Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

Idbatterim

European is giving away money and Alan Farrell has said that the Minster for Transport has indicated money isn't an issue.

So that just leaves a complete and total lack of political will as the issue

watch them pull a billion euro out of their ass in budget 2018, 2019, 2020 etc, god knows what it will be coming up to an election :rolleyes:

Idbatterim

In the first instance, we are not saving 10%. The current proposal has a revised price tag €600 million less than the former plan, however, it must be noted that the figures provided for the former propsal were never firm but based on an assesment in 2012 by the NTA, the numbers did not stack up in terms of value for money.

total and utter spurios BS! first of all inflation obviously isnt a cost for Mr Farrell! Secondly how much of any spend on any infrastructure spend, eventually ends back up in government coffers? a bloody massive percentage of it, I would wager. Also we always hear about the cost benefit analysis being favorable, does this stop once a project exceeds X million euro? :rolleyes:

Grandeeod

LeinsterDub wrote: »

European is giving away money and Alan Farrell has said that the Minster for Transport has indicated money isn't an issue.

So that just leaves a complete and total lack of political will as the issue

This and nothing else. Same with DU.

lateconnection

Alan Farrell claims that the new optimised inferior MN will be faster than the original.

That is a lie.

Original MN journey time to Airport: 17 min
New MN journey time to Airport: 19 min

Original MN journey time to Swords: 25 min
New MN journey time to Swords: 27 min

These are facts that are freely available in the North Dublin Transport Study reports and in the Metro North RPA videos on Youtube.

Surface running in Ballymun was rejected last time on the grounds that it would have "consequent impacts on the reliability of the service provided by the scheme"

That quote is from Original MN's EIS report. If it wasnt feasible last time, then why bother going back to the surface running idea, its a waste of time. Put the line in a cut and cover tunnel that allows 70kph speeds, not the 40-50 kph speeds that will be in place if surface running is implemented.

Completely and utterly senseless.

LeinsterDub

Cycling home today this entire farce just depressed me no end.

yer man!

I emailed Shane Ross a few weeks ago and got this response. Pretty much what everyone knows already.

"Dear (Yer man)

I refer to your email regarding the original Metro North project. I apologise for the delay in replying.

Following a comprehensive review of capital expenditure carried out in 2011, a decision was taken by the Government to defer the original Metro North scheme and a number of other major projects, due to the deterioration in the public finances.

The National Transport Authority (NTA) has statutory responsibility for the development of public transport infrastructure in the Greater Dublin Area (GDA), including the Metro North project. Based on the recommendations in the Fingal/North Dublin Transport Study undertaken by the NTA, the Government decided in 2015 that the revised lower cost new Metro North scheme was the most appropriate public transport solution to address the transport needs of the Swords/Airport/City Centre Corridor. It is proposed that the service will offer capacity for 9,900 passengers per hour per direction with the potential to expand services in the future if demand requires. In making the decision to proceed with new Metro North, the Government asked the NTA to keep the interim public transport needs of the corridor under review.

Funding for the new Metro North project is provided under the Government's current Capital Plan, allowing initially for the planning and design phases of the project, followed by the construction phase which is expected to commence in 2021 with a view to delivering the project by 2026/2027. I am advised by the NTA that there is very little scope to accelerate the project to any significant extent in view of the large volume of work that must be done in terms of planning etc and the timeframes required for consultation before construction can commence.

The NTA, in collaboration with Transport Infrastructure Ireland (TII), are currently undertaking an option analysis and selection study of possible metro alignments and station locations. Arising from this work a final route and station configuration will be established. It is my understanding that the NTA and TII anticipate that this process will be complete by the end of 2017, after which a public consultation process will be undertaken in 2018.
Of the previous expenditure of €170 million incurred on the original Metro North Scheme, it is anticipated that a significant proportion of this investment will be of value in the finalisation of the new Metro North project. My Department will continue to monitor progress, including funding for the project, as the planning and design process evolves.



With best wishes,
Shane Ross"

Chivito550

yer man! wrote: »

I emailed Shane Ross a few weeks ago and got this response. Pretty much what everyone knows already.

"Dear (Yer man)

I refer to your email regarding the original Metro North project. I apologise for the delay in replying.

Following a comprehensive review of capital expenditure carried out in 2011, a decision was taken by the Government to defer the original Metro North scheme and a number of other major projects, due to the deterioration in the public finances.

The National Transport Authority (NTA) has statutory responsibility for the development of public transport infrastructure in the Greater Dublin Area (GDA), including the Metro North project. Based on the recommendations in the Fingal/North Dublin Transport Study undertaken by the NTA, the Government decided in 2015 that the revised lower cost new Metro North scheme was the most appropriate public transport solution to address the transport needs of the Swords/Airport/City Centre Corridor. It is proposed that the service will offer capacity for 9,900 passengers per hour per direction with the potential to expand services in the future if demand requires. In making the decision to proceed with new Metro North, the Government asked the NTA to keep the interim public transport needs of the corridor under review.

Funding for the new Metro North project is provided under the Government's current Capital Plan, allowing initially for the planning and design phases of the project, followed by the construction phase which is expected to commence in 2021 with a view to delivering the project by 2026/2027. I am advised by the NTA that there is very little scope to accelerate the project to any significant extent in view of the large volume of work that must be done in terms of planning etc and the timeframes required for consultation before construction can commence.

The NTA, in collaboration with Transport Infrastructure Ireland (TII), are currently undertaking an option analysis and selection study of possible metro alignments and station locations. Arising from this work a final route and station configuration will be established. It is my understanding that the NTA and TII anticipate that this process will be complete by the end of 2017, after which a public consultation process will be undertaken in 2018.
Of the previous expenditure of €170 million incurred on the original Metro North Scheme, it is anticipated that a significant proportion of this investment will be of value in the finalisation of the new Metro North project. My Department will continue to monitor progress, including funding for the project, as the planning and design process evolves.



With best wishes,
Shane Ross"

He must copy and paste that to every email about metro north he gets!

Idbatterim

Are they bloody parrots or something? Are they brain dead or do they think we are?!

The fact that this is the response we get from elected officials, probably tells me why everything here is always at crisis point. "Nothing to see here" " sure til be grand"

Remember the primary reason for the justification of abandonment of metro north was patronage figures. The cost was then just the way to try and justify it, sell it to the mostly ignorant masses , which we here are not. Take a read of the below...

http://m.independent.ie/life/home-garden/census-2016-figures-bring-a-bombshell-35625057.html

Funny how it can be conveniently dropped at the proverbial " drop of the hat" but no amount of logic or reasoning can get it back on the cards!

Idbatterim

In terms of Shane ross. I akwYs admired him for being a straight arrow or so it seemed. Seemed is definetly the word now. I'm sure the few houses that were given permission in his constituency, is a far bigger cause of distress to him than a light rail line that would carry 30,000,000+ in year 1...

Bray Head

Don't blame the civil servants who write this stuff. Here is a two-line answer that they would write if they could:

Metro North is the best public transport option for the city-centre to Swords corridor. However successive governments have not prioritised its delivery over other types of public spending.

Idbatterim

I'm going to write to local papers in the north side. I'm not sure they know of the lies being fed that are depriving their areas and the entire city of this vital project for another half decade delay minimum !

And it's all based on lies. Those lies are all in print though... they should have a field day with this!

Chivito550

Idbatterim wrote: »

I'm going to write to local papers in the north side. I'm not sure they know of the lies being fed that are depriving their areas and the entire city of this vital project for another half decade delay minimum !

And it's all based on lies. Those lies are all in print though... they should have a field day with this!

Post it up here when it's published.

Idbatterim

Chivito550 wrote: »

Post it up here when it's published.

I will, this will be the long story short. An extra five year wait, for an inferior scheme, that will cost more... When there is an all round superior scheme that already has gone through years of this bull****!

I can ask them how an area dreadfully served by public transport, is going to wait another half decade, when FG keep telling us all how great the economy is doing!

Zebra3

Idbatterim wrote: »

I'm going to write to local papers in the north side. I'm not sure they know of the lies being fed that are depriving their areas and the entire city of this vital project for another half decade delay minimum !

And it's all based on lies. Those lies are all in print though... they should have a field day with this!

Don't expect local newspapers who take substantial advertising from politicians to call them out on anything.

LeinsterDub

Idbatterim wrote: »

I'm going to write to local papers in the north side. I'm not sure they know of the lies being fed that are depriving their areas and the entire city of this vital project for another half decade delay minimum !

And it's all based on lies. Those lies are all in print though... they should have a field day with this!

If you're going to email post it up here and we can all send in the same email.

Grandeeod

In political terms FF in Government, lead the way with the original MN project. Despite them propping up the current Government, they haven't used MN or DU as leverage. They've issued plenty of press releases moaning and groaning, but it appears that IW was more important. Once again an example of political BS in terms of transport infrastructure. If you are dealing with a FF TD, ask them why MN and DU (despite their moaning) weren't central issue to supporting the Government.

marno21

Not many people outside of Dublin will care about MN, water charges are a national issue in the eyes of many. People in Clifden aren't going to be happy about MN advancing wen there's no money for the N59 or the Galway bypass

As for DU, I'm not surprised there is no money being given for DU with the ongoing conflict with CIE.

MJohnston

There's two ways to positively frame Metro North as a political issue that affects more than just Dublin and is about more than infrastructure - the first is capitalising on Brexit, the second is a solution to the housing crisis.

Idbatterim

MJohnston wrote: »

There's two ways to positively frame Metro North as a political issue that affects more than just Dublin and is about more than infrastructure - the first is capitalising on Brexit, the second is a solution to the housing crisis.

100%. A massive brake is being out on Irish growth. By the strangulation of Dublin. On infrastructure and housing. Decisions should have been made that key projects go ahead like du and MN. Other joke projects could have waited, like the qbc's. Of course this being Ireland, the opposite happened!!!

Grandeeod

marno21 wrote: »

Not many people outside of Dublin will care about MN, water charges are a national issue in the eyes of many. People in Clifden aren't going to be happy about MN advancing wen there's no money for the N59 or the Galway bypass

As for DU, I'm not surprised there is no money being given for DU with the ongoing conflict with CIE.

With all due respect, I know all that. But it doesn't mean it's right. For over 14 years, I have been reading the same crap excuses on this forum. It's almost like some kind of disease at this stage. I kind of feel offended when stuff like, "not many people outside Dublin care about blah blah blah." is repeated to me. As for the CIE argument, it's not a new one, but once again it's up to the political class that created it, to change it. Seriously marno21, I'm saddened by the simplicity of your post as it exposes all that is wrong with our Governance. The Proportional Representation system is recycling this country through swathes of utter nonsense.

Idbatterim

Speaking of Galway. I was down there the other day. The place is a glorified village. What's that bypass costing e600,000,000?!

The gort - tuam bypass the enniscorthy ones. Is this a joke that projects like these are nearly completed and MN and du have been confined to the dustbin not to be seen for another decade at best ?!

marno21

Idbatterim wrote: »

Speaking of Galway. I was down there the other day. The place is a glorified village. What's that bypass costing e600,000,000?!

The gort - tuam bypass the enniscorthy ones. Is this a joke that projects like these are nearly completed and MN and du have been confined to the dustbin not to be seen for another decade at best ?!

There's more impetus at the minute to put a slow windy choo choo through Swinford and Kiltimagh than there is DU. Sums it up to be honest

marno21

Grandeeod wrote: »

With all due respect, I know all that. But it doesn't mean it's right. For over 14 years, I have been reading the same crap excuses on this forum. It's almost like some kind of disease at this stage. I kind of feel offended when stuff like, "not many people outside Dublin care about blah blah blah." is repeated to me. As for the CIE argument, it's not a new one, but once again it's up to the political class that created it, to change it. Seriously marno21, I'm saddened by the simplicity of your post as it exposes all that is wrong with our Governance. The Proportional Representation system is recycling this country through swathes of utter nonsense.

Just for te benefit of those that don't know was the main reason I posted...

Hopefully the Bus Eireann debacle will move things forward in dismantling CIE but at the same time I won't hold my breth

yer man!

Idbatterim wrote: »

Speaking of Galway. I was down there the other day. The place is a glorified village. What's that bypass costing e600,000,000?!

The gort - tuam bypass the enniscorthy ones. Is this a joke that projects like these are nearly completed and MN and du have been confined to the dustbin not to be seen for another decade at best ?!

To be fair, as a native Galwegian myself, traffic in the city or village as you call it can be hell. At peak times it can literally take over an hour to traverse the city. I now live in Dublin and the traffic is nowhere near as bad to go the same distances. No new bridges have been built in the city in over 30 years. I don't talk for all of Galway now but I always felt that Dublin badly needed a proper integrated transport system and it becomes starkly obvious how beneficial one would be when you visit the likes of continental European cities. I can only hope that the government/NRA actually stick to the timelines that have set this time with respect to metro north.

CatInABox

yer man! wrote: »

To be fair, as a native Galwegian myself, traffic in the city or village as you call it can be hell. At peak times it can literally take over an hour to traverse the city. I now live in Dublin and the traffic is nowhere near as bad to go the same distances. No new bridges have been built in the city in over 30 years. I don't talk for all of Galway now but I always felt that Dublin badly needed a proper integrated transport system and it becomes starkly obvious how beneficial one would be when you visit the likes of continental European cities. I can only hope that the government/NRA actually stick to the timelines that have set this time with respect to metro north.

The problems that effect Dublin effect every urban centre in Ireland, Galway included. A lack of urban investment, and the encouragement of one off housing in the middle of no where has resulted in gridlock and a much poorer standard of life.

murphaph

Grandeeod wrote: »

With all due respect, I know all that. But it doesn't mean it's right. For over 14 years, I have been reading the same crap excuses on this forum. It's almost like some kind of disease at this stage. I kind of feel offended when stuff like, "not many people outside Dublin care about blah blah blah." is repeated to me. As for the CIE argument, it's not a new one, but once again it's up to the political class that created it, to change it. Seriously marno21, I'm saddened by the simplicity of your post as it exposes all that is wrong with our Governance. The Proportional Representation system is recycling this country through swathes of utter nonsense.

Agree with all this but just to say it's our version of PR (with single transferable vote) that is the problem. Most European states use other forms of PR and still have good functioning government at national level. The STV system is what creates multi seat constituencies and makes the Dáil like an overgrown council chamber in the process. All politics is local as they say but in Ireland it's taken to extremes.

I'd love to see the system used in the Netherlands adopted in Ireland (national list).

pigtown

Idbatterim wrote: »

100%. A massive brake is being out on Irish growth. By the strangulation of Dublin. On infrastructure and housing. Decisions should have been made that key projects go ahead like du and MN. Other joke projects could have waited, like the qbc's. Of course this being Ireland, the opposite happened!!!

I'd just like to point out that it's an issue for all Irish cities. They all have housing crises and badly needed infrastructural projects. They aren't being given the go-ahead either, and in some cases there aren't even plans that could get postponed. Investment is lacking nationally.

FreudianSlippers

pigtown wrote: »

I'd just like to point out that it's an issue for all Irish cities. They all have housing crises and badly needed infrastructural projects. They aren't being given the go-ahead either, and in some cases there aren't even plans that could get postponed. Investment is lacking nationally.

I find it difficult to believe that this is comparable... firstly, what other Irish cities are as badly hurt by lack of infrastructure as Dublin?
Secondly, how many other Irish cities are capable of producing infrastructure projects that can actually recoup significant investment?

pigtown

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I find it difficult to believe that this is comparable... firstly, what other Irish cities are as badly hurt by lack of infrastructure as Dublin?
Secondly, how many other Irish cities are capable of producing infrastructure projects that can actually recoup significant investment?

Without wishing to derail the thread, obviously in terms of scale nowhere in Ireland compares to Dublin. With that said, Galway is absolutely choked with traffic and has been for years and the much touted bypass won't be built anytime soon. Cork's road infrastructure is chronically under capacity; Dunkettle, parts of the N40, and the N28 are carparks for large periods. As for housing, Cork, Galway, and Limerick are badly in need of more supply. The same is true when it comes to public transport.

I'm just saying that it's not an anti-Dublin issue, it's an anti-urban issue.

Consonata

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I find it difficult to believe that this is comparable... firstly, what other Irish cities are as badly hurt by lack of infrastructure as Dublin?

I take it from this you've never tried to drive into Galway or Cork at rush hour :pac:

Dublin got nothing on those car parks.