urban bird trapping: more common than you might think

Capercaille

dodderangler wrote: »

Did you touch the property opening it up to release it?
Then yes that is breaking the law
Therefore you have no right to do it
Whether you done harm to it or not you opened up a cage belonging to someone else so its THEIR property so you did break the law and have no right!
And saying you were a park ranger means f all to Me as I've met park rangers that wouldn't know a chicken from a squirrel


Also it may be the ring neck that is most popular but from what ive read pheasants were first introduced by the Normans in the 12th century to Ireland and been that long in this country I wouldn't consider them as foreign species anymore

Pheasants are as alien a species as you can get in Ireland. The nearest native Pheasnts breed in the Caucasus. There as native in Ireland as Sika deer/Grey squirrels. Only for human intervention the species would never exist in Ireland.

At least species such as Bank vole/Red deer are native UK and reasonably fit into the Irish eco-system, but they are still not native.

Which would you rather have as a breeding species in Ireland. Magpie or Ring-necked Pheasant?

OpenYourEyes

dodderangler wrote: »

Also it may be the ring neck that is most popular but from what ive read pheasants were first introduced by the Normans in the 12th century to Ireland and been that long in this country I wouldn't consider them as foreign species anymore

Most of us have no real problem with Pheasants, but if theres a conflict between a non-native species (i.e. pheasant) and a native species (i.e. buzzard, stoat, pine marten etc) then there is no way the non-native should get the preferential treatment.

While I personally wouldn't stop the use of larsen traps and legal control of corvids to protect pheasants, I think the fact that pheasants are introduced and magpies are naturally occurring here is something some people should not forget. For instance if someone is walking around a town, sees a Magpie, and thinks "bloody magpie, nothing but vermin" has an awful and warped perspective of nature. Magpies are classed as vermin because they cause problems to ground nesting birds - every magpie is not inherintly "vermin", just those that are in areas where there are breeding ground nesting birds.

(i mean that in reference to "vermin" as an adjective rather than the legal definition)

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

dodderangler wrote: »

Did you touch the property opening it up to release it?
Then yes that is breaking the law
Therefore you have no right to do it
Whether you done harm to it or not you opened up a cage belonging to someone else so its THEIR property so you did break the law and have no right!
And saying you were a park ranger means f all to Me as I've met park rangers that wouldn't know a chicken from a squirrel


Also it may be the ring neck that is most popular but from what ive read pheasants were first introduced by the Normans in the 12th century to Ireland and been that long in this country I wouldn't consider them as foreign species anymore

Firstly, no need to get abusive. Secondly, I can assure you I am well acquainted with the law in this regard and did nothing illegal. If you want to cite the legislation please do so and I'll rebut at that stage.. As for chickens and squirrels, any full time professional NPWS ranger knows more than you do about the environment.

Finally, whether you accept it or not Pheasants are an alien introduced species. They were first introduced in the 16t century but were introduced none the less. In addition, 94% of pheasants are captive bred as game birds and released into the environment for hunting purposes.

patgmail

Aniya Muscular Ointment wrote: »

Firstly, no need to get abusive. Secondly, I can assure you I am well acquainted with the law in this regard and did nothing illegal. If you want to cite the legislation please do so and I'll rebut at that stage.. As for chickens and squirrels, any full time professional NPWS ranger knows more than you do about the environment.

Finally, whether you accept it or not Pheasants are an alien introduced species. They were first introduced in the 16t century but were introduced none the less. In addition, 94% of pheasants are captive bred as game birds and released into the environment for hunting purposes.

Well said on all points - including the abusive response.

I don't claim to know a whole lot about nature but even I know pheasants are not a native species while magpies are. yes the magpie can talk eggs and young birds but that is purely natural while pheasants released by gun clubs eating seeds and berries in competition with our songbirds is far from natural to our ecosystem in ireland. I am astounded at the way someone here can't just accept that they were wrong.
My father in law is a barrister and I asked him about releasing the birds from the trap. He checked for me and says that if they were unattended for too long that under wildlife legislation you were correct in your actions. Also opening the trap does not constitute tresspass or damage to property.

dodderangler

How the hell am I wrong?
You released a bird being trapped for a reason by opening a Larson trap belonging to someone else
You have no right to do so and you know it
If you seem a fox in a trap or a feral cat would you release it?

OpenYourEyes

dodderangler wrote: »

How the hell am I wrong?
You released a bird being trapped for a reason by opening a Larson trap belonging to someone else
You have no right to do so and you know it
If you seem a fox in a trap or a feral cat would you release it?

There is a difference between what you shouldn't do because you have no right and what you shouldn't do because its illegal! You might be right that they shouldn't have released the bird, but you are wrong in saying that they broke a law in doing so.

patgmail

dodderangler wrote: »

How the hell am I wrong?
You released a bird being trapped for a reason by opening a Larson trap belonging to someone else
You have no right to do so and you know it
If you seem a fox in a trap or a feral cat would you release it?

I checked this out (see above) and he did nothing wrong. as you were asked can you quote the law that made it illegal?

dodderangler

It's someone's property and you are not allowed to touch someone's property without permission
Are you saying that is not the law?

OpenYourEyes

dodderangler wrote: »

It's someone's property and you are not allowed to touch someone's property without permission
Are you saying that is not the law?

My guess would be that damaging someones property is illegal, stealing someones property is illegal, and trespassing when you have been told not to be on the land is illegal

-but the trap wasn't damaged, it wasn't stolen, and there was no prior warning to keep off private land. (although In Srameen's case it might not have even been private land, I can't remember..). So no law was broken.
Whether he should or shouldn't have done it is a seperate issue.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

dodderangler wrote: »

It's someone's property and you are not allowed to touch someone's property without permission
Are you saying that is not the law?

You seem unable to understand the facts as given to you on anything. I explained that the traps were on public property and unattended for days therefore as a wildlife officer I was entitled to release the birds. Indeed anybody could do so legally under legislation from the early 1980s.

If I came across a trapped Fox, in the same circumstances, I would certainly release it.

I am aghast at your inability to accept matters of fact.

OpenYourEyes

Aniya Muscular Ointment wrote: »

I explained that the traps were on public property and unattended for days...

@Dodderangler, as a matter of interest and clarification, do you think he was wrong to release it despite the fact that the call bird was unattended for days and could have been sitting there injured, hungry, thirsty sick etc. ?

dodderangler

Aniya Muscular Ointment wrote: »

You seem unable to understand the facts as given to you on anything. I explained that the traps were on public property and unattended for days therefore as a wildlife officer I was entitled to release the birds. Indeed anybody could do so legally under legislation from the early 1980s.

If I came across a trapped Fox, in the same circumstances, I would certainly release it.

I am aghast at your inability to accept matters of fact.

How do you know it was unattended for days
We're you standing watching it everyday? Every minute? No I highly doubt
As for the fox that's worse you've no right to release it either
Another do gooder who is so ignorant in realising why these animals are being trapped.
Maybe one day you'll release another and I hope for your sake the owner of the trap is not watching as he won't take too kindly of you in doing so. I certainly wouldn't.
I'm done on this now as none of you seem to understand the whole point of trapping except open your eyes

dodderangler

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

@Dodderangler, as a matter of interest and clarification, do you think he was wrong to release it despite the fact that the call bird was unattended for days and could have been sitting there injured, hungry, thirsty sick etc. ?

Yes he had no right
He could've complained if he found out who the owner is and could've gotten something done but had no right in releasing it himself

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

You keep on with the no right no right. I told you I had every legal right . Yes I did observe over a period of time as the traps were on my beat and, as I already said , in a special conservation area. Any idiot could see the trapped bird was unattended for so many reason that I would not waste my breath explaining to you. A Fox mistreated in the same way would also warrant release.

I am not going to waste any more of my time with you on this because you have not replied with one iota of evidence that in the circumstances described anything was wrong. You just keep digging a bigger hole so I will leave you to it.

patgmail

dodderangler wrote: »

Yes he had no right
He could've complained if he found out who the owner is and could've gotten something done but had no right in releasing it himself

That is total nonsense. You fish, so would you leave a dieing pike or trout caught in a net while you found out who was responsible and let it die in the meantime. I know the trapping in itself was legal but leaving it unattended was not. you just seem to want to disagree with everything even when blatantly wrong. you would not accept that pheasants are an introduced species and now that an unattended trapped animal can be legally released by an officer of the state.

dodderangler

dodderangler wrote: »

Also it may be the ring neck that is most popular but from what ive read pheasants were first introduced by the Normans in the 12th century to Ireland and been that long in this country I wouldn't consider them as foreign species anymore

Here is a post from myself earlier and I clearly stated that they were introduced in the 12th century by the Normans .so I don't know why you'd say that I couldn't accept them as a introduced species?
It was in 12th century so I'd hardly call them a foreign species now it was that long ago

patgmail

dodderangler wrote: »

Here is a post from myself earlier and I clearly stated that they were introduced in the 12th century by the Normans .so I don't know why you'd say that I couldn't accept them as a introduced species?
It was in 12th century so I'd hardly call them a foreign species now it was that long ago

sweet! you were told time is not a factor in this. an alien introduced species is always that. it does not change with time. anyway most pheasants are reared by gun clubs and are not true wild birds at all. around here we have to slow down on the road after they are released each year because they wander about aimlessly unsure what to do. I saw a hunter last year walk up to a bird then fire a shot in the air to scare it into flight before he shot it.
how long more do we have to have grey squirrels before you consider them native? let it go boy, you are not right so just accept it. Still waiting to see the legislation you say was broken and how it sits against the relevant wildlife legislation.

magicbastarder

dodderangler wrote: »

Songbirds are declining
Corvids are rapidly producing ( see where I'm going with this)

i can see where you're going with this - you're about to make a classic simple mistake of confusing causation and correlation.

magicbastarder

dodderangler wrote: »

It was in 12th century so I'd hardly call them a foreign species now it was that long ago

a species which was artificially introduced but which has managed to establish and 'integrate' itself into a new ecosystem, and breed successfully, such as beech, is regarded as a naturalised (but not native) species.

but pheasants as a whole would not be considered to be naturalised as the vast majority are artificially reared. it's about as native as the spud.

Qualitymark

Unfollowing because of thread creep. If the thread gets back to the question of trapping songbirds, maybe someone might PM me.

Kess73

Mod Post: A reminder to all in this thread to remain civil.

The topics in the thread may be somewhat divisive but there is a big difference between debating strongly and just being rude.

From this post on, keep things on topic, and keep it civil. I won't be posting a second time to ask for this. All that have strayed into uncivil territory earlier in the thread can consider this a final warning

Bejubby

I knew a lad who was trapping goldfinches and other birds.he had flights made for them,then sombody threatned to report him or somthing like that and he left them all go.

Now he has feeders and birdboxes out,so a total turnaround for the better and everyones happy