The Breast Feeding Support Thread

pwurple

Oral Slang wrote: »

egg whites are supposed to be great for nappy rash as is the Doc Morris own blend nappy cream. Anyone ever tried breast milk on it? I haven't, but I've heard it can help heal it too & as it works on so many other things, it could be worth a shot.

I really wouldn't put any type of food on a nappy nash. If it's fungal like thrush you would be making it far worse by providing a food source.

Blueskye

I was talking to a good friend who formula fed her children earlier tonight. Her son was a really bad sleeper til about 18 months, she tried everything but he just woke frequently at night and took forever to settle. She was always exhausted. I commented how tired I have been as my twins still wake several times at night (15 weeks old) although I also commented that they are improving all the time and as a result I've felt much better the past 2 weeks. After all her problems with her son she still said that once I switch to formula my boys will likely sleep better!!! I just don't get it. Why do people think formula is the answer?!!! It can often cause other problems. Plus I don't fancy sterilising bottles for 2 babies.

holding

You know people who are dead against breastfeeding (I'm talking about other new moms here) - is there any point trying to talk to them at all?? I have 2 friends who are pregnant at the moment. One actually thinks that formula is healthier. She finds these crazy articles online to back up what she says, Daily Mail type stuff that claims there's no iron in breast milk etc. The other friend is on baby 3, and just blanks out the whole health thing because breastfeeding hurt her the first time she tried it. Both of them are really defensive about it, and both tried for just a short while on their first before deciding it was all too sore/ hard/ depressing, and switching to formula - I think the whole defensiveness thing is because they feel guilty. NB they didn't have the right support at all and would have probably (I think) kept going if they had.

Anyway, am I wrong to butt in, should I leave just well alone? I suppose I feel like I know which are the good resources and the bad resources now, I feel like I should pass them on? I kind of feel like they think I would be 'pre judging' them for going down the formula route again though. Any thoughts.

Das Kitty

Leave them alone.

They don't want to breastfeed and are probably looking for backup for their decisions online.

TBH, if someone doesn't want to try breastfeeding I think it should be entirely up to them. In my opinion the best way to be an ambassador for breastfeeding is to do it and let people ask questions and answer them honestly.

holding

Thanks, will try this. It's very frustrating! But none of my biz. The one in particular who questions whether I'm really doing the best for my baby by breastfeeding him!

pwurple

holding wrote: »

I think the whole defensiveness thing is because they feel guilty.

You're probably right here, but if it didn't work out, it didn't work out. I would leave them to it.

I'm going to give it another go next time, but if I can't get it going at the start, or for whatever reason end up stopping earlier than planned, I think someone butting in harping on about it being healthier would be quite annoying and even distressing if I'm all hormonal and feeling like a failure. I really don't want to discuss the ins and outs (literally) of the physical state of my nipples, or my motivation with people, it's really none of their business.

aknitter

I'd leave well enough alone aswell but don't take any crap if they start questioning your decisions, we are all just muddling along trying to do our best and what I think of as the best for my children, you may not agree with. But the decision is the parents and its so rude to force your opinions on anyone.

lazygal

I breastfed, but came very close to quitting in the early days. I'm not one for asking for loads of help and I hate unsolicited help, so someone coming at me full of a lecture on the benefits of it would have been like a red rag to a bull. I knew all the benefits, but nothing could have prepared me for how difficult it was in reality. I found recovery from a c section 10 times easier and this time i'm not caring too much about whether i need another section, I'm gearing myself up for the breastfeeding.

I find myself becoming less and less judgmental of a lot of parenting styles and approaches the more I deal with my child. Most parents want to do their best and are just chugging along, dealing with the issues as they arise. Unless someone is genuinely looking for help (and not just reassurance) I keep my mouth shut.

holding

Just to be clear, the full extent of me talking to them would be a short email with links to LLL, the wonder weeks, kellymom & a note on how difficult I found it but how it got much easier. No crazy lectures or PowerPoint displays! Something along the lines of what I wish someone had told me when I was starting out.

Edit- plan on leaving them to it tho after reading the replies here

lazygal

holding wrote: »

Just to be clear, the full extent of me talking to them would be a short email with links to LLL, the wonder weeks, kellymom & a note on how difficult I found it but how it got much easier. No crazy lectures or PowerPoint displays! Something along the lines of what I wish someone had told me when I was starting out.

I actually wouldn't even appreciate that. I found a lot of the online resources weren't particularly helpful to my personal situation when I ended up doing what was best for us (combination feeding). I found when I checked this out, it was as if you might as well not bother breastfeeding at all if you're going to give formula, your supply would suffer and there'd be nipple confusion. I did appreciate some real mums telling me it would get easier, but I found a lot of the advice on those websites (in particular LLL) far too evangelical about breastfeeding and I think that attitude can be very offputting for some women.

banbhaaifric

I agree it's probably pointless to try to change their minds about the whole thing, but I sure as hell wouldn't put up with either of them saying it's not best for both you and the baby.

Tbh I'm increasingly frustrated with the mealy mouthed pussy footing that goes on around mothers who just flat out refuse to try breastfeeding. Even at our antenatal classes the midwife who was all for trying for a natural birth (for all the medically beneficial reasons for both mother and baby), wouldn't talk about the health benefits of breastfeeding for both mother and baby.

I understand that there are women out there for whom breastfeeding simply doesn't work, but I believe they are in a tiny minority. For the women who try and give up early on - I dunno? Are their expectations wrong? Are too many people telling them to try formula? Why is there so much misinformation out there? Why is breastfeeding the weird choice and not formula?

I suppose I do think that people should feel guilty if they don't give breastfeeding a go. And by people I don't just mean the mothers, I mean their mothers too who wont support their daughters and grandchildren, husbands/partners who wont do everything they can to help during those first exhausting weeks, families and friends who make them feel weird.

Sorry this is such a rant but I'm so frustrated that we can't just say breastfeeding is infinitely superior to formula feeding.

lazygal

You can say it, but its more likely to get people's backs up than bring them around to giving it a try. I had no idea how hard it was. I had great support from my husband who was home with me to cook and do nappy changes, my mum breastfed as did my mother in law, and I was determined to do it. Nothing could have prepared me for it, no matter what the benefits were, at 1am with no sleep and another marathon feed you're on your own if you have the boobs.

I know women who tried it, didn't have half the problems I did, and hated it so they quit. I don't think they're to be judged, nor does making people feel guilty about choosing formula do anyone any favours.

icescreamqueen

The amount of people who want to give advice and their two cent on just about everything is unbelievable. The latest one was a cousin of my Mum's who I get on very well with but she said that my baby has a 'petted pout'. She said my baby has had it since day one and that I shouldn't spoil her. Emm so what am I to do when my baby cries, ignore her! Honestly, I was warned I would get all this but I need to learn to smile sweetly and ignore it pretty soon or I'll be making lots of enemies 8-/

highly1111

banbhaaifric wrote: »

Sorry this is such a rant but I'm so frustrated that we can't just say breastfeeding is infinitely superior to formula feeding.

Whilst this is true, a happier mum is infinitely superior to an unhappy mum!

What women need to do is respect each other's decisions and support each other. BF-ing is the first in a long series of oneup(wo)manship that women do the make them feel better - did you have a section or natural birth? did you BF or not? when did you introduce solids? do you cook everything or buy pouches? is everything organic? what school? what age? what did little johnnie get in the leaving cert and so it goes on and on and on and on and on.....

I would never ever butt in on someone's decision on how they fed/feed their baby. Their baby, their body, their decision. And I'm a breastfeeding mum.

aknitter

I agree with a lot of the posts here (I am breastfeeding my 3rd) and its the whole 'holier than thou' attitude that gets my back up too (from breastfeeding mums inparticular). For me, the guilt is a killer, as I am breastfeeding- am I giving my other kids the attention they need? I know my day would be easier to arrange feeding every 4 hours as opposed to 2. Did I make the wrong decision last time to do combination feed? We've all met the bitch who is going one better than you - you made your own puree? Well she grows her own food.
You never know whats going on behind someone else's decision and you sticking your oar in could just be making their day a little worse.

banbhaaifric

But I'm not talking about butting in highly1111 - I'm wondering how we have got to the place where formula feeding is the natural choice, not breastfeeding. Why are so many women not happy breastfeeding and what can be done to change that?

I agree a happy mum and baby is the best thing - but why lie and say that feeding with formula is just as good?

And I guess I'm sad that you lump breasfeeding in with the kind of competitive parenting nonsense that goes on - although if it spurred women on to try it, it might be a good thing

lazygal

banbhaaifric wrote: »

But I'm not talking about butting in highly1111 - I'm wondering how we have got to the place where formula feeding is the natural choice, not breastfeeding. Why are so many women not happy breastfeeding and what can be done to change that?

I agree a happy mum and baby is the best thing - but why lie and say that feeding with formula is just as good?

And I guess I'm sad that you lump breasfeeding in with the kind of competitive parenting nonsense that goes on - although if it spurred women on to try it, it might be a good thing

I was not happy breastfeeding because, to excuse my french, it was a ****ing pain in the ass. Constant sitting under a baby, sore nipples, no sleep and a constant worry that by giving formula I was somehow taking the easy road. And as I said I had support. I was around women who'd fed their children. It was the normal choice for me and my baby. And none of the resources like LLL helped. I know women who were totally put off LLL meetings because once they said they combo fed it was as though they might as well give up altogether. Telling a woman she should feel guilty about something they don't want to do - how is that helpful at all? Why not acknowledge that there are women who don't like breastfeeding, the same way there are parents who don't like baby led weaning, or using cloth nappies or slings?

Feeding your child is one part of parenting, and passing comments like women should feel guilty if they don't try breastfeeding is exactly what gets women riled up.

banbhaaifric

Lazygal, do you really think it's ok to not even try?

And breastfeeding can be hard at the start, some people seem to take to it naturally and for others it's a struggle, but eventually it does get easier, and there is no denying that it is best for both mother and baby.

I just think we have gone too far in making formula feeding the norm, and that we play down the benefits of breastfeeding to make women who don't feel better. I am no bfing evangelist, but I think we do women and babies a disservice when we say 'oh if it doesn't work out don't worry about packing it in after a couple of days', or worse still say 'don't bother bfing, formula is just as good'.

The second is just a lie. And maybe for the first we should let women know that the first few weeks can be hard so that they don't become disheartened and think that it's not working out for them?

And tbh I don't think you can compare breastfeeding with cloth nappies or slings -

lazygal

I still don't think its okay to make women feel guilty about their choices (and generally its women who do decide on breastfeeding) because in terms of health it might be better. Do you honestly think a campaign on breastfeeding with the message that if you don't even try it you should feel guilty will work?

Breastfeeding is most definitely not always best for mother and baby if its to the detriment of other aspects of parenting. Feeding your baby is one element of being a parent. I'm in online private mums groups and have read posts from women at the end of their tether in terms of sanity and energy because of a struggle to breastfeed. They've had lactation consultants out (something not everyone can afford), they've been to the PHN, they've been to LLL. But its not working out, despite the hard work. I don't want to make those women feel guilty, I want them to enjoy being a mum and time with the babies. There are women posting at 4 am, crying their eyes out because it just isn't working and despite support from partners and all the rest, they can't cope with it. That is not best for anyone.


Should I feel guilty about combination feeding? Should I feel guilty that this time around I plan on doing what's best for me and my baby, and if that involves combination feeding again, so be it?

I was told breastfeeding was hard. But it wasn't until I was doing it that the reality hits. I was probably a bit judgmental about women who gave it a go and gave up, or didn't 'bother' trying it, before I had my first child. Now I don't care how others feed their babies, because at the end of the day, if you want to breastfeed, only you can do it. And some women don't want to. And that's fine by me. I'd rather a woman bonding well with the child and not suffering the intense guilt I've seen from some women because they dread the next feed.

You know people who are dead against running - is there any point trying to talk to them at all??
I have 2 friends who are buying runners at the moment. One actually thinks that Curves is healthier. She finds these crazy articles online to back up what she says, Daily Mail type stuff that claims there's no point in running etc.
The other friend is on her third pair of runners and just blanks out the whole health thing because running hurt her the first time she tried it. Both of them are really defensive about it, and both tried for just a short before deciding it was all too sore/ hard/ depressing, and switching to Curves - I think the whole defensiveness thing is because they feel guilty. NB they didn't have the right support at all and would have probably (I think) kept going if they had.

Anyway, am I wrong to butt in, should I leave just well alone? I suppose I feel like I know which are the good resources and the bad resources now, I feel like I should pass them on? I kind of feel like they think I would be 'pre judging' them for going down the Curves route again though. Any thoughts.





The altered post above shows just why you should do and say nothing.
It is not your business how they choose to feed their children.
If a marathon runner starting mailing me links about support groups and the benefits of long distance running I'd think they were slightly obsessed.
It's great for your health and a wise choice to run and the benefits are amazing but I'm know that.
I'm not stupid. I know the facts.

Fact is I hated it and don't want to do it.

holding

Thanks FavouriteSlave. I think the difference here is that neither of my friends chose formula at the start. They both chose breastfeeding, and began to do it. They ran into problems because they didn't know where to go for support, either online or locally (I wasn't a mum at the time and hadn't a clue how to support them). It is since they gave up that they have become dead against it. Hence why I thought passing on stuff that I had found helpful might be good (but I have no plans to do that now because I'd rather keep my friends than lose them over offending them, after reading the replies here).

banbhaaifric

But that is my point exactly - we pussyfoot around it so much that we don't give women proper information before they start, and then if or when they struggle, they are left feeling inadequate because it isn't coming 'naturally'. Maybe we are so scared that if we tell women what it can really be like, they won't even bother trying.

I remember having to put my daughter in her moses basket and leave the room because I was so filled with rage and frustration and exhaustion I honestly didn't know what I was going to do. Getting feeding established was a hard road and maybe if more women knew that fewer women would give it up.

And I'm not talking about walking around pointing at women who are bottle feeding and shouting 'You should feel guilty!', what I am saying is we should stop downplaying the benefits of breastfeeding.

holding

Banbhaifric, I for one definitely didn't know how hard it would be, and I read the What to Expect When You're Expecting book probably like every new expectant mum. Prior to actually starting feeding (and then googling like crazy when it was ridiculously painful and hard, and that's how I found this thread in the first place!) I had never ever heard that breastfeeding was difficult, or something that had to be learned. All I knew was that 'some women can't' and they use formula, so I was fully prepared to be one of those women. I really give credit to this thread (and to kellymom etc) for saving our breastfeeding relationship. There was nowhere else I had ever heard about wonder weeks etc.

pwurple

banbhaaifric wrote: »

What I am saying is we should stop downplaying the benefits of breastfeeding.

Hand on heart, I really don't think the benefits of breastfeeding are ever downplayed.

Really.

I'm a big fan, but the complete and utter craptrap I've heard about breastfeeding increasing IQ, and breastfeeding providing cancer immunity really do sweet f a to increase rates.

There are plenty of actual benefits, and they are all over the literature the hospital gives you... very clear if you ever do any research or read any baby book, and frankly, obvious to anyone with even half a brain. Even the formula companies are forced to say breastfeeding is better.

Where in the name of god is there any evidence that anyone is downplaying the benefits?


Telling women they didn't try hard enough will do much more harm than good.

Blueskye

pwurple wrote: »

Hand on heart, I really don't think the benefits of breastfeeding are ever downplayed.

Really.

I'm a big fan, but the complete and utter craptrap I've heard about breastfeeding increasing IQ, and breastfeeding providing cancer immunity really do sweet f a to increase rates.

There are plenty of actual benefits, and they are all over the literature the hospital gives you... very clear if you ever do any research or read any baby book, and frankly, obvious to anyone with even half a brain. Even the formula companies are forced to say breastfeeding is better.

Where in the name of god is there any evidence that anyone is downplaying the benefits?


Telling women they didn't try hard enough will do much more harm than good.

Not everyone reads baby books. At my antenatal class several if the women were not aware of the benefits of bf and how many women don't bother attending antenatal classes.

How Strange

I'm kind of fed up hearing about the amazing benefits of breastfeeding.

Breastfeeding is the biologically normal way to feed an infant therefore there should be no benefits. We should be hearing about the disadvantages of formula feeding and I don't mean a lower IQ. I think that's one of the most ridiculous ones I've ever heard.

We should be hearing the risks to the infant if you don't breastfeed instead of the benefits if you do. When we talk about the benefits of breastfeeding we're really saying fornula is just fine but hey if you want to go the extra mile give breastfeeding a go. I think that's disingenuous.

I really think if breastfeeding is ever to become the normal way to feed an infant in this country then everything needs to change. We need to stop the preachy bull**** ante natal campaign, we need proper training for all hcps, we need to value breastmilk above formula in all cases so have a proper milk bank for donations for premmies and mothers who are having initial problems. We also need to get the pharma reps out of the hospitals and healthcare centres so no seminars, information days, free gifts etc etc. That will never happen of course as there's a huge globalised industry determined to convince everyone that formula is good enough and anything else is a bonus.

In countries where the governments are really interested in promoting breastfeeding and the resources are put in place to achieve it there is only a tiny percentage of women who can't breastfeed. Most women do so successfully.

Also I don't really discuss breastfeeding with other mums or mums to be unless I think they're interested. I'll always give my support to a new mum if she needs it but if I see she really doesn't want to continue then I take a step back and leave her be.

missis aggie

Well said How Strange!! I never discuss breastfeeding as I think its normal way of feeding a baby also I couldn't care less if someone choose not to. I just wish that people understand that formula is not the answer to all breastfeeding issues ( sleeping, time alone for mum etc). As I'm not telling anyone " ah you should give him a boob" as answer to any bottle feeding problems. Also that I'm not a hippy or martyr

aknitter

Poor Tesco delivery guy, called with the shopping, though it was my sister, answered the door with a baby latched to me!

MurdyWurdy

aknitter wrote: »

Poor Tesco delivery guy, called with the shopping, though it was my sister, answered the door with a baby latched to me!

Brilliant!! I almost did that the other day but got the boob away in time!

How Strange

aknitter i love it!