Everybody can come into our liberal paradise - just don't go to their countries!

darkman2

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0404/dubai.html


Why are we tolerating the intolerant? Muslims can come here and do what they like in our fluffy and liberal country yet go to one of their countries and they are not so liberal. Meanwhile we put up with not only having to fork out dole and support but to listen to the protests against "the west" (presumably us aswell). Really if they have a problem or don't like it or us why don't they f*ck off home? They would clearly be more comfortable? This is a much bigger problem in Britain then here and sparks have been flying there for years. Sadly we learn nothing in this country because we are stupid and doomed to repeat the same mistakes. We are tolerating the intolerant, an intolerant religous fanatacism.

MaybeLogic

So there are Muslims in Ireland protesting about people kissing each other in public?

minidazzler

Because you should adapt to the culture that YOU go to.

Not try to push your western ideals on that culture.

If you don't like their culture, tough sh1t and don't o there.

OutlawPete

Because the western world has no back bone when it comes to Muslim countries.

We had sanctions againist White South Africa for human rights issues but yet we allow Muslim countries do as they please .

seanybiker

Durka durka.
Bate some manners into em

Smyth

Due to our country having no clear identity or backbone.

darkman2

minidazzler wrote: »

Because you should adapt to the culture that YOU go to.

Not try to push your western ideals on that culture.

If you don't like their culture, tough sh1t and don't o there.

And, eh, what about them pushing their ideals on us? The punishment is quite clear for secularism and openess is their countries.

minidazzler

darkman2 wrote: »

And, eh, what about them pushing their ideals on us? The punishment is quite clear for secularism and openess is their countries.

Our ideals allow them to try to push their ideals on us, that doesn't mean we will fold.

So what if "their" countries have such punishments, do you want to see us go down that road?

MaybeLogic

OutlawPete wrote: »

Because the western world has no back bone when it comes to Muslim countries.

We had sanctions againist White South Africa for human rights issues but yet we allow Muslim countries do as they please .

But aren't there all sorts of weird laws in America concerning sexual peccadilloes. Anal sex and blowjobs are illegal in some places there, I believe.
Homosexuality was illegal here till not too recently.
I'm sure the Muslims will catch up.
One generation, I'd say.
Leave them at it.
Meanwhile the ones who come here, are welcome, imo, as long as they don't try to shove their morality down my throat. This applies to the likes of those Christian loons protesting at the Well-Woman clinics also.

darkman2

minidazzler wrote: »

Our ideals allow them to try to push their ideals on us, that doesn't mean we will fold.

So what if "their" countries have such punishments, do you want to see us go down that road?

I want us to stop being so naieve and stupid. Ask the Dutch. Within 5 years Muslims will hold the balance of power there. You have to wonder how liberal the Netherlands will be then.

Crucifix

You're right darkman, the only way to beat the facists is to become bigger facists ourselves!

MaybeLogic

darkman2 wrote: »

I want us to stop being so naieve and stupid. Ask the Dutch. Within 5 years Muslims will hold the balance of power there. You have to wonder how liberal the Netherlands will be then.

How liberal is it getting now with Harry Potter in power here, at the minute??
It's been going backwards, because of the Christian Right, for some time.

(see my location)

minidazzler

darkman2 wrote: »

I want us to stop being so naieve and stupid. Ask the Dutch. Within 5 years Muslims will hold the balance of power there. You have to wonder how liberal the Netherlands will be then.

If, in my lifetime Sharia law has a valid claim at being introduced here, I will admit I was wrong, and in fact I will fight it.

But I don't think it will happen.

Atlantic Dawn

We shouldn't allow women to be treated like dogs here in having to wear the hijab, make it illegal to wear dodgy clothing.

bnt

Because Muslims are right and everyone else is wrong, of course. Didn't you know that? When you're so fundamentally right in every way, you can lie to everyone else on the planet and treat them as you feel like doing, as long as it gets the desired result: more Islam. It's all for your own good, remember. We wouldn't be having these problems if everyone lived in one big happy ummah, would we? The ends justify the means. :rolleyes:

gbee

I think Ireland was great ... but we sold out our tourists who in some US magazines said one might as well to to Latvia, Estonia or Poland as it is cheaper and the Irish Culture is gone.

That hits the tourist industry in the pocket.

In Muslim countries, one HAS to obey Muslim laws ... Irish nurses have been threatened with decapitation, stoning and amputation after they wandered off their campus in a drunken or otherwise distressed state of scanty dress ~ think like a Muslim now.

We watched women being beheaded on TV for a crime that would merely have divorce lawyers here happy for months.

Muslims living here do not necessarily have to have to live by our laws, what many of them say could be construed as treason and blasphemy. We are officially a Christian State and if I were in a Muslim country today, saying this, I'd just disappear.

Now, there are moderate Muslims who believe in much the same way as many Christians .. but you won't hear from them as it breaks another Muslim command ... which is why the Muslim leader in Ireland's recent statement was so profound.

minidazzler

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

We shouldn't allow women to be treated like dogs here in having to wear the hijab, make it illegal to wear dodgy clothing.

I assume nuns would not be permitted to wear a habit in public if we ban the hajib?

genericguy

MaybeLogic wrote: »

blowjobs are illegal in some places there, I believe.

oh my fcuking god.

OutlawPete

MaybeLogic wrote: »

But aren't there all sorts of weird laws in America concerning sexual peccadilloes. Anal sex and blowjobs are illegal in some places there, I believe.
Homosexuality was illegal here till not too recently.
I'm sure the Muslims will catch up.
One generation, I'd say.
Leave them at it.
Meanwhile the ones who come here, are welcome, imo, as long as they don't try to shove their morality down my throat. This applies to the likes of those Christian loons protesting at the Well-Woman clinics also.

You have a point if you just focus on Dubai but the OP then expands the post and talks about Muslims in general.

My post was really more about the crap that goes on in Muslim countries and yet the western world does not have the same response that they would have for instance if that country committing the same human rights atrocities was a white christian country.

Not just Muslim countries though, I feel the same about our reaction to Rwanda.

Some people feel we should not Police the world, I disagree - we have to, otherwise we don't have a world.

What also amazes me is people who say let them do what they want, it's there country and yet then has no problem with them coming and living here in their thousands. The two simply cannot go hand in hand in my opinion.

MaybeLogic

genericguy wrote: »

oh my fcuking god.

http://novelspot.net/node/1581

bonerm

Because the power-structure at the top of the social pyramid would rather have the rest of us fighting with each and worrying about media exagerated problems created by our "enemies" (whether it be crime caused by ethnic minorities, the unending wave of terrorism, or even reds in the bed, ). Whilst we're spending our time doing that we have no wishes to go after those at the top who keep us in capitalist slavery.

cafecolour

OutlawPete wrote: »

Because the western world has no back bone when it comes to Muslim countries.

We had sanctions againist White South Africa for human rights issues but yet we allow Muslim countries do as they please .

Eh. South Africa didn't have anything anyone needed/wanted tough. It was easy to have 'sanctions' because there were no trading repercussions.

Muslim countries is where most of our oil comes from. Oil currently gives us heat, transport, most of our goods (plastic being primarily petroleum derived), food (modern fertilizer being primarily petroleum derived), etc.

Same as you won't see real sanctions on China, because everyone wants their cheap clothes/electronic goods/etc.

MaybeLogic

OutlawPete wrote: »

You have a point if you just focus on Dubai but the OP then expands the post and talks about Muslims in general.

My post was really more about the crap that goes on in Muslim countries and yet the western world does not have the same response that they would have for instance if that country committing the same human rights atrocities was a white christian country.

Not just Muslim countries though, I feel the same about our reaction to Rwanda.

Some people feel we should not Police the world, I disagree - we have to, otherwise we don't have a world.

What also amazes me is people who say let them do what they want, it's there country and yet then has no problem with them coming and living here in their thousands. The two simply cannot go hand in hand in my opinion.

Nor do they protest about the Israelis or Chines or whoever, cause that's business.
Getting away from the point.
The OP started a rant about Muslims here ho want to impose their morality on us, then the thread just descends into another general Muslim bashing thread, which will continue long after this post.
Which Muslims here want to impose their morality on us?
The lone nut from MPAC and his handful of supporters?
This reflects on the 20,000 or so Muslims who do live here and who do generally integrate well with Irish society??

OutlawPete

MaybeLogic wrote: »

Nor do they protest about the Israelis or Chines or whoever, cause that's business.

There's far more protests and digust against China / Burma etc

You can go on TV and slate Burma for instance an you will be a hero.

You say complain about human rights issues in a Muslim or Black country and people start looking at you as if you are a racist.

I hate pointless rants about Muslims as much as you but we have to be able to express our disgust at human rights issues.

MaybeLogic wrote: »

Which Muslims here want to impose their morality on us?

I don't agree with them on that point.

Nodin

darkman2 wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0404/dubai.html


Why are we tolerating the intolerant? Muslims can come here and do what they like in our fluffy and liberal country yet go to one of their countries and they are not so liberal. Meanwhile we put up with not only having to fork out dole and support but to listen to the protests against "the west" (presumably us aswell). Really if they have a problem or don't like it or us why don't they f*ck off home? They would clearly be more comfortable? This is a much bigger problem in Britain then here and sparks have been flying there for years. Sadly we learn nothing in this country because we are stupid and doomed to repeat the same mistakes. We are tolerating the intolerant, an intolerant religous fanatacism.

'Them people over thar done somethin!!!! Lets take it out on some people here!!!!!'

MaybeLogic

OutlawPete wrote: »

There's far more protests and digust against China / Burma etc

Because,Tibet and Burma are the cause celebres and Muslims the scapegoats du jour.

I hate pointless rants about Muslims as much as you but we have to be able to express our disgust at human rights issues.

Of course we can. Protest away. And there will be plenty of Muslims all over the world as disgusted by this story as much as we are.

It's the lumping of people in one pot, that always gets my goat, be they Muslims, Jews, Blacks, Women...whatever.
It's just fucking ignorance, basically.

Captain Slow IRL

Meh!

Some jealous singleton saw red when she saw a couple kissing. We have the same cúnts here, they just don't have the law on their side:rolleyes:

OutlawPete

MaybeLogic wrote: »

Because,Tibet and Burma are the cause celebres and Muslims the scapegoats du jour.

In fairness, Muslims countries are not just scapegoats.

They regularly hand out barbaric punishments for minor crimes such as girls getting pregnant out of wedlock.

MaybeLogic wrote: »

Of course we can. Protest away. And there will be plenty of Muslims all over the world as disgusted by this story as much as we are.

There is far different reaction globally when someone criticizes Islamic countries than any others. Even Amnesty International got heat of Muslim organizations for daring to say that executing women by stoning was barbaric.

There is a sense that people should just keep their mouths shut on these issues just because they are Muslim countries.

If this was Australians doing this things, do you not think there would be far more of an outrage?

Elevator

I think we should definately take australias line on this subject

http://hubpages.com/hub/AUSTRALIAN-PRIME-MINISTER-TELL-MUSLIMSTAKE-IT-OR-LEAVE

MaybeLogic

OutlawPete wrote: »

They regularly hand out barbaric punishments for minor crimes such as girls getting pregnant out of wedlock.



There is far different reaction globally when someone criticizes Islamic countries than any others. Even Amnesty International got heat of Muslim organizations for daring to say that executing women by stoning was barbaric.

There is a sense that people should just keep their mouths shut on these issues just because they are Muslim countries.

I've no argument with what you're saying. These things go on in Muslim countries, yes. And it's terrible, yes. And it needs to be said, yes.
Just don't colour all Muslims with the same paintbrush.

If this was Australians doing this things, do you not think there would be far more of an outrage?

Like we regularly protest about their treatment of the Aborigines and the way they treat immigrant arrivals by locking them up and abusing them in camps in the desert??

OutlawPete

MaybeLogic wrote: »

Just don't colour all Muslims with the same paintbrush.

I don't.

I posted many times of how barbaric Guantanamo Bay was and I would never treat or expect Muslims in our country to be treated with anything other than the utmost respect.

My comments are directed at this countries regimes, not the people who go about their daily lives as immigrants throughout the world that come from these countries.

old_aussie

When I'm on the train and see a muslim I always put one leg up so that the sole of the shoe on that foot faces the muslim.

I've had some of them get so upset that they actually started abusing me and several have actually attempted to physically assault me.

Last one who put his hands on me got a hiding and was arrested by police at the next station.

When he went to court for assault, he said what I was doing was an insult to islam and that he had the religious right to act against me as he did. Violence is their answer to most things that they don't approve of.

muslims don't assimilate onto the community, they try to change it to their way.

PK2008

2 wrongs dont make a right

Why should we lower our standards just because other countries have

dlofnep

old_aussie wrote: »

When I'm on the train and see a muslim I always put one leg up so that the sole of the shoe on that foot faces the muslim.

I've had some of them get so upset that they actually started abusing me and several have actually attempted to physically assault me.

Last one who put his hands on me got a hiding and was arrested by police at the next station.

When he went to court for assault, he said what I was doing was an insult to islam and that he had the religious right to act against me as he did. Violence is their answer to most things that they don't approve of.

muslims don't assimilate onto the community, they try to change it to their way.

So you intentionally insulted them to provoke a reaction? You're great aren't you. No different than giving someone the finger.

If you did it unintentionally, then you would have a point. But to purposefully go out of your way to insult someone and provoke them is wrong.

Antbert

Ah hello typical biggoted AH post.

I think you miss the point of us being a liberal country. Here is the glaring error with what you say: Muslims (or whoever) come here and attempt to "inflict" some of their (albeit unpleasant by our standards) customs on this society. You cry out "But if I went to a Muslim country and wore a strappy top " -(you're probably not a girl, but bear with me) - "I'd be arrested! How brutally unfair!"

So, in order to combat this injustice, you suggest we adopt the policies of these Muslim countries, hence oppressing the other cultures when they come here.

Then we become exactly the same, and no longer liberal.

It's a bit of a catch 22 isn't it.

But no, actually, it isn't. Because I have my doubts that this particular issue has ever personally affected you.

PK2008 said it much better than I did. But the general idea is the same.

Mike 1972

Id been wondering what happened to AH. Its been a while since we had an arent-muslims-frightfully-dreadful rant thread......a good six weeks I think :rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI

MaybeLogic

OutlawPete wrote: »

I don't.

I never said you did. I was talking in general.

Dudess

darkman2 wrote: »

Muslims can come here and do what they like in our fluffy and liberal country yet go to one of their countries and they are not so liberal.

Exactly. Their society is one way, ours is another ("fluffy" I'm not so sure).

Dudess

old_aussie wrote: »

When I'm on the train and see a muslim I always put one leg up so that the sole of the shoe on that foot faces the muslim.

What on earth is that supposed to achieve?

old_aussie

dlofnep wrote: »

So you intentionally insulted them to provoke a reaction? You're great aren't you. No different than giving someone the finger.

If you did it unintentionally, then you would have a point. But to purposefully go out of your way to insult someone and provoke them is wrong.

I'll sit on a train in Australia as comfortably as I want to.

It's just a factual example of how our Aussie culture has to deal with muslim who want to impose their beliefs. Many people sit with one foot over the knee of the other leg, and I'm not going to change my culture just cause some muslim is sitting opposite me.

muslims should adapt to their new country and respect our Aussie culture, not expect Australia to change for them.



Get a grip

OutlawPete

MaybeLogic wrote: »

I never said you did. I was talking in general.

Yeah, well in future make it clear or next time you're flying home, I'll phone customs and tell them to get their rubber gloves out, as MaybeLogic's carrying some undeclared internal hand luggage

Adyx

old_aussie wrote: »

When I'm on the train and see a muslim I always put one leg up so that the sole of the shoe on that foot faces the muslim.

I've had some of them get so upset that they actually started abusing me and several have actually attempted to physically assault me.

Last one who put his hands on me got a hiding and was arrested by police at the next station.

When he went to court for assault, he said what I was doing was an insult to islam and that he had the religious right to act against me as he did. Violence is their answer to most things that they don't approve of.

muslims don't assimilate onto the community, they try to change it to their way.

What a hero. :rolleyes:

"Violence is their answer to most things that they don't approve of."
Acting like an ignorant bigot is obviously your answer.

Dudess

old_aussie wrote: »

Get a grip

Why should he "get a grip"?
You said you sit in such a way as a "fuck you" to them - just because they appear to be muslim, as if you're spoiling for a fight.

old_aussie

Dudess wrote: »

What on earth is that supposed to achieve?

It's supposed to achieve a comfortable sitting position.

Also to show a muslim the sole of your shoe is an insult to them.

It's not against the law to sit as you want in Australia, and i don't see why I should change to accomodate a religin that I don't give a damn about.

They want to come to Australia, let the abide by our culture

MaybeLogic

OutlawPete wrote: »

Yeah, well in future make it clear or next time you're flying home, I'll phone customs and tell them to get their rubber gloves out, as MaybeLogic's carrying some undeclared internal hand luggage

Apologies for the ambiguity of my original statement.
And as long as you phone a female Customs Officer, I wouldn't mind too much.

dlofnep

old_aussie wrote: »

I'll sit on a train in Australia as comfortably as I want to.

I wasn't questioning your right to sit comfortably. That's not the issue. The issue is knowingly insulting someone, and not expecting them to be upset. If you didn't know that it upset them, then you could plead ignorance - but this isn't even a case of ignorance because you know exactly what you are doing, and know that it will upset them.

old_aussie wrote: »

It's just a factual example of how our Aussie culture has to deal with muslim who want to impose their beliefs. Many people sit with one foot over the knee of the other leg, and I'm not going to change my culture lust cause some muslim is sitting opposite me.

No - that's not what we are discussing here at all. If you sit down, and have your foot up to relax, and a muslim later so happens to sit down at a perfect angle from your foot - then, that's not your fault. You've done no wrong. But when you do it, and aim it at muslims with intent of provoking a reaction - it's wrong.

old_aussie wrote: »

muslims should adapt to their new country and respect our Aussie culture, not expect Australia to change for them.

I've alot of respect for Aboriginal culture. Do you?

old_aussie wrote: »

Get a grip

I have a grip. I'm just schooled enough to know the difference between ignorance, and purposeful provocation.

twinQuins

old_aussie wrote: »

When I'm on the train and see a muslim I always put one leg up so that the sole of the shoe on that foot faces the muslim.

old_aussie wrote: »

I'll sit on a train in Australia as comfortably as I want to.

Go go gadget backpedal!

If you deliberately provoke them then you deserve what you get.

old_aussie

You see, muslims want me to change, not because what I'm doing is against the law, but because it doesn't agree with their religion.

Laws are the rules in Australia, NOT islam.

Dudess

old_aussie wrote: »

Also to show a muslim the sole of your shoe is an insult to them.

Right, so you're baiting them but you tell dlofnep to "get a grip" for just saying what you're doing. Why bait them? They might be perfectly happy to sit there quietly and mind their own business, and accept Australian culture (heh, the irony - bunch of Europeans sh1tting all over aboriginal culture is the root of that...)

philologos

minidazzler wrote: »

Because you should adapt to the culture that YOU go to.

Not try to push your western ideals on that culture.

If you don't like their culture, tough sh1t and don't go there.

I agree with you to a certain extent. This point has to be made clear though. The UAE have been promoting Dubai as a liberal paradise in the largely conservative Middle East for a long time now, by making alcohol legal and the like.

It's perfectly understandable in a city with such a confused identity that people could be confused as to what are the cultural standards of Dubai in particular.

If the UAE were like Saudi Arabia, I'd understand that people should be expected to respect the Royal Family, and not to criticise Islam and the like, as that isn't culturally or legally acceptable in Saudi Arabia. However, with a country like the UAE which has a confused identity, this isn't the easiest thing to do.

darkman2 wrote: »

And, eh, what about them pushing their ideals on us? The punishment is quite clear for secularism and openess is their countries.

Secularism? Don't you mean atheism, or agnosticism? Secularism refers to a society, or a government policy to keep church and state separate.

It's not just atheism anyway, Judaism, Bahaism, Christianity and other such beliefs are quite heavily restricted in the Middle East.

rossie1977

ireland liberal

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa73/jwedge310/shaqlaughswalk.gif