Lidl proposed for Swords

PCros

So what do people think about Lidl going onto the site of the petrol station on the Rathbeale road?

I think its a joke that road is way too busy already with JCs and the garage in question.

Anybody who lives around there knows what its like to drive up the Rathbeale around Christmas with shoppers going to JCs, imagine another entrance to another big supermarket 50 metres away...it would be chaos.

I think a good site for Lidl would be the Woodies site when they move out.

Sinemo

Where did you hear woodies were moving out?

Elliee

I do think its a bad site also, the road just wouldnt cope.

Although im not sure where would be better, maybe up around airside?

Elliee

Woodies is atlantic homecare now isnt it? Are they closing the one down across from hertz and just leaving the one up in Airside?

Tropheus

Noticed that. Woodies and Atlantic are owned by Chadwicks. Not many people may have noticed, but the Atlantic in Airside recently became Woodies which begs the obvious question as to why they would have two Woodies so close together.

The old Woodies is not a great location, but if it was a Lidl/Aldi, I think it would do ok. They tend to set up in non-prime locations so I can't see a problem with the old Woodies location. Time will tell!!

Ginny

I can't see Lidl going ahead, the Esso and the house beside it are supposedly going.
Trying to get out of JC's is bad enough w3ithout sticking something else on that stretch, Actually Lidl in the old Woodies would be a much better idea!

meditraitor

Its an aweful location, any planner worth his salt(is there any decent planners?;)) would see that the road is a disaster at the best of times.

PCros

Elliee wrote: »

Woodies is atlantic homecare now isnt it? Are they closing the one down across from hertz and just leaving the one up in Airside?

Yeah the old Woodies is closing down, used to work there when I was in college and I was speaking to an old manager who said that they would be shutting the seatown one down this year.

I think this would be a good location for Lidl, we have to remember all the businesses around there like Hertz etc that employ alot of people, would be handy for them to so some shopping after work.

As for Airside, Lidl applied to put a shop up there but they were refused some years ago.

Uriel.

I wish they'd move the traffic lights up to the entrance of JCs - that would make thew whole road in that area much safer.

I can't see JC being to pleased with the possibility of Lidl going in there. To be fair to him he's been a great employer for the locality for many years and indeed a great service provider to the locals, so while competition is great etc... I hope that it doesn't go ahead in the proposed location.

Would the site of the garage be big enough for a Lidl anyway? (taking into account car parking etc..)

The garage is goldmine there too I would have thought - especially at the prices they charge for petrol..

pinkypinky

Petrol is a scandalous price at that Esso. For JCs sake, I really hope Lidl does not go ahead there. I'm a big supporter of JCs but Lidl would undoubtedly take business away. The Woodies site would be a much better location for them.

PCros

Uriel. wrote: »

Would the site of the garage be big enough for a Lidl anyway? (taking into account car parking etc..)

Thats what I taught at first but the cottage beside it is going aswell.

Uriel.

PCros wrote: »

Thats what I taught at first but the cottage beside it is going aswell.

Ah right. Interesting. Thanks for that.

Wasn't the area just to the side of the cottage designated for accomodation for settled travellers? I could be wrong on that though.

PCros

Uriel. wrote: »

Ah right. Interesting. Thanks for that.

Wasn't the area just to the side of the cottage designated for accomodation for settled travellers? I could be wrong on that though.

No its just a private caravan park nothing to do with travellers.

Dizzyblonde

I love the thought of Lidl coming to Swords, but I have to agree that the Rathbeale Road site is all wrong. The Woodies site at Seatown would be perfect.

We shop at JC's and like a lot of his customers we feel very loyal because he's always looked after his customers so well.

Uriel.

PCros wrote: »

No its just a private caravan park nothing to do with travellers.

I have marked out the cottage and land that will be used, they also own the land behind the house to the left of the garage.

That's really great. Cheers.

Have Lidl actually purchased the site at this stage? or leasing it etc...?

If it does open up there.... Were will Aldi go?

Ginny

Is it definitely that cottage and not the one to the other side?
Just as the other one has a mlot more land and would give a bigger site.

PCros

Uriel. wrote: »

That's really great. Cheers.

Have Lidl actually purchased the site at this stage? or leasing it etc...?

If it does open up there.... Were will Aldi go?

Not sure if they've puchased the site but the have submitted a application for planning permission. I have heard that the residents along that road will all object to it so we'll see in time.

Also apparently Lidl takes deliveries in the early hours of the morning so that will not go down with immediate neighbours.

As for Aldi.....I'm sure they'll try squeeze there in somewhere.:D

PCros

Ginny wrote: »

Is it definitely that cottage and not the one to the other side?
Just as the other one has a mlot more land and would give a bigger site.

Yep the one on the right. Think the Garrigans who own the site also own that cottage.

jackiexx

thats crazy isnt it!!!is jcs not cheap enough as it is without competitors:P

Ginny

PCros wrote: »

Yep the one on the right. Think the Garrigans who own the site also own that cottage.

found the planning application http://planning.fingalcoco.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayURL?theApnID=F10A/0088
It does seem to be the other house the one between JCs and the Esso

PCros

Ah I'm stupid.....when i read it: "cottage to the right of the garage", I was thinking of me looking at the garage hence why I indicated the other cottage.:o

Ginny

Nay bothers, I was wondering why the little cottage was going...:D

pinkypinky

I'm thinking of submitting an objection to it.

Has anyone done this before? I phoned the council: there's no formalised procedure - you just write a letter with your fee attached. They've 2 objections in already and it has to be in by 15th April.

I'm open to suggestions on what should be in it.

Uriel.

Well, why do you want to object (I am not trying to be smart here)?
If your thinking of objecting for a reason other than for the hell of it then I am sure you have an idea in your mind - just formulate that reason on paper and submit to the Fingal CC.

pinkypinky

I certainly am not objecting for the hell of it. I'm just wondering what other people think. My thinking is 2 supermarkets beside each other will cause traffic hell on a road that's already bad, there are other areas with almost no shops they would be better served, JCs would suffer....etc.

crispsandwiches

greedy fingal don't care they just want the bounty of juicy rates from LIDL. its madness allowing them to locate on that rd as per reasons outlined above.

Uriel.

pinkypinky wrote: »

I certainly am not objecting for the hell of it. I'm just wondering what other people think. My thinking is 2 supermarkets beside each other will cause traffic hell on a road that's already bad, there are other areas with almost no shops they would be better served, JCs would suffer....etc.

Exactly, you should object on grounds of safety issues - due to volume of traffic etc... on the road - possible on the grounds of two "heavy duty" use entrances (i.e. delivery trucks etc...) within close proximity.

Industrial/commercial traffic operating at insociable hours etc...

Just to re-iterate - I wasn't being smart with you before.

Uriel.

PS. I am not really sure if objecting on behalf of JCs suffering would mean anything during the planning assessment process. Not really sure though. All the same, all submissions have to be considered and I imagine JC will be putting forward his own strong submission.

Don't be afraid to make use of your local Reps. either - e.g. Deputy Kennedy - he cannot interfere with the planning process - but he could certainly rally the troops - speak in the ears of FF local cousellors etc...

I do think Lidl coming to Swords is a good thing though. I am just undecided with regards to the proposed location at the minute.

The other thing of course is to consider - while they might go ahead and grant planning permission to the Lidl project - the concerns that are put to the Planning Board may be incorporated into the decision and certain restrictions/requirements could be placed on any permission granted - i.e. the roads upgrade that was required for Ikea's permission.

Uriel.

crispsandwiches wrote: »

greedy fingal don't care they just want the bounty of juicy rates from LIDL. its madness allowing them to locate on that rd as per reasons outlined above.

They'd get more or less the same rates no matter where Lidl is located in Swords. The exact location, is relatively unimportant from that point of view. Greed won't play much of a role in the situation.

Apparently, the land is "sale agreed" subject to planning permission so Lidl won't be down an awful lot of money if planning isn't granted for that particular area.

Rowley Birkin QC

Objections will cost you €20 too, have to be based on Planning grounds and must be submitted within 5 weeks of the submission date of the planning file

pinkypinky

Yes, I intend to copy my objections to the local Swords councillors and TDs. It irks me a bit that I have to pay the money to object legitimately but it's worth it in this case.

Uriel.

pinkypinky wrote: »

Yes, I intend to copy my objections to the local Swords councillors and TDs. It irks me a bit that I have to pay the money to object legitimately but it's worth it in this case.

I know what you are saying in relation to the cost but believe me it is there for good reason.

When you have to pay for something like this - objections received are much more likely to be genuine and centred around the real issues rather than ideology and bandwagonning (not sure if that's a real word).

It helps to limit the time wasting reviewing silly submissions made by people who are not going to be affected etc... saves money and speeds up the process.

dsmythy

jackiexx wrote: »

thats crazy isnt it!!!is jcs not cheap enough as it is without competitors:P

I suspect Lidl fancy their chances of taking JC's down thus removing the issue of two supermarkets side by side.

meditraitor

dsmythy wrote: »

I suspect Lidl fancy their chances of taking JC's down thus removing the issue of two supermarkets side by side.

They would be wrong there, JC's is as cheap and the fruit/veg actually last longer than a day once you bring it home.
3 bottle of wine for a €10 in JCs a few weeks ago, and always bargains when I go in.


The main difference I find is that JC's is one of those shops that you can go to regular and not get pissed off with. Lidl/aldi are an odd time for a look shop.

PCros

dsmythy wrote: »

I suspect Lidl fancy their chances of taking JC's down thus removing the issue of two supermarkets side by side.

Quality...JC's has it and Lidl doesnt. The meat, poultry and fish in JC's is top quality as for the meat in Lidl I wouldn't feed to my cat.

Plus the whole range in JCs would be superior, Lidls tend to be small with not alot of selection.

This argument is more about the traffic and infrastructure rather than competition.

Uriel.

I think JC is likley to suffer a bit no doubt. But I think as the last poster says, JCs will survive the competition.

For example, JCs offers low prices in or around the same as what Lidl offers in most cases but at the same time offers great service.

You go in to Lidl and you're lucky to have two checkouts open and queue for ages with your shopping etc... even if you're just buying a handful of things - no baskets etc... Now that's their business model like what Ryanair offers (no frills) and I've no problem with that - you need to expect that service going in there but put Lidl and JCs side by side and I will choose JCs everyday of the week.

sharkman

R.I.P JC Savage, Legend.

Bluetonic

What traffic does the garage currently generate per hour and how does this compare with predicted traffic for Lidl?

If the quality of JCs food is so much superior than Lidls as outlined above and thats what the consumer wants then they should have no problem competing, in fact they've no reason to be concerned.

Wishbone Ash

ksimpson wrote: »

The old Woodies is not a great location

I thought it was a fine location with easy access off the R132 and quite near the M1. It depends where you live but I think going to Airside is a lot more hassle and timeconsuming and only accessible from the M1 in one direction.

I don't know if it will suit Lidl though as I think they go for green field sites and construct from scratch. I can't see them demolishing Woodies to rebuild.

crispsandwiches wrote: »

greedy fingal don't care they just want the bounty of juicy rates from LIDL. its madness allowing them to locate on that rd as per reasons outlined above.

Wouldn't the rates be the same in any site in the town?

Uriel. wrote: »

- e.g. Deputy Kennedy - he cannot interfere with the planning process - but he could certainly rally the troops - speak in the ears of FF local cousellors etc....

That's what has the country the way it is - bending the ear of FF reps. I'd prefer to leave the matter to the planners who should be qualified to make such decisions.

pinkypinky wrote: »

It irks me a bit that I have to pay the money to object legitimately

The fee is to deter the 'do-gooders' and busybodies from objecting to everything for the sake of it.

(I'd say the people who own that recently and expensively refurbished house opposite the filling station won't be too impressed to have a Lidl opposite them.)

JRCC

I haven’t looked at the application but based on the comments, I would raise the following points.

That there is already a shop/service station on the site I would suggest the planners will consider the current use. There is also quite clearly traffic movement in and out of the site at the moment. That includes the HGV traffic that someone mentioned earlier. Obviously delivery of the fuel and stock for the shop is done by HGV. I would suggest that there will not be much additional traffic movement in and out of the site in comparison to what happens there at the moment. In fact, I would say that the current flow of traffic is more intensive as there is more of a turnover. People go in, fill up, pay and leave. I could be wrong but that's what I believe on the face of it.

As for the Woodies site being a better location. For who? That location will not be considered sustainable for retail until the METRO North project is delivered. It is outside the central core of the town, on the far side of the Swords bypass and would be primarily accessed by car. We have to get real and move away from a reliance on private transport to go to the shops.

I know it may be unpopular to say but in planning terms the Rathbeale Road location does seem to be the optimal location for a medium size retail outlet because of the amount of residential development in the area. It is making the area more like a sustainable development because it is bringing services into the community as opposed to bringing the community out of the area to avail of the services.

My suggestion would be that you don’t just to call on the outright rejection of the application but call for the inclusion of additional conditions to the permission granted by the council. For example, if traffic movement is your concern, request that a pedestrian crossing be located adjacent to the site at the expense of the applicant. This will act both as a traffic calming measure and ensure safe pedestrian movement in and around the site. If it’s at the expense of the applicant it means public money will not be used to enhance the safety around this private retail development.

As for asking TDs to intervene. They have no influence over planning matters; they’re not even members of the council. They can make a submission the same as you can. By all means contact your local councillors as they can raise the matter at the Area Committee meeting dealing with planning matters in the Swords area. Again, they have no influence on the outcome but they can put the feeling in the community forward to the planners.

Finally, the point made in regard to the impact the development will have on JC’s is valid but it is ultimately the market that will determine which outlet will flourish or not. JC’s is established and has a lot more variety available to the customer than Lidl has (Dunnes Stores, Florists etc). JC’s also has a loyal customer base. However, if they don’t amend their business plan to stay in that position, they will lose business to Lidl. Overall, competition in the retail sector is good for the consumer so the people will see the benefit in the long run.

PCros

JRCC wrote: »

There is also quite clearly traffic movement in and out of the site at the moment. That includes the HGV traffic that someone mentioned earlier. Obviously delivery of the fuel and stock for the shop is done by HGV.

Yes but the HGV traffic will be in the middle of the night as opposed to during the day. That is unfair for local residents.

You also made a point that Woodies is outside the core town.... so is the Rathbeale road location outside the core location. In fact the Woodies location is ten times easier to access for residents in Malahide, Skerries, Donabate and all other outlying towns.

Bluetonic

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I don't know if it will suit Lidl though as I think they go for green field sites and construct from scratch. I can't see them demolishing Woodies to rebuild.

Lidl in Balbriggan was not a green field site, the old Hampton Mills factory was on the site and had to be demolished.

Bluetonic

PCros wrote: »

Yes but the HGV traffic will be in the middle of the night as opposed to during the day. That is unfair for local residents.

There are no deliveries in Balbriggan Lidl during the middle of the night and that is also in a residential area, surrounded by houses on two sides for the record.

Where are you getting the middle of the night deliveries from?

Wishbone Ash

JRCC wrote: »

It is outside the central core of the town, on the far side of the Swords bypass and would be primarily accessed by car. We have to get real and move away from a reliance on private transport to go to the shops

The vast majority of people who only venture to a supermarket a couple of times a month are not realistically going to use public transport.

PCros wrote: »

You also made a point that Woodies is outside the core town.... so is the Rathbeale road location outside the core location. In fact the Woodies location is ten times easier to access for residents in Malahide, Skerries, Donabate and all other outlying towns.

100% agree. The Woodies location is much more central for many of us who never venture to the Rathbeale Road end of Swords which is a bit of a backwater by comparison.

JRCC

PCros wrote: »

Yes but the HGV traffic will be in the middle of the night as opposed to during the day. That is unfair for local residents.

You also made a point that Woodies is outside the core town.... so is the Rathbeale road location outside the core location. In fact the Woodies location is ten times easier to access for residents in Malahide, Skerries, Donabate and all other outlying towns.

As I said, request that the council condition the deliveries between certain times.

I believe the Woodies site would be unsustainable. What you are advocating by locating it there is a heavy reliance on cars accessing the outlet. Completely unsustainable in planning terms.

I can't say for sure but it would seem to me that Lidl want to tap into the local residents of Swords by locating on the Rathbeale Road.

PCros

Bluetonic wrote: »

There are no deliveries in Balbriggan Lidl during the middle of the night and that is also in a residential area, surrounded by houses on two sides for the record.

Where are you getting the middle of the night deliveries from?

I have a mate who used to work for them and deliveries were mostly done at night time. The deliveries came from a main warehouse in Kildare and every morning there would be new pallets ready to stock.

Thats where I'm getting that from.

PCros

JRCC wrote: »

I believe the Woodies site would be unsustainable. What you are advocating by locating it there is a heavy reliance on cars accessing the outlet. Completely unsustainable in planning terms.

How? Woodies thrived and had a heavy reliance on cars accessing the store.

Dizzyblonde

Bluetonic wrote: »

If the quality of JCs food is so much superior than Lidls as outlined above and thats what the consumer wants then they should have no problem competing, in fact they've no reason to be concerned.

I think you're missing the point. For over 30 years JC's have put the customer first with the result that their regular customers are very loyal. That's why we'd hate to see Lidl go in so close by.

Lux23

I just heard that JC died, very sad to hear that. I hope the store continues to thrive, he always put the customer first and was a really decent man.

Wishbone Ash

Dizzyblonde wrote: »

For over 30 years JC's have put the customer first

Supermarkets are profit making organuisations. There's nothing wrong with that. Profits are put first then customers. No sustainable business could put customers first and run at a loss.

Bluetonic

Dizzyblonde wrote: »

I think you're missing the point. For over 30 years JC's have put the customer first with the result that their regular customers are very loyal. That's why we'd hate to see Lidl go in so close by.

I think your extremely naive with that opinion of JC's.