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urban bird trapping: more common than you might think

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24

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    #32
    RareVintage
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭RareVintage


    Lads, I did report it!
    Anyway, there were some developments this lunchtime and things are in hand, which has made me feel a whole lot better. I'll post back when it's resolved.
    There are a few bureaucratic hoops to be jumped through in the meantime.


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    #33
    fryup
    Registered Users Posts: 18,069 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    make sure you park your car away from harm,

    is your neighbour doing this along time?? is he irish?? is he a bit mental?


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    #34
    Morganna
    Registered Users Posts: 701 ✭✭✭Morganna


    A lot of travellers trap goldfinches to pair with canarys to breed Goldfinch mules which they sell for a good bit of money they also keep goldfinches to keep the mul;es singing with a finch note .Its awful just go to any horse fair and you will see money changing hands for goldfinches.


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    #35
    Dusty87
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,920 ✭✭✭Dusty87


    Mmmmm
    http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/birds/1146688


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    #36
    force eleven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,039 ✭✭✭force eleven


    Dusty87 wrote: »
    Mmmmm
    http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/birds/1146688

    That's totally illegal right?


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    #37
    Dusty87
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,920 ✭✭✭Dusty87


    After re-reading the add i saw he said *must* be cage bred.
    But AFAIK you need a special licence to sell or buy any protected species.


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    #38
    Dusty87
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,920 ✭✭✭Dusty87


    TV3 now, has something about urban bird trapping on the animal A+E programme


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    #39
    RareVintage
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭RareVintage


    Thanks Dusty, just watched it on the TV3 Catch Up page.
    In countries like Malta and Italy it's a massive problem. Check out this clip of an Italian TV show.

    Birdwatch Ireland have a petition ongoing to the Maltese government which you can sign up to here, seeking to persuade them enforce EU law.

    Search warrants are "pending" in the case I reported.


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    #40
    Half-cocked
    Registered Users Posts: 4,319 ✭✭✭Half-cocked


    I remember reading that the head of the Maltese wildlife service and his family were under 24 hour police protection because the bird trappers and hunters who shoot birds of prey were threatening his life over his attempts to stop them. The man kept going, obviously a very dedicated individual.


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    #41
    TREVOR H
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭TREVOR H


    Can understand not wanting to have to have crap from next door.
    Can't understand why the Ranger wont do anything!
    Have reported things to the Gardai before and it was totally anonymous.
    Like other posters have said, ranger in the area hearing bird in distress calls to house. Could call to several houses so it wouldnt look like you reported them.

    Found a trap on waste ground near my estate a few years ago.
    Smashed it to bits!
    No reason to trap birds, even the so called 'vermin' species in an urban area.

    Good luck with it!


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    #42
    OpenYourEyes
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    Danny1980 wrote: »
    Same problem here, but in this case it's magpies. I once heard the offender sells them to the shooting range. :-(
    It's a cage with a trap door that opens to the inside of the cage. Needless to say the poor creatures don't get out anymore. I had talked to the ISPCA before but they said it's not really illegal in Ireland to catch them. They are being fed alright, but it's not adequate animal housing!
    But fact is, they are wild birds and belong in the wild and not in a way too tiny cage.
    I don't dare to just let them out, I'd wish there was a law to back me up so the ISPCA would have a chance to intervene and at best take that bloody cage off him and burn it! The guy is related to my landlady, so I don't wanna mess with them. But I always see them from the kitchen window.
    Them poor birds are hopping from one side to the other going nutts in there.
    But what can I do if the ISPCA can't properly help me? Surely it isn't the job of the Garda, they would laugh at me.

    Any advise? I'd feel bad to ignore it, but this issue shouldn't be ignored. It is not right at all.


    Magpie are classed as vermin so it is legal, in contrast with the abovementioned trapping of songbirds which is completely illegal.
    The cage (sounds like a larsen trap) has to have suitable food, water and shelter from wind/rain/sun in it. If it meets those requirements, and whoever owns it is checking it regularly enough then there's nothing you can do as far as I know.


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    #43
    T-Square
    Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭T-Square


    Danny1980 wrote: »
    Same problem here, but in this case it's magpies. I once heard the offender sells them to the shooting range. :-(
    It's a cage with a trap door that opens to the inside of the cage. Needless to say the poor creatures don't get out anymore. I had talked to the ISPCA before but they said it's not really illegal in Ireland to catch them. They are being fed alright, but it's not adequate animal housing!
    But fact is, they are wild birds and belong in the wild and not in a way too tiny cage.
    I don't dare to just let them out, I'd wish there was a law to back me up so the ISPCA would have a chance to intervene and at best take that bloody cage off him and burn it! The guy is related to my landlady, so I don't wanna mess with them. But I always see them from the kitchen window.
    Them poor birds are hopping from one side to the other going nutts in there.
    But what can I do if the ISPCA can't properly help me? Surely it isn't the job of the Garda, they would laugh at me.

    Any advise? I'd feel bad to ignore it, but this issue shouldn't be ignored. It is not right at all.

    Advise?

    Yeah, grow a pair and let the bird out of the cage if you feel so strongly about it, and you can consider all of your cowardly excuses as read, e.g. no law to back me up, related to my landlady, blah blah.

    Just do it!


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    #44
    OpenYourEyes
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    Danny1980 wrote: »
    This man is my landlord's brother I don't fancy starting off a fight and maybe being thrown out here.

    I know they are considered as "vermin" but it's a living being and should live outside in the wild. :-(


    Honestly, if you release it he is quite likely to just go and get another lure bird and keep going as normal.

    With that in mind, nobody here can decide for you - think about the pro's and con's of doing it vs not doing it and decide!


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    #45
    Marcome21
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭Marcome21


    OpenYourEyes wrote: »
    Magpie are classed as vermin so it is legal, in contrast with the abovementioned trapping of songbirds which is completely illegal.
    The cage (sounds like a larsen trap) has to have suitable food, water and shelter from wind/rain/sun in it. If it meets those requirements, and whoever owns it is checking it regularly enough then there's nothing you can do as far as I know.

    I doubt they meet those requirements. So yes, get in touch with a Wildlife Ranger Danny1980 - 1-800-405000

    http://www.irishwildlifematters.ie/animals/contacts.html#GO-NPWS


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    #46
    OpenYourEyes
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    Marcome21 wrote: »
    I doubt they meet those requirements. So yes, get in touch with a Wildlife Ranger Danny1980 - 1-800-405000

    http://www.irishwildlifematters.ie/animals/contacts.html#GO-NPWS

    The impression I got from the OP is that they probably do meet the requirements.

    If you call a ranger he will either a) tell you what I've said and that there's nothing he can do, or b) will call around to the house and check it...in which case the owner and your landlord will know somebody contacted him...


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    #47
    kaiserjim
    Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭kaiserjim


    Send Tsquare a pm of your address he'll go all John Rambo an save them. He obviously has a fully grown pair.


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    #48
    Marcome21
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭Marcome21


    OpenYourEyes wrote: »
    The impression I got from the OP is that they probably do meet the requirements.

    If you call a ranger he will either a) tell you what I've said and that there's nothing he can do, or b) will call around to the house and check it...in which case the owner and your landlord will know somebody contacted him...

    Yes, but who contacted them. Could be anybody?


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    #49
    OpenYourEyes
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    Marcome21 wrote: »
    Yes, but who contacted them. Could be anybody?

    True, but depending on where the trap is positioned and how visible it is etc I'd imagine the poster here would be fairly high up the suspect list - although only he knows that, I'm only speculating.

    I strongly suspect the ranger will go for option a) though anyway


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    #50
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Magpies are covered as a vermin Corvid species. Nothing illegal is being done, I'm afraid. I have come across hooded crows in such traps and just let them out myself but you have no right to do so. Rangers cannot help you with this unfortunately.


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    #51
    dodderangler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,204 ✭✭✭dodderangler


    Aniya Muscular Ointment wrote: »
    Magpies are covered as a vermin Corvid species. Nothing illegal is being done, I'm afraid. I have come across hooded crows in such traps and just let them out myself but you have no right to do so. Rangers cannot help you with this unfortunately.

    And you have no right to release them birds either! You are actually breaking the law by touching another persons property!
    Them birds are being controlled as they are vermin.
    These birds do more damage to crops and other wildlife eg songbirds and their nests and are being controlled mainly by gun clubs.
    So these lads go out and spend money on building or buying these traps to control them from doing more damage and you just release them adding to the problem!


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    #52
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    dodderangler wrote: »
    And you have no right to release them birds either! You are actually breaking the law by touching another persons property!
    Them birds are being controlled as they are vermin.
    These birds do more damage to crops and other wildlife eg songbirds and their nests and are being controlled mainly by gun clubs.
    So these lads go out and spend money on building or buying these traps to control them from doing more damage and you just release them adding to the problem!

    I agree I had not right to do so, and I said that myself. That said, I did so in an area where Buzzards were breeding and were attracted to the traps. In addition these birds were left in the traps for days on end. As for the impact on songbirds; that myth has long been disproved by BTO, RSPB and others.


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    #53
    OpenYourEyes
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    Aniya Muscular Ointment wrote: »
    As for the impact on songbirds; that myth has long been disproved by BTO, RSPB and others.

    Just to elaborate on what Aniya Muscular Ointment is referring to - Magpies and other corvids (and Buzzards) have all existed alongside songbirds for thousands of years, and while they do take eggs and chicks, the fact that we still have so many songbirds proves that Magpies don't have a significant negative impact on their populations.

    The thing that does have a significant impact on songbird populations is habtiat destruction by humans, including (but not limited to) intensive agricultural practices that get rid of both nesting sites and food sources.

    Generally, the people who say that crow species and raptors are having a big impact on our songbirds are those with vested interests - A lot of it has come from people who own/manage shooting estates in the UK who try and use 'science' and a false sympathy for songbirds to ensure they can control whatever species they want!

    A small-scale example is that there are 20-30 rook nests, and regularly visiting magpies and jackdaws and the occassional sparrowhawk in my garden - and I have a great mix of species of songbird, and in good numbers too!


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    #54
    Half-cocked
    Registered Users Posts: 4,319 ✭✭✭Half-cocked


    If you want a non-human culprit that kills songbirds, look no further than the cat. Far more damage to songbird populations than the poor much maligned Magpie


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    #55
    Capercaille
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,077 ✭✭✭Capercaille


    Aniya Muscular Ointment wrote: »
    I agree I had not right to do so, and I said that myself. That said, I did so in an area where Buzzards were breeding and were attracted to the traps. In addition these birds were left in the traps for days on end. As for the impact on songbirds; that myth has long been disproved by BTO, RSPB and others.
    If the birds had been left in the Larsen trap for days on end then you did the right thing in releasing them.

    The call bird should have food and fresh water daily, shade from sun/rain and a perch. The trapped birds should be dispatched daily (minimum) and humanely. If any of these things are not done then the person shouldn't be trapping in the first place and the birds should be released/euthanised.


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    #56
    dodderangler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,204 ✭✭✭dodderangler


    Songbirds are declining
    Corvids are rapidly producing ( see where I'm going with this)
    Therefore they are doing some damage to the declining population as it is. Cats also do it and a very very small amount is done by the sparrowhawk. Yes we are responsible for the dropping in numbers but their numbers are not being helped by the ever risen population of corvids
    You have absolutely NO right to free them birds. That call bird in the trap is from a different area meaning when you released him He was more than likely mobbed and killed by the dominant group in the territory
    Sure you might aswell free all the animals in the zoo while your at it then.


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    #57
    OpenYourEyes
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    dodderangler wrote: »
    Songbirds are declining
    Corvids are rapidly producing ( see where I'm going with this)
    Therefore they are doing some damage to the declining population as it is. Cats also do it and a very very small amount is done by the sparrowhawk. Yes we are responsible for the dropping in numbers but their numbers are not being helped by the ever risen population of corvids
    You have absolutely NO right to free them birds. That call bird in the trap is from a different area meaning when you released him He was more than likely mobbed and killed by the dominant group in the territory
    Sure you might aswell free all the animals in the zoo while your at it then.

    Yeah -SOME damage - its miles behind the damage being done by destruction of nest sites, reduction of food supply, poisoning, bad weather etc etc. Basically, its not enough to justify people going around killing corvids on the basis that they're trying to help songbirds.

    If someone claims they are controlling corvids in an area to help partridge, grouse or other ground-nesting birds then they have a much more solid argument. Though unless there is also habitat management going on to conserve the ground-nesting species their argument is greatly weakened once again.

    Capercaillie outlined the grounds under which a person would be right to release a lure bird.


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    #58
    dodderangler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,204 ✭✭✭dodderangler


    OpenYourEyes wrote: »

    If someone claims they are controlling corvids in an area to help partridge, grouse or other ground-nesting birds then they have a much more solid argument. Though unless there is also habitat management going on to conserve the ground-nesting species their argument is greatly weakened once again.

    Capercaillie outlined the grounds under which a person would be right to release a lure bird.

    These Larson traps are being used to help control them for likes of pheasants and other ground nesting birds. I was simply pointing out that they do damage I songbirds
    Either way anyone who releases birds from these traps are breaking the law.


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    #59
    OpenYourEyes
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    dodderangler wrote: »
    These Larson traps are being used to help control them for likes of pheasants and other ground nesting birds. I was simply pointing out that they do damage I songbirds
    Either way anyone who releases birds from these traps are breaking the law.

    I presume they are being used to protect Pheasants etc alright, but referring to the benefit to songbirds doesn't strengthen an argument because its not based on sound science. Magpies etc are classed as vermin and do need to be controlled to protect ground nesting gamebirds - thats justification enough for the use of a Larsen trap. The songbird argument just makes it seem the trapper is grasping at straws.

    Not fully sure if its true to say releasing the birds is breaking the law - certainly if the Larsen Trap doesn't meet all of the requirements it wouldn't be.

    Maybe the guy who posted this problem originally (can't remember your username, sorry!) could have a chat with the owner of the trap to discuss why he's using it and to allay any fears that the legal requirements aren't being adhered to?


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    #60
    dodderangler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,204 ✭✭✭dodderangler


    OpenYourEyes wrote: »

    Not fully sure if its true to say releasing the birds is breaking the law - certainly if the Larsen Trap doesn't meet all of the requirements it wouldn't be.

    Its breaking the law because it is not his property to touch and pretty sure he will be trespassing in order to do it


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    #61
    OpenYourEyes
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    dodderangler wrote: »
    Its breaking the law because it is not his property to touch and pretty sure he will be trespassing in order to do it


    Not sure if the call bird would count as his property legally, and you might be right abouit the tresspassing, although unless it has been made clear to him already that he's not allowed on the land then I'm not sure if he could be done for tresspassing either. And finally, if the trapper was using the trap in an illegal manner a) that might be enough to stop the person who released it from getting in trouble, and b) the trapper probably wouldn't make an official complaint because he'd risk the legal trouble over illegally using the larsen trap.


    But ANYWAY, I said above that the poster has given us no reason to think the trap is being used illegally, and I'm sure you agree with me Dodderangler that the best thing for the OP to do would be to talk to the trapper to hear his side of things as to why the larsen trap is needed, and to maybe point out the food/water/perch/shade in the trap so the OP can be reassured that the call bird is being treated well and in compliance with the law?

    A few years ago I would have been shocked and angered at the sight of a larsen trap, but talking to someone who uses them as to why they need to use them and the way the call bird is treated well, and the birds that are trapped are dispatched quickly and humanely, has reassured me since.


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