The Breast Feeding Support Thread

Cat Melodeon · 05-11-2010 1:17pm

ani_mal wrote: »

Hi ladies, thx for feedback. I was just thinking more of someone who was taking lexapro and BF, to see what was the outcome for them. But maybe there is no one here.
I went for something like Zoloft- substitute I guess will see how it will go.

I can't give any personal feedback. A family member suffered PND and was taking antidepressants - I don't know which ones, sorry - and she breastfed until her baby was a year old. She is a nurse, would be careful about what meds etc her children get, if that's any indication. I also have a close friend who was in the same situation, but she stopped breastfeeding very early on. Really, it's what's best for you, OP, it's different for every woman.

Arkmar · 03-12-2010 3:53pm

Hi Guys, this thread is a great idea. I've been sitting at home confused for a few weeks now.

- My baby will be 6 weeks old next Wednesday. I've been exclusively breast feeding for 3 weeks and have introduced bottles slowly since then. I decided that it had become too hard to keep it up for the following reasons - I have a 2 and a half yr old duaghter at home now with me on Maternity Leave and she is demanding my time. My baby was looking to be fed so infrequently it was driving me mad. Sometimes I might only get an hour in between feeding even though he would have spent 15 - 20 mins feeding from the breast. I was so exhausted to do anything around the house during the day because my husband wasn't able to help with the feeding during the night as I never had enough space between feeding during the day to express at night. Everyone is telling me that my son is just a hungry baby because he was 9lb 13 born and that he's not getting enough from me so I started feeling guilty and giving him formula after each breast feed too because he never seemed like he was getting enough. So the day before Yesterday I decided that if I have to give him a bottle anyway, why not just give him a full bottle so that at least I know what he is getting. But 2 days on he is still only feeding about 4 ounces every 2 hrs. If he is going to feed that frequently anyway I'm now thinking that I can give him the breast when I'm at home and bottles when I'm out. Is it too late to go back. Yesterday was the first full day without even expressing and it's half way through today... should I just bite the bullet and try to go back to the breast, or is it even possible to go back now.

Anyone had a similar experience.

implausible · 03-12-2010 4:40pm

Haven't experienced this, but unless you're supply has completely dried up (unlikely after 2 days), it's not too late to go back. You may need to spend the whole day letting him feed as often as he likes to get your supply back up though. The more you let him latch on, the greater your supply. Good luck!

lynski · 03-12-2010 5:07pm

you need to research re-lactation. but in short no t is not too late, it might not be easy, but you could so easily do what you are planning and it is a good idea. get out your breast pump and start to pump after every feed to increase your supply, also to replace formula as much as possible with EBM. You can easily feed your son, mine was smaller but not by much he was 8lbs 10 and grew to 15lbs in 2 months.
http://www.kellymom.com/breastfeeding/index.html

http://www.naturalchildbirth.org/natural/resources/breastfeeding/breastfeeding01.htm

I know this is a contentious issue, but using a soother can help extend time between feedings and make sure he is getting to the hindmilk, it is not about quantity it is about quality. my ds and dd only ever fed for 10/15 mins each feed and both were fine.
Good luck and remember to use this and the 'other' baby sites

Arkmar · 03-12-2010 5:12pm

Thanks for the advice... I've re-latched today and we'll see how it goes. I'm also having a problem with him settling down. I find that he is now spoilt as my mother puts it. He doesn't want to be put down at all, especially not lying down. he might sit in a bouncer for a little while but I think because of the breast feeding he always wants to be in my arms. Have you any ideas on how I can balance breast feeding while not "spoiling" him.

lynski · 03-12-2010 5:16pm

try a sling for awhile?
sorry meant this to be a longer post but lo wanted attention.
it will pass, it i hard, but put him down for longer each time and with a toy or 2,or a black and white book?

implausible · 03-12-2010 5:55pm

lynski wrote: »

I know this is a contentious issue, but using a soother can help extend time between feedings and make sure he is getting to the hindmilk, it is not about quantity it is about quality.

+1. The soother worked brilliantly for us. My wee man was waking in the middle of the night, I'd put him on the boob and he'd fall asleep! I started to pop the 'dodie' into his mouth and he'd go straight back. Obviously, if he was genuinely hungry, this didn't work, but the vast majority of the time it did - he was just after some comfort. It was also a lifesaver if I was trying to get something done around the house and it definitely got him feeding more efficiently.

Cat Melodeon · 04-12-2010 5:26pm

Hiya Arkmar, I'm with the others - a sling and a dodie are brilliant to help settle new babies.

My boy was 9lb 6 , fed every two hours until he was about 6 weeks old, then there was a growth spurt and it stretched to 3 hours, at 4 months he was on every four hours etc. I introduce the dodie because he was such a voracious little sucker that I thought I'd have no boob left by the end of each feed. I never fed him for longer than 15-20 mins, usually 10-15 mins on one boob, then over to the other one for 5 mins or so before he's start bobbing off and messing or would fall asleep. I think feeding every two hours at 6 weeks is completely normal and it will stretch out soon.

As for being able to give attention to your daughter and getting anything done around the house, focus on your daughter first, the housework isn't important once there's enough food and clean clothes. 6 weeks after the birth, I was having a good day if my tshirt was still clean and I'd managed to brush my hair, and that's just with one child! Get your husband to make dinner and stick on a few washes in the evening - the baby is a fulltime job if you're breastfeeding, your daughter is overtime. Your husband can't help with breastfeeding so he needs to help out by making sure you have enough groceries (especially good nutritious snacks for you), laundry etc.

A sling will help you keep the baby happy while also being mobile enough for you to entertain your daughter. Is there anyone who can help out with her, take her for a walk or shopping or something while you get a rest?

At night, cosleeping can really increase the amount of sleep you get and leave you better able to cope during the day. There are a few threads on here about people's cosleeping arrangements, maybe have a trawl through and see if it might suit you.

Lynski's links on relactation are excellent. One day of not feeding shouldn't affect your supply provided you feed feed feed for the next few days. Get some fennel tea if you can and have porridge for breakfast, both help with keeping your supply up.

Your baby can be big AND hungry and you should still be able to feed him fine (biologically) - it's the emotional aspect of it, especially the tiredness, that icauses most trouble for most people. If you can, address that end of things. Maybe ask for more help from your husband or family. Don't be worrying about housework at this stage, you need sleep and support (and a sling!).

angelfire9 · 04-12-2010 5:32pm

Can I ask what ye think of expressing milk for feeding?
I want to give the babs the best start in life but the idea of hubby getting up to do the occassional feed appeals immensely :rolleyes:

It would also mean that around Christmas when we will have loads of visitors that the grannies could get in on the act occassionally to let me get some kip or even have a soak in the bath

Das Kitty · 04-12-2010 7:01pm

angelfire9 wrote: »

Can I ask what ye think of expressing milk for feeding?
I want to give the babs the best start in life but the idea of hubby getting up to do the occassional feed appeals immensely :rolleyes:

It would also mean that around Christmas when we will have loads of visitors that the grannies could get in on the act occassionally to let me get some kip or even have a soak in the bath

To be frank, I always found expressing a miserable thing. It took longer than feeding normally, it had to be done at the time of a normal feed. And I felt like a cow in a milking parlour

.

However I'm glad I did it because I needed to stop at 14 weeks and I didn't have to train him on the bottle as he was used to it. As well as that the pump was brilliant for preventing engorgement when I was stopping.

lynski · 05-12-2010 12:33am

i expressed regularly and so did my sis on my first, couldn't be bother on second, but after some research i will not be using formula this time.
anyway, take a look at the contented baby and or the baby whisperer for routines including expressing.

implausible · 05-12-2010 12:44am

Das Kitty wrote: »

To be frank, I always found expressing a miserable thing. It took longer than feeding normally, it had to be done at the time of a normal feed. And I felt like a cow in a milking parlour .

However I'm glad I did it because I needed to stop at 14 weeks and I didn't have to train him on the bottle as he was used to it. As well as that the pump was brilliant for preventing engorgement when I was stopping.

I'm with you on this; it can be a pain in the ass. It's brilliant to be able to get away (I got to a wedding when he was 5 weeks and to an overnight hen when he was 10 wks) and get them used to a bottle, but I never bothered with it for any other reason. Mind you, I'm lucky - my wee man sleeps 12 hours now (at 6 months) and was sleeping through the night from 6 weeks.

@Angelfire: appealing and all as it sounds, it's actually less hassle to bring the baby into the bed, pop him/her on the boob and fall asleep. My mother-in-law got to feed him when I was away.

Cat Melodeon · 06-12-2010 4:29pm

angelfire9 wrote: »

Can I ask what ye think of expressing milk for feeding?
I want to give the babs the best start in life but the idea of hubby getting up to do the occassional feed appeals immensely :rolleyes:

It would also mean that around Christmas when we will have loads of visitors that the grannies could get in on the act occassionally to let me get some kip or even have a soak in the bath

I started expressing when my boy was about 4 weeks (memory is getting fuzzy). I did just do it once in the morning on the 'good boob' having let my son feed first from the other one. In the beginning, I just saved it up, putting a stock in the freezer in case of emergencies. Once I was more confident about everything, I expressed maybe twice or three times a day and started to get my husband to give the 9pm feed and do the bedtime routine so I could have a long bath or get out of the house or just have some reading/tv/internet time on my own.

I found expressing great and will definitely do it again next time. I had a manual pump (avent) but will probably invest in an electric one next time as the only downside for me was how long it would take and not being able to pump while the baby fed - some people can manage this with a manual - I couldn't. One of my sisters was a bit weird about giving him a bottle of my milk but she soon got used to it (how is it weirder than giving him milk from some unrelated mammal?

). As he got older, I did occasionally give a bit of formula when I was disorganised - next time I hope I'll manage to stay just with the boob milk until the baby is fully weaned. He was breastfed & had expressed milk until he was over 11 months and then went on nursing strike - I continued to express until he was 14 months, at which point he went on to cow's milk etc.

angelfire9 · 06-12-2010 5:21pm

Thanks for that Cat

I didn't BF our daughter as I was self employed at the time and needed to be able to drop her to my mother's at short notice to meet with clients who didn't seem to understand the concept of maternity leave :rolleyes:

The whole BF concept is kinda scary from reading this thread I've gotten loads of good advice & sources of info but its hard to know what it will be like until I actually try

Guess I'll know soon enough

Cat Melodeon · 07-12-2010 12:06am

angelfire, I'd love to be able to give you some sort of idea what it will be like, but there's no real way to do that. It's a bit like any other biological process - no one can describe it to you or know what your experience of it will feel like for you.

All I can say is that attitude has EVERYTHING to do with it - if you feel all lovely and mammaly and positive about it (and not vaguely disgusted or outright terrified as many women can feel) then you have a brilliant chance at sticking with it. I'll never ever forget my first night with my boy, I felt like I was somehow connected to all the lionesses and tigresses and human mammies that ever gave birth and nursed their young. The gas took a while to wear off I guess!

The other most important thing is that you get enough support - even if it's just your husband whispering in your ear that you are brilliant or encouraging you to try doing just one more feed on those nights when you feel like giving up. Most women have at least one of these nights, mine was Night Four - it was hell, I was only saved by my lovely husband and a dodie. But once that night passed, it all got better by degrees and like I said, we stuck at it for over a year with no real setbacks. And I loved it. The first two weeks weren't exactly heaven, but once things settled it became the most beautiful and intimate experience I've ever had (well, apart from the other type of intimate experience that led to him being born in the first place, I suppose!).

If you still feel a bit nervous of the idea, I really recommend reading some positive breastfeeding stories from other mums. In the absence of a strong culture of breastfeeding passed down within families in Ireland, the next best thing is to surround yourself with examples of mothers and babies who have found breastfeeding to be a completely normal part of parenting. There aren't a huge number of such stories here on boards.ie but you will find them on the 'positive breastfeeding' threads on sites like thebreastway.com, friendsofbreastfeeding.com and rollercoaster.com. I found these to be a great resource - really helped me to develop a positive attitude to breastfeeding.

Good luck with it!

angelfire9 · 07-12-2010 12:19am

Thanks again Cat
Hubby is 100% behind me which helps
My mother is dubious but not saying much
My sister thinks I'm mad but then again she doesn't even know how to change a nappy

How Strange · 07-12-2010 9:29am

angelfire9, I'm an expectant first time mumand I'm determined to bf. My mother never did neither did my sister on her two. A friend recently had a baby and despite many obstacles she's doing it successfully.

From what I've read determination and support from your partner are essential because it's not very easy to start with. The baby can feed every 2 hours for the first few weeks so it's best to just surrender to this rather than fight
it. Unrealistic expectations seem to scupper plans quite often too. Dint expect to have the little baba in a 4 hr feeding routine within days or even weeks.

Anyone I've talked to who bf said it was such a beautiful and intimate time especially night feeding! I was advised to get a lactation consultant for one visit when I get out of hospital especially as my mum will be very resitant to bf and will be trying to get me to bottle feed. The usual Irish argument is the baby's hungry and needs more food. A lactation consultant can be the difference between sticking with it or giving up especially if you've got little support.

Good luck with it. I'm sure it will be atough road at the beginning but I've no doubt it's the best start you can give your baby and if it's the miracle weightloss trick people say it is then it's win win all round.
Ps excuse bad spelling I'm using my iPhone and it's a right pain for typing.

lynski · 07-12-2010 10:10am

Just to add another positive note to the experience, i have bf 2 children to 6 mths each and with some initial problems found it an easy fulfilling experience.
There is nothing like the feeling when the phn weighs your baby and tells you the gain the past week and you know it is all down to you.
yes in the first few weeks they need to be fed every few hrs, but that is only for a few wks and EVERY baby, artificialF or bf, needs to be fed that often, yes someone else can do the odd feed here and there, but it will be down to you mostly and even if someone is taking the night feeds for a night or 2 you will still wake when you hear the baby.
You will also never have to worry if you mixed the bottle right, is it the right temp, do i have enough in (a big worry in this weather), does it suit them, is it sterilised, is it made too long, none of that. You will never have the guilt that the formula is causing any health problems.

I firmly believe, no matter what relatives, phns etc say that a baby who is hungry will not sleep well, will not be happy and will not appear in any way contented. So if there is grief coming from those about baby getting enough, just tell them to f-off, you will know more then them in a few weeks and let your baby guide you.

If you are lucky your PHN will be helpful and you will have a bf support group available in the health center, it is worth giving them a call now to introduce yourself and to get the info.

I loved the reassurance of the baby whisperer routine, and hope to go that way again, the only criticism i have of it is that it is hard to do with other children.

Read read and read, spend time here asking questions and on other sites - you will have a hand free to do that (another benefit), call your phn and if they suggest a bottle even once make yourself heard, take the class in hospital if you can, and reach out to other moms in your area - you will find support and advice willingly given and maybe some friends for the coming yrs.
Good luck.

suitseir · 07-12-2010 10:43am

Good to see that in your opinion, breastfeeding is working! However, it is important that the breastfeeding is as much for the baby as it is for you!

As a Gran I am at pains to tell you how I am finding it impossible to get through to my daughter at the moment regarding breastfeeding. This is her first baby (boy) and she has been advised by the health visitor that baby is losing weight and she needs to top up with a bottle for the evening feed! Believe me, there is nothing wrong with this as I did it myself, many moons ago.

Even if you breastfeed for a week after birth, the immunity has built up and in some cases, if breastfeeding goes on for say, a year down the road, the baby, and more especially if it is a boy, will sometimes reject the bottle when mummy feels that she has had enough of breastfeeding. Remember, it is mummy who decides when breastfeeding ends, not baby.

I am not against breastfeeding, but sometimes it is important to listen to family who, believe it or not, have gone through the process and not to tell them to ahem.....off......just be careful that you might alienate yourself. LISTEN to what all sides have to say.

That is my dilemma at present, and I am at the stage where I can see my grandchild taken into hospital to be attended to if the situation doesn't improve. Think outside the box, just now and again.

Das Kitty · 07-12-2010 11:08am

suitseir wrote: »

Good to see that in your opinion, breastfeeding is working! However, it is important that the breastfeeding is as much for the baby as it is for you!

As a Gran I am at pains to tell you how I am finding it impossible to get through to my daughter at the moment regarding breastfeeding. This is her first baby (boy) and she has been advised by the health visitor that baby is losing weight and she needs to top up with a bottle for the evening feed! Believe me, there is nothing wrong with this as I did it myself, many moons ago.

Even if you breastfeed for a week after birth, the immunity has built up and in some cases, if breastfeeding goes on for say, a year down the road, the baby, and more especially if it is a boy, will sometimes reject the bottle when mummy feels that she has had enough of breastfeeding. Remember, it is mummy who decides when breastfeeding ends, not baby.

I am not against breastfeeding, but sometimes it is important to listen to family who, believe it or not, have gone through the process and not to tell them to ahem.....off......just be careful that you might alienate yourself. LISTEN to what all sides have to say.

That is my dilemma at present, and I am at the stage where I can see my grandchild taken into hospital to be attended to if the situation doesn't improve. Think outside the box, just now and again.

This is your daughter's child not yours. You don't get a say on how the baby is fed. Maybe rather than criticise her, support her and she may have an easier time feeding her child without the stress of conflict with her mother? Just a thought.

Anyway, onto the previous points.

The thing that I found most inhibiting to my breastfeeding success were my own expectations. I expected it to be easy enough. I had read the books, studied the diagrams watched the videos. The reality of having to learn and teach baby when all they want us to feed all the time was very different. It was very very difficult and painful. I was not prepared for this (along with the crazy crazy hormones). I think next time will be better because I now know it's not going to be simple. I also think I'd use nipple sheilds sooner next time.

In other advice have the lanolin, breast shells, etc all bought in advance and in a little makeup bag for access. You're bound to need them in the middle of the night when no chemists are open!

lynski · 07-12-2010 11:32am

suitseir wrote: »

Good to see that in your opinion, breastfeeding is working! However, it is important that the breastfeeding is as much for the baby as it is for you!

As a Gran I am at pains to tell you how I am finding it impossible to get through to my daughter at the moment regarding breastfeeding. This is her first baby (boy) and she has been advised by the health visitor that baby is losing weight and she needs to top up with a bottle for the evening feed! Believe me, there is nothing wrong with this as I did it myself, many moons ago.

Even if you breastfeed for a week after birth, the immunity has built up and in some cases, if breastfeeding goes on for say, a year down the road, the baby, and more especially if it is a boy, will sometimes reject the bottle when mummy feels that she has had enough of breastfeeding. Remember, it is mummy who decides when breastfeeding ends, not baby.

Is the baby actually losing weight or just not gaining fast enough?
how old is the child?
Any health visitor who is promoting top-ups needs to change the message, has she heard of cluster feeding? expressing after feeding so child gets bottles of EBM?
Is your daughter getting making sure that the child is feeding long enough to get to the hind milk?
I do not want to sound combative, but topping up is not the only answer, there are a number of other ways that the child can get what it needs.
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/index.html this is an excellent resource re milk issues.
As the previous poster said maybe you should try to support her decision and let go of your opinions and it might help.
Lastly, I am not even going to start on the whole even a week is enough stuff, etc, there is plenty of new information out there that this is not the case.

suitseir · 07-12-2010 1:10pm

Reply to Das Kitty

I am quite aware that this is my daughter's child, thank you, but believe it or not, the generation gone before, can have some helpful tips having been there before without the help of books and the internet! and discussion boards!

It is not out of confrontation that I have an opinion, it is for the good of the child and yes, she is getting support!

Maybe you will remember my thoughts when you reach the Gran stage, which some day, I have no doubt you will.

suitseir · 07-12-2010 1:16pm

lynski wrote: »

Is the baby actually losing weight or just not gaining fast enough?
how old is the child?
Any health visitor who is promoting top-ups needs to change the message, has she heard of cluster feeding? expressing after feeding so child gets bottles of EBM?
Is your daughter getting making sure that the child is feeding long enough to get to the hind milk?
I do not want to sound combative, but topping up is not the only answer, there are a number of other ways that the child can get what it needs.
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/index.html this is an excellent resource re milk issues.
As the previous poster said maybe you should try to support her decision and let go of your opinions and it might help.
Lastly, I am not even going to start on the whole even a week is enough stuff, etc, there is plenty of new information out there that this is not the case.

Baby was born about 9lbs. 14 ozs. and yes, baby is losing weight. His arms and legs are quite skinny and even the Health visitor has expressed her concern. While she is expressing milk,the amount of work in doing this only results in about 2 ozs. Correct me if I am wrong, having reared children myself, but I would think a 2 month old baby should be drinking at least 7/8 ozs. a day. Baby suckles with mummy but I am thinking baby ain't getting enough!

In my experience, breast feeding mums go VERY DEFENSIVE when one makes a suggestion and let's face it, the suggestion is for the good of the baby. All I am saying is while breastfeeding is the first and the original it is not the b all of feeding baby, especially if it is not fully functional.

I am looking for advice here too, believe or not, not a slating for having an opinion.

Thank you.
VERY CONCERNED & LOVING MOTHER & GRAN

bourgie · 07-12-2010 1:25pm

I think surrounding yourself with people who are positive about breastfeeding - and who can offer practical advise about keeping it up is really, really important. You quickly suss out who are the people who hate the thought of it and those who will really support you and help you through, based on practical knowledge. Cat Melodeon's advice is spot on.

There will be a lot of well meaning people who want to support you but think breastfeeding is a "nice to have", that the medical benefits are overstated and that you are just martyring yourself and your baby if you run into some problems and don't immediately reach for the formula. You need to be able to distinguish between the different kinds of support and listen to them accordingly. My fantastic mother means well but really doesn't see why I am so passionate about it and thinks I have done enough at this stage. I have to say also that I find Irish websites not the best in terms of knowledge and a lot of myths are re-pedalled (the big hungry baby being a big one!). Inform yourself (kellymom is brill), know where the info is available in case of problems and don't focus on the possible problems, but on the benefits for your baby and the satisfaction and joy of providing all the nutrition your baby needs.

Das Kitty · 07-12-2010 1:42pm

suitseir wrote: »

Reply to Das Kitty

I am quite aware that this is my daughter's child, thank you, but believe it or not, the generation gone before, can have some helpful tips having been there before without the help of books and the internet! and discussion boards!

It is not out of confrontation that I have an opinion, it is for the good of the child and yes, she is getting support!

Maybe you will remember my thoughts when you reach the Gran stage, which some day, I have no doubt you will.

I understand that your intentions are good, however the end result is the same. You're adding to your daughter's stress which can dramatically affect her milk supply.

Babies lose weight to begin with, it's normal, people begin to panic when it's a little over that 10% but panic is counter productive. Your daughter's body is more than capable of providing for her baby. I just feel it would be better for everyone if she was left to it. My own son lost 14% but soon enough gained it back and was flying up the centiles. Please don't worry about your grandchild, babies are made if stern stuff. It's very unlikely the baby will be hospitalised.

Maybe you could support her efforts by providing her with a lactation consultant?

FYI though, I had to stop breastfeeding at 4 months do I'm not anti formula at all, I'm just pro-mammy.

bourgie · 07-12-2010 1:53pm

suitseir wrote: »

Baby was born about 9lbs. 14 ozs. and yes, baby is losing weight. His arms and legs are quite skinny and even the Health visitor has expressed her concern. While she is expressing milk,the amount of work in doing this only results in about 2 ozs. Correct me if I am wrong, having reared children myself, but I would think a 2 month old baby should be drinking at least 7/8 ozs. a day. Baby suckles with mummy but I am thinking baby ain't getting enough!

In my experience, breast feeding mums go VERY DEFENSIVE when one makes a suggestion and let's face it, the suggestion is for the good of the baby. All I am saying is while breastfeeding is the first and the original it is not the b all of feeding baby, especially if it is not fully functional.

I am looking for advice here too, believe or not, not a slating for having an opinion.

Thank you.
VERY CONCERNED & LOVING MOTHER & GRAN

Of course you are a loving and concerned gran - you probably think that breastfeeding mums are very defensive because a lot of the time the advice is coming from people who are not very well informed about breastfeeding and we have to be a bit defensive to keep going! From your comments the health visitor has "expressed concern" - it is a long way from the baby going to hospital surely.

If it helps, the amount you can express has absolutely no connection to the amount of milk the baby can get. Some people have lots of milk but never succeed in expressing much more than a few ounces. It is absolutley no indication of breastfeeding "not functioning".

Has your daughter tried upping her supply with fenugreek? Just sitting in bed with the baby and concentrating on feeding until back on track? Is she resting and taking care of herself? I got a fantastic recipe from a Leon cookbook for Breastfeeding bread, which contained lots of herbs that are meant to stimulate supply. Also, I was told that breastfed babies put on weight faster than formula fed but then slow down when ff ones are picking up. Is the baby happy and active with lots of wet nappies?

Reaching for the formula is not the only way to address the problem and if your daugher does not want to supplement and will only do it as a last resort, then that is her decision and the best way to support her is to respect her decision and help her find alternatives. .

lynski · 07-12-2010 2:56pm

suitseir wrote: »

Baby was born about 9lbs. 14 ozs. and yes, baby is losing weight. His arms and legs are quite skinny and even the Health visitor has expressed her concern. While she is expressing milk,the amount of work in doing this only results in about 2 ozs. Correct me if I am wrong, having reared children myself, but I would think a 2 month old baby should be drinking at least 7/8 ozs. a day. Baby suckles with mummy but I am thinking baby ain't getting enough!

In my experience, breast feeding mums go VERY DEFENSIVE when one makes a suggestion and let's face it, the suggestion is for the good of the baby. All I am saying is while breastfeeding is the first and the original it is not the b all of feeding baby, especially if it is not fully functional.

I am looking for advice here too, believe or not, not a slating for having an opinion.

Thank you.
VERY CONCERNED & LOVING MOTHER & GRAN

Breastfed babies are generally leaner then bottle fed babies, is the health visitor using the more accurate tables for weight gain in breastfed babies or the older ones based on bottlefed babies? see here http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/growth/weight-gain.html
The baby is 2mths old... she is doing something right!
A 2 mth old will show very obvious signs of being distressed if they are not feeding enough. below are some signs for a newborn, but might be helpful.

What are the signs that my baby isn't getting enough milk?
If your baby isn’t getting enough milk, you’ll notice one or more of these signs:

Your baby is unsettled after feeds.

Your baby wants to feed constantly.

Your baby is sleepy most of the time.

Your baby has dimples in his cheeks or makes clicking noises while breastfeeding. This is a sign that your baby is not latched on properly. Get help from a breastfeeding counsellor or infant feeding specialist to make sure that your technique is right.

Your baby is wetting fewer than six to eight nappies in a 24-hour period after he's five days old.
.

http://www.babycentre.co.uk/baby/breastfeeding/gettingenoughmilk/

there has been some slating going on on both sides. feeding is a very emotive issue, but looking for ways to improve supply, fix the latch, improve babies feeding are more productive then mixing up a bottle.

implausible · 07-12-2010 4:09pm

suitseir wrote: »

His arms and legs are quite skinny and even the Health visitor has expressed her concern. While she is expressing milk,the amount of work in doing this only results in about 2 ozs. Correct me if I am wrong, having reared children myself, but I would think a 2 month old baby should be drinking at least 7/8 ozs. a day. Baby suckles with mummy but I am thinking baby ain't getting enough!

In my experience, breast feeding mums go VERY DEFENSIVE when one makes a suggestion and let's face it, the suggestion is for the good of the baby.

I am looking for advice here too, believe or not, not a slating for having an opinion.

Of course you're concerned about your grandchild Suitseir, but you really need to trust your daughter. Sad to say, but I would not have 100% confidence in the PHNs in this country as unfortunately, they are not all trained properly with regards to breastfeeding. They tend to check breastfed babies against the weight tables for formula fed babies. I remember my PHN and my mother being utterly amazed that my wee breastfed man was gaining the same as a 'normal' fed baby!

After seeing my wee fella's progress, my mother is a complete convert and tells everyone who wants to know (and lots who don't) that her grandson is "100% breastfed". (She announced it to an elderly couple after his christening, I was mortified:o)

The reason breastfeeding mothers get so defensive and why you feel slated is because everyone from health 'professionals' to relatives and friends is obsessed with the baby not getting enough milk. You can't measure how much the baby is getting (what you express is not a guide) so formula is more reassuring to everyone, except the mother!

My advice - as a mother, trust that the last thing your daughter is trying to do is harm her child. Do some research for yourself (and her) about breastfeeding. Advising her to top up will reduce her supply, stress her out and create tension in your relationship,

lynski wrote: »

Breastfed babies are generally leaner then bottle fed babies, is the health visitor using the more accurate tables for weight gain in breastfed babies or the older ones based on bottlefed babies?

A 2 mth old will show very obvious signs of being distressed if they are not feeding enough.

feeding is a very emotive issue, but looking for ways to improve supply, fix the latch, improve babies feeding are more productive then mixing up a bottle.

+1

angelfire9 wrote: »

Hubby is 100% behind me which helps
My mother is dubious but not saying much
My sister thinks I'm mad but then again she doesn't even know how to change a nappy

Your hubby is the most important support to have. Trust yourself, do a LOT of reading and don't let people (especially healthcare staff) railroad you.

And as another incentive - the weightloss is great! I left hospital a week after Cathal's birth with my baby bump all but gone. He's 6 months old now and I'm over /2 stone lighter than I was before I got pregnant. I haven't been this slim since I was 16!

Cat Melodeon · 07-12-2010 4:16pm

suitseir wrote: »

Good to see that in your opinion, breastfeeding is working! However, it is important that the breastfeeding is as much for the baby as it is for you!

As a Gran I am at pains to tell you how I am finding it impossible to get through to my daughter at the moment regarding breastfeeding. This is her first baby (boy) and she has been advised by the health visitor that baby is losing weight and she needs to top up with a bottle for the evening feed! Believe me, there is nothing wrong with this as I did it myself, many moons ago.

Even if you breastfeed for a week after birth, the immunity has built up and in some cases, if breastfeeding goes on for say, a year down the road, the baby, and more especially if it is a boy, will sometimes reject the bottle when mummy feels that she has had enough of breastfeeding. Remember, it is mummy who decides when breastfeeding ends, not baby.

I am not against breastfeeding, but sometimes it is important to listen to family who, believe it or not, have gone through the process and not to tell them to ahem.....off......just be careful that you might alienate yourself. LISTEN to what all sides have to say.

That is my dilemma at present, and I am at the stage where I can see my grandchild taken into hospital to be attended to if the situation doesn't improve. Think outside the box, just now and again.

I think it's lovely that you are so involved with your daughter. My own mum passed away 15 years ago, I never missed her as much as I did in the first few weeks after my son was born. Is it your first grandchild? Congrats, in any case!

Medical opinion has changed a lot in the past few years - the advice my sister was given 6 years ago when she had her daughter was completely different to the advice that is being given today. Before you encourage your daughter to top up with formula or switch from breastfeeding altogether, it would be great if you could have a read of a few bits of information on what is generally being recommended by trained and up-to-date staff (I've pasted one article below). Not even all the PHNs are fully trained, it can be very difficult to get the right kind of support, so it would be lovely if you could step into this gap for your daughter.

I know that getting a top up 'never hurt anyone', but all the best advice these days says that breastfeeding exclusively until a child is at least 4 months (6 months is better) and then introducing solids and continuing to breastfeed until a child is two (and beyond) is what we should all be trying to do for our kids. Most people don't get to the two year mark, but it would be fantastic if we could at least get to 6 months. Who doesn't want the absolute best for their kids? Especially when 'the best' is what should really just be normal?

I don't mean in anyway to take away from what you are trying to do for your daughter, it's lovely that she has someone around her who cares for her and is trying to help. Try to keep in mind though that the most simple thing like a sigh or a comment like 'just a little bit of formula won't hurt' can make a new mum want to give up completely, even if that's not your intention. I was very lucky that my mother-in-law was very pro-breastfeeding and had had difficulties herself with her kids, so she was very clued in about things like cluster feeds and good diet. I didn't have her around much (she lives in the UK) but she would ring me to see how I was getting on and just her saying "ah, try it one more day" really helped to keep me positive and realise that I didn't need to use formula, I just needed to increase my supply.

Only about 3% of women have any kind of biological reason why their supply isn't enough for their baby - problems are usually related to stress or diet. My baby was 9lb 6 and VERY hungry, but with the right diet and enough sleep I managed to feed him myself without too much hassle until he was about 14 months old.

Anyway, here's an article especially for grannies:

Breastfeeding Facts for Grandparents

Congratulations! Your grandchild is going to get the best possible nutrition because he/she is getting breast milk. Your support will be very important for the mother and father of your grandchild.
Benefits for Your Grandchild

There is a decrease in the chance that baby will have
Frequent ear infections

Asthma

Allergies

Diarrhea

Diabetes

There is also research now that shows that breastfed babies are less likely to be obese later on in life and have higher IQ’s.
Benefits for the Mother Who is Breastfeeding

Recover from child birth sooner

Lose weight gained during pregnancy faster

Decrease her risk of cancer if she breastfeeds for 6 months or longer

Decrease her risk of osteoporosis (bone loss) when she gets older

What’s Normal for a Breastfeeding Baby?

The best time to start breastfeeding is within the first hour after birth.

The baby may be sleepy during the first day and need rubbing or tickling during feeds to help keep her/him awake.

It may seem that your grandchild wants to eat frequently because colostrums (the first milk) is easily digested and comes out in small amounts.

Your grandchild should feed about every 2-3 hours or 10-12 times in a day (24 hour period).

It is important for you to relax if the baby and mom seem to be struggling with breastfeeding in the first two weeks. Things are usually going well by the time mom’s milk comes in. BE PATIENT.
What Can You Do To Help?

Get baby ready to feed by unwrapping and waking the baby for mom.

Help stimulate the baby during feeding.

Get water or snacks for mom / She will be hungry and thirsty.

Help with household chores like laundry, cooking, cleaning and grocery shopping.

Care for other children in the house.

Ask mom what she would like for you to do for her and the baby.

Praise mom for doing a great job.

Remember

Breastmilk supplies everything your grandchild needs and he/she does not need formula.

Your daughter/in-law is making enough milk for her baby. It is very rare that a mother does not make enough milk.

Babies cry for other reasons than being hungry.

Breast milk is the best nutrition for your grandchild.

Babies need to eat frequently when breastfeeding because breast milk digests very quickly.

If you have other questions, concerns or you and the baby’s mom do not feel that breastfeeding is going well, you can get help from organizations like La Leche League, www.thebreastway.com, Friends of Breastfeeding, your PHN, and your grandchild’s GP.

Remember, by you showing support and helping mum be successful with breastfeeding, you will be giving your grandchild the best start possible.

From LLL and UH Hospitals, Ohio

AmcD · 07-12-2010 10:59pm

How Strange wrote: »

angelfire9, I'm an expectant first time mumand I'm determined to bf. My mother never did neither did my sister on her two. A friend recently had a baby and despite many obstacles she's doing it successfully.

From what I've read determination and support from your partner are essential because it's not very easy to start with. The baby can feed every 2 hours for the first few weeks so it's best to just surrender to this rather than fight
it. Unrealistic expectations seem to scupper plans quite often too. Dint expect to have the little baba in a 4 hr feeding routine within days or even weeks.

Good luck with it. I'm sure it will be atough road at the beginning but I've no doubt it's the best start you can give your baby and if it's the miracle weightloss trick people say it is then it's win win all round.
Ps excuse bad spelling I'm using my iPhone and it's a right pain for typing.

I am a first-time breastfeeding mum. My daughter is 11 weeks old now. Here are my tips/observations so far (hope you aren't offended by unsolicited advice!)
1.Breast-feeding can be very difficult to start with. It is a 24 hour job and can be very painful. I had really painful nipples, which made me dread each feed. At one point my baby vomited up my blood (probably TMI). Gradually things improved with Lansinoh, variety in feeding positions and taking care over latching on. By three weeks things were much better.

2. Only let close friends and family visit you in the first three weeks. Make it clear that they are visiting to help. Tell them to bring food. Marks and Sparks have pretty good ready meals. My sister was fantastic- she marched into my house, filled the fridge with food and took the baby off me and told me to have a nap. Be upfront with breastfeeding and let visitors know when you have to feed. You shouldn't have to scuttle away to feed.

3. Don't worry too much about how much and how often the baby feeds. The baby decides on the feeding routine. As long as there are plenty of wet and dirty nappies you are doing fine. Don't listen to advice about waking a sleeping baby to feed if they are having a long sleep, instead enjoy a welcome break. A baby will quickly let you know if they need a feed. The amount you express also has no correlation with how much the baby is actually getting. Babies are much more efficient than pumps at getting the milk out.

4. Definitely consider visiting a local breastfeeding group (see breastfeeding.ie). I found it really helpful to talk to other mums and to see the huge variety in babies' feeding and sleeping patterns. All were normal. You also get a chance to weigh the baby. It is really important to get out and about.

So apart from the initial pain and lack of sleep, here are the advantages, on top of the health benefits:
Once feeding is comfortable, it is a lovely experience.
You can feed anywhere and feed at very short notice. I have fed in restaurants, on airplanes, shopping centres and even Dublin Zoo.
My baby weight was gone by day 12!

The Breast Feeding Support Thread

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