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FAS Work Placement Program

ThomasCreeby

In a time of deep recession I am absolutely baffled how the government can sponsor a program where by companies are paid to take on new staff, who can then work for said companies for periods of up to 12 months while receiving only their dole as compensation for working the guts of a 40 hour week.
Slave labour and the reduction of the minimum wage is already here and its called the FAS Work Placement Program.
I'm 24 years old and I've been unemployed for over a year and frankly I find it disgusting. I'm really sick of logging onto the FAS website and finding that 90% of the jobs they now advertise are WPP schemes.
What I find even more insidious however is that a person can have their Jobseekers Allowance cut if they are not prepared to be forced by the government to work for less than the minimum wage???
This is the type of "innovation" is emblematic of the Irish Government's attitude towards young people trying to find work.
How many of the companies who have signed up for cheap labour are actually that poorly off that they aren't arsed paying a receptionist or an admin?
The whole WPP stinks to high heaven of incompetence and wasted money, not to mention offering zero financial incentive to get people back to work.
Does anyone else think this entire scheme is comically inept at trying to achieve what it set out to or am I alone in thinking its a pile of b*%$cks?

Cheers Boards,

Thomas

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Pete_Cavan

donkey balls wrote: »

It must be a year since they rolled this farce out judging by the original op posting date, Does anyone know of someone who did these schemes and if so did they end up getting a job or did the experience help in any way?:rolleyes:

I am working on the WPP and am currently half way through my placement. Finished college last May and there was no chance of me getting a proper paid job in this country so I am glad to have this. Of course it would be nice to get more money but the company I am with give me a few pound every now and then, as any company with an ounce of decency should do for participants. Obviously the programme would be a lot more attractive if the employer had to contribute something but I dont really think it is the biggest issue, I would rather work than sit at home all day for the same money.

IMO the main problems with WPP is there is no guarantee you will get a permanent job out of it. There should be a rule excluding employers from taking on someone new on the WPP unless they have hired the previous participant on a full time basis. This would actually get people into real employment and prevent employers from taking advantage of the programme and taking on people for free which devalues the worth of labour. In the current situation you can just hire a person for free with no job prospects which is akin to slavery. Also I think it is important to ensure that the company has not let a paid employee go in order to use the WPP otherwise employers can sack people and set up a WPP merry-go-round with a new person every nine months.

The WPP should allow workers to progress their career and encourage companies to grow, not exploit workers and allow employers to flout labour laws.

RichardAnd

donkey balls wrote: »

Did anyone see the RTE news just now they are going to extend these schemes into schools and other public jobs.:eek:

I'd heard something to that effect mentioned in the budget. I don't know how they expect a teacher to work for free along side people getting 35-50k a year. Recession or not and putting aside any issues of PS wages, if the government want more staff for the public service then those staff should be paid a fair salary.

donkey balls

Did anyone see the RTE news just now they are going to extend these schemes into schools and other public jobs.:eek:

RichardAnd

omukazy wrote: »

I recently took up the wpp programme but i feel **** working alongside people paid over 30 thousand a year... sometimes i dont even wanna wake up in the morning... get up at 6.30 am back at home at 6pm, and i spend 7euros on transport every day , to be honest theresnt any incentive and i might quit soon. I feel exploited.. :mad: i knw i went in there for experience but its not worth it esp for long 9months. Its easy to say one would work for free until you actually do it then u knw what its all about. I feel like a joke at work.

This post illustrates the glaring problem with the WPP. Yes the experience will help a person get a job but working 40 hours a week for nothing is not healthy for the person in question and not good for society. It's not even very good for the employer either because an unpaid member of staff will feel under-appreciated, under-motivated and will likely not even respect nor feel grateful to their boss; none of these things will make a good employee.

I'm not a person with strong socialist views, in fact, I'm quite the opposite. However, one aspect of socialism I do agree with is that a person deserves to be paid for a day's work. The WPP needs to be looked at with the aim of getting the employer to contribute something to the WPP employee. Wanting to get paid for a job is not an unrealistic expectation, it's the very reason people work in the first place.

That being said, I have alot of respect for anyone who did take up a WPP placement. Working 9 months for nothing is something I simply wouldn't be able to do.

28064212

omukazy wrote: »

I recently took up the wpp programme but i feel **** working alongside people paid over 30 thousand a year... sometimes i dont even wanna wake up in the morning... get up at 6.30 am back at home at 6pm, and i spend 7euros on transport every day , to be honest theresnt any incentive and i might quit soon. I feel exploited.. :mad: i knw i went in there for experience but its not worth it esp for long 9months. Its easy to say one would work for free until you actually do it then u knw what its all about. I feel like a joke at work.

So ****ing quit.

donkey balls wrote: »

It must be a year since they rolled this farce out judging by the original op posting date, Does anyone know of someone who did these schemes and if so did they end up getting a job or did the experience help in any way?:rolleyes:

Yes. I did. ****ing hell, if you're not getting relevant experience, walk away. The company I had my placement with were great and provided excellent experience. Even if I hadn't been kept on after the placement finished, it would have been worth my while doing it.

Where are the people who finished their placement and feel they got shafted? It's a ridiculous question, since anyone is free to leave their placement at any time

donkey balls

It must be a year since they rolled this farce out judging by the original op posting date, Does anyone know of someone who did these schemes and if so did they end up getting a job or did the experience help in any way?:rolleyes:

omukazy

Deleted User wrote: »

Its simply more state interference in the correction, propping up businesses by paying for employees only prolongs the necessary correction that recessions bring.

It is disgusting by the way. Its less than minimum wage - why didnt they get rid of the minimum wage? Why didnt they reduce the dole across the board and those who take up the WPP1 scheme get paid more as an incentive to work.

Anyone working under this scheme will feel undervalued when they work alongside people who are paid in full.

Quite simply its damn hard to make ends meet when your on the dole and paying for transport to and from work. Its merely a govt incentive for the young to emigrate

I recently took up the wpp programme but i feel **** working alongside people paid over 30 thousand a year... sometimes i dont even wanna wake up in the morning... get up at 6.30 am back at home at 6pm, and i spend 7euros on transport every day , to be honest theresnt any incentive and i might quit soon. I feel exploited.. :mad: i knw i went in there for experience but its not worth it esp for long 9months. Its easy to say one would work for free until you actually do it then u knw what its all about. I feel like a joke at work.

Tigs_

While our country is left (after the real hard working in ireland have to face yet another emmigration),we are stuck with the corrupt and grossly negligent FF buffons,FAS is corrupt just like the unreformed dail and their jobs for the boys ways.Ireland needs to open up.
Fas discriminates against travellers,working class(recently laid off workers) and the long term unemployed(those they are supposed to be helping.
The generate no money yet take the nicest wad of cash of our government ministers every year WITHOUT FAIL.
Supervisors who are bullying and corrupt go unchallenged even though they are the face of FAS.
All FAS courses are outdated,and most courses would not be welcomed in an interview (fetac or not)due to the corruption with the FAS courses Fiasco(eg tutours illegally passing students over the years).
Most employers see FAS experience as FALSE experience.FAS's real function in the boom years was there to bolster the welfare wages,now this will be cut to the same level as the dole..it just needs to be finalised,at least they can say they have made some saving in the dail next term i suppose,while making the umemployment stats look okay..
Fas is a scam it only benefits the local businesses getting free labour and the supervisor and managment who get thier wages.
As a result FAS generate little revenue yet still get a name change and yet more euro..Be under no illusion.
And our good friend of FAS paul o toole (former minister for toursim,where the fecking tourist paul...?huh??nowhere..and get this he was handed this job in the boom years!!)FFS!
for **** sakes!Lotta problems with FAS and they still get a good budget,why is this not questioned more aggressively??Paul o Toole may i remind you all folks racked up 50 on expenses one year on TRAVEL.
Yet he didnt increase the level of tourism in ireland,and he had prime oppurtunity to do so in the year of that celtic boom.
Fas can seriously damage your c.v know before you go!

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/97583

http://ciaranparker.com/2010/09/06/whats-in-a-name-2/

RichardAnd

carwash106 wrote: »

Hi

What do you mean exactly? how would i go about doing that?

He means you could advertise your skills in web design freelance. In other words, do a few nixers. There are websites where you can bid to do commission work in computing though I do not know any off hand.

carwash106

maninasia wrote: »

You should get paid while getting experience, advertise your services online and work with a virtual team based in UK or overseas.

Hi

What do you mean exactly? how would i go about doing that?

maninasia

carwash106 wrote: »

Interesting post.

Lots of people made good points, really made me think.

heres my experience..
im around a month into my graduate wpp1, im a recently graduated web developer working with a company now. So far im not really learning that much and seriously considering looking for a different placement. however i probably wont because
the half of the day im sitting around im doing personal learning, im going online and practicing what i do. im lucky that way that my chosen profession there is a certain amount of self taught stuff you can do

it still count as experience on paper and on your cv and ill stick the 9 month because i can learn on companies time.

i was sitting around at home anyway doing nothing, living cheaply doesnt bother me as i have applied for the full dole(was getting 95) and applying for rent allowance( dont even know will i get that)

Im not doing the whole coming in early and staying late thing because at the end of the day im working here for free, the reason i have so much time is because there isnt much work for me at all.

At the end of the day a lot of companies abuse it but if you can find a way to take advantage of it( any advantage - building your cv etc) . It doesnt feel very nice to work without pay but i have no choice at the moment.

You should get paid while getting experience, advertise your services online and work with a virtual team based in UK or overseas.

milkybar kid wk

donkey balls wrote: »

nope the employer gets someone to work for them for nothing as the person is getting paid from the dept of social welfare.

yeah i was wondering would the employer have to pay prsi, i no that they wont have to pay wages but didn no about prsi, i even rang fas to find out and they couldn tell me, so boards was second in line so i thought if the employer paid prsi of about 5500 then the social welfare would be getting there money for your dole paid then they'd just divide that money to pay you with and it wouldn cost our lovely government your wage if you get me, now i havnt read all the posts my question may well have been answered already sorry for inconvenience
tnx for reply donkey balls

RichardAnd

Stark wrote: »

And how are more efficient companies supposed to compete with inefficient companies that are propped up with free State labour? I've seen Supervalu advertising for checkout staff on WPP. How is the Tesco across the road (making up an example) meant to compete with that? Result: Tesco shuts down and the taxpayer is left holding the bill for Supervalu's payroll. It's better to let Supervalu go the wall and let Tesco take its place while paying its own way.

Agreed. However, I highly doubt anyone would that a WPP placement at a checkout.

Stark

danbohan wrote: »

of course we should make the employer continuie to pay inflated and unrealistic wages until his company is bankrupt and then everybody be out of a job !

And how are more efficient companies supposed to compete with inefficient companies that are propped up with free State labour? I've seen Supervalu advertising for checkout staff on WPP. How is the Tesco across the road (making up an example) meant to compete with that? Result: Tesco shuts down and the taxpayer is left holding the bill for Supervalu's payroll. It's better to let Supervalu go the wall and let Tesco take its place while paying its own way.

The_Honeybadger

danbohan wrote: »

of course we should make the employer continuie to pay inflated and unrealistic wages until his company is bankrupt and then everybody be out of a job !

So your solution is to let everybody go and let the state become the paymasters for the private as well as the public sector??

There is a reason that rule is in place, to stop abuse of the program. I agree that wages here are too high, but sacking people and replacing them with WPP workers is not a realistic way forward.

RichardAnd

carwash106 wrote: »

Thanks RichardAnd.

It amazes me how little a degree is worth, not only to employers but to a graduate when they realise they really know nothing!!

I know. I asked my boss why he hired me a few months after I started working for him and he said it was because of the experience I had (over 4 years all together in different areas), not my degree. The way I see it, one year of experience is worth more than a degree.

donkey balls

danbohan wrote: »

of course we should make the employer continuie to pay inflated and unrealistic wages until his company is bankrupt and then everybody be out of a job !

are you for real?:eek: with the above statement? someone losses their job due to the employer looking for free labour, how to you know that the chap was on inflated wages to begin with.
do you want everyone to work for nothing, i reckon the chap that got let go could bring his employer to court over constructive dismisal, as for FAS you could tell them but i reckon you wont get very far with them.
i reported about five WPP schemes that specifically advertised for experienced people only the reply i got was dont bother applying for the position.

danbohan

mickeyk wrote: »

This is against the rules of the program, they clearly state that nobody can have been made redundant from any of the positions advertised in the previous year so he should report that. I'm not sure how good they are at following up this sort of thing so there is every possibility that FAS don't know that somebody had been laid off and that this is the reason there is a vacancy for a WPP candidate, that employer should't be allowed get away with it.

of course we should make the employer continuie to pay inflated and unrealistic wages until his company is bankrupt and then everybody be out of a job !

The_Honeybadger

alanajane wrote: »

my husband was laid off some months ago but two weeks after he was let go his job was advertised on Fas as a WPP, so there was work there for him but the company couldnt or wouldnt pay him. not fair

This is against the rules of the program, they clearly state that nobody can have been made redundant from any of the positions advertised in the previous year so he should report that. I'm not sure how good they are at following up this sort of thing so there is every possibility that FAS don't know that somebody had been laid off and that this is the reason there is a vacancy for a WPP candidate, that employer should't be allowed get away with it.

alanajane

my husband was laid off some months ago but two weeks after he was let go his job was advertised on Fas as a WPP, so there was work there for him but the company couldnt or wouldnt pay him. not fair

carwash106

RichardAnd wrote: »

Sadly though, when I left college I found out how little a degree is worth and couldn't find a job.

Thanks RichardAnd.

It amazes me how little a degree is worth, not only to employers but to a graduate when they realise they really know nothing!!

RichardAnd

carwash106 wrote: »

Haha good point, no one is being forced onto it.

Personally i was having an "easy" time of it at home when i couldnt find work but where would that leave me and the counrty for that matter, another person on the dole not bothering looking for work.

For personal development reasons i would say to any graduate who cant find work and are on the dole, find a wpp1 with a company in your field and stick with it for your own sake.
Try to ignore the feelings of lousiness that comes with the program because its not much more lousy than sitting at home when you want to be working.

With an attitude like that, you'll find a proper job, just might take some time.

I actually graduated from computer science too and like you, my area is web development. Sadly though, when I left college I found out how little a degree is worth and couldn't find a job. Rather than draw the dole, I joined a wedding band and made some good money until a job opportunity came up. Playing music might not be a full time job but it still gets you out, gets you thinking and earns you some cash.

Though I think the WPP needs serious revision I do second the bolded advice. Staying at home on the dole is the worst possible thing a graduate can do if they hope to find decent employment and anything else, even a FAS course, is preferable.

carwash106

RichardAnd wrote: »

No one is being forced onto the WPP.

Haha good point, no one is being forced onto it.

Personally i was having an "easy" time of it at home when i couldnt find work but where would that leave me and the counrty for that matter, another person on the dole not bothering looking for work.

For personal development reasons i would say to any graduate who cant find work and are on the dole, find a wpp1 with a company in your field and stick with it for your own sake.
Try to ignore the feelings of lousiness that comes with the program because its not much more lousy than sitting at home when you want to be working.

RichardAnd

jock101 wrote: »

Being forced to Work for nothing, is that not called Slavery:eek:.

No one is being forced onto the WPP.

Carwash106, your attitude is pretty much the same view I have come to have of the WPP. It's a bad idea really and it is being abused but I do admire you for making the best of it.

In Ireland, you will never beat the system and no matter how absurd it is, your best bet is to make it work for you.

jock101

Being forced to Work for nothing, is that not called Slavery:eek:.

carwash106

Interesting post.

Lots of people made good points, really made me think.

heres my experience..
im around a month into my graduate wpp1, im a recently graduated web developer working with a company now. So far im not really learning that much and seriously considering looking for a different placement. however i probably wont because

the half of the day im sitting around im doing personal learning, im going online and practicing what i do. im lucky that way that my chosen profession there is a certain amount of self taught stuff you can do
it still count as experience on paper and on your cv and ill stick the 9 month because i can learn on companies time.
i was sitting around at home anyway doing nothing, living cheaply doesnt bother me as i have applied for the full dole(was getting 95) and applying for rent allowance( dont even know will i get that)

Im not doing the whole coming in early and staying late thing because at the end of the day im working here for free, the reason i have so much time is because there isnt much work for me at all.

At the end of the day a lot of companies abuse it but if you can find a way to take advantage of it( any advantage - building your cv etc) . It doesnt feel very nice to work without pay but i have no choice at the moment.

donkey balls

milkybar kid wk wrote: »

does the employer have to pay PRSI for the employee

nope the employer gets someone to work for them for nothing as the person is getting paid from the dept of social welfare.

milkybar kid wk

does the employer have to pay PRSI for the employee

28064212

janice2 wrote: »

hi all i was just reading this thread and wondering if anyone knows if you can qualify for the fas work placement programme and get payment from social welfare without actually being on it at present? i have received a job offer for mid august basically on the condition of being on this programme. i know that you can get on the programme without being on social welfare but this basically means you would be working for free. I would need to get social welfare to cover my travel expences, survive etc but my worry is that i wouldnt be able to get it on this programme without being on the register for three months- ie not long enough to start in august ? does anybody know anything about this system? i dont want to miss out on this job with a potential longer contract just because of a technicality like this! have been unemployed since feb this year but didnt apply for the dole because living at home and didnt think i would be entitled to it? any help is much appreciated, thanks!

http://www.fas.ie/en/job+seeker/wpp/default.htm

Looks like you do have to be on the dole for 3 months, but talk to Fás, they may be able to help you. Maybe you would be allowed to start the placement, then apply for welfare straight after you start. Best option is to talk to Fás and find out

RichardAnd

janice2 wrote: »

hi all i was just reading this thread and wondering if anyone knows if you can qualify for the fas work placement programme and get payment from social welfare without actually being on it at present? i have received a job offer for mid august basically on the condition of being on this programme. i know that you can get on the programme without being on social welfare but this basically means you would be working for free. I would need to get social welfare to cover my travel expences, survive etc but my worry is that i wouldnt be able to get it on this programme without being on the register for three months- ie not long enough to start in august ? does anybody know anything about this system? i dont want to miss out on this job with a potential longer contract just because of a technicality like this! have been unemployed since feb this year but didnt apply for the dole because living at home and didnt think i would be entitled to it? any help is much appreciated, thanks!

You actually probably would but fair play to you for going out to work.

Unfortunately, I think you might be in trouble here because if I remember correctly, you need to be registered with FAS and have been out of work for a while before you can do the WPP. I could be wrong on this but I'm almost certain that you can't simply find a job and then apply for SW. Kind of crazy but that's FAS.

Your best bet is to give FAS a call and see what you can get out of them. Sorry I can't be of more help.