The Breast Feeding Support Thread

lynski

How Strange wrote: »

Wow, the 15th March was our absolute worst breastfeeding day and I knew the next day if we'd survived that day and night from hell we'd keep going. It's amazing to read back on that post because he's almost 1 now (in 2 weeks yay!) and down to 1 feed at bedtime and I'm now entering extended breastfeeding territory as I'll keep that 1 feed up for as long as he wants it or until 4 years of age whichever comes first

lol!
i looked back too and march 1st was my bad day! looks like i found laid back nursing soon after and we have had a hick-up since.
well except for the first teeth and little bites, but not too bad.
wow cant believe how fast that turned around and now it is so easy.

liliq

Awh wow, can't believe you're little man is nearly 1 How Strange!

Think he was around 5 or 6 months when I met him... that's gone so quickly!

Did you always plan on extended breastfeeding, if you don't mind me asking? It was something I never considered before my baby arrived, but the more I think about it the more I think why not!
Especially if, like yourself, it's down to one feed a day. Lovely to have an extra excuse for some cuddle time

whitelightrider

Hi folks,
Our little lady is 3 days old and my wife ism breast feeding. She seems to be wanting to feed constantly!! Only problem is that she won't go into the Moses basket. Just riggles around constantly.
I'm just wondering if that's normal?
Also I'm wondering if our little one has wind and what's the best way to get her wind up?

How Strange

liliq yes he was only 5 months then time really is flying! When he was born I thought I'd breastfeed for a couple of weeks then 6 weeks then 3 months but it got so easy and convenient I never thought of stopping and switching to formula. When I was going back to work he was 7 months and I read that 3-4 feeds per 24 hours was nutritionally enough so here we are! I think it was good for me that I never had any plans except to give breastfeeding a go.

Anniebell

Hi ladies,
Thank god I found this thread. Another mental night feeding my three week old little man. He doesn't sleep! I need matchsticks for my eyes today!

How Strange

whitelightrider a few if us replied to your posts over on pregnancy but just to say yes feeding constantly is normal. It doesn't mean she's hungry and your wife hasn't enough milk; it's called cluster feeding and most newborns do it, usually in the evening and at night, and it's your baby's way of telling your wife's body to produce milk.

Your daughter would rather be held all the time especially by your wife as she knows her smell, the sound of her voice and her heart beat. We can only imagine what a security and comfort that must be for a little baby who is in this new cold world full of noise. You should hold her too and do lots of skin to skin which is taking her clothes off and putting her inside your shirt. She knows your voice too so it will be very comforting for her. If you want to put her in the Moses basket swaddle her tightly in a blanket to make her feel warm and secure.

For the wind I'd recommend the rugby hold which is holding her sideways against your tummy with her facing outwards and with your left hand going down her tummy with your hand on her leg. Her back should press against your tummy. Walk around and gently swing her from left to right. It's quite a soothing hold as you've got full contact with her all the time.

How Strange

Anniebell it can be tough going at the start but I'd compare the first six weeks to building a really strong foundation. You do all the hardwork then and by degrees it gets easier until one day, around 3-4 months, you realise it's so easy and convenient that you couldn't imagine feeding any other way.

I tell my friends who are new mothers just to stick with it until 6 weeks because you turn a big corner around then and you start to get rewards for all the hardwork.

lynski

how strange i agree, 6 wks is a major turning point.
some of the mantras that are helpful are never give up on a bad day and for every breastfeeding problem, there is a breastfeeding solution.
I know the policy is not to direct posters to other sites, but perhaps on this occasion it would be appropriate to post a collection of sites useful to parents?

annamcmahon

How Strange. Thanks for your post about the rugby hold for winding. I must remember that one for April. Due my second then and had oversupply and fast letdown at the beginning with my first which caused a lot of wind problems for her. Goes to show that even after breastfeeding for a year I can still learn something really useful.

I'm also in the extended breastfeeder camp. My daughter is 1 on Sunday and I've no intention of weaning her. Going to let her self-wean even though it means I'll probably be feeding 2 come April. God if you told that this time last year and have said you were crazy.

whitelightrider

Well just at the end of another strange night. Got as far as 3am before finally lifting her from the crib and bringing her onto my chest. She slept there for almost 3 hours but just won't settle in the Moses basket

Anniebell

whitelightrider wrote: »

Well just at the end of another strange night. Got as far as 3am before finally lifting her from the crib and bringing her onto my chest. She slept there for almost 3 hours but just won't settle in the Moses basket

How old is your baby? I've a 3 week old boy who's the exact same! Hates the Moses basket so sleeps on me most nights.

Honestly just go with it, they're tiny for such a short time & they want to be close to their parents right now & they hear & feel your heartbeat which makes them feel safe.

What they do tonight they mightn't do tomorrow night. My little man slept 5 hours in his basket the night before last & tonight has fed every 2 hours & slept on my chest or beside me in the bed! Whatever helps us get more sleep lol

Edited: sorry just saw your baby's not even a week old. Definitely just go with baby, she's only brand new & hasn't a clue where she is! I was the same as you in the beginning worrying about not getting him to sleep in the Moses basket but then I look at my 4 year old & can't remember her being as tiny.

Don't mean to preach. I'm sleep deprived too!

lynski

annie is right, just go with. my 11mth old slept most of last night in his cot, but as a tiny newborn would sleep mostly with me.
they will grow out of it.
here is a great article:

The Normal Newborn and Why Breastmilk is Not Just Food

What is a normal, term human infant supposed to do?

First of all, a human baby is supposed to be born vaginally. Yes, I know that doesn't always happen, but we're just going to talk ideal, normal for now. We are supposed to be born vaginally because we need good bacteria. Human babies are sterile, without bacteria, at birth. It's no accident that we are born near the anus, an area that has lots of bacteria, most of which are good and necessary for normal gut health and development of the immune system. And the bacteria that are there are mom's bacteria, bacteria that she can provide antibodies against if the bacteria there aren't nice.

Then the baby is born and is supposed to go to mom. Right to her chest. The chest, right in between the breasts is the natural habitat of the newborn baby. (Fun fact: our cardiac output, how much blood we circulate in a given minute, is distributed to places that are important. Lots goes to the kidney every minute, like 10% or so, and 20% goes to your brain. In a new mom, 23% goes to her chest- more than her brain. The body thinks that place is important!)

That chest area gives heat. The baby has been using mom's body for temperature regulation for ages. Why would they stop? With all that blood flow, it's going to be warm. The baby can use mom to get warm. When I was in my residency, we would put a cold baby "under the warmer" which meant a heater thingy next to mom. Now, as I have matured, if a baby is "under the warmer," the kid is under mom. I wouldn't like that. I like the kids on top of mom, snuggled.

Now we have a brand new baby on the warmer. That child is not hungry. Bringing a hungry baby into the world is a bad plan. And really, if they were hungry, can you please explain to me why my kids sucked the life force out of me in those last few weeks of pregnancy? They better have been getting food, or well, that would have been annoying and painful for nothing.

Every species has instinctual behaviors that allow the little ones to grow up to be big ones and keep the species going. Our kids are born into the world needing protection. Protection from disease and from predators. Yes, predators. Our kids don't know they've been born into a loving family in the 21st century- for all they know it's the 2nd century and they are in a cave surrounded by tigers. Our instinctive behaviors as baby humans need to help us stay protected. Babies get both disease protection and tiger protection from being on mom's chest. Presumably, we gave the baby some good bacteria when they arrived through the birth canal. That's the first step in disease protection. The next step is getting colostrum.

A newborn baby on mom's chest will pick their head up, lick their hands, maybe nuzzle mom, lick their hands and start to slide towards the breast. The kids have a preference for contrasts between light and dark, and for circles over other shapes. Think about that...there's a dark circle not too far away.

Mom's sweat smells like amniotic fluid, and that smell is on the child's hands (because there's been no bath yet!) and the baby uses that taste on their hand to follow mom's smell. The secretions coming from the glands on the areola (that dark circle) smell familiar too and help the baby get to the breast to get the colostrum which is going to feed the good bacteria and keep them protected from infection. The kids can attach by themselves. Watch for yourself! And if you just need colostrum to feed bacteria and not yourself, well, there doesn't have to be much. And there isn't because the kids aren't hungry and because Breastmilk is not food!

We're talking normal babies. Breastfeeding is normal. It's what babies are hardwired to do. 2009 or 209, the kids would all do the same thing: try to find the breast. Breastfeeding isn't special sauce, a leg up or a magic potion. It's not "best. " It's normal. Just normal. Designed for the needs of a vulnerable human infant. And nothing else designed to replace it is normal.

Colostrum also activates things in the baby's gut that then goes on to make the thymus grow. The thymus is part of the immune system. Growing your thymus is important. Breastmilk= big thymus, good immune system. Colostrum also has a bunch of something called Secretory Immunoglobulin A (SIgA). SIgA is made in the first few days of life and is infection protection specifically from mom. Cells in mom's gut watch what's coming through and if there's an infectious cell, a special cell in mom's gut called a plasma cell heads to the breast and helps the breast make SIgA in the milk to protect the baby. If mom and baby are together, like on mom's chest, then the baby is protected from what the two of them may be exposed to. Babies should be with mom.

And the tigers. What about them? Define "tiger" however you want. But if you are baby with no skills in self-protection, staying with mom, having a grasp reflex, and a startle reflex that helps you grab onto your mom, especially if she's hairy, makes sense. Babies know the difference between a bassinette and a human chest. When infants are separated from their mothers, they have a "despair- withdrawal" response. The despair part comes when they alone, separated. The kids are vocally expressing their desire not to be tiger food. When they are picked up, they stop crying. They are protected, warm and safe. If that despair cry is not answered, they withdraw. They get cold, have massive amounts of stress hormones released, drop their heart rate and get quiet. That's not a good baby. That's one who, well, is beyond despair. Normal babies want to be held, all the time.

And when do tigers hunt? At night. It makes no sense at all for our kids to sleep at night. They may be eaten. There's nothing really all that great about kids sleeping through the night. They should wake up and find their body guard. Daytime, well, not so many threats. They sleep better during the day. (Think about our response to our tigers-- sleep problems are a huge part of stress, depression, anxiety).

I go on and on about sleep on this site, so maybe I'll gloss over it here. But everybody sleeps with their kids- whether they choose to or not and whether they admit to it or not. It's silly of us as healthcare providers to say "don't sleep with your baby" because we all do it. Sometimes accidentally. Sometimes intentionally. The kids are snuggly, it feels right and you are tired. So, normal babies breastfeed, stay at the breast, want to be held and sleep better when they are with their parents. Seems normal to me. But there is a difference between a normal baby and one that isn't. Safe sleep means that we are sober, in bed and not a couch or a recliner, breastfeeding, not smoking...being normal. If the circumstances are not normal, then sleeping with the baby is not safe.

That chest -to -chest contact is also brain development. Our kids had as many brain cells as they were ever going to have at 28 weeks of gestation. It's a jungle of waiting -to-be- connected cells. What we do as humans is create too much and then get rid of what we aren't using. We have like 8 nipples, a tail and webbed hands in the womb. If all goes well, we don't have those at birth. Create too much- get rid of what you aren't using. So, as you are snuggling, your child is hooking up happy brain cells and hopefully getting rid of the "eeeek" brain cells. Breastfeeding, skin-to-skin, is brain wiring. Not food.

Why go on and on about this? Because more and more mothers are choosing to breastfeed. But most women don't believe that the body that created that beautiful baby is capable of feeding that same child and we are supplementing more and more with infant formulas designed to be food. Why don't we trust our bodies post-partum? I don't know. But I hear over and over that the formula is because "I am just not satisfying him." Of course you are. Babies don't need to "eat" all the time- they need to be with you all the time- that's the ultimate satisfaction.

A baby at the breast is getting their immune system developed, activating their thymus, staying warm, feeling safe from predators, having normal sleep patterns and wiring their brain, and (oh by the way) getting some food in the process. They are not "hungry" --they are obeying instinct. The instinct that allows us to survive and make more of us.

back to www.drjen4kids.com

ranted on July 31, 2010

Dr. Jenny Thomas - Lakeshore Medical Clinic ( Breastfeeding Medicine).

lynski

annamcmahon wrote: »

How Strange. Thanks for your post about the rugby hold for winding. I must remember that one for April. Due my second then and had oversupply and fast letdown at the beginning with my first which caused a lot of wind problems for her. Goes to show that even after breastfeeding for a year I can still learn something really useful.

I'm also in the extended breastfeeder camp. My daughter is 1 on Sunday and I've no intention of weaning her. Going to let her self-wean even though it means I'll probably be feeding 2 come April. God if you told that this time last year and have said you were crazy.

anna congrats!
My son is 11 mths so i am getting there - there should be a teeshirt!
Recently my 3 yr old who self weaned at 6mths has decided she wants to nurse sometimes so i am a sometimes tandem feeder!

lynski

annamcmahon wrote: »

How Strange. Thanks for your post about the rugby hold for winding. I must remember that one for April. Due my second then and had oversupply and fast letdown at the beginning with my first which caused a lot of wind problems for her. Goes to show that even after breastfeeding for a year I can still learn something really useful.

I'm also in the extended breastfeeder camp. My daughter is 1 on Sunday and I've no intention of weaning her. Going to let her self-wean even though it means I'll probably be feeding 2 come April. God if you told that this time last year and have said you were crazy.

anna congrats!
My son is 11 mths so i am getting there - there should be a teeshirt!
Recently my 3 yr old who self weaned at 6mths has decided she wants to nurse sometimes so i am a sometimes tandem feeder!

Lola92

lynski wrote: »

anna congrats!
My son is 11 mths so i am getting there - there should be a teeshirt!
Recently my 3 yr old who self weaned at 6mths has decided she wants to nurse sometimes so i am a sometimes tandem feeder!

Lynski I loved that article, I read it somewhere (possibly here!) when my daughter was only a few weeks old and it made so much sense! She is 13 months old now and self weaned around 5 1/2 months like your daughter - I wish she had kept it up!

whitelightrider

Anniebell wrote: »

How old is your baby? I've a 3 week old boy who's the exact same! Hates the Moses basket so sleeps on me most nights.

Honestly just go with it, they're tiny for such a short time & they want to be close to their parents right now & they hear & feel your heartbeat which makes them feel safe.

What they do tonight they mightn't do tomorrow night. My little man slept 5 hours in his basket the night before last & tonight has fed every 2 hours & slept on my chest or beside me in the bed! Whatever helps us get more sleep lol

Edited: sorry just saw your baby's not even a week old. Definitely just go with baby, she's only brand new & hasn't a clue where she is! I was the same as you in the beginning worrying about not getting him to sleep in the Moses basket but then I look at my 4 year old & can't remember her being as tiny.

Don't mean to preach. I'm sleep deprived too!

Hey Annie, its funny because my little lady slept for 2 hours in the moses basket last night and then got up to feed. She wouldnt go down for us again so I put her on my chest and she slept for 3 hours!!
Im just tired of people telling me that you shouldnt do this as its a bad habit, etc, etc. Im not going to leave her crying in her basket at 6 days old so Im going to take your advice and just go with it.

liliq

I adored when my little man slept on my chest! It's the cosiest thing!
Everyone told me I was spoiling him and that he'd never sleep himself... bull!
He's stilly only 17 weeks, but he's quite happy to be put in his cot (awake or asleep) by 10:30pm at the latest... little night light projector on, he might babbly away to it for a few mins, and then he's aleep.
Following his lead is working for me in every way at the moment, so unless it's causing issues Im going to keep doing it!

whitelightrider

liliq wrote: »

I adored when my little man slept on my chest! It's the cosiest thing!
Everyone told me I was spoiling him and that he'd never sleep himself... bull!
He's stilly only 17 weeks, but he's quite happy to be put in his cot (awake or asleep) by 10:30pm at the latest... little night light projector on, he might babbly away to it for a few mins, and then he's aleep.
Following his lead is working for me in every way at the moment, so unless it's causing issues Im going to keep doing it!

Exactly. I was against breast feeding at the start because I guess I was worried about being left out as the bond between mother and daughter would be so much stronger. Im glad I kept my mouth shut because I wouldnt have it any other way now. My wife is an amazing mother and my daughter is just amazing. And its only been 6 days. Having her sleep on my chest is the most precious thing Ive ever felt and theres no way Im giving that up.

How Strange

whitelightrider the only bad habit you can have as new parents is the bad habit of listening to other peoples comments, opinions and advice on parenting. Do things your own way.

annamcmahon

that's great whitelightrider.

whitelightrider

Folks have to say I'd be lost without this forum! We're going to keep going with what we are doing and see what happens. Right now my little lady is happy.
Just a quick question. Have any of you looked at bouncers? Just looking online and wondering which ones to go for.

liliq

We have a rocker that was given to us as a gift. I'd be lost without it to be honest... there's a bar that goes across the top that we can put toys etc on so that little man is entertained.
I wouldn't get a tap done if I didn't have it, and it's light enough so I can move it around the house without any hassle... I mostly have it between the sitting room and the kitchen.
We didn't really use it until he was about 4 weeks though- he spent most of the time in his moses basket, my bed, or my/ my partners chest until then!

whitelightrider

liliq wrote: »

We have a rocker that was given to us as a gift. I'd be lost without it to be honest... there's a bar that goes across the top that we can put toys etc on so that little man is entertained.
I wouldn't get a tap done if I didn't have it, and it's light enough so I can move it around the house without any hassle... I mostly have it between the sitting room and the kitchen.
We didn't really use it until he was about 4 weeks though- he spent most of the time in his moses basket, my bed, or my/ my partners chest until then!

Bit like us so!, might hold off for another few weeks so.

Oh and last one, for tonight at least! Has anyone used grobags for newborns?

liliq

Oh... we got a little bouncer today as well for when my mam is minding him when I go back to work...! Got it on sale in Smyths

We didn't use a grobag until he went into his cot when he was 9 weeks old. He was a big baby, so was quite snug in the moses basket. The cot is a good bit bigger though, and the only place it fits in the bedroom is beside the window which is a bit draughty and he kicks off the blankets, so grobag has been the way to go! Love them

annamcmahon

We were given a bouncer by our next door neighbours and found it brilliant for getting things done. It was a vibrating one that played music and had lights. To be honest she ignored the lights and music. I'm going to get a Baby Bjorn one for this baby. They are expensive but fold flat and review have said that kids are happy in them for much longer.

I put her into sleepbags from 4 weeks when she moved into her basket fulltime. Now at 1 she's still in them. I've used lots of brands and found them all great. Before that she looked like she'd fall into it, if that makes sense, so we swaddled her with cellular blankets.

How Strange

We had a baby bjorn for our son and he never took to it. When he started crèche they had a swing chair and he'd sit in it all day. It just depends on the baby as I've seen other babies who loved the baby bjorn.

nicowa

So Rebecca was 3 weeks old yesterday! And I have to say, after my initial "whoo-hoo, breastfeeding!" thing wore off I found it increasingly difficult. The pain! oooh the pain! I bought a set of nipple sheilds but didn't know what to do with them being honest. Are they meant to be that big?

Spent one night feeding her and crying. Bawled my eyes out when himself tried to leave for work - so much so that I gave myself a nosebleed. He did eventually go to work after I calmed down enough to suggest that I buy some formula.

I'd been wanting to suggest it for a few days (this was on Thursday) but the Irish Mammy in me kept stopping me. Nearly cried again as I was buying it (what is it with the guilt thing?) and nearly killed him when he suggested waiting til Saturday as he 3 other kids were lactose intolerent as babies and she might be too and it would be better to deal with the side affects on the weekend when we were both there.

He gave her a bottle on Friday evening and she took it so easily! And tell me, why is it she'll make eye contact when bottle feeding but not when breast feeding? I have to say, the eye contact would have made the initial bonding experience much easier.

So we've swapped between bottle and breast for the last few days now so my nipples have had a chance to heal and I've had a chance to rest. So now I kind of want to go back to breastfeeding solely. But it is really handy to be able to let him do a feed - and he loves it! He's such a sap when it comes to his kids. So I don't want to take it off him. He'd let me, he'll back me up on whatever feeding habit I want to stick with.

At the moment there's a cold running through the house - stepson first, then himself and I've been feeling it a bit too - so I want to support her immune system as much as possible. And I find she's much more windy and gassy than on breast alone and she really struggles with it - possibly the reason she's finding it difficult to sleep.

Sorry for the essay! I've been away for a few days so didn't have to chance to rant about any of this before.

galah

Nicowa, I'm with ya there! I also thought 'breastfeeding, bah, simple' (that's the impression I got from a lot of people who did it (who seem to have a very selective memory of only the wonderful moments, not the pain, drama, self-doubt kinda moments).

We had the same problems - nipples bleeding and raw, the first week of bfeeding was agony. PHN suggested the nipple shields, and it was much easier from then on. I think I have a superfast let-down as well, so baby was choking and pulling on the nipple every time, getting really frustrated, making it even more un-fun. With the shields, bfeeding is bliss(er) - was supposed to only use them until the nipples healed enough, but missed the point, and now I cant get him off them. But stopped caring - as long as he gets the breastmilk, I am happy.

However...on top of that, we do give a bottle at night. For some reason, he seems to get very very hungry at night, and I suspect my milk supply decreases in the evenings, and cant sate him - so we started to give him one bottle of formula. It works a treat. I get 4 hours rest to refill, baby gets full and sleeps properly. I was wracked with guilt initially, but started to realise - whatever makes a happy baby and mammy is the best way forward.

No need to have a baby screaming with hunger for hours, mammy in tears that she cant produce enough, everyone totally frustrated, just for the sake of one extra breastfeed (or to make a militant breastfeeding-nazi happy)...screw that. it is also a great bonding opportunity for dad - and he loves giving the bottle. so everyone's happy, really.

Nicowa, you could try to express so dad can give a bottle, if that's important to you both - if you want to go back to exclusively breastfeeding.

annamcmahon

Hi Galah. It sounds like your baby is cluster feeding in the evening to help increase your supply. Most babies feed a lot in the evenings so it seems like there isn't enough milk. I know I thought the same thing because my daughter just never seemed satisfied but in fact I had oversupply. Saying that if the bottle of formula is working for your family you're totally right about giving it. I think that whatever works for each family is the best option.

Nicowa, have you had a lactation specialist check your baby's latch? A lot of nipple problems are caused by a bad latch. If the shields solve the problem though, then that's great.

How Strange

Cluster feeding often seems like the baby is starving and mum has empty breasts so she has no milk. However cluster feeding is your baby's way of getting your body to make more milk. The more the baby feeds off the breast the more milk you make. It's a process of supply and demand.

The first six weeks of breastfeeding are tough going. There are a few growth spurts where the baby will feed constantly for hours in end to stimulate milk production.

If you have a fast letdown then block feeding from the same breast for a few feeds will help so the baby is getting the fatty hind milk and not just lots of watery fore milk. Also hand expressing a little before latching the baby on can help so he/she is not getting the force of the let down.

If you have sore nipples then get the latch checked as sore, bloody or cracked nipples are not normal or part of breastfeeding. Mothers and babies are covered in hospital until 6 weeks and this includes visiting the lactation consultants so make an appointment. The la Leche league and Ciudiu (sp?) are also fantastic free resources.

Once you get up and running with breastfeeding it's great. There's no sterilizing, making up bottles, heating them and it's free!