*Limerick GAA news/discussion thread*

Mehapoy

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Ah well it's coming out now you clearly don't rate Wallis and now it's clear
With respect any one here this thread more regular posters huge time Wallis and work done with limerick and indeed players also
If you know as much you claim you do you would know minors huge fans him
There was no arrogance on he's part
Job manager he's home club came up he took it but could still oversee academy

In fairness daly lot tv work but still allowed do both
Wallis is far from arrogant anyone will tell you that

I don't see how daly record as coach is surprising when he's manager not coach and only coaching done with clare kilmhill and won c title etc
He's not really done much coaching but is good solid manager
There's a huge difference between coaching and managing

Its not a Wallis versus Daly thing either, that's vastly over simplifying the situation where you have so many other variables going on...

Mehapoy

Colemania wrote: »

The well are 1 match away from their first county final in god knows how long. Probably since the shock defeat to Bruree in the county final in 2006. Haven't won a county championship in 12 years and the confidence of these lads is fantastic this year. May meet the winners of ahane and Adare which they'll fancy themselves at winning and then a possible final against Na Piarsigh who are big city rivals of theirs.

The key to this team is their half back line of Carmody, Byrnes and Seanie O’Brien. They're having a superb championship and the link up play between Seanie and Cian Lynch at midfield is great to watch. Kevin O'Brien is still banging in the goals in the full forward line and his brother Thomas, Kelliher and Considine are also in great form.

I've heard that the training the lads are being put through by Carey and Foley is very good and the players are enjoying it. Exciting times for the Well and here's hoping we win the county!!

Would be good to see patrickswell coming back to challenge the Nap kilmallock hegemony, they have quality all through the team and should have a clear enough run to the final as I presume the other 2 and doon are on the opposite side of the draw...

thinkstoomuch1

Mehapoy wrote: »

Its not a Wallis versus Daly thing either, that's vastly over simplifying the situation where you have so many other variables going on...

Not in your case
Your views are normally spot on and I may not agree always with your points but you do give well balanced views
However the other poster clearly no liking Wallace by saying good riddance him Wallis is arrogance and not giving him credit anything he won
The real nail on the head was when he used Antrim as examples of he apparently failing when excellent Kevin Ryan proved since huge problem up there
Cody wouldn't even have success there as structure are not there

Colemania

Mehapoy wrote: »

Would be good to see patrickswell coming back to challenge the Nap kilmallock hegemony, they have quality all through the team and should have a clear enough run to the final as I presume the other 2 and doon are on the opposite side of the draw...

As far as I know there's nothing stopping Patrickswell meeting the winners of Kilmallock and Doon either. I'm just hoping we get the other side of the draw. Very young team out yesterday with the likes of Gillane, Kelvin Lynch and Andrew Carroll. With the exception of Murray in goals and Barry Foley, our oldest player was Thomas O’Brien at 25!

thinkstoomuch1

Sportin wrote: »

Wallis' record as a coach does not read well at all. S&C was his role with cork, failure at kerry and Antrim. Let's see what he does with Midelton. Obviously this years minors didn't play as well as last years because last years team was far superior. Your argument does not hold up with respect to Wallis.

Corbett 1) brought Kerry to a all-Irl minor footb semi so they obviously lost munster 2)who are kerry Pats senior football? 3. worked with various Ulster teams, sounds like an academy or a role like Ger Downes does for Limerick. Obviously, winning an Ulster minor title is good and UL not do sure (they trained once a week as most players were with their counties).
However I'm not saying he's not good but S&C with the senior team sounds premature to me. Give the kid done time for Christ sake. Let him devtlop his game with the 2q

We need the best, can u understand that.

Just one point here also you seem to forget
Wallace was part of dinny Cahill back room team beat Dublin five years in championship actually that Dublin team was managed by none other than Anthony daly

To say Wallis failed Antrim is not correct when I don't think Antrim senior hurling beaten major county since Dublin


Wallace became manager then but huge problem with club

Like for example Kevin Ryan said before under twenty one game Antrim would be hammered as no proper preparing done no support etc and miles off others and this was under twenty one
Imagine at senior then problems they have
So in essence there's valid argument that Wallis was part set up got one huge win against all odds and done better than expected

thinkstoomuch1

lim4ev wrote: »

Thanks for that TTM

What does this win for the well mean?I thought at the start of the championship they could be dark horses but didn't think they could win it out not so sure now even though they've beaten Kilmallock I think Nap are a superior side to kilmallock even though obviously kilmallock beat nap last yr.

I think Adare will beat Ahane fairly comfortably and Doon v kilmallock to be a cracker with nothing between these two teams Doon in my opinion lost the match v kilmallock last yr due to naivety they didn't keep their composure in the last 5 min and blew it, are they stronger this yr?i don't know and maybe with the Kilmallock lads having no break in god knows how long maybe Doon might sneak this one.

Whats the story with the semi;s is it something similar to back door in that possible re matches to be avoided?

No problem I'm only happy to help

Sportin

Fair enough TTM, good riddance was a bit much. Dont have anything against Wallis. He was told the role required undivided attention and he decided that Midelton was for him. His decision. CB's decision to remove him and well justified. He undermined his employers by taking on a role with his club which was obviously going to compromise his academy role. No different to Daly managing Clarecastle.
Disappointed to hear that Daly is not faring well.
Is that based on results this year or is the academy training just not up to scratch?
For instance how did Limerick fare in 2014?

Anyway lets get back to the original discussion point.
My assessment: Wallis is a good S&C trainer but not a topline hurling coach.
Your reponse was to quote Antrim as an example of his prowess as a coach.
I am looking at the quality of his work not the quantity.
I am also practicle enough to understand that some teams cannot progress due to bad structures
Lets go back and revisit his coaching record and show me where it has been a success.
Not with 15 paragraphs and lines like "ask any of the players and theyll tell you".
Go through each team he has coached and show me his success rate.
Same with Corbett while you're at it.

I dont have those facts but i'm not buying into the hype until i see hard facts.

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Not in your case
Your views are normally spot on and I may not agree always with your points but you do give well balanced views
However the other poster clearly no liking Wallace by saying good riddance him Wallis is arrogance and not giving him credit anything he won
The real nail on the head was when he used Antrim as examples of he apparently failing when excellent Kevin Ryan proved since huge problem up there
Cody wouldn't even have success there as structure are not there

thinkstoomuch1

Sportin wrote: »

Fair enough TTM, good riddance was a bit much. Dont have anything against Wallis. He was told the role required undivided attention and he decided that Midelton was for him. His decision. CB's decision to remove him and well justified. He undermined his employers by taking on a role with his club which was obviously going to compromise his academy role. No different to Daly managing Clarecastle.
Disappointed to hear that Daly is not faring well.
Is that based on results this year or is the academy training just not up to scratch?
For instance how did Limerick fare in 2014?

Anyway lets get back to the original discussion point.
My assessment: Wallis is a good S&C trainer but not a topline hurling coach.
Your reponse was to quote Antrim as an example of his prowess as a coach.
I am looking at the quality of his work not the quantity.
I am also practicle enough to understand that some teams cannot progress due to bad structures
Lets go back and revisit his coaching record and show me where it has been a success.
Not with 15 paragraphs and lines like "ask any of the players and theyll tell you".
Go through each team he has coached and show me his success rate.
Same with Corbett while you're at it.

I dont have those facts but i'm not buying into the hype until i see hard facts.

Fair enough and we'll agree to disagree

You make good points no doubt about that
Corbett is s and c but has coached drills camoige and other teams football etc and you even said yourself coached limerick under twenty bit drill

Wallis coach management kerry club won county
Would be involved some drill with cork
Was directly involved coaching drills limerick minors etc and limerick didn't win minor all ireland final Yes but you seem well up things so you probably know the problems with one member management in leads up to the final

Now not just me saying but others said here were problems leads up minor game and limerick imo we're good enough win that game

We disagree with certain men but we both seem to be fully agreement in good coaching and it's importance

glasagusban

I've said this a few times already, but it's been well established and commented on that the Clare style of play was built around the type of player they had. They focused on a possession game and breaking ball and winning it on the ground because they had a lot of fast light players and not many powerful men in the air. They played to their strengths.

Limerick's strengths are different and I have no doubt they'll play a different game. I also have no doubt, as I've mentioned before, that Kinnerk (if he joins) is smart enough to see that. Limerick actually had a well developed possession game under Allen, we just didn't have much going on in the forwards. I think our support play from full back to midfield has been good the last few years, but interplay in the forwards has been weak compared to the likes of what you see from other teams.

Speculating on our system, I think it's going to revolve around getting Cian Lynch into a free role. He's a unique player who can make things happen and using him as a third mid with a two man inside line as the 21s do seems to make sense.

paddy no 11

glasagusban wrote: »

I've said this a few times already, but it's been well established and commented on that the Clare style of play was built around the type of player they had. They focused on a possession game and breaking ball and winning it on the ground because they had a lot of fast light players and not many powerful men in the air. They played to their strengths.

Limerick's strengths are different and I have no doubt they'll play a different game. I also have no doubt, as I've mentioned before, that Kinnerk (if he joins) is smart enough to see that. Limerick actually had a well developed possession game under Allen, we just didn't have much going on in the forwards. I think our support play from full back to midfield has been good the last few years, but interplay in the forwards has been weak compared to the likes of what you see from other teams.

Speculating on our system, I think it's going to revolve around getting Cian Lynch into a free role. He's a unique player who can make things happen and using him as a third mid with a two man inside line as the 21s do seems to make sense.

We should be able to mix it up, the likes of byrnes, GOM, Dempsey Browne, C lynch, SOB would all have ability to play possession in the midfield.

Totally agree that building cohesion in the forwards is the main thing to work on, I think English and Byrnes will cure some of our flaws at the back.

thinkstoomuch1

glasagusban wrote: »

I've said this a few times already, but it's been well established and commented on that the Clare style of play was built around the type of player they had. They focused on a possession game and breaking ball and winning it on the ground because they had a lot of fast light players and not many powerful men in the air. They played to their strengths.

Limerick's strengths are different and I have no doubt they'll play a different game. I also have no doubt, as I've mentioned before, that Kinnerk (if he joins) is smart enough to see that. Limerick actually had a well developed possession game under Allen, we just didn't have much going on in the forwards. I think our support play from full back to midfield has been good the last few years, but interplay in the forwards has been weak compared to the likes of what you see from other teams.

Speculating on our system, I think it's going to revolve around getting Cian Lynch into a free role. He's a unique player who can make things happen and using him as a third mid with a two man inside line as the 21s do seems to make sense.

I would agree with parts your post however to say Allen had possession game was effectively good is wrong when clare destroyed limerick in all ireland semi final and Dublin beat limerick in league final and struggle beat injury depleted cork team in munster final for your play with an extra man in the hottest day of the year

Limerick play under Allen was predicable and stale and you will remember me saying before clare game clare would beat limerick as clare knew exactly what limerick were going to do

It really showed Allen game plan when he didn't go dressing room half time but stayed ptich looking on as he literally knew clare had well and truly he's number

If Allen game plan was good limerick would been consistent but no it was a few wins here and there
Limerick don't have players other styles is incorrect
Kerry football thought the same with football in wanted be purists
Kerry changed their attuide though you win the battle ist and foremost then you dazzle with your skill

Limerick direct style meat and drink to kk as kk school minor club numerous times beaten limerick old style
Kilmallock would never beat ballyhsld but give themselves no chance by going orthodox and again kk team destroyed them
Kilmallock should played a sweeper and would been competitive
I can't see how you advocate this style is effective
It's madness to keep the same style year on year and expect change

Style just has to change
Look at limerick under twenty one embraced sweeper and possion game and still mix it up with morrisey as target man
Evolution can only happen with plan a and plan b
Limerick simply have to change style just like Cork
Cork think free style move it fast and seek it every where the great Bertie troy philosophy worked years ago work now v kk
It won't
Only way beat kk who are kings winning ball is posession game but has have variety
Allen posession game with cork Was one dimensions ten years ago such kk swarmed space cork couldn't run in to it

You can have neither full direct or orthodox v kk you must have adaptability and variety but based around posession beat them

lim4ev

Totally agree that building cohesion in the forwards is the main thing to work on, I think English and Byrnes will cure some of our flaws at the back.[/QUOTE]

I also think you can add M casey to those 2 you mentioned I have no ties whatsoever to this lad but hold him in high regard and think he might have what it takes to make either of the corner back slots his

Sportin

Of the U21s i think English, Byrnes, Hegarty, Donovan and Dempsey should go straight into the panel (English and Byrnes were ready this year).
I'd give another year to Casey, Colin Ryan, Nash and Ronan Lynch to develop their games and in some cases physiques more. They'll also gain great experience is they plan Fitzgibbon Cup.

Of the over 21s i would bring back Alan Dempsey and get him hopping fit.

One question, did Andrew Brennan get a proper chance to stake his claim for a place?
He has always impressed me and if the edges were knocked off him earlier could have made it as a senior player for Limerick.

lim4ev wrote: »

Totally agree that building cohesion in the forwards is the main thing to work on, I think English and Byrnes will cure some of our flaws at the back.

I also think you can add M casey to those 2 you mentioned I have no ties whatsoever to this lad but hold him in high regard and think he might have what it takes to make either of the corner back slots his[/QUOTE]

Sportin

Lack of cohesion and interplay in the forward line is the single biggest disease in the Limerick team at present.
So many examples where players prefer to shoot on sight rather than play a simple ball to a player in a better position.
Breen and Downes are the biggest culprits when it comes to passing.
Ryan and Browne also shoot from silly positions when the full forward line are loooking for ball to be played in front of them.

Back play on the whole is not bad. English will certainly help the full back line and would compliment McCarthy if the incoming trainer can get him fit!

thinkstoomuch1

Sportin wrote: »

Lack of cohesion and interplay in the forward line is the single biggest disease in the Limerick team at present.
So many examples where players prefer to shoot on sight rather than play a simple ball to a player in a better position.
Breen and Downes are the biggest culprits when it comes to passing.
Ryan and Browne also shoot from silly positions when the full forward line are loooking for ball to be played in front of them.

Back play on the whole is not bad. English will certainly help the full back line and would compliment McCarthy if the incoming trainer can get him fit!

I'd agree totally but back play as unit is awful and play as individuals
In the last eight or so championship games last two years around fifteen goal conceded proved defence huge huge concerns and imo equal to problems at half forward
No team conceding such huge goals can say back line is effective
Stats don't show that

Sportin

Back play at county level is so difficult. The full back line in particular has got to be the hardest line of all to play in
Players moving all over the place. Do you sit or do you go? How far do you go?

thinkstoomuch1

Sportin wrote: »

Back play at county level is so difficult. The full back line in particular has got to be the hardest line of all to play in
Players moving all over the place. Do you sit or do you go? How far do you go?

Fair points and how to adapt to sweeper or pushing out
I see your point but the great coaches find a way as they think think think and assessment and analysis and they break it down to every inch get it right

Like a maths complex problems it look impossible at ist glance however you break it up to small principles in time a solution is found
I think you will agree with me defence showed no improvement at all this year and that's not good enough at senior elite level

Fireball07

Last year we were off in every regard- backs, forwards, the midfield, the whole lot.

The half-back line has been the source of a lot of our problems though. They don't win clean ball ever really. It means the midfield have to work harder by giving them extra cover and without clean possession, it's harder to launch attacks. You're just putting yourself under needless pressure.

Also the space between our half and full-back lines has cost us goals. It's almost impossible for any individual to stop a goal once someone gets loose in that space. An overlap is created and there's nothing one person can do unless the forward messes up- Cork got two goals against us in 2014 from that, Aaron Cunningham got 1 of his like that this year. The goals against Dublin/Tipp were more elementary mistakes that shouldn't be happening at all.



The movement of our forwards also hasn't been good enough. Way too static. The ball into them isn't the best, but they don't help themselves either. So when looking for a new coach- I'd want him to build a new half-back line with the manager and work on feeding an effective forward line. Basic work rate/intensity is also needed- look at Galway & Kilkenny- you have to run your heart out hooking, blocking, making it difficult for the opposition. But we do make things too easy for opposition backs, I think, our forwards should be rotating a bit, making runs from left to right and the midfield and half-backs need to pick out those runs. We also need overlapping runs from our half-forward line and midfield, create the option for the short handpass... that's how you open teams up.


Personnel-wise, I think we do have the players, it's just a matter of them being picked in the right position and getting the best out of them.

lim4ev

If Adare win their qf they play Patrickswell and then Nap v the winners of Doon or Kilmallock so I was told this morning

pajoguy

Leo has resigned as the minor hurling manager accoding to Live95fm.

Fireball07

pajoguy wrote: »

Leo has resigned as the minor hurling manager accoding to Live95fm.

Bit of a weird one, in that how often do people actually resign from their roles?

Did we under-achieve this year? Maybe... we weren't expected to beat Cork really, but then we never got going after that. It would never have been considered a top team but some of the players didn't show what they were capable of. We had some big enough names in attack but Peter Casey was the only one that you could say was class.

Two teams that beat us are in the All-Ireland final and we didn't lose to either by much, though.


That said, I don't think Leo is a particularly good manager. But they year could have gone a lot worse. I suppose losing 3 games, winning 2 doesn't look great on paper at the same time.

Sportin

What kind of a minor team have Limerick next year?
I remember the U16s were rated highly enough last year so we cant be bad.
I think Cork are the coming team next year (and years after if last weekends results are anything to go by).

zombieHanalei

Rumour has it that the great tussle between TJ and Davy for the services of Paul Kinnerk has finally been won; by John Brudair and our senior footballers!!

Mehapoy

zombieHanalei wrote: »

Rumour has it that the great tussle between TJ and Davy for the services of Paul Kinnerk has finally been won; by John Brudair and our senior footballers!!

To be honest that woukd make most sense when you think about it, former limerick footballer, would be in a hiding to nothing with the hurlers, get nowhere next year or be hamstrung by TJ then you'll get the blame and destroy your rep... Could go with the footballers and make a real difference and maybe look at the hurling coaches role in either clare or limerick when the current incumbents have left...

Sportin

The thing to remember with these county manager jobs is that the people involved are not paid. Professionals like the Physios, doctors and conditioning people are. Those at the frontline however are not. They are put under enormous pressure, from the general public, social media, plus family and work due to the level of time required for the role.
While I accept that the same time and effort is also put in by volunteers at club level the pressures are amplified at county level.
For this reason I am not one bit surprised to hear that Leo has stepped down. This team lost the bulk of last years crack team and if anything possibly overachieved in narrowLy losing the munster final to Tipp and then to Galway who I think will win the final.
Leo managed a Munster u21 title win in 2011 and was effectively sacked for losing the AI semi to what transpired to be a very talented Galway team. I think there are 4 starters Sunday plus the injured Cooney who was probably the most talented of all that team.
Thinking more about it it's a wonder he took the minor job at all this year considering his shabby treatment in 2011.
Let's hope he enjoys his time out.

paddy no 11

Thought leo done well enough with the minors, wasn't a great team and was flawed at half back, at least he tried things to address that in the few games he had them.

Pretty sure our senior manager is on a hefty wedge though? Failure to recruit kinnerk should be another nail in his coffin.

windy shepard henderson

zombieHanalei wrote: »

Rumour has it that the great tussle between TJ and Davy for the services of Paul Kinnerk has finally been won; by John Brudair and our senior footballers!!

i always belived that would be the outcome in the end , the guy comes from a large football back round and as an ex footballer for limerick it was highly unlikely he would have turned his back on on them now, the current crop of footballers in county limerick would not be a million miles of the mark from the sides that went close in the early 00's, believe is somthing they lack at times and they gave tyrone plenty to think about in omagh in the qualifiers this year the end result was flattering that day

shockframe

A lot could be said about the possibilites of the senior hurling setup but there is an under 21 final approaching.

Tough game expected. Our record in all irelands isnt pretty but I'm confident we'll put in a good performance and can win it.

Performances and preparation have gone very well and we couldn't ask for better.Great that their is no hype (so far!).

More than likely the same team from the Galway match.Some of the forwards were patchy at times the last day so would be welcome if a at least 1 rises to the occasion.

mickmackey1

Our record in u-21 finals is reallly good though, 4 wins out of 4.

paddy no 11

shockframe wrote: »

A lot could be said about the possibilites of the senior hurling setup but there is an under 21 final approaching.

Tough game expected. Our record in all irelands isnt pretty but I'm confident we'll put in a good performance and can win it.

Performances and preparation have gone very well and we couldn't ask for better.Great that their is no hype (so far!).

More than likely the same team from the Galway match.Some of the forwards were patchy at times the last day so would be welcome if a at least 1 rises to the occasion.

Thing is im more worried about what happens these players next year than sundays final. We have a good u-21 team and a clutch of good minor teams and we need to convert that into senior all Irelands before someone clare or cork sort there house out and we get left behind, it really should be our time the next 2-3 years with the current experience in the squad and the youth coming through.

I'll be there saturday but win lose or draw the above wont change.