Waterford/Rosslare Strand Railway reaches the buffer stops (again)!

Judgement Day

parsi wrote: »

You mean that all those Enniscorthians who travelled to Waterford by train never came home ? Ever ? That must be a fierce population drain..:D

Well I suspect that I was the only user of the service as IE never told anybody about it, cancelled it for weeks at a time and I have declined to use the one way service since it was introduced. I even offered to come back the same day via Heuston if they would sell me a day return to Waterford at €18.50 or something like that.

KC61

Shayman wrote: »

Well it would be wouldn't it? Rosslare > Waterford. Now if someone put on the thinking cap and ran it from Wexford where there's slightly more people......

Eh it did run from Wexford with a connection at Rosslare Strand in the mornings for two years and in ran direct in the evenings in the opposite direction (albeit with a trip down to Rosslare Harbour and back in the evenings).

KC61

Shayman wrote: »

So you're telling me they do one trip park the train and get a taxi home? So who does the return trip? The journey time is only 70 mins?

Also re your previous post, they do park busses in Wexford rail station overnight so there shouldn't be a problem parking a train too?

No they used to go the trip from Waterford to Rosslare, then go to Enniscorthy, then come back to Rosslare and then they got a taxi back to Waterford.

See above for what happens now.

Southsider1

KC61 wrote: »

No they used to go the trip from Waterford to Rosslare, then go to Enniscorthy, then come back to Rosslare and then they got a taxi back to Waterford.

See above for what happens now.

So basically all they need do is set up the timetable properly and we're sorted?

Judgement Day

KC61 wrote: »

When it was possible to do the trip in both directions the numbers were very very negligible by all accounts. There were no regulars!

I was a regular, on an irregular basis, as the train was frequently cancelled for weeks at a time. Nobody was told of its existence and who but a half mad enthusiast would get up to catch a train from Enniscorthy to Waterford at 06.25? Just under two hours for the train - the bus does the journey in 1 hour. That said, if you were working or going to college in Waterford there is no bus between Enniscorthy and Waterford before 11.24 am.

The fact is that a proper service from Connolly to Waterford would be an attractive operation even with the crap line speeds that currently available. I think that I worked it out that anyone living south of Bray would be quicker going to Waterford via Rosslare Strand than via Connolly and transfering to Heuston. Even one train a day!

Of course any railway company with half a brain would see the tourist potential of running a 'Radio Train' type operation Heuston/Waterford/Rosslare/Connolly - along two of the most scenic routes in the country. I myself was looking at the possibility of operating such tours initially chartering carriages on scheduled services but when they started dicking about with the timetable and introduced the ****e Commuter railcars I threw my hat at it. I have hired and operated specials on CIE/IE before so I'm not just ranting here!! I even had a guidebook set to go to print. Is it any wonder I'm ffing mad with the useless bxxxxtdds. They couldn't run a piss up in......Then you get that unelected, useless bint in the ARAS telling us to get off our arses and come up with ideas to save the country.FFS!!!!:mad::mad::mad:

KC61

Judgement Day wrote: »

I was a regular, on an irregular basis, as the train was frequently cancelled for weeks at a time. Nobody was told of its existence and who but a half mad enthusiast would get up to catch a train from Enniscorthy to Waterford at 06.25? Just under two hours for the train - the bus does the journey in 1 hour. That said, if you were working or going to college in Waterford there is no bus between Enniscorthy and Waterford before 11.24 am.

The fact is that a proper service from Connolly to Waterford would be an attractive operation even with the crap line speeds that currently available. I think that I worked it out that anyone living south of Bray would be quicker going to Waterford via Rosslare Strand than via Connolly and transfering to Heuston. Even one train a day!

Of course any railway company with half a brain would see the tourist potential of running a 'Radio Train' type operation Heuston/Waterford/Rosslare/Connolly - along two of the most scenic routes in the country. I myself was looking at the possibility of operating such tours initially chartering carriages on scheduled services but when they started dicking about with the timetable and introduced the ****e Commuter railcars I threw my hat at it. I have hired and operated specials on CIE/IE before so I'm not just ranting here!! I even had a guidebook set to go to print. Is it any wonder I'm ffing mad with the useless bxxxxtdds. They couldn't run a piss up in......Then you get that unelected, useless bint in the ARAS telling us to get off our arses and come up with ideas to save the country.FFS!!!!:mad::mad::mad:

I was more thinking of people travelling from Wexford to Waterford and v.v. to be honest in my post above.

No I wouldn't expect too many people to do that trip from Enniscorthy.

My own ideas for how the line could have been operated would have been as follows:

1) Train operates existing services from Rosslare (connection from Wexford) at 0700 to Waterford.
2) An additional service leaves Waterford at 0830ish and operates to Connolly via Rosslare Strand.
3) The 1630 Connolly-Wexford extends to operate to Waterford via Rosslare Strand.
4) The existing set operates a Waterford/Wellingtonbridge return before returning to Rosslare (connecting with Dublin bound train at Rosslare Strand).
5) After crew change new crew operate to Waterford (connection from Dublin at Rosslare Strand), then short trip to Wellingtonbridge and back before returning to Wexford at 1800 before returning to Rosslare.

Points 2 and 3 are scuppered by a lack of 22K units but all the others are possible.

The lack of local marketing was atrocious.

It was publicised clearly in the public timetable by the redesign of the route timetable, but they needed advertising.

KC61

Southsider1 wrote: »

So basically all they need do is set up the timetable properly and we're sorted?

Not quite as easy as that.

Basically they would need new train crews in Rosslare to operate a sensible service and I figure that involved some costs!!

There are also eleven manned level crossings on the route, the gatekeepers are a further restriction on the hours the line can be open.

The line is a hugely costly one to maintain even before you begin to argue over the somewhat pathetic timetable that has been operated on the route. There's the Barrow Bridge, the eleven gatekeepers, the signalmen - for a line with one train each way it is extraordinary that it has lasted this long. Reason = Sugar Beet.

Judgement Day

Of course, if there had been any serious attempt at drawing up a proper Transport 21 plan instead of the back of an envelope job that it is, the reinstatement of the direct line linking the Wexford/Rosslare Strand line from Felthouse Junction to Killinick Junction on the Rosslare Strand/Waterford line would have been on it. This link which only operated from 1906-1911 was just over 2 miles in length and the trackbed runs through an unpopulated area and reinstatement would have been a straightforward matter. Of course a company such as CIE which has been committed to removing all rail links not running directly off the Dublin hub would have no interest in this idea. The useless politicians in the South East along with the useless politicians in the rest of the country bear ultimate responsibility for the CIE dinosaur.

JHMEG

If there were 6 trains a day each way I somehow doubt the passenger numbers would still be more than double.

Aside from pensioners and the odd student that doesn't have a car who wouldn't drive? Waterford station is badly located relative to the city, so it's not attractive for day trips. And not even in the running for anyone who would like to travel on to Tramore or anywhere else by bus (West Waterford etc) for that matter since the bus station was moved down the quays.

Even the college and all major industry are on the other side of the city.

There probably would be noticeable increases on Fri and Sun tho.

Running Connolly/Rosslare/Waterford is creative accounting, but it's a nice idea.

Judgement Day

JHMEG wrote: »

If there were 6 trains a day each way I somehow doubt the passenger numbers would still be more than double.

Aside from pensioners and the odd student that doesn't have a car who wouldn't drive? Waterford station is badly located relative to the city, so it's not attractive for day trips. And not even in the running for anyone who would like to travel on to Tramore or anywhere else by bus (West Waterford etc) for that matter since the bus station was moved down the quays.

Even the college and all major industry are on the other side of the city.

There probably would be noticeable increases on Fri and Sun tho.

Running Connolly/Rosslare/Waterford is creative accounting, but it's a nice idea.

Of course there is a limited local market for this route - school/college students/workers and shoppers - cater for them, add in the extra potential traffic from a Connolly/Waterford service, proper onward connections from Rosslare to Limerick etc, a possible CIE operated circular tourist service and the line has a fighting chance. But, why would CIE management do this as most of them are marking time until their pensions, the operating staff for the lump and the disgraceful board members their next nice little earner on some other semi-state board. Meanwhile operations are cancelled, people lie on trollies for hours in A+E, special needs assistants are withdrawn and all due to rubbish organisations like CIE. That is the bottom line - they are unaccountable to anybody.

Incidentally, there is no earthly reason why a shuttle bus could not operate from the station to the City centre in Waterford. God help us there is no reason why IE don't start running their own bus services too - you know train to Waterford - bus link to Tramore etc. Must send that idea to Mary and Martin at the Aras.

Hungerford

KC61 wrote: »

The line is a hugely costly one to maintain even before you begin to argue over the somewhat pathetic timetable that has been operated on the route.

Ahem... I think that CIE are responsible for the cost aspect by not upgrading the signalling, the crossings or the track and then expecting one service a day to cover all its running costs.

Even if they were running full 29K railcars on the route, it would be unviable under the current regime.

Obviously Dick Fearn has been studying his Closure by Stealth manual from his BR days.

KC61

Hungerford wrote: »

Ahem... I think that CIE are responsible for the cost aspect by not upgrading the signalling, the crossings or the track and then expecting one service a day to cover all its running costs.

Even if they were running full 29K railcars on the route, it would be unviable under the current regime.

Obviously Dick Fearn has been studying his Closure by Stealth manual from his BR days.

Could you justify the investment needed to do that for just one train each way?

Shayman

KC61 wrote: »

Could you justify the investment needed to do that for just one train each way?

That's not the point. If they did sort it out properly and added trains at sensible times and price and even a little bit of promotion then it would be at least in with a good chance. Remember they're soon opening a line from Ennis to Galway so in theory a train could run from Wexford/Rosslare to Galway direct....

Judgement Day

KC61 wrote: »

Could you justify the investment needed to do that for just one train each way?

Is that you Barry?

KC61

Shayman wrote: »

That's not the point. If they did sort it out properly and added trains at sensible times and price and even a little bit of promotion then it would be at least in with a good chance. Remember they're soon opening a line from Ennis to Galway so in theory a train could run from Wexford/Rosslare to Galway direct....

With the best will in the world, and I am highly critical of IE management with regard to this service they have offered, but you will never have large numbers using this line by any standards. The population density is just too low, and the line goes too far south to Rosslare Strand to make the Wexford/Waterford journey time be competitive with the roads.

Southsider1

KC61 wrote: »

With the best will in the world, and I am highly critical of IE management with regard to this service they have offered, but you will never have large numbers using this line by any standards. The population density is just too low, and the line goes too far south to Rosslare Strand to make the Wexford/Waterford journey time be competitive with the roads.

But not all services are going to be profitable but that's why a Govt company runs it and not a private entity. That's also why they have the railcar trains so they can use one or two carriages. And, as I said before if it was scheduled at realistic times and promoted at least it would be in with a chance. ?

Cookie_Monster

better times and smaller, lighter, less expensive to run stock would solve this problem.

Why do IE think that they have to run a 2/3 car train on the line? They do have sinlge car DMUs and could probably pick up cheap railbuses like BR 142's to make it viable

FlameoftheWest

Notice how the instant reaction to CIE closing it is a heritage railway...


Here's a thought CIE/Irish Rail managers. A bit radical, perhaps even bordering on psychotic to you lot. But it would seem to me that implementing a service which might be useful to people would boost the passenger numbers.

*sound of a rusty door hinge creaking back and forth...*

JHMEG

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

better times and smaller, lighter, less expensive to run stock would solve this problem.

Why do IE think that they have to run a 2/3 car train on the line? They do have sinlge car DMUs and could probably pick up cheap railbuses like BR 142's to make it viable

What's the point in running a bus on a road that has 11 manned level crossings and an expensive bridge that needs to be maintained, when you can run the bus on a road that someone else maintains and you paid a tiny fee a year to use.

I'm all for rail transport, and I'd like to see IE trial a 6 train a day each way service that connects well with other services for a year. If the patronage levels don't increase to any meaningful level then let a bus operator run the route instead.

munchkin_utd

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

better times and smaller, lighter, less expensive to run stock would solve this problem.

Why do IE think that they have to run a 2/3 car train on the line? They do have sinlge car DMUs and could probably pick up cheap railbuses like BR 142's to make it viable

What I mentioned before, that could be looked at in Ireland, was the train/tram idea to allow running across the bridge right into to Waterford city (also would be an idea in Cork, so long as they dont build on the yard behind Kent station).
Karlsruhe pioneered it and theres a version which is more train than tram developed by siemens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RegioSprinter

Run_to_da_hills

A few months ago IR proposed these for use on the Limk Junction line.



I couldn't see anything wrong with them as they could reach Waterford city center for improved catchment, I could also see no reason why they couldn't replace cumbersome manually operated level crossings with half barriers operated remotely from the cab.

loyatemu

Census 06

Wexford - 18000
Rosslare - 1300
Rosslare Harbour - 1000
Bridgetown - 202
Wellingtonbridge - doesn't exist according to the CSO, but < 500 I'd say
Ballycullane - 219
Campile - 347
Waterford - 46000

there's other villages near the line like Kilmore, Ballyhack etc - none of them have a population over 500. The only way you could have any sort of volume of passengers on the line is with a decent Wexford - Waterford service, but even this would not generate huge numbers and with the indirect routing it could never compete with road options.

The line's not remotely viable. Closing it would leave the Wexford line (like the Sligo line) as a long isolated branch but Irish Rail probably don't think its worth keeping it open just for that reason.

munchkin_utd

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I couldn't see anything wrong with them as they could reach Waterford city center for improved catchment, I could also see no reason why they couldn't replace cumbersome manually operated level crossings with half barriers operated remotely from the cab.

the quote of the article

The rail bus, similar to an ordinary mini bus, is able to drive on either railways or roads and
Irish Rail believes its capacity of about 20 seats would meet demand.

alpha2zulu

From RTE today.

Iarnród Éireann has confirmed it is considering closing the Waterford to Rosslare rail line.
A spokesperson told RTÉ News this afternoon that a decision will be made within the next few weeks.
The spokesperson added that revenue only covers 2% of the cost of keeping the line open.
Advertisement

The line runs between Waterford city and Rosslare port, with trains stopping at towns and villages in south Wexford. It has been in operation since 1906.
There is currently a morning commuter service from Rosslare to Waterford, with a return service in the evening.
Iarnród Éireann is surveying remaining passengers regarding alternative arrangements and said that workers will be offered either a transfer or a severance package.
Wexford Labour Cllr Joe Ryan said Iarnród Éireann is failing the people of south Wexford abysmally.
He said: 'When they introduced a commuter service to Waterford from Wexford they made no effort to promote the service in the local media.
'To undermine the viability of the service, they rostered a Waterford crew on the service and as a consequence taxi bills for returning crews from Rosslare Harbour to Waterford exceeded revenues generated by the commuter service.'

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0312/rail1.html

I just find it laughable that they have spent over 100million reopening a branch line out west with 5 services a day and Sunday services yet they seem to be doing whatever they can to run the Waterford-Rosslare line into the ground.

JHMEG

they rostered a Waterford crew on the service and as a consequence taxi bills for returning crews from Rosslare Harbour to Waterford exceeded revenues generated by the commuter service.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

What a way to run a railway!

dowlingm

I'm sceptical about railbuses, and especially for Limerick Junction-Waterford because if the eastern Dublin-Cork platform at LJ was built including a short but extendable platform on the Waterford line I believe it would have a significant impact on what could be done operationally (although the flat junction would always involve some constraints) and thus the possible attractiveness of the line.

From what I've read so far, railbuses tend to have inferior ride quality due to the use of wheels rather than bogies and if the units didn't have a toilet then use over a distance is likely out of the question.

I'd be willing to try it out on Waterford-Rosslare as well as lines that aren't open now, such as Claremorris-Athenry, Mullingar-Athlone, Navan-Kingscourt, Midleton-Youghal, Limerick-Adare if converting the level crossings to automatic traffic lights and removing the current signalling truly saved enough money to pay the operating costs and safe maintenance of pricey bits (like the Barrow bridge).

However, what would be simpler still would be to just allow IE to run roadbuses under its own name to provide integrated feeder service, off peak service and inter-line connections such as a bus from Mullingar-Tullamore-Portlaoise-Carlow-Enniscorthy.

Southsider1

A friend was on the bus eireann bus from Waterford to Wexford today and says Driver told them the route was going to be cut to two services a day 1 morning 1 evening.

Transportuser09

As someone else said earlier, maybe if they ran extra services during the day it would help. It would at least sort out the staff issue. And a bit of advertising/make locals know about the line would be a good idea.

Run_to_da_hills

Transportuser09 wrote: »

And a bit of advertising/make locals know about the line would be a good idea.

The line has been there over 100 years, im sure ever one knows about it now.

More about promoting of streamlining existing timetables to coincide with other connections.

Hungerford

KC61 wrote: »

Could you justify the investment needed to do that for just one train each way?

My point is that no line would be viable with the service provided by IE at the moment.