Waterford/Rosslare Strand Railway reaches the buffer stops (again)!

Transportuser09

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The line has been there over 100 years, im sure ever one knows about it now.

Locally probably. But when there was a service (via connections) from Arklow southwards to Waterford via this route many people were not aware of it.

Shayman

Transportuser09 wrote: »

Locally probably. But when there was a service (via connections) from Arklow southwards to Waterford via this route many people were not aware of it.

So the line was there a hundred years? Aer lingus is around fifty years and they still advertise all their routes heavily... Coca Cola, McDonalds... every other company even tho long established still advertise...That's business!

Run_to_da_hills

Shayman wrote: »

So the line was there a hundred years? Aer lingus is around fifty years and they still advertise all their routes heavily... Coca Cola, McDonalds... every other company even tho long established still advertise...That's business!

There is a difference, Aer Lingus didn't continuously run a stagnant service. They constantly changed and updated their routes to meet demand and attract new business.

The only way I could see the Rosslare line take off is to do the same and as I mentioned previously subsidies the summer months with heritage runs, this would attract much needed tourism to the hospitality industry along the route particularly in Waterford which has lost so much in recent years.

Shayman

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

There is a difference, Aer Lingus didn't continuously run a stagnant service. They constantly changed and updated their routes to meet demand and attract new business.

Exactly! CIE should be deciding to make it user friendly, affordble and advertise it. Make it attractive.

lord lucan

Don't forget to support the request for a Railway forum here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055835940

Carry on.:P

Judgement Day

Time for a funeral note from the excellent "Six Shooter" movie which was filmed on the South Wexford road. Note the steam heated Craven coach with MkIII style upholstery.

PS I claim the right ahead of the IRRS to fun a 'farewell' tour over the line!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8-t-Ynl1ic

steamengine

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The only way I could see the Rosslare line take off is to do the same and as I mentioned previously subsidies the summer months with heritage runs, this would attract much needed tourism to the hospitality industry along the route particularly in Waterford which has lost so much in recent years.

Something similar has happened in the West Cork area. Due to the fall off in tourism, some hoteliers and business people clubbed in to buy the new car ferry which now runs from Cork to Swansea. The idea is to bring the tourists back to that region.

In Rosslare the ferries are already in place. So does the railway route to Waterford have any tourist potential ??? What do hoteliers and other business people in the Rosslare area and along the route think ???

Would be interesting to hear their take on it ? What if any ideas Wexford and Waterford people might have on the future of this line ?

Run_to_da_hills

Judgement Day wrote: »

Time for a funeral note from the excellent "Six Shooter" movie which was filmed on the South Wexford road. Note the steam heated Craven coach with MkIII style upholstery.

PS I claim the right ahead of the IRRS to fun a 'farewell' tour over the line!

"Farewell" tour, ROFL,

This trip will no doubt be run in a Scania SC47or something similar leased from Bus Eireann. :pac:

Remember the WCR, they cancelled the last train.

lord lucan

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

"Farewell" tour, ROFL,

This trip will no doubt be run in a Scania SC47or something similar leased from Bus Eireann.

Or this:

Judgement Day

steamengine wrote: »

Something similar has happened in the West Cork area. Due to the fall off in tourism, some hoteliers and business people clubbed in to buy the new car ferry which now runs from Cork to Swansea. The idea is to bring the tourists back to that region.

In Rosslare the ferries are already in place. So does the railway route to Waterford have any tourist potential ??? What do hoteliers and other business people in the Rosslare area and along the route think ???

Would be interesting to hear their take on it ? What if any ideas Wexford and Waterford people might have on the future of this line ?

Well, I subscribe to the Wexford forum and I can tell you that they have zero posts on the subject - ditto the Waterford forum. There are no hoteliers along the route from Rosslare Strand to Waterford, it is/was beet growing country and sparsely populated. The tourist potential lies partially in the promoting of circular tours from Dublin etc out via Heuston/Kildare/Kilkenny/Waterford/Rosslare/Connolly; as a commuter link between Wexford and Waterford; as a link from the port to the West of Ireland.
The reason for so little activity on the ground in terms of complaints re the impending withdrawal of the rail service can be put down to the way CIE have killed the line by stealth. Few users so why would people get agitated about closure. If CIE are let get away with it, the line will end up in the same state as the 'mothballed' New Ross branch within ten years. The Barrow bridge will be condemned and the centre span removed as it will be a 'shipping hazzard' as happened to the Suir Rail bridge in Waterford. I am emailing the FG Transport spokesman, Fergus O'Dowd tonight and I will post his response here. That is the only thing that I can think of and if anybody else knows anybody in politics to contact I suggest you do it now. No point in speculating about J15s hauling packed specials of Craven coaches over the route - nobody's listening!

wild handlin

Judgement Day wrote: »

The Barrow bridge will be condemned and the centre span removed as it will be a 'shipping hazzard' as happened to the Suir Rail bridge in Waterford.

I thought the bridge needed to be opened/closed anyway as and when a ship was heading to New Ross??

Interesting to hear if you get a response...look forward to reading it!!

Judgement Day

Since my earlier post I have emailed Ciaran Cuffe (Green Transport spokesman); Fergus O'Dowd (FG Transport spokesman) and Tommy Broughan (Labour). Tomorrow morning I will be calling in to see my local FG TD (Paul Kehoe) at his clinic. Anybody else going to do anything practical?

Transportuser09

Judgement Day wrote: »

Since my earlier post I have emailed Ciaran Cuffe (Green Transport spokesman); Fergus O'Dowd (FG Transport spokesman) and Tommy Broughan (Labour). Tomorrow morning I will be calling in to see my local FG TD (Paul Kehoe) at his clinic. Anybody else going to do anything practical?

Excellent idea. The time to do something is now. Maybe, jsut maybe, with enough pressure something can be done to overturn this.

Run_to_da_hills

Transportuser09 wrote: »

Excellent idea. The time to do something is now. Maybe, jsut maybe, with enough pressure something can be done to overturn this.

People need to lobby the tourism board, anyone brought up the subject up on P.IE or the political forum?.

Judgement Day

Monday, March 8, 2010

End of the line for Rosslare Waterford Rail service

Posted by Joe at 11:35 PM Labels: Closure, Fianna Fail, Green Party, Irish Rail, railway, Rosslare, Waterford
Cynics say that you know when a rail line is set for closure because the station gets a new lick of paint. Naturally my concerns grew when I went to Rosslare Strand to see the Waterford platform was painted and resurfaced that there was something a foot. The line serves Wellington Bridge and connects a rural hinterland to Waterford. Many of these small villages have lost their bus service last year and now will see their rail service go. As recently as 1995 there were 3 return trains to Waterford.
Fair play to Brendan Howlin, he flushed Irish Rail out. I’ve seen the correspondence from Irish Rail. They are seeking to put an alternative in placed for their passengers and are offering workers either a severance package or a transfer. The letter to Deputy Howlin is signed by a senior manager in Irish Rail. The fate of the line that links Wexford to Waterford, Cork, Limerick & Galway is sealed. After over 100 years the line will close.
I’ve blogged this matter before, I’ve explained how management blew €30K on taxi fares because they timetabled a Waterford crew to take the train to Rosslare after the last bus returned to Waterford. A Wexford crew was a possibility. I’ve also said how they never promoted the line despite fares being less than Bus Eireann. The timetable was altered making it awkward for passengers to sprint to Plunket Station for the train home.

I’ve written to the Transport Minister as well as the 2 greens who passed the book to Irish Rail. The greens are ostensibly a party of public transport and it is to their shame that they never lifted a finger to stop Irish Rail management. Not so much as a tweet out of Senator Dan Boyle. FF have no policy other than nationally saying one thing while Sean Connick TD touted by some as a possible Minister saying something else. If he’s appointed a Minister will he reverse this decision?

McCarthy called for the lines closure and now we’re starting to see McCarthy by stealth. Despite the fact that the train in to Waterford has a loyal passenger base each morning and is always at least half full and was reliable rail passengers from Wexford will now be faced with gridlock on the Ferrybank dual carriageway in order to get to work. I’ve travelled on that line twice in the 18 months. I’ve seen its potential. So too has RTE’s “Nationwide” which reported positively 4 weeks on the route. Run trains from Wexford to Limerick Junction. Allow connections to the Western Rail Corridor. Where’s the vision with Irish Rail?
Instead over time the line will deteriorate, sleepers will rot and ultimately it will be impossible to re-open a service along the line. Brendan Howlin will raise the matter on the adjournment on Tuesday night in Dail Eireann. Lets see what the Minister says in response.




http://cllrjoeryan.blogspot.com/2010/03/end-of-line-for-rosslare-waterford-rail.html


In my opinion, for what it's worth, Joe is just another politician trying to make a name for himself but who has given up the cause even before he starts, plus he doesn't fully know what he is talking about.

dowlingm

I fookin 'ate local councillors. All mouth and no wallet.

munchkin_utd

from todays indo

The move comes after a reduction in funding to Iarnrod Eireann which had its annual subvention reduced to €276m, down €27m. In addition the sugar beet freight business, which sustained the viability of the line, ceased in 2006 after Irish Sugar closed.

Crazy.
Theres hardly a breakdown somewhere of where Irish Rail was managing to burn 303 million euro a year?
Does that include the major upgrade projects + new lines/ stations?
I'd love to know what this line was costing in yearly maintenance and day to day running costs.

Judgement Day

munchkin_utd wrote: »

from todays indo
Crazy.
Theres hardly a breakdown somewhere of where Irish Rail was managing to burn 303 million euro a year?
Does that include the major upgrade projects + new lines/ stations?
I'd love to know what this line was costing in yearly maintenance and day to day running costs.

The annual €300 million or so subvention paid to CIE does NOT include capital projects such as the WRC, Midleton, Dunboyne, new rolling stock etc.

steamengine

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

There is a difference, Aer Lingus didn't continuously run a stagnant service. They constantly changed and updated their routes to meet demand and attract new business.

The only way I could see the Rosslare line take off is to do the same and as I mentioned previously subsidies the summer months with heritage runs, this would attract much needed tourism to the hospitality industry along the route particularly in Waterford which has lost so much in recent years.

As you mention it, I travelled on the RPSI's 'Sea Breeze' special from Dublin to Rosslare strand last summer. It's a classic scenic route all the way as East Coast commuters would know.

The journey was split into 2 parts, Dublin / Wexford return and Wexford / Rosslare Strand return. The train almost emptied in Wexford but filled up again with loads of punters for the Rosslare journey. The platform was packed with people taking pictures of the the engine (2-6-4T) NO 4. The kids were delighted, possibly their first encounter with a real Thomas the Tank Engine.

As it trundled down the quays - the heads were really turning. Most of the passengers on this part of the journey were from Wexford and surrounds with a few tourists thrown in. If that doesn't indicate tourist potential - what does ???

All I've got to say is "The irony of it all ".

Judgement Day

There's now a Facebook page to save the Rosslare/Waterford Railway see here: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=info&ref=nf&gid=367387502018

And I'm off to Fine Gael Chief Whip (Paul Kehoe's) clinic now - expect to see hourly services on the route after my meeting. :rolleyes:

Run_to_da_hills

Judgement Day wrote: »

There's now a Facebook page to save the Rosslare/Waterford Railway see here: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=info&ref=nf&gid=367387502018

And I'm off to Fine Gael Chief Whip (Paul Kehoe's) clinic now - expect to see hourly services on the route after my meeting. :rolleyes:

Will it be overhead or third rail?

Judgement Day

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Will it be overhead or third rail?

Well, that was quick and unproductive. Clinic moved to a new location months ago - despite what his website says - and time brought forward by an hour so was closed when I got there. I will pursue by email and post during the week.

Hungerford

What gets me is that nobody seems to have figured out what the wider gameplan is yet...

Judgement Day

Hungerford wrote: »

What gets me is that nobody seems to have figured out what the wider gameplan is yet...

The closure of the entire rail system outside the Greater Dublin Area - by stealth or stupidty - take your pick. Say what you like about Mary Harney, she maybe making a hash of the Health Service but at least she is in the thick of it, unlike Dempsey who only appears when there is some positve PR to be had.

Off to watch the rugby now so keep the pot boiling until I get back.

lord lucan

Anyone fancy a spin over the DSE? How about the soon to be closed South Wexford and over to Waterford? Roll on May 7th.:)

http://www.steamtrainsireland.com/downloads/mayrailtour/2010_dalriada_southwexford.pdf

Run_to_da_hills

lord lucan wrote: »

Anyone fancy a spin over the DSE? How about the soon to be closed South Wexford and over to Waterford? Roll on May 7th.:)

http://www.steamtrainsireland.com/downloads/mayrailtour/2010_dalriada_southwexford.pdf

Cravens/Parkroyals or Mk3's?
I like the breeze in my face

GM071class

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Cravens/Parkroyals or Mk3's?
I like the breeze in my face

The RPSI Mk.2a's actually....

Anyway, with regards to the line closure, although it's a pity, it almost seemed that it was doomed to failure from the start.
Very poor planning by IE in terms of timetables, crewing arrangements, motive power, and publicity, aren't the only reason for the Line's poor performance.

Low passenger numbers, little to no foot passengers from Sailings to Rosslare, and lets be fair, for a rail service to break-even it really needs to centers of medium sized populations to work between.

I can't help but suppose that if the Sugar Beet campaigns of years gone by hadn't been running, the line would've been closed years ago.
It's still funny to believe that 2 or 3 years ago was talk of the 'bad' decisions of the 60's to close many rural lines, and how we were going to re-instate them.

Is this a little bit of history repeating itself?


Regards,
Matt,

FlameoftheWest

GM071class wrote: »

Very poor planning by IE in terms of timetables, crewing arrangements, motive power, and publicity

More like very effective sabotage.

GM071class

FlameoftheWest wrote: »

More like very effective sabotage.

That's the one!

dowlingm

The problem with IE is that they are a TOC and a network operator. In the UK, the line would be left open, the TOC could just apply to vacate the route but it would be left clear for a new entrant. The historical reality is that IE keeps a degree of secrecy over its decisions appropriate for an entity in competition with other operators but inappropriate for the operator of major infrastructure, because they have shown themselves to be not trustworthy when they claim that alignments on suspended routes will be kept in good order (see Midleton, for instance) or will not be compromised (Foynes). NRA would not be able to simply close a road and let it rot without consequences and public examination.

I'm not convinced of the viability of Rosslare-Waterford passenger operations and am not instinctively convinced the best option isn't to get rid and use the equipment and crew elsewhere (such as a Carlow-Kilkenny-Waterford service to arrive approx 0830), but I do think IE haven't tried hard enough to make it work.

But there is a strategic aspect to the line's existence as a back way out of the Wicklow line that in the context of the Malahide viaduct and the trapping of equipment should not be discounted - especially since trains trapped south of Bray have no traincare depot to retreat to. That strategic decision should be made by a separate network operator (which as I have suggested before could be a division of NRA) in accordance with the EU directive, not by a fella juggling crew schedules.