Israeli apartheid

joesoap007

wonder did they wear their tshirts with Dead babies, mothers weeping on their childrens graves,guns aimed at a children and bombed mosques

nicer pictures
http://photos.upi.com/News/1393dbedf4723dda8551c4fd5be51feb/Palestinians-Protest-Reopening-of-Synagogue-in-Jerusalem_5.jpg

http://photos.upi.com/sbs/3094/51aed5116f406141cd64a6812b6c8b65/An-Israeli-undercover-police-arrests-a-Palestinian_2.jpg
undercover police or settler scum

BlaasForRafa

joesoap007 wrote: »

wonder did they wear their tshirts with Dead babies, mothers weeping on their childrens graves,guns aimed at a children and bombed mosques

Well what do you say about a society that forces one gender to look like mindless drones http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/News/Day-of-Rage-in-East-Jerusalem/3094/28

The palestinian version of Wheres Waldo http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/News/Day-of-Rage-in-East-Jerusalem/3094/11

wes

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Well what do you say about a society that forces one gender to look like mindless drones http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/News/Day-of-Rage-in-East-Jerusalem/3094/28

The palestinian version of Wheres Waldo http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/News/Day-of-Rage-in-East-Jerusalem/3094/11

Same would apply to Ultra Orthodox Jewish community, but is really neither here nor there. I am sure Ultra Orthodox Women would dress in a there own modest manner.

Palestinians deserve equal rights regardless of there Religous beliefs, and in the case of Israel, there Ultra Orthodox communities Religous beliefs are catered for. So I see no reason why Orthodox Palestinian Muslims or Christians should not be similary accomodated.

Also, Women will wear different colour head scarves and dress differently in plenty of other circumstance, in the pictures you present they could easily be students wearing uniforms, and I feel you mis-representing things.

The Saint

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Well what do you say about a society that forces one gender to look like mindless drones http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/News/Day-of-Rage-in-East-Jerusalem/3094/28

The palestinian version of Wheres Waldo http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/News/Day-of-Rage-in-East-Jerusalem/3094/11

What society would that be and who's forcing them?

anymore

wes wrote: »

Same would apply to Ultra Orthodox Jewish community, but is really neither here nor there. I am sure Ultra Orthodox Women would dress in a there own modest manner.

Palestinians deserve equal rights regardless of there Religous beliefs, and in the case of Israel, there Ultra Orthodox communities Religous beliefs are catered for. So I see no reason why Orthodox Palestinian Muslims or Christians should not be similary accomodated.

Also, Women will wear different colour head scarves and dress differently in plenty of other circumstance, in the pictures you present they could easily be students wearing uniforms, and I feel you mis-representing things.

And what of the rights of the Palestinian male hairdressers who have been forced to stop cutting the hair of Plaestinian women ? Any rights for them ?

wes

anymore wrote: »

And what of the rights of the Palestinian male hairdressers who have been forced to stop cutting the hair of Plaestinian women ? Any rights for them ?

Nice non-sequitor btw.

Of course they should have the right to cut Womens hair. Fail to see the relevance to what I was talking about, as I was talking about Israel and not Hamas.

So, how do you feel about Israel giving Palestinians lesser rights than Israeli's then? Good thing, or bad thing? Neccessary for the Zionist dream of a Greater Israel? Can Apartheid ever be justifiable any grounds? Is it ok for Israel to engage in Apartheid to further there goal of a Jewish state?!?

joesoap007

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Well what do you say about a society that forces one gender to look like mindless drones http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/News/Day-of-Rage-in-East-Jerusalem/3094/28

The palestinian version of Wheres Waldo http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/News/Day-of-Rage-in-East-Jerusalem/3094/11

are you joking.its their way of life..these women are making them selfs heard ..and you say mindless drones

tshirts
http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Mar/Week3/15245789

BlaasForRafa

joesoap007 wrote: »

are you joking.its their way of life..these women are making them selfs heard ..and you say mindless drones

Its slightly tongue in cheek but in another sense its deadly serious. You can't seriously say that women in middle east countries have the same freedoms as those in western countries or indeed women in Israel. By "their way of life" you mean their being forced to live in certain ways, dress in certain ways?, yeah I guess it is their way of life...mores the pity for them.

JustinDee

This forum has gotten like Press TV.
Shame really . . .

paulaa

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Its slightly tongue in cheek but in another sense its deadly serious. You can't seriously say that women in middle east countries have the same freedoms as those in western countries or indeed women in Israel. By "their way of life" you mean their being forced to live in certain ways, dress in certain ways?, yeah I guess it is their way of life...mores the pity for them.

I think you're forgetting a few things but I do agree with you about the lack of freedom for women in the ME, including Israel. What about synagogues where there is segregation of man and women. ? What about the buses used by the extremist ultra Orthodox. Yep, Israel fits right in there with the other ME countries !!!

Miriam Shear says she was traveling to pray at the Western Wall in Jerusalem's Old City early on November 24 when a group of ultra-Orthodox (Haredi) men attacked her for refusing to move to the back of the Egged No. 2 bus.

In her first interview since the incident, Shear says that on the bus three weeks ago, she was slapped, kicked, punched and pushed by a group of men who demanded that she sit in the back of the bus with the other women

http://haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=801449&contrassID=19

BlaasForRafa

paulaa wrote: »

I think you're forgetting a few things but I do agree with you about the lack of freedom for women in the ME, including Israel. What about synagogues where there is segregation of man and women. ? What about the buses used by the extremist ultra Orthodox. Yep, Israel fits right in there with the other ME countries !!!



http://haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=801449&contrassID=19

The ultra-orthodox are a complete pain in the hole and so are their beliefs and practices. As I said before they also have low rates of participation in the IDF so they do little to justify the inordinate burden they put on the rest of Israeli society.

paulaa

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

The ultra-orthodox are a complete pain in the hole and so are their beliefs and practices. As I said before they also have low rates of participation in the IDF so they do little to justify the inordinate burden they put on the rest of Israeli society.

I have to agree with you again here. They are just the same as the religious extremists in any religion.

Saying that, isn't the Greater Israel enterprise based on the oft repeated phrase " God gave us this country". To me that is as crazy as anything the zealots come out with.

There should be a separation of church and state in Israel and fast.

anymore

paulaa wrote: »

I have to agree with you again here. They are just the same as the religious extremists in any religion.

Saying that, isn't the Greater Israel enterprise based on the oft repeated phrase " God gave us this country". To me that is as crazy as anything the zealots come out with.

There should be a separation of church and state in Israel and fast.

Lets not jsut call for an end to discrimination by Israel bur by Hanas, Iran, Afghainaisran, Pakistan etc, etc.

wes

anymore wrote: »

Lets not jsut call for an end to discrimination by Israel bur by Hanas, Iran, Afghainaisran, Pakistan etc, etc.

The thread is about Israel and specifically Apartheid, and not those other countries. So in the context of the thread, it would be irrelevant to bring up other countries. Now if you want to discuss those countries, you can start a thread, no need to derail things here.

anymore

wes wrote: »

The thread is about Israel and specifically Apartheid, and not those other countries. So in the context of the thread, it would be irrelevant to bring up other countries. Now if you want to discuss those countries, you can start a thread, no need to derail things here.

If you want to discuss Israeli apartheid. then explain that palestinian terrorism was the specific and only cause of the enermous security walls Israel has had to build - thats real apartheid.


I appreciate that a there is a continous effort on this site to demonise Israel. and protect Israels's enemies ( whio are the cause of the unrest in the middle east) from criticial comment, but this country is a democracy !

wes

anymore wrote: »

If you want to discuss Israeli apartheid. then explain that palestinian terrorism was the specific and only cause of the enermous security walls Israel has had to build - thats real apartheid.

I have asked the following question several times before, so heres hoping for an answer this time:

Why doesn't Israel build its so called security wall on there own land?

How exactly does a security wall that isn't complete, prevent suicide bombing? Surely, they could just go through the gaps. Perhaps there is another reason for them stopping, what with PA security forces stepping things up, and a realisation that suicide bombings don't help there cause.

So, you say Israel had to build the wall, well I would disagree, but at the very least they didn't have to build it on someone else land, which clearly shows the whole wall to be another Israeli land grab.

**EDIT**
Palestinian terrorism incidently didn't happen in a vacuum. Israel was stealing there land, and treating them like crap decades before the Palestinians resorted to suicide bombing and the like.
**END EDIT**

anymore wrote: »

I appreciate that a there is a continous effort on this site to demonise Israel. and protect Israels's enemies ( whio are the cause of the unrest in the middle east) from criticial comment, but this country is a democracy !

Being a democracy (and in Israel case its a democracy for one ethnic group) doesn't give you a get out of jail free card.

Secondly, it Israel is being made to look bad, its due to there own actions, and no one elses.

Also, accusing people of "protecting" Israel's enemies is laughable. Sure, I could accuse people of "protecting" Palestines enemies, and it would make about as much sense. Rethoric that targets other a ill defined group of other posters, isn't helpful to the discussion. We should talk about the topic, and not ill defined groups of poster we disagree with.

paulaa

anymore wrote: »

Lets not jsut call for an end to discrimination by Israel bur by Hanas, Iran, Afghainaisran, Pakistan etc, etc.

Ah But Israel claims to be a true western democracy, not a theocracy, the other countries don't.

BlaasForRafa

wes wrote: »

The thread is about Israel and specifically Apartheid, and not those other countries. So in the context of the thread, it would be irrelevant to bring up other countries. Now if you want to discuss those countries, you can start a thread, no need to derail things here.

Hang on a sec, threads are often derailed by anti-israeli posters who don't keep to the subject of the thread. I specifically remember the thread regarding an upcoming Gaza invasion by Israel which was disproved as an Iranian propoganda piece to detract from the internal Iranian problems yet the thread was continued and used for any old slur to be thrown at Israel.

joesoap007

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Its slightly tongue in cheek but in another sense its deadly serious. You can't seriously say that women in middle east countries have the same freedoms as those in western countries or indeed women in Israel. By "their way of life" you mean their being forced to live in certain ways, dress in certain ways?, yeah I guess it is their way of life...mores the pity for them.

i understand that 100%, god love them to.but its like that from day 1.maybe some day it will be better life for women living there.
pitty they all have deal with apartheid nazi 4th reich israel aswell:rolleyes:

BlaasForRafa

wes wrote: »

I have asked the following question several times before, so heres hoping for an answer this time:

Why doesn't Israel build its so called security wall on there own land?

How exactly does a security wall that isn't complete, prevent suicide bombing? Surely, they could just go through the gaps. Perhaps there is another reason for them stopping, what with PA security forces stepping things up, and a realisation that suicide bombings don't help there cause.

So, you say Israel had to build the wall, well I would disagree, but at the very least they didn't have to build it on someone else land, which clearly shows the whole wall to be another Israeli land grab.

**EDIT**
Palestinian terrorism incidently didn't happen in a vacuum. Israel was stealing there land, and treating them like crap decades before the Palestinians resorted to suicide bombing and the like.
**END EDIT**



Being a democracy (and in Israel case its a democracy for one ethnic group) doesn't give you a get out of jail free card.

Israel is a democracy, non-jews have the vote just the same as jews.

Regarding the wall, it should keep to the border except where geographical features make this impractical. As always the settlements complicate the issue, in my opinion they should have been left fend for themselves but in some cases the wall has included them.

I don't think theres any doubt that the wall has made it less easy for terrorists to get into Israel. Even though its not yet complete, it is complete enough in urban areas to be a deterrent to suicide bombers. If a bomber has to go off into the desert to cross the border and then journey for miles inside israel then its much more likely they will be stopped.

Pete M.

If only the Wall kept the Israeli Terrorists aka IDF out of Palentinan areas, then it may be a good idea. But the tanks and bulldozers just keep coming.

What's the body count ratio over the last couple of years? Easily 10:1.

And a immigrant worker gets killed by a rocket fired by Palestinan militants, front page news, while Palestinian kids get killed every week, don't hear nought about it unless you go look for the info.

I bet the Palestinians would love to keep the Israelis away from their houses too, but they can't even bring in cement to build a home for themselves.

Apartheid for sure. And those who apologise for it aren't even worth entering into a debate with.

FlutterinBantam

Where is your info about 'Palestinian kids getting killed every week'?

Can you back up that observation sir?

BlaasForRafa

Pete M. wrote: »

If only the Wall kept the Israeli Terrorists aka IDF out of Palentinan areas, then it may be a good idea. But the tanks and bulldozers just keep coming.

What's the body count ratio over the last couple of years? Easily 10:1.

And a immigrant worker gets killed by a rocket fired by Palestinan militants, front page news, while Palestinian kids get killed every week, don't hear nought about it unless you go look for the info.

I bet the Palestinians would love to keep the Israelis away from their houses too, but they can't even bring in cement to build a home for themselves.

Apartheid for sure. And those who apologise for it aren't even worth entering into a debate with.

Stupid comments like calling the Idf terrorists or references to apartheid do nothing to forward this debate. If you want to debate then do so sensibly, if you don't then get lost.

and like Flutterinbantam said, have you actual evidence for kids being killed "every week" or is that just hyperbole?

joesoap007

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Israel is a democracy, non-jews have the vote just the same as jews.

Regarding the wall, it should keep to the border except where geographical features make this impractical. As always the settlements complicate the issue, in my opinion they should have been left fend for themselves but in some cases the wall has included them.

I don't think theres any doubt that the wall has made it less easy for terrorists to get into Israel. Even though its not yet complete, it is complete enough in urban areas to be a deterrent to suicide bombers. If a bomber has to go off into the desert to cross the border and then journey for miles inside israel then its much more likely they will be stopped.

what about all the roads it blocks what about all the people who cant go to work bank hospital what about scum bag idf not turning up to open gates checkpionts.what about pregnant women been turned away and them in labour,,

this wall should be knocked down.

BlaasForRafa

joesoap007 wrote: »

what about all the roads it blocks what about all the people who cant go to work bank hospital what about scum bag idf not turning up to open gates checkpionts.what about pregnant women been turned away and them in labour,,

this wall should be knocked down.

make sure you remember to breathe there lad.

joesoap007

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Where is your info about 'Palestinian kids getting killed every week'?

Can you back up that observation sir?

http://cheztwosret.blogspot.com/2007/01/819-palestinian-children-shot-in-their.html


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/4279102/Bullets-in-the-brain-shrapnel-in-the-spine-the-terrible-injuries-suffered-by-children-of-Gaza.html

http://www.pcrf.net/

were have you been living? the moon

Nodin

anymore wrote: »

I appreciate that a there is a continous effort on this site to demonise Israel. and protect Israels's enemies ( whio are the cause of the unrest in the middle east) from criticial comment, but this country is a democracy !

....but what has that to do with anything? They're still outside their own borders building colonies. It doesn't really matter who leads them or how, or who and what leads the rest of the countries in the region. It's wrong. The fact that the others aren't without sin doesn't let Israel off the hook.

joesoap007

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

make sure you remember to breathe there lad.

cheers

FlutterinBantam

joesoap007 wrote: »

http://cheztwosret.blogspot.com/2007/01/819-palestinian-children-shot-in-their.html


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/4279102/Bullets-in-the-brain-shrapnel-in-the-spine-the-terrible-injuries-suffered-by-children-of-Gaza.html

http://www.pcrf.net/

were have you been living? the moon

While those accounts are harrowing, they in no way back up your assertion of 'palestinian kids getting killed every week'

If unfortunately palestinian children get killed it's usually because the terrorists use hospitals and schools as bases to launch rockets.

http://cgi.stanford.edu/group/wais/cgi-bin/?p=26083

Gardalover

Sykes wrote: »

Ireland? neutral? I don't think it's particularly neutral to welcome in Nazis after the war with open arms, giving them homes and finding them new jobs to make the rest of their lives all nice and rosy after having just committed one of the most heinous acts in humanity

You know who else were allies to the Nazis? the 'Palestinians'. Although that's not mentioned in the media, conveniently forgotten about. There was a time during the 90's that it was fashionable amongst 'Palestinians' to change their names to 'Hitler'. A 'palestinian' government minister changed his name to Hitler.

No wonder you lot are so up their arse. You share a lot in common. Terrorism, Nazism and anti-semitism. It wasn't surprising therefore to find warm relations between the IRA and Hezbollah as well as Libya.

I've tried to tell Israelis that their biggest enemy in Europe is Ireland and the Irish people. They don't 'get it' yet because they're still caught up in the global P.R. campaign the Americans ran for you which turned you from a violent, sectarian society that welcomed the Nazis, to 'loveable, drunken rogues always up for a laugh and a party'.

Maby Sykes is right ....