FAS Work Placement Program

duffflash

I had to stop reading this tread as it was getting to distressing for me. Unfortunately there seems to be little or no regulation of this scheme. It will be exploited by employers regardless of whether they can afford to pay to employ someone or not, sure why would they when they can get a long list of highly qualified graduates for nothing. I’m not here to say that this is a bad scheme but that it is being run very badly. I think every graduate in the country would jump at the chance of going on this scheme if it offered any real chance of employment, but as long as employers are allowed to take people in and work for a year and let them go again and then take more people in to replace them only to do the same they will never create real paid positions again. Perhaps if after the first year the employer offered to pay a percentage of the wage in year two and again increased the percentage again in year tree it may work. But as it is it will be taken advantage of my companies that ( lets face it) are profit driven.
I know there will be a que of people here waiting to tell me that people on the dole are freeloading and so on...... but the only advantage of this scheme at the minute is that our graduates have some work experience so they can better find work abroad and our economy will never recover if we again allow our best to leave the country. Please understand we are not looking for handouts here only a chance to build a life in our own country.

ThomasCreeby

duffflash wrote: »

I had to stop reading this tread as it was getting to distressing for me. Unfortunately there seems to be little or no regulation of this scheme. It will be exploited by employers regardless of whether they can afford to pay to employ someone or not, sure why would they when they can get a long list of highly qualified graduates for nothing. I’m not here to say that this is a bad scheme but that it is being run very badly. I think every graduate in the country would jump at the chance of going on this scheme if it offered any real chance of employment, but as long as employers are allowed to take people in and work for a year and let them go again and then take more people in to replace them only to do the same they will never create real paid positions again. Perhaps if after the first year the employer offered to pay a percentage of the wage in year two and again increased the percentage again in year tree it may work. But as it is it will be taken advantage of my companies that ( lets face it) are profit driven.
I know there will be a que of people here waiting to tell me that people on the dole are freeloading and so on...... but the only advantage of this scheme at the minute is that our graduates have some work experience so they can better find work abroad and our economy will never recover if we again allow our best to leave the country. Please understand we are not looking for handouts here only a chance to build a life in our own country.

Probably the most welcome response Ive received since I started this thread a few months back. I'm currently working part-time as a bartender here, I've been to college and done decent internships abroad and I'm working 1 day a week as a bar tender and receiving my dole to cover the rest of the week. I'd work 40 hours a week as a bartender if I could get the hours at this point just so I could save up enough money to get the fu*k out of here.
I'm sick of older people whining on at me like they know something just because they lived through their own recession, there's an entire population of graduates and young people saying "what the actual f*&k?" when they go online to try and find jobs here. anyway, I almost have enough saved to move to London now, even if it goes tits up at least I can say I got out of here for a little while. Living abroad before taught me to appreciate the things I have here but unfortunately another year of being broke here like most of the other young people I know and I think I would go postal.
The WPP scheme is just another example of how innately useless and pointless the entire FAS organisation is, personally I would disband it and make a separate organisation for getting people trained and a separate organisation for finding people work. The only thing the WPP scheme at FAS has done for me so far is send me a single letter about once every 6 weeks containing details of some random WPP scheme (usually in a completely different part of the country/city) that I might be interested in.
What a waste of money sending this crapola when anyone can just go online and find the exact same details in a matter of seconds.
In summary, disband FAS.

RichardAnd

duffflash wrote: »

I had to stop reading this tread as it was getting to distressing for me. Unfortunately there seems to be little or no regulation of this scheme. It will be exploited by employers regardless of whether they can afford to pay to employ someone or not, sure why would they when they can get a long list of highly qualified graduates for nothing. I’m not here to say that this is a bad scheme but that it is being run very badly. I think every graduate in the country would jump at the chance of going on this scheme if it offered any real chance of employment, but as long as employers are allowed to take people in and work for a year and let them go again and then take more people in to replace them only to do the same they will never create real paid positions again. Perhaps if after the first year the employer offered to pay a percentage of the wage in year two and again increased the percentage again in year tree it may work. But as it is it will be taken advantage of my companies that ( lets face it) are profit driven.
I know there will be a que of people here waiting to tell me that people on the dole are freeloading and so on...... but the only advantage of this scheme at the minute is that our graduates have some work experience so they can better find work abroad and our economy will never recover if we again allow our best to leave the country. Please understand we are not looking for handouts here only a chance to build a life in our own country.

A string of people will be here to tell you that complaining about the WPP is a "celtic club" attitude or that you're being unrealistic in your expectations. I understand why you would feel distressed because knowing that there is a way to hire free staff would make me worry to if I needed a job.

The WPP is a warped version of what can be a good thing. Un-paid internships are nothing new but in England, offering un-paid work is very tightly regulated because they know something like this will be abused. I'm not one for conspiracy theories at all but I can't accept that anyone would be stupid enough to set up a scheme like this and not close it down when there is clear and blatant abuse going on. It makes you wonder if there's more to the WPP than it being the product of Coughlan's (or however you spell that) limited mind.

However, you shouldn't let this get to you too much. Yes, the WPP has kept a few people on the dole but it isn't derailing chances of finding work either. If you look at alot of the WPP jobs, you'll find they have been there for months; people simply are not applying to 90% of them because they know the experience is worthless or they simply don't want to work for no extra gain.

The idea of the WPP is actually a good one because graduates NEED real experience. Most know next to nothing about what they have a degree in and this could be a way to help them get it. However, this being Ireland, the system to offer that experience is, naturally, faulty. Don't let it get to you, plenty of employers actually have the honesty to pay someone for a days work, the ones that won't probably aren't worth working for.

donkey balls

[QUOTE=RichardAnd;66408906]A string of people will be here to tell you that complaining about the WPP is a "celtic club" attitude or that you're being unrealistic in your expectations. I understand why you would feel distressed because knowing that there is a way to hire free staff would make me worry to if I needed a job.

The WPP is a warped version of what can be a good thing. Un-paid internships are nothing new but in England, offering un-paid work is very tightly regulated because they know something like this will be abused. I'm not one for conspiracy theories at all but I can't accept that anyone would be stupid enough to set up a scheme like this and not close it down when there is clear and blatant abuse going on. It makes you wonder if there's more to the WPP than it being the product of Coughlan's (or however you spell that) limited mind.

However, you shouldn't let this get to you too much. Yes, the WPP has kept a few people on the dole but it isn't derailing chances of finding work either. If you look at alot of the WPP jobs, you'll find they have been there for months; people simply are not applying to 90% of them because they know the experience is worthless or they simply don't want to work for no extra gain.

The idea of the WPP is actually a good one because graduates NEED real experience. Most know next to nothing about what they have a degree in and this could be a way to help them get it. However, this being Ireland, the system to offer that experience is, naturally, faulty. Don't let it get to you, plenty of employers actually have the honesty to pay someone for a days work, the ones that won't probably aren't worth working for.[/QUOTE]

i grew up during the 80s and remember the recession also the early part of the 90s as well,and i agree with the last two posters:eek:.
when this WPP scheme came out i noticed jobs in my industry that advertised the fact that the person needed to be of a certain age and have experience, the idea of the WPP was to give people experience in their particular field.
i reported two schemes to FAS and the two adverts was taking down only to re appear a month later:mad: when i got in contact with FAS again i was told that they would not take down the adverts and sure if no one applied for the job what harm was it doing.

janice2

hi all i was just reading this thread and wondering if anyone knows if you can qualify for the fas work placement programme and get payment from social welfare without actually being on it at present? i have received a job offer for mid august basically on the condition of being on this programme. i know that you can get on the programme without being on social welfare but this basically means you would be working for free. I would need to get social welfare to cover my travel expences, survive etc but my worry is that i wouldnt be able to get it on this programme without being on the register for three months- ie not long enough to start in august ? does anybody know anything about this system? i dont want to miss out on this job with a potential longer contract just because of a technicality like this! have been unemployed since feb this year but didnt apply for the dole because living at home and didnt think i would be entitled to it? any help is much appreciated, thanks!

RichardAnd

janice2 wrote: »

hi all i was just reading this thread and wondering if anyone knows if you can qualify for the fas work placement programme and get payment from social welfare without actually being on it at present? i have received a job offer for mid august basically on the condition of being on this programme. i know that you can get on the programme without being on social welfare but this basically means you would be working for free. I would need to get social welfare to cover my travel expences, survive etc but my worry is that i wouldnt be able to get it on this programme without being on the register for three months- ie not long enough to start in august ? does anybody know anything about this system? i dont want to miss out on this job with a potential longer contract just because of a technicality like this! have been unemployed since feb this year but didnt apply for the dole because living at home and didnt think i would be entitled to it? any help is much appreciated, thanks!

You actually probably would but fair play to you for going out to work.

Unfortunately, I think you might be in trouble here because if I remember correctly, you need to be registered with FAS and have been out of work for a while before you can do the WPP. I could be wrong on this but I'm almost certain that you can't simply find a job and then apply for SW. Kind of crazy but that's FAS.

Your best bet is to give FAS a call and see what you can get out of them. Sorry I can't be of more help.

28064212

janice2 wrote: »

hi all i was just reading this thread and wondering if anyone knows if you can qualify for the fas work placement programme and get payment from social welfare without actually being on it at present? i have received a job offer for mid august basically on the condition of being on this programme. i know that you can get on the programme without being on social welfare but this basically means you would be working for free. I would need to get social welfare to cover my travel expences, survive etc but my worry is that i wouldnt be able to get it on this programme without being on the register for three months- ie not long enough to start in august ? does anybody know anything about this system? i dont want to miss out on this job with a potential longer contract just because of a technicality like this! have been unemployed since feb this year but didnt apply for the dole because living at home and didnt think i would be entitled to it? any help is much appreciated, thanks!

http://www.fas.ie/en/job+seeker/wpp/default.htm

Looks like you do have to be on the dole for 3 months, but talk to Fás, they may be able to help you. Maybe you would be allowed to start the placement, then apply for welfare straight after you start. Best option is to talk to Fás and find out

milkybar kid wk

does the employer have to pay PRSI for the employee

donkey balls

milkybar kid wk wrote: »

does the employer have to pay PRSI for the employee

nope the employer gets someone to work for them for nothing as the person is getting paid from the dept of social welfare.

carwash106

Interesting post.

Lots of people made good points, really made me think.

heres my experience..
im around a month into my graduate wpp1, im a recently graduated web developer working with a company now. So far im not really learning that much and seriously considering looking for a different placement. however i probably wont because

1. the half of the day im sitting around im doing personal learning, im going online and practicing what i do. im lucky that way that my chosen profession there is a certain amount of self taught stuff you can do
2. it still count as experience on paper and on your cv and ill stick the 9 month because i can learn on companies time.
3. i was sitting around at home anyway doing nothing, living cheaply doesnt bother me as i have applied for the full dole(was getting 95) and applying for rent allowance( dont even know will i get that)

Im not doing the whole coming in early and staying late thing because at the end of the day im working here for free, the reason i have so much time is because there isnt much work for me at all.

At the end of the day a lot of companies abuse it but if you can find a way to take advantage of it( any advantage - building your cv etc) . It doesnt feel very nice to work without pay but i have no choice at the moment.

jock101

Being forced to Work for nothing, is that not called Slavery:eek:.

RichardAnd

jock101 wrote: »

Being forced to Work for nothing, is that not called Slavery:eek:.

No one is being forced onto the WPP.

Carwash106, your attitude is pretty much the same view I have come to have of the WPP. It's a bad idea really and it is being abused but I do admire you for making the best of it.

In Ireland, you will never beat the system and no matter how absurd it is, your best bet is to make it work for you.

carwash106

RichardAnd wrote: »

No one is being forced onto the WPP.

Haha good point, no one is being forced onto it.

Personally i was having an "easy" time of it at home when i couldnt find work but where would that leave me and the counrty for that matter, another person on the dole not bothering looking for work.

For personal development reasons i would say to any graduate who cant find work and are on the dole, find a wpp1 with a company in your field and stick with it for your own sake.
Try to ignore the feelings of lousiness that comes with the program because its not much more lousy than sitting at home when you want to be working.

RichardAnd

carwash106 wrote: »

Haha good point, no one is being forced onto it.

Personally i was having an "easy" time of it at home when i couldnt find work but where would that leave me and the counrty for that matter, another person on the dole not bothering looking for work.

For personal development reasons i would say to any graduate who cant find work and are on the dole, find a wpp1 with a company in your field and stick with it for your own sake.
Try to ignore the feelings of lousiness that comes with the program because its not much more lousy than sitting at home when you want to be working.

With an attitude like that, you'll find a proper job, just might take some time.

I actually graduated from computer science too and like you, my area is web development. Sadly though, when I left college I found out how little a degree is worth and couldn't find a job. Rather than draw the dole, I joined a wedding band and made some good money until a job opportunity came up. Playing music might not be a full time job but it still gets you out, gets you thinking and earns you some cash.

Though I think the WPP needs serious revision I do second the bolded advice. Staying at home on the dole is the worst possible thing a graduate can do if they hope to find decent employment and anything else, even a FAS course, is preferable.

carwash106

RichardAnd wrote: »

Sadly though, when I left college I found out how little a degree is worth and couldn't find a job.

Thanks RichardAnd.

It amazes me how little a degree is worth, not only to employers but to a graduate when they realise they really know nothing!!

alanajane

my husband was laid off some months ago but two weeks after he was let go his job was advertised on Fas as a WPP, so there was work there for him but the company couldnt or wouldnt pay him. not fair

The_Honeybadger

alanajane wrote: »

my husband was laid off some months ago but two weeks after he was let go his job was advertised on Fas as a WPP, so there was work there for him but the company couldnt or wouldnt pay him. not fair

This is against the rules of the program, they clearly state that nobody can have been made redundant from any of the positions advertised in the previous year so he should report that. I'm not sure how good they are at following up this sort of thing so there is every possibility that FAS don't know that somebody had been laid off and that this is the reason there is a vacancy for a WPP candidate, that employer should't be allowed get away with it.

danbohan

mickeyk wrote: »

This is against the rules of the program, they clearly state that nobody can have been made redundant from any of the positions advertised in the previous year so he should report that. I'm not sure how good they are at following up this sort of thing so there is every possibility that FAS don't know that somebody had been laid off and that this is the reason there is a vacancy for a WPP candidate, that employer should't be allowed get away with it.

of course we should make the employer continuie to pay inflated and unrealistic wages until his company is bankrupt and then everybody be out of a job !

donkey balls

danbohan wrote: »

of course we should make the employer continuie to pay inflated and unrealistic wages until his company is bankrupt and then everybody be out of a job !

are you for real?:eek: with the above statement? someone losses their job due to the employer looking for free labour, how to you know that the chap was on inflated wages to begin with.
do you want everyone to work for nothing, i reckon the chap that got let go could bring his employer to court over constructive dismisal, as for FAS you could tell them but i reckon you wont get very far with them.
i reported about five WPP schemes that specifically advertised for experienced people only the reply i got was dont bother applying for the position.

RichardAnd

carwash106 wrote: »

Thanks RichardAnd.

It amazes me how little a degree is worth, not only to employers but to a graduate when they realise they really know nothing!!

I know. I asked my boss why he hired me a few months after I started working for him and he said it was because of the experience I had (over 4 years all together in different areas), not my degree. The way I see it, one year of experience is worth more than a degree.

The_Honeybadger

danbohan wrote: »

of course we should make the employer continuie to pay inflated and unrealistic wages until his company is bankrupt and then everybody be out of a job !

So your solution is to let everybody go and let the state become the paymasters for the private as well as the public sector??

There is a reason that rule is in place, to stop abuse of the program. I agree that wages here are too high, but sacking people and replacing them with WPP workers is not a realistic way forward.

Stark

danbohan wrote: »

of course we should make the employer continuie to pay inflated and unrealistic wages until his company is bankrupt and then everybody be out of a job !

And how are more efficient companies supposed to compete with inefficient companies that are propped up with free State labour? I've seen Supervalu advertising for checkout staff on WPP. How is the Tesco across the road (making up an example) meant to compete with that? Result: Tesco shuts down and the taxpayer is left holding the bill for Supervalu's payroll. It's better to let Supervalu go the wall and let Tesco take its place while paying its own way.

RichardAnd

Stark wrote: »

And how are more efficient companies supposed to compete with inefficient companies that are propped up with free State labour? I've seen Supervalu advertising for checkout staff on WPP. How is the Tesco across the road (making up an example) meant to compete with that? Result: Tesco shuts down and the taxpayer is left holding the bill for Supervalu's payroll. It's better to let Supervalu go the wall and let Tesco take its place while paying its own way.

Agreed. However, I highly doubt anyone would that a WPP placement at a checkout.

milkybar kid wk

donkey balls wrote: »

nope the employer gets someone to work for them for nothing as the person is getting paid from the dept of social welfare.

yeah i was wondering would the employer have to pay prsi, i no that they wont have to pay wages but didn no about prsi, i even rang fas to find out and they couldn tell me, so boards was second in line so i thought if the employer paid prsi of about 5500 then the social welfare would be getting there money for your dole paid then they'd just divide that money to pay you with and it wouldn cost our lovely government your wage if you get me, now i havnt read all the posts my question may well have been answered already sorry for inconvenience
tnx for reply donkey balls

maninasia

carwash106 wrote: »

Interesting post.

Lots of people made good points, really made me think.

heres my experience..
im around a month into my graduate wpp1, im a recently graduated web developer working with a company now. So far im not really learning that much and seriously considering looking for a different placement. however i probably wont because

1. the half of the day im sitting around im doing personal learning, im going online and practicing what i do. im lucky that way that my chosen profession there is a certain amount of self taught stuff you can do
2. it still count as experience on paper and on your cv and ill stick the 9 month because i can learn on companies time.
3. i was sitting around at home anyway doing nothing, living cheaply doesnt bother me as i have applied for the full dole(was getting 95) and applying for rent allowance( dont even know will i get that)

Im not doing the whole coming in early and staying late thing because at the end of the day im working here for free, the reason i have so much time is because there isnt much work for me at all.

At the end of the day a lot of companies abuse it but if you can find a way to take advantage of it( any advantage - building your cv etc) . It doesnt feel very nice to work without pay but i have no choice at the moment.

You should get paid while getting experience, advertise your services online and work with a virtual team based in UK or overseas.

carwash106

maninasia wrote: »

You should get paid while getting experience, advertise your services online and work with a virtual team based in UK or overseas.

Hi

What do you mean exactly? how would i go about doing that?

RichardAnd

carwash106 wrote: »

Hi

What do you mean exactly? how would i go about doing that?

He means you could advertise your skills in web design freelance. In other words, do a few nixers. There are websites where you can bid to do commission work in computing though I do not know any off hand.

Tigs_

While our country is left (after the real hard working in ireland have to face yet another emmigration),we are stuck with the corrupt and grossly negligent FF buffons,FAS is corrupt just like the unreformed dail and their jobs for the boys ways.Ireland needs to open up.
Fas discriminates against travellers,working class(recently laid off workers) and the long term unemployed(those they are supposed to be helping.
The generate no money yet take the nicest wad of cash of our government ministers every year WITHOUT FAIL.
Supervisors who are bullying and corrupt go unchallenged even though they are the face of FAS.
All FAS courses are outdated,and most courses would not be welcomed in an interview (fetac or not)due to the corruption with the FAS courses Fiasco(eg tutours illegally passing students over the years).
Most employers see FAS experience as FALSE experience.FAS's real function in the boom years was there to bolster the welfare wages,now this will be cut to the same level as the dole..it just needs to be finalised,at least they can say they have made some saving in the dail next term i suppose,while making the umemployment stats look okay..
Fas is a scam it only benefits the local businesses getting free labour and the supervisor and managment who get thier wages.
As a result FAS generate little revenue yet still get a name change and yet more euro..Be under no illusion.
And our good friend of FAS paul o toole (former minister for toursim,where the fecking tourist paul...?huh??nowhere..and get this he was handed this job in the boom years!!)FFS!
for **** sakes!Lotta problems with FAS and they still get a good budget,why is this not questioned more aggressively??Paul o Toole may i remind you all folks racked up 50 on expenses one year on TRAVEL.
Yet he didnt increase the level of tourism in ireland,and he had prime oppurtunity to do so in the year of that celtic boom.
Fas can seriously damage your c.v know before you go!

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/97583

http://ciaranparker.com/2010/09/06/whats-in-a-name-2/

omukazy

Deleted User wrote: »

Its simply more state interference in the correction, propping up businesses by paying for employees only prolongs the necessary correction that recessions bring.

It is disgusting by the way. Its less than minimum wage - why didnt they get rid of the minimum wage? Why didnt they reduce the dole across the board and those who take up the WPP1 scheme get paid more as an incentive to work.

Anyone working under this scheme will feel undervalued when they work alongside people who are paid in full.

Quite simply its damn hard to make ends meet when your on the dole and paying for transport to and from work. Its merely a govt incentive for the young to emigrate

I recently took up the wpp programme but i feel **** working alongside people paid over 30 thousand a year... sometimes i dont even wanna wake up in the morning... get up at 6.30 am back at home at 6pm, and i spend 7euros on transport every day , to be honest theresnt any incentive and i might quit soon. I feel exploited.. :mad: i knw i went in there for experience but its not worth it esp for long 9months. Its easy to say one would work for free until you actually do it then u knw what its all about. I feel like a joke at work.

donkey balls

It must be a year since they rolled this farce out judging by the original op posting date, Does anyone know of someone who did these schemes and if so did they end up getting a job or did the experience help in any way?:rolleyes: