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Waterford/Rosslare Strand Railway reaches the buffer stops (again)!

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,316 KC61


    JHMEG wrote: »
    People that use that service tend to get on it at Railway Square (terminus of the old Waterford-Tramore line), not bus or rail station. (Tradition?)


    Along with local city services run by BE, both of which have been there for at least 20 years.

    The bus station is way up the quay from the above.

    (EDIT: Waterford has the longest inland quay in Europe.)

    I was only pointing out that fact that four services from Tramore continue to the rail station., but are only FROM Tramore - bizarrely nothing starts at the station going to Tramore!


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭✭✭ KenGriffin


    Good post DW - looks like Ken Griffin would be worth contacting.

    I normally only lurk here occasionally but I would like to reassure everyone that I am in regular touch with all parties regarding this issue.

    Obviously, as Derek points out, my coverage is constrained by the arguments put forward by either side and space considerations.


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭ jkmanc1974


    KC61 wrote: »
    Just a quick update on this. I did some further investigating, and can tell you that you were overcharged.

    The day saver fare from Waterford to Limerick Junction is only EUR 10.80. The 5 day return from Limerick Junction to Thurles is EUR 17.30, so the total that you should have been charged was EUR 28.10. The booking clerk should have checked this.

    There are exceptionally low promotional fares on the line from Rosslare to Limerick. However, they are mainly between stations on that route and also to stations south of Limerick Junction (Waterford-Cork is EUR 20 day return), together with journeys from Carrick-on-Suir, Clonmel, Cahir and Tipperary to Dublin, which are only EUR 24 day return.

    Unfortunately the promotional fares do not stretch to intermediate stations north of Limerick Junction, but the booking clerk should still have the cop on to check whether issuing two separate tickets would have been cheaper than issuing the standard 5-day return. This is part of the problem with this railway line. There are exceptionally good value fares available but you cannot find out about them easily.

    Looking for a price from Dublin to Clonmel on Tuesday, cheapest is 42 Euro on line!!!!

    Brgds
    Johnny


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,316 KC61


    jkmanc1974 wrote: »
    Looking for a price from Dublin to Clonmel on Tuesday, cheapest is 42 Euro on line!!!!

    Brgds
    Johnny

    The promotional fares are only available from the stations on the route itself, i.e. Rosslare Harbour-Limerick Junction.

    They are not available online, nor are they valid from Dublin Heuston - only in the opposite direction.

    Classic Irish Rail.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭ JHMEG


    KC61 wrote: »
    I would suggest that it's more convenient than the railway station on the far side of the river from where customers have to cross a busy 4 lane road and a very windswept bridge.
    And I agree, but it's not hugely more convenient. The more I think about it I'm starting to think the Bus Station was only built because the country was awash with money and building stuff was in vogue. It wasn't the optimal solution.
    KC61 wrote: »
    My reference to students going to/from WIT was made with those travelling into Waterford on one of Bus Eireann's local services and connecting - not those using the city service to start with.
    As I write this from Waterford I notice that the college has upgraded its car parking facilities, again. It was badly served by an irregular bus service 20 years ago.. you reap what you sow I guess.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭ dowlingm


    There is no justification for not permitting the booking of on-line fares in all categories, except retaining justification for manned booking offices.

    Booking offices should not be manned, stations should be. An IR employee walking the platforms, assisting with TVMs and where the TVM breaks down opening up the booking office to issue tickets.

    This South Wexford bus replacement thing really needs watching, especially what route the replacement takes, since as I pointed out you can't take a standard BE bus from Campile to Waterford except via New Ross because the ferry can't take it. If the bus is a failure and withdrawn, this just means abandonment of the catchment rather than going back to trains.

    This is a link being ripped out of the IE network both operationally in terms of a back door from the frequently closed Wicklow line and in terms of being able to make cross-radial connections. If CIE actually operated a single website where you could make the most convenient connection/fare by bus or train to anywhere in the country, such as bus Rosslare-Waterford and then onward by train to Carlow or Limerick it would be one thing but instead people are being pushed to the bus which is a direct competitor with no benefit to the train operation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭ dowlingm


    JHMEG wrote: »
    As I write this from Waterford I notice that the college has upgraded its car parking facilities, again.
    They probably got a capital grant to do that. They wouldn't get a penny to subvent BE to increase frequency, and it would probably get tied up in a tendering mess.

    Ireland's cities need Transportation Authorities with route licencing (but not operator licencing) powers and the ability to accept co-payments from industries and institutions who would prefer to spend money on more buses than more car parking/taxing those who just tarmac more land.


  • Registered Users Posts: 912 Hungerford


    Just one small thing that CIE seem to have forgotten - I think they need to tender for a bus sub-contractor to take over the service on the route:

    Under EC 1370/2007:
    The selection of a subcontractor by the competent authority or its internal operator needs to be carried out in accordance with Community law.

    I suspect that the contract may well be worth over €50,000 per year, which would require IE to advertise it throughout Europe. Remember they had to do that for the Malahide viaduct.


  • Registered Users Posts: 912 Hungerford


    Another interesting point: the Acts regulating the NTA make no reference to public consultation or notice periods - the NTA can change PSOs at will. Surely that's totally illegal under EU law?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 674 Southsider1


    KC61 wrote: »
    The promotional fares are only available from the stations on the route itself, i.e. Rosslare Harbour-Limerick Junction.

    They are not available online, nor are they valid from Dublin Heuston - only in the opposite direction.

    Classic Irish Rail.

    There is no ticket office at Rosslare Harbour is there? If so where? Also I found out last week that you can't buy a ticket for any station on the Tipperary to Rosslare line from the machines at Heuston or Limerick Junction.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭ dowlingm


    @Hungerford I seem to remember there was something about IE/NTA not including Limerick Junction-Rosslare in their agreement...


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,552 ✭✭✭ lord lucan


    IE already out with the "We'll review it if demand justifies it" line. Lame attempt at appeasing the natives!!:rolleyes:

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/iarnrod-eireann-to-review-railway-line-closure-453309.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,316 KC61


    There is no ticket office at Rosslare Harbour is there? If so where? Also I found out last week that you can't buy a ticket for any station on the Tipperary to Rosslare line from the machines at Heuston or Limerick Junction.

    In that case you buy on board the train from the ticket checker.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 674 Southsider1


    KC61 wrote: »
    In that case you buy on board the train from the ticket checker.

    Ah, thanks very much!


  • Registered Users Posts: 912 Hungerford


    To be frank, I am surprised about how poor the campaign from the likes of RUI has been to date. It has received surprisingly little coverage and points such as the fact the route is quicker than road haven't even been explored.

    And it's not like they can afford to take a relaxed attitude to this. I've just been looking through the list of officially open but mothballed lines. This is the fate that Rosslare-Waterford may have in store:

    Tralee - Fenit: Suggested by IE as a heritage railway after closure. Line never lifted or officially closed but a shopping centre somehow ended up on the trackbed just outside Tralee station. Whoops!

    Limerick - Foynes: One visit by a weedsprayer then nothing. IE suddenly discovered that something happened to a bridge and forgot to repair it. Line disconnected from network last year. Heavily overgrown. Whoops!

    Navan - Kingscourt: One visit by a weedsprayer then nothing. IE suddenly discovered that something happened to a bridge and forgot to repair it. They seem to be very unlucky when it comes to bridges. Anyway, Line disconnected from network last year. Heavily overgrown. Whoops!

    Waterford - New Ross: In fairness, they did weedspray it until the line became so dangerous that a locomotive expired on it. Instead of fixing the issue, they forgot to repair it. Mysteriously, some of the track was lifted despite the absence of a closure order. Once again, disconnected from network last year. Heavily overgrown. Whoops!

    Mullingar - Athlone: IE's maintenance crew must be so unlucky. Guess what? When it came to spraying this line, they had something better to do that day. They actually came back one day and found that the line was still connected but that it had become impassible. Whoops!

    Midleton - Youghal: Disconnected from network last year. Trackwork has been 'borrowed' from this section over the years. They keep on misplacing it though. Guess what, it's extremely heavily overgrown. Whoops!

    Claremorris - Collooney: This is still officially open. Anyway, IE's maintenance crew realised that letting householders taking over part of the alignment would make their jobs easier. This innovative move meant that they had to spend a fortune clearing it to satisfy those WOT types.

    These guys are so accident prone. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 912 Hungerford


    dowlingm wrote: »
    @Hungerford I seem to remember there was something about IE/NTA not including Limerick Junction-Rosslare in their agreement...

    It's more interesting than that. Someone seems to have forgotten to publish Schedule A - the standards that IE have to adhere to in terms of service and routes. Quite odd how these accidents keep on happening around here:

    http://www.nationaltransport.ie/Contracts/IR_contract.pdf


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,821 ✭✭✭✭ Our man in Havana


    Waterford - New Ross: In fairness, they did weedspray it until the line became so dangerous that a locomotive expired on it. Instead of fixing the issue, they forgot to repair it. Mysteriously, some of the track was lifted despite the absence of a closure order. Once again, disconnected from network last year. Heavily overgrown. Whoops!
    It is disconnected alot longer than that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 912 Hungerford


    Bond-007 wrote: »
    It is disconnected alot longer than that.

    They only pulled up Abbey Junction recently. They severed the track ages ago but maintained the pretence that it was connected to the network until then.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 674 Southsider1


    I think what CIE needs is a Michael O'Leary or Willie Walsh type to take it by the scruff of the neck. Cut through all the Union bullsh1t, tear out the waste and streamline the operation. Revise the ticketing systems, and generally shake it up a bit... I was amazed to hear that there are three separate boards in CIE - the main CIE board and one each for BE and IE... Absolute madness!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 Judgement Day


    I think what CIE needs is a Michael O'Leary or Willie Walsh type to take it by the scruff of the neck. Cut through all the Union bullsh1t, tear out the waste and streamline the operation. Revise the ticketing systems, and generally shake it up a bit... I was amazed to hear that there are three separate boards in CIE - the main CIE board and one each for BE and IE... Absolute madness!

    Forget about the union bull**** - first get rid of ALL the management - then deal with the unions who, in fairness, only look out for their members wellfare i.e the lump (severance packages) as everbody at non-management levels knows that they are just marking time until their clock arrives.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭ JHMEG


    I think what CIE needs is a Michael O'Leary or Willie Walsh
    Or ideally someone with Thatcher's balls. Not sure MOL or WW would be up to it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭ JHMEG


    Hungerford wrote: »
    Claremorris - Collooney: This is still officially open. Anyway, IE's maintenance crew realised that letting householders taking over part of the alignment would make their jobs easier. This innovative move meant that they had to spend a fortune clearing it to satisfy those WOT types.
    Drove over this recently in part of rural Co Sligo. Didn't realise at first what it was - thought it was a BnM line as the land around it is appallingly bad... so bad that I thought it was bog. Pretty obvious after you see the bit that I did how it got its nickname.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,552 ✭✭✭ lord lucan


    JHMEG wrote: »
    Drove over this recently in part of rural Co Sligo. Didn't realise at first what it was - thought it was a BnM line as the land around it is appallingly bad... so bad that I thought it was bog. Pretty obvious after you see the bit that I did how it got its nickname.

    Here's a pic from Carrowmore on the Burma Road,says it all really!:D

    http://www.eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/C/Carrowmore/slides/DSC05461.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,821 ✭✭✭✭ Our man in Havana


    That bit is in surprisingly good nick considering the state of some other closed lines.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 Judgement Day


    The track doesn't look much different to when I travelled over it on the 30th November 1981 in a special inspection car trip organised by Fr.McGreil of WRC fame - sorry DW! Apart from the rain, my abiding memory is of running down a flock of sheep as we approached Claremorris on the return journey - very unpleasant.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 DWCommuter


    The track doesn't look much different to when I travelled over it on the 30th November 1981 in a special inspection car trip organised by Fr.McGreil of WRC fame - sorry DW! Apart from the rain, my abiding memory is of running down a flock of sheep as we approached Claremorris on the return journey - very unpleasant.

    No worries JD I was only 10 years of age and did not foresee how caught up in this mess I would be.

    Hungerford has made a great post there in relation to how care and maintenence is handled. Sums it up perfectly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭ dermo88


    DW Commuter.

    Your post in relation to this line on railusers.ie sums up the issue very well. As normal, no holds barred, said as it is, no nonsense. It might not be polite, but its what is required to get the message across.

    Someone mentioned Michael O'Leary, or "someone with Thatchers balls". I have constantly predicted that this would be the end game with CIE/IE. Finally we see that privatisation is not the bogeyman constantly shown by the media, or unions. If CIE do not wish to operate the line properly, then a private operator, under contract can.

    We are seeing a repeat of the same 'closure by stealth' policies employed by British Rail in the 1980's, with the likes of the Leeds-Settle-Carlisle line.

    Instead of Ribblehead viaduct, we see the Barrow viaduct.

    The lines 'raison d'etre' with the demise of Sugar Beet traffic was in question from 2006 onwards. I do ask, can it be rescued. I say, with proper timetabling and competitive timings it certainly can.

    Closing the route would reduce in minimal savings compared with the overall budget of CIE/Iarnrod Eireann.

    There is the potential for a decent cross country service from Arklow-Wexford-Waterford-Limerick-Cork and Galway. Whether it can compete with roads is another matter.

    I would like to see it saved, but in the context of Iarnrod Eireanns benign neglect of this route and others, I can only conclude that privatisation of the routes CIE does not wish to operate is a desirable outcome.

    Should it require, as I have advocated in the past, a strike, a lockout, or the removal of entrenched elements awaiting their final payoff and pension, so be it. Then, at least professional managers and workers can work in partnership to make this route and others succeed. Is that too much to ask?

    Frankly, nothing else will remove the poisonous cancer of CIE from Irish society. A recession, as it was in 1971, 1981, and the early 2000's has always been a catalyst for a cold hard analysis of the rail network, transportation policy, and change.

    Whether it is for the better or worse, remains to be seen. I remain cautiously optimistic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,638 Zoney


    dermo88 wrote: »
    I would like to see it saved, but in the context of Iarnrod Eireanns benign neglect of this route and others, I can only conclude that privatisation of the routes CIE does not wish to operate is a desirable outcome.

    Why do you conclude that? It would cost less to pay CIE directly for each such route than pay a private operator to run it (and that is what would be happening, it's make-believe to think a private company would make money overall without getting it from the government). Even on busy services in the UK the taxpayer is having to subsidise private operators plus Network Rail overall more than they ever did with BR.

    I agree with splitting Iarnród Éireann into a public infrastructure owner and an entirely separate public services operator though, and indeed having provision for private operators to run certain routes if they want (even though I see it as merely a mechanism for crony capitalism, there should at least be a framework in place in case of some kind of genuine possibility for a privately run service).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭ dermo88


    Give me crony capitalism compared to the crony socialism. Do you see the "workers" protesting at the closure of this route.

    No

    They are salivating like rabid dogs at the prospect of redundancy payments.

    I mean, 11 level crossings have to be individually manned on the 30 mile route. Level crossings was one major element which killed off Mallow to Waterford in March 1967, they are expensive to maintain.

    Privatisation is not a panacea per se, and its not an ideal solution. But take the reality. We have a state owned operator, succeeding in failure.

    With a private operator, you set down in stone the improvements and servce provision required. The local authorities and/or central government help pay for the improvements. It is locally accountable. The services meet at Waterford, Wexford, Limerick Junction. New drivers could be employed based from Wexford. Imagine....they could even be stakeholders in a new operation.

    This is what was done in Sweden, Germany, Denmark. It can be done here, or can we just proceed in copying the worst of our neighbours mistakes, and ignoring the improvements of the best?

    We have seen what CIE is. Its a corrupt gravy train. The economic boom and the consistent wastage of money were able to conceal a multitude of errors. Now, the piper has to be paid. Surely.....there is a better way.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,821 ✭✭✭✭ Our man in Havana


    When the traffic on the line stops, I would assume that signal persons and crossing keepers will still report for duty as normal. From what I am reading there will just be no scheduled services and the line will be open.

    They are not going to save alot so.


This discussion has been closed.
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