyday.

Prior to these changes there was both the 38a and 38c which operated with greater frequency and were much more reliable for somebody commuting to the city centre for work.

So in short i choose to walk to castleknock train station to get a train then walk 15 minutes instead of getting a bus that would nearly drop me to the office door. So the bus service in blanch was altered to suit the needs of the few passengers that go from the village at the expense of the people travelling from the snugborough side. If you look at the 38b that do arrive around 8 they are often so full people are standing all the way into town as the schoolkids will get these buses. You get the 39 from the village and its half empty and the 38 will pick up very few then head off to castleknock. Try and tell me that as per the network direct blurb below how this is an improvement.


Changes which are designed to provide you and your community with more reliable, faster, and more direct services that better reflect customers needs for bus travel.

Jaysoose's post above,is,IMO,representative of a significant number of our passenger base but,again IMO,this grouping has been spectacularly unsuccessful in having it's views listened to,never mind facilitated.

This is a major flaw in Network Direct's implementation,but is one which results largely from the company persisting with portraying ND as some form of desireable magic-formula by which removing 200 buses and 350 drivers can somehow result in no decrease in services.

It really is all about perception and being honest about service reductions and cutbacks might just have allowed the company some leeway in peoples minds.

Only yesterday,a Radio Call went out to advise all 7's,8's and 45's that they were to return to using Blackrock Village with immediate effect....as if this was some form highly desireable innovation which would revolutionise the Rock Road corridor.

Instead,particularly for City Bound pasengers,it may well lose us a few more regular pasengers who find the arkward dog-leg and obstruction ridden diversion through Blackrock Village one added delay too much.

Why..?....Ermmmm...but sure the buses always went that way...and sure had'nt the Trams a depot there...?...what would you want to be using an oul by-pass for ??

The savvy,time aware passenger base were led to believe that Network Direct,as a concept,was targeted at them...Straighteneing out routes,even headways,better options etc etc....instead,as ND has been rolled further out,we have seen a back-to-the-future effect as previously frequent,direct routes were treated to the Spirograph effect....

I believe we really do need to start catering for the Jaysoose's amongst our passenger base before they disappear altogether.

LXFlyer

Jaysoose wrote: »

The few buses i have got are now going to baggot street, as for reliability i cant really answer that question as the few buses i have got have been later in the morning when its been less of an issue for me to get in for 9 and i have a bit more fliexibility.

I couldnt really say if the buses that get the most commuter traffic are turning up on time or not but then im in a position were i cant take the risk and am obvioulsy using an alternative.

And unfortunately you are not alone in that.

It took far far too long to address.

Thanks for the reply.

Conway635

One of the (many) problems with this process is that the company is not free to think, act, or speak independently in order to discuss and act on the best interests of its customers, its staff, and its business.

Political interference in descision-making is routine, and senior management do not want to speak out about this, or other areas where they are being thwarted by other state and local bodies, for fear of suffering the displeasure of their masters.

Thus they cannot be honest, and talk about the large cutbacks that are needed, and about how decisions such as the removal of the Fuel Duty Rebate imposed massive extra cost.

They cannot pursue Network Direct as it should be pursued - the design of an efficient network serving the greater number of customers - because they are being pressured to continue with offline diversions to serve less attractive traffic objectives.

A fully independent private sector Dublin Bus would act in its own interest and provide better service, more directly, on the key corridors.

However areas such as Glencullen, Rockbrook, Rolestown, KIlliney, etc would be left to fend for themselves. Perhaps other, smaller private operators would step in.

A politicised, neutered Dublin Bus is the price we, unfortunately, have to pay for keeping the public service element of the network.

C635

Dodge

Personally like that DB at least tries to cater to all areas.

I also think this line

A fully independent private sector Dublin Bus would act in its own interest and provide better service

is a bit of a contradiction in terms, and certainly ad odds with this line

A politicised, neutered Dublin Bus is the price we, unfortunately, have to pay for keeping the public service element of the network

If you're trying to provide a service, but no to the public, whats the point?

Conway635

Dodge wrote: »

Personally like that DB at least tries to cater to all areas.

I also think this line

is a bit of a contradiction in terms, and certainly ad odds with this line


If you're trying to provide a service, but no to the public, whats the point?

Well, if you chop off the end of my sentence, of course it looks contradictory!

What I said was:

"A fully independent private sector Dublin Bus would act in its own interest and provide better service, more directly, on the key corridors".

I then went on to say that this better service on the key corridors would be at the expense of other areas.

So no contradiction there.

To restate my position: we currently have an operator which is obliged to serve all areas. There is a lot of politics involved in that, and in times of shrinking resources, it can prevent that operator from taking hard commercial decisions in favour of larger groups of passengers on heavily used corridors.

An alternative is a company freed to make commercial decisions as it sees fit, however this would almost certainly result in loss of service for a number of areas.

The one thing we can't have is a company which is super-efficient commercially, which also serves all areas at all times.

The current system may be our least worst option, especially if you, as I do, live on a low-frequency marginal route.

C635

C635

Noopti

Are some buses just not "hooked up" to the RTPI system? I have noticed a good few times while waiting for a 16/a at College Green, that a 16 will turn up even though there was no mention of it on the display.

Speaking of the 16/a, a common sight for me on the RTPI is something like this:
16: Due
16: Due
16/a: Due
16: 2 mins

And then when I get on one, and check the iphone RTPI app 5 minutes later the next 16/a after that lot would be 30 minutes away. Is this "bunching up" of buses caused by traffic or what?