That idiot, the pope

krudler

Ultravid wrote: »

I'm not sure that it's as simple as that. When you give yourself over to evil, over a lifetime, your heart hardens, and repentance becomes very difficult because you are so confirmed in wickedness. Sometimes there is no going back, though I suppose it is always possible.

Being that you're so anti homosexual, if I pm you my gay friends phone number, can you ring them for me and tell them they have eternal suffering and damnation to look forward to for their lifestyle? He's never been with a woman as it never felt right for him from his early teens, is in a long term relationship with another man for years now and has always been faithful to him, but being as hes an unnatural abomination (your words) I shouldnt be the one to tell him this, although he does believe in god, now if that isnt a true test of faith, to believe in the being that thinks you're an abomination even though he created you that way, what is?

enlighten us...

Ultravid

Ultravid wrote: »

Gen. 1 & 2

Gen. 2:18

Gen. 2:24

None of these have anything to do with gays.

Ultravid wrote: »

Gen. 19:24-28 - the Lord rained fire and brimstone on Sodom and Gomorrah as punishment for the sin of homosexuality. Homosexuality perverts God’s covenant with humanity.

Nope never says anything about man on man action.

Ultravid wrote: »

Gen 13:13; 18:20: while homosexuals argue that the sin in Genesis 19 was the sin of “inhospitality,” these verses show that the Sodomites were evil and wicked people before the alleged sin of inhospitality. That is because the Sodomites were guilty of homosexuality, not inhospitality. In fact, 2 Pet 2:6:8 says that Lot witnessed their evil sexual practices “day after day.” The Sodomites’ sin was daily and pervasive.

Nope

Ezekiel

16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

Nothing there about buttsecks.

Ultravid wrote: »

Gen 19:5: this confirms that the Sodomites’ sin is homosexuality. Here, the Sodomites mistaken the two angels for men and, surrounding Lot’s house, ask to have sex with them. When the yell to Lot “bring them out that we may know them,” the Hebrew for “to know” (yadah) in Gen 19:5 means having sexual relations. See, for example, Gen 4:25 where “yadah” refers to sexual relations between Adam and Eve.

So you can't tell the difference between gang rape and consensual sex?

Ultravid wrote: »

2 Pet 2:6-10:

Jude 7:

2 Peter 2:4-6:

Jude 5-7:

Nothing about gays in these.
They never say "homosexual acts".
They say preversions which could include many things.
Like abusing young boys and covering it up perhaps.

Ultravid wrote: »

Lev. 18:22, 29 - God commands a man never to lie with a male as with a female, or he will be cut off. This refers to supernatural death which is eternal separation from God. While the Old Covenant laws have been abrogated by the New Covenant, the Church has adopted their moral principles. Thus, the moral prohibitions on homosexuality still apply in the New Covenant, as Peter, Paul and Jude demonstrate.

So why was this one cherry picked?
Why not the ones about not talking to women on the rag? Or not letting short sighted people into church?
Or eating pig?

Ultravid wrote: »

Lev. 20:13 - God says that if a man lies with another man, he shall be put to death. From the very beginning, God has revealed that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered, unhealthy, and mortally sinful.

So if that law still applies is it moral to kill the gays?

Ultravid wrote: »

Deut. 22:5 - cross-dressing is also considered an abomination before God.

Cross-dressing is not the same as homosexuality.

Ultravid wrote: »

Matt. 19:6

Nothing here about gay sex.

Ultravid wrote: »

Rom. 1:26 - also, when a woman lies with another women (lesbianism), this is unnatural and a perversion. God wants His children to be pure and holy as He is holy. Paul condemns all homosexual acts, whether committed by men or women.

Huh the bible seems cool with it here:

Ruth
1:14 And they lifted up their voice, and wept again: and Orpah kissed her mother in law; but Ruth clave unto her.

So why didn't they mention the lesbos back in Leviticus with the other abominations like shrimp?

Ultravid wrote: »

Rom. 1:27 – Paul calls the practice of homosexuality shameless, unnatural and a perversity. It is contrary to the natural law, as it eviscerates the life-giving aspect of human sexuality and reduces it to a selfish, pleasure-seeking end.

He doesn't say any of that at all.

In fact:

Romans
1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Looks like God makes gays after all.

Ultravid wrote: »

1 Cor 6:9: Paul teaches that sodomites will not enter into the kingdom of God. The Greek word for “sodomite” (arsenokoites) literally means “male copulation” or “male sexual relations.” The Greek “arsen” means “male” and “koites” means “coitus” or “sexual relations.” Paul uses the same word in 1 Tim 1:10.

Or it could mean those who actually committed sins like in Sodom.
Seems you're infering a lot of meaning that ain't there.

He also says that effeminate men don't get in.

Ultravid wrote: »

1 Tim. 1:10 - sodomites are called ungodly and sinners, unholy and profane, lawless and disobedient. They are called by God to chastity. It is important to note that homosexual attractions and inclinations, while disordered and dangerous, are not by themselves sinful per se. It is the acting out on homosexual attraction that is sinful. Those with homosexual desires can still live a life worthy of Christ by remaining chaste and pure as they abstain from acting out on their desires.

Well as we can plainly see gays are no more profane, lawless and disobedient than anyone else.

Ultravid wrote: »

Blah Boh blah

Nothing to do with the gays.

Turtwig

Ultravid wrote: »

*sigh*

Both are against nature.

*bangs head on table*

edit: the Pope never said it was ok to abuse children. Never did he say that and never did he seek to defend them or make excuses for them.

Define "nature" Ultravid. What constitutes for/with nature and what constitutes against it. Surely, you don't eat your own fellow humans? Yet, this was purely natural among our ancestors and still is in parts of the world today. Not to mention among other animals too. Also, the female mantis fly loves to decapitate its male lover during sex because it increases chances of reproduction.Shur it's only natural, should we recommend it to human couples who have fertility problems? I mean using IV is unnatural, but chopping the head off well...

Xluna

robindch wrote: »

So is not dying from a serious bacterial infection when you take antibiotics. Are you saying that doctors are "against nature" too?

Don't forget the internet,books,the mentally and physically handicapped from birth ect.

Galvasean

Chris williams wrote: »

Not sure whats your issue with what I typed it has nothing to do with "haiku"
Looks to me like I'm more on topic as half the posts here are about Homersexuals

Pardon me, I just found the formatting of your post most perculiar. We have had an influx of new posters recently who post in such a way. I was wondering if there was anything specific to it?

iUseVi

Ultravid wrote: »

You reveal your gross ignorance of the Catholic Faith. Enough of this.

Well excuse me for not knowing the dogma of every Christian denomination. How many years of hell will an unforgiveful a homosexual get then?

dvpower

krudler wrote: »

So then child murders and rapists have nothing to fear as long as they say sorry on their deathbed? thats nice to know, heavens full of child molesting scumbags, but as they said sorry then in gods eyes they're ok.

You won't need to worry about them; you'll be in hell with all the other atheists.

krudler

dvpower wrote: »

You won't need to worry about them; you'll be in hell with all the other atheists.

I'd rather be there, least the music will be good

Galvasean

So... how about that Pope?

vibe666

Ultravid wrote: »

I'm not sure that it's as simple as that. When you give yourself over to evil, over a lifetime, your heart hardens, and repentance becomes very difficult because you are so confirmed in wickedness. Sometimes there is no going back, though I suppose it is always possible.

I'll have to take comfort in that knowing that there will be no forgiveness for a man who has covered up for and protected hundreds, if not thousands of the worst kiddie fiddlers for (at least) the last 40 years and that he will burn in hell for what he has done.

oh wait, hell is pretend, i keep forgetting. well, he should burn in Azkaban instead.

krudler

Xluna

Anything which occurs in the Universe is natural. Humans are a product of nature and what we do is also natural. But some ignorant religious people wrongly equate nature with goodness. Just because somethings natural does not make it good or bad. It's the effect it has on people which determines whether it's bad or not. Thus,paedophillia bad,homosexuality not bad.

The Mad Hatter

krudler wrote: »

No no no, dont go backtracking now,you posted :




All sins

ALL SINS

ALL SINS

So are you saying god is....wrong?

I think what he's saying is that (by impressively circular logic) no-one who has led a life of evil is capable of true deathbed repentance. So maybe that child murderer only killed one or two kids, or only did so for five minutes of his life.

Also: bloody hell, this thread is moving quickly.

vibe666

krudler wrote: »

I'd rather be there, least the music will be good

and it's plenty warm enough. standing around on a cloud all day in a robe with the wind blowing up you? no thanks i'll take hell thanks very much and make sure someone buries me with plenty of marshmallows.

Xluna

dvpower wrote: »

You won't need to worry about them; you'll be in hell with all the other atheists.

It can't be worse than on Earth listening to some of the verbal diarrhea spouted by certain Catholics on this thread. Anyway, sure are'nt all us atheists and "fags" perverted, sado masochists so we'll love getting red hot pokers rammed up our....:pac::D

Actually after searching a few online bibles I can't find a single thing said about pedophila at all.

Fancy that.

Delirium

Even as the representative of a deity, it still isn't enough for him to have faith that he'll be safe from harm.

ChocolateSauce

koth wrote: »

Even as the representative of a deity, it still isn't enough for him to have faith that he'll be safe from harm.

What the pope lacks is compassion and a sceptical mind, not a sense of self-preservation!

Chris williams

The best line in a book I've read (with regard to religion)was in The Brothers Karamozov, a monk explaining to his pupil that

The reason God didn't make us all instant believers from the instant of creation was that he wanted us to make our own choices.


So I don't really think God gives a f#ck as with any good parent
he/her/it just wants you to "be excellent to one another"

iUseVi

Chris williams wrote: »

The best line in a book I've read (with regard to religion)was in The Brothers Karamozov, a monk explaining to his pupil that

The reason God didn't make us all instant believers from the instant of creation was that he wanted us to make our own choices.


So I don't really think God gives a f#ck as with any good parent
he/her/it just wants you to "be excellent to one another"

Interesting theory but it has no more evidence than the theory that god is a class A jackass.

Wow this thread has really gone OT.

Zillah

Chris williams wrote: »

The reason God didn't make us all instant believers from the instant of creation was that he wanted us to make our own choices.

The notion that "choosing to believe" is important only makes sense in a universe where God either does not exist or is completely insane. Barrack Obama does not harp on about how the American people have a choice whether to believe he exists or not...it's just a total given, because he does exist.

However, if there were a shady cabal running the country and they claimed they had the president safely locked away inside the White House, but no one ever saw him or heard directly from him then you can see how quickly the notion of believing or not believing he is there becomes important.



Also, Ultravid, you speak insanity. Homosexuality exists in many species, species which according to your own beliefs do not have free will, and hence they perform only their natural function as dictated by God.

That aside, when you're in a car accident I'll happily instruct your rescuers to not use the jaws of life as you reject all unnatural things. I presume you're praying to God for your posts to appear here, right? You couldn't be using a computer to lambast others for doing unnatural things now would you? Because that would make you a flaming hypocrite with thoughts so ridiculous they're not even internally consistent.

krudler

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

I think what he's saying is that (by impressively circular logic) no-one who has led a life of evil is capable of true deathbed repentance. So maybe that child murderer only killed one or two kids, or only did so for five minutes of his life.

Also: bloody hell, this thread is moving quickly.

But thats my point, christians believe that only denying Jesus is the most unforgivrable sin, or something to that effect, i wasnt really listening, so whether you murder a child because you're bored one day or massacre hundreds throughout your life, whats the difference?

strobe

aidan24326 wrote: »

It may have escaped your notice but homosexuality is prevalent in many other animals besides humans

(Off topic) It is? Could you link a few sources for me. Thanks.

Ickle Magoo

strobe wrote: »

(Off topic) It is? Could you link a few sources for me. Thanks.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20427370.800-homosexual-selection-the-power-of-samesex-liaisons.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6066606.stm

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html

strobe

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20427370.800-homosexual-selection-the-power-of-samesex-liaisons.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6066606.stm

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html

Thanks. Doesn't really seem to suggest that exclusive homosexuality is in anyway common in animal species in the wild. I've a lot of follow up questions and comments to make on that but this is the wrong thread and forum. Might try in biology.

Ickle Magoo

strobe wrote: »

Thanks. Doesn't really seem to suggest that exclusive homosexuality is in anyway common in animal species in the wild. I've a lot of follow up questions and comments to make on that but this is the wrong thread and forum. Might try in biology.

First you state you want sources for homosexuality being prevalent in the animal kingdom, now you are dismissing them because they don't suggest animals that are exclusively homosexual are common? Either animals partake in homosexual acts and so those acts are far from "unnatural" or they don't - I'm not sure why you are now concentrating on exclusivity as being the important factor?

krudler

My girlfriends dog is gay, always trying to hump other male dogs, never females

tootired

dvpower wrote: »

You won't need to worry about them; you'll be in hell with all the other atheists.

If there is a god(and I don't believe there is) why would athiests go to hell when they die?
Surely your god is a forgiving god and there is a place for everyone(even athiests) in the kingdom of heaven or some nonesense along these lines.
And another thing I truly believe all the rapist/sadist clergy DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD, if they did they would be terrified of dying and going to hell and their belief should have stopped them.
The flesh is not weak some people are just evil and power hungry. No amount of prayer will change this.

dvpower

tootired wrote: »

If there is a god(and I don't believe there is) why would athiests go to hell when they die?
Surely your god is a forgiving god and there is a place for everyone(even athiests) in the kingdom of heaven or some nonesense along these lines.
And another thing I truly believe all the rapist/sadist clergy DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD, if they did they would be terrified of dying and going to hell and their belief should have stopped them.
The flesh is not weak some people are just evil and power hungry. No amount of prayer will change this.

You must be new? (Hi)
No. I'm afraid its off to hell for atheists (there is some hope for people who've never heard of God, but that's a different story).
But, hey, I didn't make the rules; they were made up by the same people who made up God.

strobe

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

First you state you want sources for homosexuality being prevalent in the animal kingdom, now you are dismissing them because they don't suggest animals that are exclusively homosexual are common? Either animals partake in homosexual acts and so those acts are far from "unnatural" or they don't - I'm not sure why you are now concentrating on exclusivity as being the important factor?

I just presumed Aidan meant exclusive homosexuality in the wild, as in a non human alternative to what I usually take homosexuality in humans to mean, i.e someone that is only attracted to members of thier own gender, bi-sexual, heterosexual and a-sexual being the other options, I take it that wasn't the case, my misinterpretation I guess. I wasn't dismissing the links you posted flipantly, I just misconstrued what Aidan and your links were suggesting evidence of.