Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we return to the topic - Metro North - please.

LuckyLloyd

My blood boils. This FG government is destroying the potential of this country. No vision.

CatInABox

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

My blood boils. This FG government is destroying the potential of this country. No vision.

In fairness, they're not alone in this. Unions are playing their part too, any kind of increase in the tax take results in an increase in the amount that the unions want. The media has also played it's part, by pushing the unions line without question, resulting in some of the best paid public "servants" in the world. And of course, the electorate has also played their part, we voted for this.

EDIT: I don't want to drag the thread off topic again, so I'll clarify a bit! Politics in Ireland is very reactionary, and infrastructure investment is the very opposite of reactionary. I think that there won't be major infrastructure investment in Ireland until the lack of it becomes a major, visible problem. Seeing as people are happy enough to continue on with a gridlocked M50, I'd say the best way of highlighting this would be to contact the companies currently turning down Ireland/Dublin as a place to move their business to pre/post Brexit. I'd guess that a lack of infrastructure would be high on the list for most of those companies.

EDIT 2: News article on JP Morgan just popped up here.

The binding constraint in Ireland isn’t really around the supply of qualified people; it’s around infrastructure — the infrastructure in the city, the supply of housing . . . the capacity in the school system, the domestic transport infrastructure.

Grandeeod

CatInABox wrote: »

In fairness, they're not alone in this. Unions are playing their part too, any kind of increase in the tax take results in an increase in the amount that the unions want. The media has also played it's part, by pushing the unions line without question, resulting in some of the best paid public "servants" in the world. And of course, the electorate has also played their part, we voted for this.

EDIT: I don't want to drag the thread off topic again, so I'll clarify a bit! Politics in Ireland is very reactionary, and infrastructure investment is the very opposite of reactionary. I think that there won't be major infrastructure investment in Ireland until the lack of it becomes a major, visible problem. Seeing as people are happy enough to continue on with a gridlocked M50, I'd say the best way of highlighting this would be to contact the companies currently turning down Ireland/Dublin as a place to move their business to pre/post Brexit. I'd guess that a lack of infrastructure would be high on the list for most of those companies.

EDIT 2: News article on JP Morgan just popped up here.

But it hasn't stopped them.

Consonata

Grandeeod wrote: »

But it hasn't stopped them.

The definition of Irelands approach to infrastructure.

"Sure it'll be grand, they're still comin' like"

marno21

Consonata wrote: »

The definition of Irelands approach to infrastructure.

"Sure it'll be grand, they're still comin' like"

"How about Dublin. Have they any major infrastructure improvements under way?"

"Well they're currently redesigning their big Metro North project to reduce capacity and save upfront costs. They are also at present completing a capacity upgrade on the Luas Green Line, as only 12 years after opening it's already operating above projected capacity needs."

Sam Russell

Mod: Posts deleted as off topic.

Dr Crayfish

Will having Leo as Taoiseach be good for Metro North given his constitch is in North Dublin? Thank God we're not getting another culchie anyway.

MJohnston

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Will having Leo as Taoiseach be good for Metro North given his constitch is in North Dublin? Thank God we're not getting another culchie anyway.

I don't know that it will change much, it certainly makes it *more* likely at least, but I'd say Donohoe as Minister of Finance paired with an active and competent Transport minister would be a bigger win.

Sam Russell

Would Leo be able to persuade the EU to let him spend the AIB share sale money on infrastructure - mainly on MN,DU, and the M20?

The total sale of AIB should cover them over the construction time.

Peregrine

If Leo becomes Taoiseach, Donohue gets finance and Ross isn't in charge of transport then we're in a much better place with regards to transport government. Still, I don't think we're likely to get MN any sooner than 2026 though.

Consonata

Peregrine wrote: »

If Leo becomes Taoiseach, Donohue gets finance and Ross isn't in charge of transport then we're in a much better place with regards to transport government. Still, I don't think we're likely to get MN any sooner than 2026 though.

IA are the only ones who can remove Ross surely?

They were given set ministries as part of the deal.

jd

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Will having Leo as Taoiseach be good for Metro North given his constitch is in North Dublin? Thank God we're not getting another culchie anyway.

I'm not a huge fan of Varadkar, I think he flatters to deceive. But anyay
from
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/revealed-tax-cuts-and-new-pension-scheme-among-varadkars-policy-promises-35740887.html

Infrastructure
Substantially increase capital spending with a ten year National Development Plan.
Amend our National Debt target to 55% from 45% of GDP to allow greater capital investment.
Restore the golden rule in Europe which regards borrowing for capital investment as different to current spending

and

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/coveney-digs-in-after-noonan-call-35737726.html

Meanwhile, Leo Varadkar is to unveil a 20-year capital spending plan which would see funding spent on new housing, roads and public transport, broadband, healthcare, water, ICT, schools and further education.
"The new capital plan will allow us to bring forward long-delayed projects like Dublin Metro, the M20 between Cork and Limerick, motorway access to the North-West and major investment in our healthcare and educational institutions. It will also enable further investment to tackle our housing needs," a source said.

CatInABox

jd wrote: »

Infrastructure
Substantially increase capital spending with a ten year National Development Plan.
Amend our National Debt target to 55% from 45% of GDP to allow greater capital investment.
Restore the golden rule in Europe which regards borrowing for capital investment as different to current spending

That's probably the smartest thing I've heard an Irish politician promise in years.

Bray Head

There never was a 'golden rule' in the EU which treated capital separate from current expenditure. He is confusing it with a UK fiscal policy rule from early Gordon Brown era.

Anyway, Ireland can not unilaterally re-negotiate EU rules.

What Ireland can do is pay for infrastructure through some combination of higher taxes and re-prioritisation of existing expenditure.

This could be done in the morning.

LeinsterDub

Bray Head wrote: »

There never was a 'golden rule' in the EU which treated capital separate from current expenditure. He is confusing it with a UK fiscal policy rule from early Gordon Brown era.

Anyway, Ireland can not unilaterally re-negotiate EU rules.

What Ireland can do is pay for infrastructure through some combination of higher taxes and re-prioritisation of existing expenditure.

This could be done in the morning.

Or just ask the EIB for the dough

http://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/ireland-urged-to-tap-eib-for-funds-35681791.html

Dr Crayfish

Said in the Indo today that Metro North will be one of Leo's big plans for the country, so let's hope he gets in

cgcsb

Sam Russell wrote: »

Would Leo be able to persuade the EU to let him spend the AIB share sale money on infrastructure - mainly on MN,DU, and the M20?

The total sale of AIB should cover them over the construction time.

Leo would be ideologically opposed to using it on infrastructure, he'd rather reduce the debt and subsequently reduce personal taxation that was being used to service said debt. He'll be keen to ensure that spending is well behind revenue this year rather than next.

LeinsterDub

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Said in the Indo today that Metro North will be one of Leo's big plans for the country, so let's hope he gets in

Any online version?

Dr Crayfish

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Any online version?

Yeah I looked for it but their website is just so bloody awful I had to give up

Grandeeod

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Said in the Indo today that Metro North will be one of Leo's big plans for the country, so let's hope he gets in

And you believe him?

He is literally spinning crap. The current situation still condemns MN to a much longer timeline and exposes it to further delays if there's a change of Government that wants to kick the can further down the road.

Bray Head

If MN ever gets built it will need a financial commitment spanning two or three governments and a whole generation of politicians.

People should stop apportioning blame or pinning hope on particular individuals.

It will take a lot more than one person to make it happen.

LeinsterDub

Bray Head wrote: »

If MN ever gets built it will need a financial commitment spanning two or three governments and a whole generation of politicians.

People should stop apportioning blame or pinning hope on particular individuals.

It will take a lot more than one person to make it happen.

Not really barring a complete economic meltdown it would be a case of we've stated so we'll finish

Bray Head

Even getting it to the point where the TBM starts turning will need a financial commitment spanning two or three governments

LeinsterDub

Bray Head wrote: »

Even getting it to the point where the TBM starts turning will need a financial commitment spanning two or three governments

Not really.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/irish-transport-infrastructure-to-get-boost-in-light-of-brexit-1.2958581

A revision of the Government’s capital investment programme up to 2021 will see €2.6 billion in unallocated money given to projects designed to improve Ireland’s economic competitiveness.

Done paid for

AngryLips

Bray Head wrote: »

Even getting it to the point where the TBM starts turning will need a financial commitment spanning two or three governments

Well once you reach that stage, it is too late to roll back on the build ...unless you're the SNP building Edinburgh Tram

Grandeeod

Bray Head wrote: »

Even getting it to the point where the TBM starts turning will need a financial commitment spanning two or three governments

At best and including a real cultural change at political level.

Grandeeod

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Not really.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/irish-transport-infrastructure-to-get-boost-in-light-of-brexit-1.2958581



Done paid for

You have bought into the political hype or you are being sarcastic.:D

Bray Head

Grandeeod wrote: »

Bray Head wrote: »

Even getting it to the point where the TBM starts turning will need a financial commitment spanning two or three governments

At best and including a real cultural change at political level.

What I would love to hear a politician say is that politicians are not very good at delivering infrastructure historically in Ireland. And that they will set up TII as a self-financing body that takes infrastructure decisions on the advice of engineers and financial analysts, a bit like Eirgrid or what Irish Water was supposed to look like.

This is the only way to protect the long term from the short term.

LeinsterDub

Grandeeod wrote: »

You have bought into the political hype or you are being sarcastic.:D

Sarcastic. The money could be found if they wanted.