Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

Idbatterim

bonnie is there any talk of it being driverless? what are the hours of operation likely to be, as someone who lives along the green line, I hope it starts running later than 12:30am! the taxi drivers are going to love this! LOL

thomasj

https://dublingazette.com/news/people-fingal-dont-believe-metro-north-will-ever-happen/

D.L.R.

Couple of points from Bonnie's tantalising info.

If you put MN stations at Tara + SSGE, route DU as planned but moving SSG east also, then you create a crucial interchange triangle between Pearse, Tara and SSG, right in the heart of the city. An interchange triangle is the best way to integrate 3 lines. This is a superior option to the original DU/MN plans in that respect.

Routing MN west of O'Connell is the wrong call. Mass transit serving the heart of the city centre is fundamental to Dublin's future progress. Interchanging w/ the Dart line in the CBD would be much more advantageous, and while regenerating west of OCS is of course a good idea, it is losing sight of what's really important - mass transit right through the CBD.

bk

Thanks for the great info Bonnie

Of the routes offered, this would be my preferred route:

Route 3: Balheary P+R >>> Swords/Airside/Swords Central >>> Airport >>> Dardistown >>> Gullivers >>> Santry >>> DCU >>> Millmount >>> Drumcondra >>> Mountjoy Square >>> Tara >>> St Stephen's Green East >>> Charlemont etc...

Though I'd replace Mountjoy Square with Parnell St.

I assume Dardistown is another P+R, not much there at the moment.

Also disappointed to see Griffith Avenue dropped. I've long thought Griffith Avenue is a fine wide road, with plenty of space for an orbital bus service linking down to Clontarf DART station.

My ideal based on these would be:

Balheary P+R >>> Swords/Airside/Swords Central >>> Airport >>> Dardistown P+R >>> Gullivers >>> Santry >>> DCU >>> Griffith Avenue Millmount >>> Drumcondra >>> Parnell St >>> Tara >>> St Stephen's Green East >>> Charlemont etc...

Maybe with a walkway under O'Connell Bridge from Tara, linking the two sides of the river.

BTW I think route 1 would be a big mistake. It completely misses the point of serving the CBD.

Khuitlio wrote: »

-Would there be a proposed interchange with Dart Underground?

Perhaps they are thinking of scraping DU and going with the idea I had last week of replacing it with an East - West Metro line with a stop at Tara!

plodder

thomasj wrote: »

https://dublingazette.com/news/people-fingal-dont-believe-metro-north-will-ever-happen/

I guess remarks like this are easily taken out of context, but .....

Paschal Donohoe wrote:

“If we were to encounter the bones of a Viking or anybody else God forbid it would cause difficulties for the project.

marno21

I don't see the point of an E/W Metro. Surely this is just a duplication of the Red Line?

The benefit of DART Underground is increasing suburban rail access and connectivity, a S Bahn of sorts. A Metro would not have the same benefits

bk

marno21 wrote: »

I don't see the point of an E/W Metro. Surely this is just a duplication of the Red Line?

The benefit of DART Underground is increasing suburban rail access and connectivity, a S Bahn of sorts. A Metro would not have the same benefits

I agree that DU would be better. However if it continues to get long fingered due to the involvement of CIE, then this would be the next best thing. It avoids all the issues with IR and the unions.

Of course it would roughly follow the same corridor as the Red Luas Line, it wouldn't be quiet the same. It would service different stations, south of the river, rather then north.

Also it solves the issue of the Red Line already being overcapacity.

Folk from other commuter services would simply transfer onto this Metro at Hueston, etc. to get further into the city. I agree not ideal, but not the end of the world either.

Also, it opens up the possibility of extending Metro both East (into the Docklands and new high rise developments there) and West, to new areas not currently served by rail (Liffey Valley, Lucan, maybe a spur to Blanchardstown).

Again, I'm not saying it is the best option or even likely to happen, but given the politics involved, I wouldn't be super surprised if it happened either.

D.L.R.

A triangle of interchanges at Pearse/Tara/SSGE would be preferable to one triple interchange at Tara.

No reason a Light Rail/Metro version of Dart Underground couldn't follow the existing route.

thomasj

bk wrote:

Also, it opens up the possibility of extending Metro both East (into the Docklands and new high rise developments there) and West, to new areas not currently served by rail (Liffey Valley, Lucan, maybe a spur to Blanchardstown).

Does that maybe sum up why our transport system is such a disaster.

The largest suburb in the city , larger than most towns and cities in the country and its passed the 100k population and has many multinational companies as well as local owner , yet it's transport infrastructure is a disgrace and with regards to planning it's an afterthought.

LeinsterDub

plodder wrote: »

I guess remarks like this are easily taken out of context, but .....

Not too many Vikings lived 30 metres under the surface .

Grandeeod

bk wrote: »

I agree that DU would be better. However if it continues to get long fingered due to the involvement of CIE, then this would be the next best thing. It avoids all the issues with IR and the unions.

You have been mentioning this CIE/Union thing for a while now in relation to DU as if it's fact. While there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the CIE group and in this particular instance IR, is a complete and utter mess, there is no sustantive evidence that the Government are long fingering DU because of CIE. You are making assumptions and ignoring historical evidence of very poor attitudes from successive Governments towards major rail based infrastructural projects. We have yet to deliver one, unless you count the original DART project, which I don't.

You are talking as if MN is a done deal and the current Government are committed to it. What the current Government are doing is a useless exercise. They are redesigning a single metro line that was originally conceived by a Government lead by a different party. That different party is currently propping up the Government and yet they don't display any concern at all towards this blatant fudging. Why? Because political parties don't really care about projects like MN or DU. There is a neurotic disorder in Irish politics when it comes to a single transport infrastructure project thats costed in the billions. I have absolutely no doubt that MN will go through all the processes it went through before and then...nada. DU will continue to be sidelined, because politicians still fail to understand it and think a metro is some kind of shiny new concept that Dublin needs at the expense of DU.

You do realise that we are actually experiencing a complete replication of what happen 14 years ago in relation to both projects? This is obvious wash, rinse, repeat stuff. Blatant to those of us around here long enough.

bk

Grandeeod, I totally understand your pessimism. We have all been here before.

However this time Metro North really does seem to be gaining true momentum. This time around the political pressure is there to get it done.

Leo is now Taoiseach, he is going to be fighting an election in 3 years time. And unless they are digging a hole for Metro North by then, he is going to be in serious trouble having cancelled the original MN.

You also have to remember that he is young, only 38, he will likely be around for the next 25 years. He has to get MN done or it will haunt him for the rest of his political career. He won't get way with the usual short term political thinking.

Luas Cross City will be done by the end of the year and beyond that there will then be no major infrastructure projects in Dublin or the country in general under construction and frankly other then MN and M20, non planned. If with the economy on the up again and traffic as bad as ever, come 3 years time they simply won't get elected again unless these projects are seriously happening.

The difference is that MN was previously a vague promise, while they were busy distracted building motorways and Luas lines. It isn't vague anymore, it is now a political imperative.

Their is a lot to criticise about Irish politics, but one thing I know from personal experience, once both a Taoiseach and Minister for Finance row behind a project, it lights a fire under everyone and it gets done.

Hey, I could be totally wrong. After all I'm just some random, anonymous guy on the internet! All we can do is wait and see, but things are definitely looking vastly more positive then they did just 6 months ago.

As for DU, I'm sorry but the reason it is being sidelined is all too obvious.

Irish Rail is €150 million in debt and facing bankruptcy. CIE overall has serious pension issues and DART drivers are still refusing to operate the 10 minute DART schedule after the government spent millions on the city center resignalling project. All on top of the BE strike just a few months ago.

You'd be mad to pour 3+ billion into that crowd!

BTW As to your point of us not delivering major rail projects, that simply isn't true!

The two Luas lines and now LCC are major rail projects! Just because they aren't heavy rail doesn't make them not rail. I'll remind you that each Luas line carries as many passengers as the DART. The DART carries 17 million people per year. Each Luas line carries about the same. And together both Luas lines carry 34 million people a year which is quiet a bit more then both Dart and commuter rail combined!

And this is before we even open LCC, never mind MN!

The truth is once MN is built, Luas + Metro is likely to be carrying two to three times as many passengers per year as IR do and if IR/CIE don't get their act together, they may just end up being increasingly sidelined and left to being a relic of the past.

Harsh I know, but just the reality of the situation being faced.

LXFlyer

bk you seem to be ignoring the fact that LUAS staff had a protected and very nasty strike as well - this isn't something restricted to the CIE Group.

IE is currently in the throes of trying to negotiate a pay deal (which I suspect will inevitably lead to some form of strike action before finally reaching a resolution).

The bottom line is that the there is a total reluctance to invest properly in heavy rail at a time when it is critical to the future of Dublin transport.

The notion that heavy rail can just be sidelined is fanciful in the extreme.

bk

lxflyer wrote: »

bk you seem to be ignoring the fact that LUAS staff had a protected and very nasty strike as well - this isn't something restricted to the CIE Group.

Ah.. I was waiting for someone to bring that up

I think you know perfectly well that that strike came about when the lads from the CIE unions tried to "infect" the Luas drivers with the same mindset and work them up to make similar ridiculous claims, 60% pay increases!

Well it didn't go so well, the government were having non of it, faced it down and in the end the drivers accepted less then what they were originally offered, minus bonus payments. In the end it was a face saving exercise for those unions, but it really didn't go the way they expected.

We then got an even bigger repeat of that with the BE strike. Their it didn't go at all the way that the unions expected and thoroughly damaged the union movement.

We will see how the upcoming Irish Rail strike goes, but they better watch out, I suspect the government is feeling very confident after the BE strike!

And after having said all that, is any surprised that the government is extremely reluctant to invest in CIE! Honestly, who could blame them!

Grandeeod

bk wrote: »

Grandeeod, I totally understand your pessimism. We have all been here before.

However this time Metro North really does seem to be gaining true momentum. This time around the political pressure is there to get it done.

Leo is now Taoiseach, he is going to be fighting an election in 3 years time. And unless they are digging a hole for Metro North by then, he is going to be in serious trouble having cancelled the original MN.

You also have to remember that he is young, only 38, he will likely be around for the next 25 years. He has to get MN done or it will haunt him for the rest of his political career. He won't get way with the usual short term political thinking.

Luas Cross City will be done by the end of the year and beyond that there will then be no major infrastructure projects in Dublin or the country in general under construction and frankly other then MN and M20, non planned. If with the economy on the up again and traffic as bad as ever, come 3 years time they simply won't get elected again unless these projects are seriously happening.

The difference is that MN was previously a vague promise, while they were busy distracted building motorways and Luas lines. It isn't vague anymore, it is now a political imperative.

Their is a lot to criticise about Irish politics, but one thing I know from personal experience, once both a Taoiseach and Minister for Finance row behind a project, it lights a fire under everyone and it gets done.

Hey, I could be totally wrong. After all I'm just some random, anonymous guy on the internet! All we can do is wait and see, but things are definitely looking vastly more positive then they did just 6 months ago.

As for DU, I'm sorry but the reason it is being sidelined is all too obvious.

Irish Rail is €150 million in debt and facing bankruptcy. CIE overall has serious pension issues and DART drivers are still refusing to operate the 10 minute DART schedule after the government spent millions on the city center resignalling project. All on top of the BE strike just a few months ago.

You'd be mad to pour 3+ billion into that crowd!

BTW As to your point of us not delivering major rail projects, that simply isn't true!

The two Luas lines and now LCC are major rail projects! Just because they aren't heavy rail doesn't make them not rail. I'll remind you that each Luas line carries as many passengers as the DART. The DART carries 17 million people per year. Each Luas line carries about the same. And together both Luas lines carry 34 million people a year which is quiet a bit more then both Dart and commuter rail combined!

And this is before we even open LCC, never mind MN!

The truth is once MN is built, Luas + Metro is likely to be carrying two to three times as many passengers per year as IR do and if IR/CIE don't get their act together, they may just end up being increasingly sidelined and left to being a relic of the past.

Harsh I know, but just the reality of the situation being faced.

I'll agree to differ with you on many aspects, particularly the political ones. But my bolded part of your post has to be challenged. I specifically made the point that politicians do not entertain rail infrastructure projects costed in the billions. Neither the original red and green luas lines reached that figure and LCC isn't near it either. The luas in general is a mickey mouse project. But start putting rail tunnels under Dublin and you get into real grown up stuff that our political class can't handle. I have no political allegiance so I don't care what age Leo is or what you may think his stratedgy may be regarding re-election. They are all cut from the same cloth and still stuck in an electoral system that prevents them from doing anything of substance in relation to rail transport.

For the record, I'm anti CIE/IR and have been banned numerous times for expressing that viewpoint and offending their fanboys. However I firmly believe that the political class still fail to understand the massive importance of DU. Furthermore FG have an historical issue with CIE and their time in Government since the foundation of CIE is littered with negativity towards them, because it was FF that established CIE in the first place. Politics, politics, politics! A change of Government and your argument could be out the window. That's how its done in Ireland and I hate it.

Grandeeod

bk wrote: »

Ah.. I was waiting for someone to bring that up

I think you know perfectly well that that strike came about when the lads from the CIE unions tried to "infect" the Luas drivers with the same mindset and work them up to make similar ridiculous claims, 60% pay increases!

Well it didn't go so well, the government were having non of it, faced it down and in the end the drivers accepted less then what they were originally offered, minus bonus payments. In the end it was a face saving exercise for those unions, but it really didn't go the way they expected.

We then got an even bigger repeat of that with the BE strike. Their it didn't go at all the way that the unions expected and thoroughly damaged the union movement.

We will see how the upcoming Irish Rail strike goes, but they better watch out, I suspect the government is feeling very confident after the BE strike!

And after having said all that, is any surprised that the government is extremely reluctant to invest in CIE! Honestly, who could blame them!

As much as it pains me to admit it, the luas drivers still managed to get something out of it. The union and union mentality are still inside the luas camp to a degree. If you think SIPTU/NBRU won't infiltrate MN if built, then you are misguided. The entire CIE brand and its prehistoric union set up needs to be tackled and dragged out of the early 20th century. Its a culture that has already proven that it can infect any new concept.

LXFlyer

bk wrote: »

Ah.. I was waiting for someone to bring that up

I think you know perfectly well that that strike came about when the lads from the CIE unions tried to "infect" the Luas drivers with the same mindset and work them up to make similar ridiculous claims, 60% pay increases!

Well it didn't go so well, the government were having non of it, faced it down and in the end the drivers accepted less then what they were originally offered, minus bonus payments. In the end it was a face saving exercise for those unions, but it really didn't go the way they expected.

We then got an even bigger repeat of that with the BE strike. Their it didn't go at all the way that the unions expected and thoroughly damaged the union movement.

We will see how the upcoming Irish Rail strike goes, but they better watch out, I suspect the government is feeling very confident after the BE strike!

And after having said all that, is any surprised that the government is extremely reluctant to invest in CIE! Honestly, who could blame them!

The LUAS workers still ended up with a very good deal for themselves at the end of the strike, after some very bitter picket lines by LUAS staff. Lets not try and paint it any other way. It was a very nasty dispute.

The original claim was nothing more than an opening salvo, and no one took that seriously. But the final deal they got was a very good one (in my personal view it was still excessive and has caused major problems for the CIE Group).

We are going through a process of pay & conditions negotiations across the transport sector, and that will reach a conclusion sooner rather than later.

As Grandeeod has posted, FG have never been particularly in favour of any form of investment in heavy rail over the years, and I don't see major signs of that changing - they just don't get it, and our current Taoiseach has a particular aversion to that mode.

Not investing in DART Underground and the Commuter Rail network is going to come home and bite them.

Arthur Daley

plodder wrote: »

Where roughly is the Swords/Airside/Swords Central stop located? I presume it is one stop to cover all of those areas? Thx.

If it becomes one stop for the whole of swords, they are wasting our time and money. Swords would warrant 3 stops for a proper metro service. Otherwise swords express will just kill it as they have stops every few hundred metres and get you into O'Connell bridge in about 20 minutes in comfort. Seriously though, what is metro north adding here?

bk

Grandeeod wrote: »

I'll agree to differ with you on many aspects, particularly the political ones. But my bolded part of your post has to be challenged. I specifically made the point that politicians do not entertain rail infrastructure projects costed in the billions. Neither the original red and green luas lines reached that figure and LCC isn't near it either. The luas in general is a mickey mouse project. But start putting rail tunnels under Dublin and you get into real grown up stuff that our political class can't handle. I have no political allegiance so I don't care what age Leo is or what you may think his stratedgy may be regarding re-election. They are all cut from the same cloth and still stuck in an electoral system that prevents them from doing anything of substance in relation to rail transport.

Ah, got you.

In fact our governments have never built a billion+ project of any type, not just rail.

The intercity motorway network ended up costing more then 8 billion! But they were able to break it up into many phased smaller projects so that it never sounded that big.

But I think you are forgetting that when we first started building roads, there was just as much fear and trepidation until the first ones started coming in on time and budget and we got use to it and no one barely comments on new roads projects now.

Then there was the 700 million port tunnel and all the fear mongering around that.

You might think Luas is mickey mouse, but when it was first being built, there was just as much fear about it and lots of negative press etc. until it got done, was a successes and now there is complete public support for new Luas lines.

We are now facing this fear all over again. 1 billion+ projects and going underground.

But we really have no choice, we have run out of the "easy", "cheap" projects and have little choice but to start entering the big boy leagues and start on these big projects now.

We will get use to them just like we got use to building roads and Luas lines. Hopefully MN pops our underground cherry and it will in turn pave the way for DU, etc.

BTW you may say Luas is mickey mouse. But each Luas lines still manages to carry as many people as DART does every year! That is damn impressive. I'd like to see a lot more "mickey mouse" projects like that!

Grandeeod wrote: »

Furthermore FG have an historical issue with CIE and their time in Government since the foundation of CIE is littered with negativity towards them, because it was FF that established CIE in the first place. Politics, politics, politics! A change of Government and your argument could be out the window. That's how its done in Ireland and I hate it.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Yes FF was less interested in facing down CIE unions and was happier to pay off the unions to keep them quiet. But I also saw little interest from FF in wanting to invest in IR. I think FF saw CIE to be as a big a pain in the backside as FG do, they just have a different way of handling them.

During the BE strike, FF barely commented on it or supported the strikers in any meaningful way.

And don't forget it was FF who created the RPA out of CIE and gave the go ahead to the Luas and it was again FF who created the NTA. FF has been quietly dismantling CIE for years behind the scenes!

bk

Arthur Daley wrote: »

If it becomes one stop for the whole of swords, they are wasting our time and money. Swords would warrant 3 stops for a proper metro service. Otherwise swords express will just kill it as they have stops every few hundred metres and get you into O'Connell bridge in about 20 minutes in comfort. Seriously though, what is metro north adding here?

I don't think Bonnie meant that there will be one stop in Swords, just wasn't given details as to exactly where each stop is.

MJohnston

I think the biggest change around Metro North this time is basic political and media pressure - the first part comes from the housing crisis, and the second part comes from capturing opportunities from Brexit. I reckon both these things are just about enough extra to get this bumped up in priority.

plodder

Arthur Daley wrote: »

If it becomes one stop for the whole of swords, they are wasting our time and money. Swords would warrant 3 stops for a proper metro service. Otherwise swords express will just kill it as they have stops every few hundred metres and get you into O'Connell bridge in about 20 minutes in comfort. Seriously though, what is metro north adding here?

That's how it looked to me anyway, but it's impossible to know what we are looking at until we see authoritative plans.

medoc

What a difference..... Reading the reports of the last few days, Londons crossrail 2 is almost as close as our Metro North is, and they are still only finishing the construction of cross rail 1. I know the uk economy is massive compared to ours but so is the scale of their projects.

strassenwo!f

marno21 wrote: »

Balheary is a townland directly adjacent to the M1 Lissenhall Interchange (J4). Fairly good location for a P&R.

Yes, I am now aware where Balheary is. I never felt there was a need for a change from the original 'Lissenhall' P + R, but it's all broadly sensible stuff.

marno21 wrote: »

Charlemont etc refers to the plan by the NTA to convert the segregated Green Line south of Charlemont to Metro to tie in with Metro North. This would appear correct given that TII are trademarking "Dublin Metro" instead of "Metro North".

I've no problem with the metro heading south from St. Stephen's Green, and I am in favour of it doing so. But there are large areas of Dublin south which do not have a LUAS or a metro. This could be a great opportunity for it to serve those areas.

marno21 wrote: »

Having a high capacity N/S line from Lissenhall to Fassaroe would be a major major leap forward in the long term, and would be phenomenal in reducing traffic on the M1, M50 and M11. Now all we need is a E/W line to tie in with it.

I disagree here, for several reasons, unfortunately too many to develop properly here.

It would, in my opinion, be an error, probably a very significant one, to build a metro line between Lissenhall (or, apparently, Balheary) and Fassaroe. This would broadly be parallel to the DART line, albeit a bit inland.

If a metro line is built in Dublin - for example between the centre and the Airport/Swords - it will be a major success. There is no doubt about this. There will then be a call for the metro to go towards the southwest of the city, a metro to connect Finglas and its environs with the city, and so on.

These will all be valid, and in my opinion it is currently valid for places like Terenure and Finglas to ask what is happening for their areas in all these big schemes.

Saying that 'All we need is an East/West line to tie in with it (the Swords'/Airport metro) significantly misses a major issue, which is an effective tie-in with later metro lines to/from places like Terenure and Finglas.

How do you effectively tie in a metro line towards Terenure and a metro line towards Finglas with a line which is going between Fassaroe and Lissenhall?

marno21

strassenwo!f wrote: »

I disagree here, for several reasons, unfortunately too many to develop properly here.

It would, in my opinion, be an error, probably a very significant one, to build a metro line between Lissenhall (or, apparently, Balheary) and Fassaroe. This would broadly be parallel to the DART line, albeit a bit inland.

If a metro line is built in Dublin - for example between the centre and the Airport/Swords - it will be a major success. There is no doubt about this. There will then be a call for the metro to go towards the southwest of the city, a metro to connect Finglas and its environs with the city, and so on.

These will all be valid, and in my opinion it is currently valid for places like Terenure and Finglas to ask what is happening for their areas in all these big schemes.

Saying that 'All we need is an East/West line to tie in with it (the Swords'/Airport metro) significantly misses a major issue, which is an effective tie-in with later metro lines to/from places like Terenure and Finglas.

How do you effectively tie in a metro line towards Terenure and a metro line towards Finglas with a line which is going between Fassaroe and Lissenhall?

By the time the Metro project opens, the Green Line will be over capacity again, after it's umpteenth upgrade. Further expansions south of Sandyford especially around Cherrywood, increased use from BXD and overall general growth will have it bursting at the seams. Metrification is a welcome step here.

Metros for Terenure and Finglas can be accounted for when they are planned. There is little point in speculating about how to tie in to a Metro which hasn't been conceived yet. Lets work with the plans we have for now,

strassenwo!f

D.L.R. wrote: »

A triangle of interchanges at Pearse/Tara/SSGE would be preferable to one triple interchange at Tara.

No reason a Light Rail/Metro version of Dart Underground couldn't follow the existing route.

What interchange would happen at St. Stephen's Green East?

Remember, the original DART Underground has been dropped. If this alleged metro proposal is adopted, it would not have - under the current situation - any interchange.

And what interchange would happen at Pearse? There is no current proposal which would interchange with anything at Pearse.

If the DART Underground is eventually built, which I hope it will be, it would be a significant error to have its associated triangle so far East in the city - a city where the main growth is in the West - its triangle being focused on areas where there is very limited uptake outside of the very peak hours.

I have said on this board, and I reiterate it now, that the key triangle in Dublin is St. Stephen's Green, Christchurch and the Parnell Monument., the one area in the city which is consistently busy - 24 hours a day.

(I accept that it might not happen in the order given below).

You build your east-west DU through the centre of that busiest area, probably somewhere like College Green.

You build your Swords/Airport metro to meet the DU at that central station and continue on to St. Stephen's Green and then the south-west of the city. Terenure and suchlike.

And you build your Finglas metro via Christchurch to St. Stephen's Green and the south-east of the city (perhaps along the N11 and the Green Line), interchanging with the DART at Christchurch and the other metro at St. Stephen's Green.

You can obviously eventually develop stuff off that arrangement, but that's a basic plan to start off with.

That triangle would be very central, much further west, and much more effective in picking up and delivering passengers.

strassenwo!f

marno21 wrote: »

By the time the Metro project opens, the Green Line will be over capacity again, after it's umpteenth upgrade. Further expansions south of Sandyford especially around Cherrywood, increased use from BXD and overall general growth will have it bursting at the seams. Metrification is a welcome step here.

I agree, it would be very nice to upgrade it to a metro, and I hope it will be, eventually. I would envisage it being upgraded as part of a line linking it to one or more locations in the northwest of the city, Finglas and/or Ashbourne perhaps, via St. Stephen's Green (other metro line) and Christchurch (DART).

I think, given the capacity of any metro tunnel which might eventually be built in the centre of the city, it might be sensible to develop a line along the N11, at some stage, to properly cater for the demand between the Green Line and the DART Line. This would enable better use of a city centre tunnel which these lines would go into.

marno21 wrote: »

Metros for Terenure and Finglas can be accounted for when they are planned. There is little point in speculating about how to tie in to a Metro which hasn't been conceived yet. Lets work with the plans we have for now,

No, that I think is an error. We've seen enough of the development of the LUAS network to know that the basic idea so far has been to build the easy stuff, where extensions are to be built: the extension to Citywest, the extension to the Point, the extension to Cherrywood.

At some stage, proper public transport has to be provided to areas like Finglas, Terenure and Rathfarnham, and in the latter two (at least) it has been pretty much determined that an on-street LUAS is not going to be feasible.

These areas will eventually need to have some kind of (at least partially) underground metro, and how this ties in with both the airport metro and an eventual DART underground line is of critical importance.

The basic aim should eventually be a one-change system for most people in the city to get where they want to go. I'd like to see how you envisage a metro line from Terenure or Finglas integrating with a metro to Sandyford. I think the city should be very cautious.

LeinsterDub

MJohnston wrote: »

I think the biggest change around Metro North this time is basic political and media pressure - the first part comes from the housing crisis, and the second part comes from capturing opportunities from Brexit. I reckon both these things are just about enough extra to get this bumped up in priority.

Also hopefully being able to point to an IMF report will give the government a shield.

Uriel.

Arthur Daley wrote: »

If it becomes one stop for the whole of swords, they are wasting our time and money. Swords would warrant 3 stops for a proper metro service. Otherwise swords express will just kill it as they have stops every few hundred metres and get you into O'Connell bridge in about 20 minutes in comfort. Seriously though, what is metro north adding here?

There's no way the Swords express gets you from Swords to the city in 20mins - at either peak or off peak..

Swords express travel time from first to last stop is now more or less on par with the Dublin bus services. It can take up to 25mins and probably averaging about 18 to 20 mins to get from the terminus to the M1 on ramp

lateconnection

We all know how it works in Ireland, we hear all the moaning about the cost of the project, skepticism and opposition to MN at the moment. People do not see the benefits of MN until after it opens.

But once MN is opened, it will be an outstanding success and the public will love it. It will be like what happened with the Luas- declared a white elephant in the planning and construction phases, and after only a short time of being in operation, the public love it.

The public support that will come for MN after it opens will then lead to a desire to have more metro lines built in Dublin. Places like Rathfarmham, Knocklyon, Terenure, Firhouse, Kimmage, Finglas, Coolock, Beaumont and Lucan are all places which could potentially have a metro line. On the Rathfarnham/Terenure corridor in particular, the bus routes into the city at the moment are dreadfully slow due to congested roads. That is only going to get worse.

Once people see the benefits of MN after it opens, there will be a lot more public support for more metro lines in Dublin. Unfortunately, that is just the way it is, we will have to wait until after MN opens.