urban bird trapping: more common than you might think

RareVintage

A neighbour of mine in a housing estate, Co. Cork, has the illegal (and ignorant) hobby of trapping wild birds in his back garden. He has a rather distressed goldfinch in a cage and a variety of amateurish traps.
Investigation ongoing but unfortunately I've no chance of staying anonymous if he's challenged. That would involve a guarda presence with a search warrant. Sadly the risk of hostile or violent confrontation can't be ruled out and he'd know it was me if I get the guards involved.

If you see the like going on (and there's no risk to your anonymity) then report it in the first instance to the National Parks & Wildlife Services. A Ranger called to my house and was very sympathetic and gave me sound advice.

I have to live with the sound of the "lure" bird singing in despair all day.
It makes me MAD!!

RareVintage

pics removed

gzoladz

That's disgusting. Can you not make an anonymus report?

Or perhaps try to discourage him? Not sure what else to suggest, I can imagine what type of person that may be....

RareVintage

I did a quick 'google' on this and found the following:
From Seanad Éireann - Volume 170 - 13 November, 2002

Mr. Finucane: When we recently discussed the Nice agreement we spoke about the accession of ten countries, one of which was Malta. There is an illicit trade going on with regard to our Irish native songbirds, such as the bullfinches, goldfinches and other songbirds, particularly to Malta. Those birds are being traded at €50 per bird and they are regarded with the same respect as budgerigars in such countries. They are also shot for sport and are regarded as a delicacy. Trappers are trapping these birds even in our own parts. In counties such as Wexford and Waterford, bullfinches and goldfinches are practically extinct. I ask the Leader to take up this matter with the appropriate Minister and the Maltese authorities to stamp out this business or the dawn chorus with which we are all familiar will come to an end in the near future and we will regret the loss of all the species involved.

And a couple of news stories:
A horror story from the Carlow People
Tuesday January 05 2010

WILD GOLDFINCHES were being caught by unscrupulous poachers in Carlow town who then sold on their live prey for illegal breeding.

Carlow Gardai found one goldfinch impaled on a stick as a decoy while another was stamped to death on a waste ground near Éire Óg GFC.

Eight live goldfinches were discovered trapped in cages in an elaborate set-up designed to trap the country's most colourful birds.

'One fabulous little bird was impaled on a stick as a decoy,' Inspector Martin Walker said. 'That just shows what the people that we're dealing with are like.'

The grounds beside the Éire Óg club were the ideal feeding patches for the birds who feast on thistle seeds.

And a story that looks similar to my experience, only with a successful resolution, from the Birmingham Mail of December 2006:
A WILD bird has been rescued by police after being discovered in a home-made trap in the Midlands.

Officers discovered the goldfinch stuck inside a wooden-framed box in the Kidderminster area of Worcestershire after a tip-off.

The box, known as a decoy trap, has several compartments, one of which will contain a wild bird.

This is used to attract another bird into the trap. The offenders then breed the two birds and sell the offspring.

Police today warned people who trap wild birds they could be jailed for up to six months and fined up to £5,000.

The rescued goldfinch has been handed over to the RSPCA. It is expected to be released back into the wild soon.

RSPCA Inspector Neil Tysall said: "We are delighted the police take an active interest in wildlife crime and view this as a very serious matter and we hope that any perpetrators put before the court receive a very serious penalty.

"The RSPCA and the police have a long history of working in partnership and will continue to do so in order to investigate all aspects of wildlife crime."

Wildlife crime officer PC Julian Ward said: "We are appealing to people to be vigilant and if they see anything suspicious, to let us know.

"This is an offence against the Wildlife and Countryside Act. Offences under this act can result in up to six months imprisonment and/or a fine of up to £5,000 and any vehicles or equipment used or suspected of being used can be seized."

RareVintage

It is disgusting indeed. As I type the poor little goldfinch in the metal cage is flying from side to side and singing away non-stop.

The problem for me is as I said above... if I were to insist on getting the guards involved he'd definitely know it was me. Aggro could result... what can I do? (a rhetorical question)

RareVintage

This neighbour of mine has been putting the metal cage + wooden trap onto a mount on the shed in the afternoons, otherwise it's kept in the shed.
As it's Saturday the cage has been out since 9 o'clock. With the sun shining into the shed you can now see his "holding cage" inside the shed.
Unfortunately I don't have a decent enough camera to get a picture of the poor goldfinch in the metal cage.

Everett

While walking through my local forest a couple of months ago i seen one of those boxes thats on top of the bird cage.It was on the ground in a pool of seed, didnt notice any decoy birds though.Didnt take much notice and carried on.

RareVintage

In my neighbour's case, the lure bird is in the metal cage. The wooden yoke on top is some kind of trap but without a bird in it.
If you see that sort of trap again then report it (with a photo if you have a camera) or destroy it (or both).
Birds that are trapped legitimately for ringing and surveys will be caught in nets (as far as I know) and there would be people there. Any trap like this left out is just theft for profit.

I can just about understand stealing eggs or birds like falcons which can be sold for thousands but abusing the birds in your garden for a few euros or just to have one in a cage just leaves me dumbfounded (and MAD!!)

RareVintage

Thanks to the advice I found on "Joey the Lips" Bird Seed thread below I've just ordered a load of Nyjer (thistle) seed & feeders from CJ Wildlife which apparently goldfinches have a taste for. They're going to have all they can eat in my garden so hopefully they'll be avoiding the trapper's.

I also have a small plan on the go to hopefully make him desist without risking bringing strife into my life by him figuring out that I'm onto his crime. I'll keep you guys posted on this thread.

I've learned that a first offence for possessing a wild bird, or just the traps laid out, will get you a €500 fine and or 3 months in a cage of your own!
How I'd love to watch the guards raiding his house and taking him away!! Sadly I can't afford to risk the retaliation...

doctor evil

If its for an illegal trade it is disgusting alright.

There are Larsen traps which are used to catch magpies which are legal. A magpie is used as a decoy bird and it must always be provided with food and water.

RareVintage

In my research I've read through some of the legislation and as far as I can see all wild birds are protected and trapping illegal, with exceptions:
hunting exceptions (I didn't read through all that)
you have a licence of one kind or another

Perhaps there is some exception to do with "pest control", I don't know

The problem is that there are two documents: the Wildlife Act 1976 and the Wildlife (Amendment) of 2000. There isn't one document, you have to read your relevant section in the first and then comb the Amendment Act to filter in changes. Of course the language style and all the subsection this, part of the first that, notwithstanding exceptions as in subsections x y z... makes it a bit tiresome.
That's why lawyers are so rich!

Anyway, everything wild is protected in the first instance and then there's a whole shebang of complicated exceptions.
There are obviously birds that you can hunt to eat (game) and probably pest-type exceptions, then there are exceptions to do with what land it's on (and what birds). If I have a magpie in a cage in my garden and traps out then I am committing a crime, of that I'm fairly sure.
Also the possession or supply of traps is illegal, with exceptions x y z

RareVintage

Subsection 31.—
(1) It shall be an offence for any person to sell, purchase or have in his possession a live perching bird to which this section applies other than a close-ringed specimen bred in captivity.
(2) This section applies to any live perching bird (order Passeriformes) of a species which occurs in a wild state in the State

Subsection 34.—
(1) Notwithstanding anything contained in this Act apart from this section but subject to section 42, a person shall not—
( b ) affix place or set—
(i) any trap, snare or net for killing or taking a wild bird or a wild mammal
(5) Any person who contravenes subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of an offence.

T-Square

RareVintage wrote: »

Sadly the risk of hostile or violent confrontation can't be ruled out and he'd know it was me if I get the guards involved.

Grow a pair :rolleyes:

Call the cops, or
hop over the wall and trash the cages

and to the rest of you, stop quoting legislation, like little old women,
and do something. :rolleyes:

Judgement Day

T-Square wrote: »

Grow a pair :rolleyes:

Call the cops, or
hop over the wall and trash the cages

and to the rest of you, stop quoting legislation, like little old women,
and do something. :rolleyes:

This is very easy to say but having had the misfortune to live briefly beside 'the neighbours from hell' I would not risk a major confrontation with someone like this - especially if you have a family.

Trapping wildbirds such as finches is illegal but you need to find someway of reporting him to the ISPCA http://www.ispca.ie/ without leading the finger of suspicion to yourself. Good luck.

RareVintage

T-Square, Judgement Day

Thanks for your comments... yeah, "grow a pair"... well I'm just not that sort of guy, I don't lash out. Even though I'm f**king so angry about this - as I type the lure cage and traps are out and the poor bird is singing away - but... I'm old enough, have lived in a lot of different places, I've met or had encounters with a lot of different kinds of people, that I have to rein in my anger.

Why? Well, the long talk in my kitchen with the NP & WS Ranger was like the sound advice of a Cornerman to a boxer. "Oh yes, I could have the guards out here with a warrant tomorrow, the guy will be hauled off, all his kit confiscated, his house searched, and then .... he comes home a couple of hours later, and... ??"
You see, given the physical proximity here and a few other factors, I just know he won't take long to put 2 + 2 together.

I've thought it through as clearly as I can and I've decided that, as things stand, it would be unwise of me to 'know better' than the Ranger's advice and take the decision to escalate the situation in this particular case and in my particular situation.

As I posted upthread I am working on a cunning plan (brains not brawn, see), it'll take a week or so and I'll keep you posted.
Thanks though, I've been feeling the need to share my outrage as this is such a frustrating situation.

Half-cocked

I was talking to a wildlife ranger last year who regularly removes wild bird traps from hedgerows frequented by finches. He told me there is actualy an illegal wild bird market in Dublin city centre but he has been unable to get the Gardai to arrange a raid. The only good news he had on the subject was that it is a dying trade with only a few old diehards really involved anymore. The only people allowed catch wild birds are licensed ringers and researchers with the exception of corvids which can be trapped for pest control. Anyone else doing it is a criminal, plain and simple.

123oclock

Just looking at the posts and it is an awkward one..i was trying to think of a way to resolve without getting one from the trapper neighbour.........the best that i could come up with is

if you could manage to get the ISPCA out to your house on a bogus call (tell them the situation you are in) as in a sick wild animal like a sparrowhawk or something like that which is located at the end of your garden ... and when the ISPACA rep is there "they just happen" to see the traps next door that way the ISPCA are the ones to notice the bird traps (which you can brief them about) and they deal with the guilty instead of Rare Vintage......

All Rare Vintage has done is to notify the ISPCA of an Injured animal

jmkennedyie

Wildlife ranger in the area doing surveys... e.g. the current BirdAtlas project - requires surveying of entire countryside. Hears a distressed bird. Seems to be coming from behind house. Knocks on door looking for access to see if they can locate and help the distressed animal out the back...

If access refused and similar sound a few days later, tries again - a bit more suspiciously. Eventually with warrant/cops.

Nothing to do with RareVintage.

RareVintage

123 & JM

Those are two really good ideas... I'll be back in touch with the NP & WS ranger next week, see what he thinks.
When the ranger was here he thought that given as it looks small scale and on the amateur side that maybe a warning from him would suffice to get him to desist - he'd have to voluntarily surrender the traps and the caged bird.
I have a variant of both of your ideas (the ranger/ispca doesn't call to my house but one adjoining to the rear).

Hopefully something will happen soon. Meanwhile the ranger is 'making enquiries' - the guy is only recently moved in so there might be some 'previous' and/or contacts in which case things would be different. I'm hoping for a SWAT team led by Commander Finch

meteora

RE larson traps..its legal to trap magpies as they are considered a pest species along with pigeons,crows,rooks etc etc as half cocked said.

seanybiker

Op what is the point in getting feed and attracting more to your garden when your right beside a fella who is trying to lure them. You will only be making it easier for him.
what I picked up from your last post is that your hoping to get your man caught but make it look like it was someone else who got him in trouble because you are scared of retaliation. How do you think the other people will feel if this chap does turn out a bit mad and decider to take it out on them? Think things through properly before you plan on coming a unknown hero of birds

Judgement Day

meteora wrote: »

RE larson traps..its legal to trap magpies as they are considered a pest species along with pigeons,crows,rooks etc etc as half cocked said.

Just to be pedantic, magpies and rooks are members of the crow family. Incidentally rooks were once a popular choice of pie filling. Not sure I 'd fancy one made from our local birds as they are very much urban scavengers. This recipe from Mrs. Beeton's 1936 Every-Day Cookery.:)

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Firstly OP: For goodness sake make a call and report it. NPWS staff are used to such "neighbourly" problems and know how to handle this type of call. It seems from the photos that this is at least 2 gardens away with other neighbours about.

It's really no use getting on here to raise the issue if you'll not actually get the proper authorities involved and help stop it.

Seanybiker is right. Why attract birds to the area with seed, only for the lure bird to catch their attention and then...?

RareVintage

Seanybiker
You're right about me putting out the Nyjer seed, I won't be doing that until his activity has stopped, one way or another.

I'm not scared of him at all, that's not the issue. It's a matter of avoiding, if possible, living a few feet away from a potentially hostile household. I just don't want that sort of cr*p in my life.

I'm not interested in being any kind of hero of birds, I ate a duck recently! This guy's criminal activity is right in my face. It's also the kind of criminal activity that I find upsetting. It's criminal and it's cruel.
I want it stopped, that's all.
Given all the singing from the caged goldfinch, and that I work from home a lot at a computer from where I look directly at his shed and the caged bird...
Now it sounds like I'm having a go at you, I don't mean to... see how mad this is making me?! I can hear the bird right now.

Anyway, your point about 'thinking before acting' is spot on, that was the advice from the ranger as well.
That is the advice for anyone who sees this kind of criminal activity.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

RareVintage wrote: »

If you see the like going on (and there's no risk to your anonymity) then report it in the first instance to the National Parks & Wildlife Services. A Ranger called to my house and was very sympathetic and gave me sound advice.
I have to live with the sound of the "lure" bird singing in despair all day.
It makes me MAD!!

Just for clarity I take it you intend "and there's no risk to your anonymity" to mean that you will certainly not be named rather than advising you report such crimes only if you can have your anonymity protected. Of course your anonymity is protected by the NWPS.

I'm totally confused. You reported it and it is still going on? What NPWS Officer would just call and give you advice on keeping up a front with your neighbours? Get on to the Ranger again, it's his job to do something about this, not yours.
Why tell others to contact NWPS if nothing will be done to stop it? It doesn't add up.
In my experience this type of situation is dealt with immediately.

Care to share the "sound advice"?

RareVintage

Srameen

I'm guessing you didn't have time to read the other comments. I made my situation as clear as I could, including the current situation as regards the NP&WS.

Judgement Day

'Why? Well, the long talk in my kitchen with the NP & WS Ranger was like the sound advice of a Cornerman to a boxer. "Oh yes, I could have the guards out here with a warrant tomorrow, the guy will be hauled off, all his kit confiscated, his house searched, and then .... he comes home a couple of hours later, and... ??' From post #15

.....like Srameen said it is the ranger's job to pursue this further not the OP. He doesn't have to await a formal complaint now that he is aware of the situation, in fact I would imagine he is obliged to act on the information.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

RareVintage wrote: »

Srameen

I'm guessing you didn't have time to read the other comments. I made my situation as clear as I could, including the current situation as regards the NP&WS.

I most certainly did read all the comments and you have not answered my points. Get back on. It now is their responsibility. I work at this I know the score. Give them a call.

You have not demonstrated any sound advice yet.
Call NPWS, spend the effort getting that Ranger off his behind and not waste energy cribbing about retaliation from a neighbour when that will not happen. HOw will the neighbour know you had anything to do with it? The NOWS staff will certainly not say " We had a complaint from a neighbour".

RareVintage

From post 19 "the ranger is making enquiries". I assume he knows his job and obligations, given the information and evidence he has.
I'm giving it a week, hopefully he'll have been back in touch with me before that's up.

Srameen.
I did take action, unlike the other neighbours who maybe have not even noticed or if they have, don't care. There is only one other house that can see into his garden, that's where the issue of anonymity comes in. I have also, in the past, lived near some unpleasant people (and their children). I think that being advised to seriously consider a risk to my peace of mind and quality of life constitutes good advice.
I'm sorry if I've been moaning, I thought like-minded people might be interested, that's all.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Look, I'll PM you on this.

stevoman

rare vintage personally i would report this and have it pursued by the guards.

i know it can be awkward with neighbours etc etc and its very easy for other people to tell you what to do, but it is the right thing to do, and i think thats the important thing here.

RareVintage

Lads, I did report it!
Anyway, there were some developments this lunchtime and things are in hand, which has made me feel a whole lot better. I'll post back when it's resolved.
There are a few bureaucratic hoops to be jumped through in the meantime.

fryup

make sure you park your car away from harm,

is your neighbour doing this along time?? is he irish?? is he a bit mental?

Morganna

A lot of travellers trap goldfinches to pair with canarys to breed Goldfinch mules which they sell for a good bit of money they also keep goldfinches to keep the mul;es singing with a finch note .Its awful just go to any horse fair and you will see money changing hands for goldfinches.

Dusty87

Mmmmm
http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/birds/1146688

force eleven

Dusty87 wrote: »

Mmmmm
http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/birds/1146688

That's totally illegal right?

Dusty87

After re-reading the add i saw he said *must* be cage bred.
But AFAIK you need a special licence to sell or buy any protected species.

Dusty87

TV3 now, has something about urban bird trapping on the animal A+E programme

RareVintage

Thanks Dusty, just watched it on the TV3 Catch Up page.
In countries like Malta and Italy it's a massive problem. Check out this clip of an Italian TV show.

Birdwatch Ireland have a petition ongoing to the Maltese government which you can sign up to here, seeking to persuade them enforce EU law.

Search warrants are "pending" in the case I reported.

Half-cocked

I remember reading that the head of the Maltese wildlife service and his family were under 24 hour police protection because the bird trappers and hunters who shoot birds of prey were threatening his life over his attempts to stop them. The man kept going, obviously a very dedicated individual.

TREVOR H

Can understand not wanting to have to have crap from next door.
Can't understand why the Ranger wont do anything!
Have reported things to the Gardai before and it was totally anonymous.
Like other posters have said, ranger in the area hearing bird in distress calls to house. Could call to several houses so it wouldnt look like you reported them.

Found a trap on waste ground near my estate a few years ago.
Smashed it to bits!
No reason to trap birds, even the so called 'vermin' species in an urban area.

Good luck with it!

OpenYourEyes

Danny1980 wrote: »

Same problem here, but in this case it's magpies. I once heard the offender sells them to the shooting range. :-(
It's a cage with a trap door that opens to the inside of the cage. Needless to say the poor creatures don't get out anymore. I had talked to the ISPCA before but they said it's not really illegal in Ireland to catch them. They are being fed alright, but it's not adequate animal housing!
But fact is, they are wild birds and belong in the wild and not in a way too tiny cage.
I don't dare to just let them out, I'd wish there was a law to back me up so the ISPCA would have a chance to intervene and at best take that bloody cage off him and burn it! The guy is related to my landlady, so I don't wanna mess with them. But I always see them from the kitchen window.
Them poor birds are hopping from one side to the other going nutts in there.
But what can I do if the ISPCA can't properly help me? Surely it isn't the job of the Garda, they would laugh at me.

Any advise? I'd feel bad to ignore it, but this issue shouldn't be ignored. It is not right at all.

Magpie are classed as vermin so it is legal, in contrast with the abovementioned trapping of songbirds which is completely illegal.
The cage (sounds like a larsen trap) has to have suitable food, water and shelter from wind/rain/sun in it. If it meets those requirements, and whoever owns it is checking it regularly enough then there's nothing you can do as far as I know.

T-Square

Danny1980 wrote: »

Same problem here, but in this case it's magpies. I once heard the offender sells them to the shooting range. :-(
It's a cage with a trap door that opens to the inside of the cage. Needless to say the poor creatures don't get out anymore. I had talked to the ISPCA before but they said it's not really illegal in Ireland to catch them. They are being fed alright, but it's not adequate animal housing!
But fact is, they are wild birds and belong in the wild and not in a way too tiny cage.
I don't dare to just let them out, I'd wish there was a law to back me up so the ISPCA would have a chance to intervene and at best take that bloody cage off him and burn it! The guy is related to my landlady, so I don't wanna mess with them. But I always see them from the kitchen window.
Them poor birds are hopping from one side to the other going nutts in there.
But what can I do if the ISPCA can't properly help me? Surely it isn't the job of the Garda, they would laugh at me.

Any advise? I'd feel bad to ignore it, but this issue shouldn't be ignored. It is not right at all.

Advise?

Yeah, grow a pair and let the bird out of the cage if you feel so strongly about it, and you can consider all of your cowardly excuses as read, e.g. no law to back me up, related to my landlady, blah blah.

Just do it!

OpenYourEyes

Danny1980 wrote: »

This man is my landlord's brother I don't fancy starting off a fight and maybe being thrown out here.

I know they are considered as "vermin" but it's a living being and should live outside in the wild. :-(

Honestly, if you release it he is quite likely to just go and get another lure bird and keep going as normal.

With that in mind, nobody here can decide for you - think about the pro's and con's of doing it vs not doing it and decide!

Marcome21

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

Magpie are classed as vermin so it is legal, in contrast with the abovementioned trapping of songbirds which is completely illegal.
The cage (sounds like a larsen trap) has to have suitable food, water and shelter from wind/rain/sun in it. If it meets those requirements, and whoever owns it is checking it regularly enough then there's nothing you can do as far as I know.

I doubt they meet those requirements. So yes, get in touch with a Wildlife Ranger Danny1980 - 1-800-405000

http://www.irishwildlifematters.ie/animals/contacts.html#GO-NPWS

OpenYourEyes

Marcome21 wrote: »

I doubt they meet those requirements. So yes, get in touch with a Wildlife Ranger Danny1980 - 1-800-405000

http://www.irishwildlifematters.ie/animals/contacts.html#GO-NPWS

The impression I got from the OP is that they probably do meet the requirements.

If you call a ranger he will either a) tell you what I've said and that there's nothing he can do, or b) will call around to the house and check it...in which case the owner and your landlord will know somebody contacted him...

kaiserjim

Send Tsquare a pm of your address he'll go all John Rambo an save them. He obviously has a fully grown pair.

Marcome21

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

The impression I got from the OP is that they probably do meet the requirements.

If you call a ranger he will either a) tell you what I've said and that there's nothing he can do, or b) will call around to the house and check it...in which case the owner and your landlord will know somebody contacted him...

Yes, but who contacted them. Could be anybody?

OpenYourEyes

Marcome21 wrote: »

Yes, but who contacted them. Could be anybody?

True, but depending on where the trap is positioned and how visible it is etc I'd imagine the poster here would be fairly high up the suspect list - although only he knows that, I'm only speculating.

I strongly suspect the ranger will go for option a) though anyway

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Magpies are covered as a vermin Corvid species. Nothing illegal is being done, I'm afraid. I have come across hooded crows in such traps and just let them out myself but you have no right to do so. Rangers cannot help you with this unfortunately.

dodderangler

Aniya Muscular Ointment wrote: »

Magpies are covered as a vermin Corvid species. Nothing illegal is being done, I'm afraid. I have come across hooded crows in such traps and just let them out myself but you have no right to do so. Rangers cannot help you with this unfortunately.

And you have no right to release them birds either! You are actually breaking the law by touching another persons property!
Them birds are being controlled as they are vermin.
These birds do more damage to crops and other wildlife eg songbirds and their nests and are being controlled mainly by gun clubs.
So these lads go out and spend money on building or buying these traps to control them from doing more damage and you just release them adding to the problem!